@English Student Sometime I'd like to chat about what you've read that you've found helpful and how you chose it. – Xanne 8 hours ago
Thanks for the interest @Xanne. May I clarify that my own approach has been simply to read and read and read just for the love of reading and let my mind absorb the essence of good syntax, grammar and punctuation! I've never studied the best prose stylists with a view to writing better English but I have been reading good writers democratically (from youngsters' tales through various types of genre fiction to the great literature of the world in all langu…
9:45 AM
9:58 AM
Nice work @Xanne! You can ping me from this chatroom at a convenient time for yourself, and I am usually available during your waking hours. Of course 'chat' is often staggered over hours of real time because of the time zone differences on SE. Just treat it as a much needed comments section to discuss Literature (which is usually off topic elsewhere on ELU), I says! Your initiative in this direction is much appreciated.
Please find here @NigelJ a basic search for the best prose stylists to start off this chat section: google.co.in/…
Essential comments televant to the creation of thus chat page (copied and pasted here) Another approach to writing conceptual non-fiction is to read good stylists. In fact, I don't think there's any other way to do it. You can search for names (Google "literary stylists"); my favorite--complex sentences, astute use of punctuation--is Joan Didion: The White Album. Others have other preferences (usually less recent). – Xanne yesterday
"Another approach to writing conceptual non-fiction is to read good stylists. In fact, I don't think there's any other way to do it." __ reading quality writers with an eye to learning good style is absolutely the best way to do it @Xanne! – English Student yesterday
@English Student Sometime I'd like to chat about what you've read that you've found helpful and how you chose it. – Xanne 9 hours ago
Thanks for the interest @Xanne. May I clarify that my own approach has been simply to read and read and read just for the love of reading and let my mind absorb the essence of good syntax, grammar and punctuation! I've never studied the best prose stylists with a view to writing better English but I have been reading good writers democratically (from youngsters' tales through various types of genre fiction to the great literature of the world in all languages, translated into English) for 34 of my 38 years at the average rate of 36 novels a year -- and all of that inevitably shaped my writi…
10:15 AM
Hello @English Student, @Nigel, anyone else interesting in how people have become proficient in English through reading (and listening). Thus, not just through learning rules but through absorbing idioms, structure, etc. through reading and watching television (and, I suppose, talking to people in person).
I have read 36 novels a year on average for at least 20 years. I try to read 3 novels a month keeping a good mix between literature and popular fiction. Some literary classics are not easy reading and can take a month. Some interesting crime novels can be read in 2 days!
I am attracted by certain aspects of a writer's style which have more to do with elegant phrases, evocative word choice and the ability to draw the reader into the world of the novel. However I think a person like OP could read the best prose stylists specifically to become a better writer of layered sentences and better express his complex concepts @Xanne.
10:32 AM
Books and authors I have found difficult to read even recently because of the 'extreme high quality of prose style' include Pynchon, Proust and 'Ada or Ardor' (but not 'Pnin') by Nabokoff.
I started reading children's illustrated books at age 4 and progressed through standard children's novels to the great adventure/ science fiction classics of Jules Verne by age 12.
I then began reading crime novels, classic Westerns and 'popular bestsellers' of the 80's and 90's before quickly graduating to serious novels and literature by age 18. I would call that a graded progression up the language and content scale.
10:59 AM
"I imagine you looked up the occasional word in a dictionary but didn't try to analyze every sentence" -- Oh yes exactly @Xanne! I was lucky to be well educated in English medium schools from age 4 to 16 and never used a dictionary along with reading. I assumed the meanings of words in context and learned their meanings intuitively by observing repeated usage. And, too, I never had a critical approach to reading and assumed that an author deemed worth publishing must be a pretty good writer!
11:15 AM
I just went through the whole book and was not even trying to improve my language while reading @Xanne. It was pure love of reading and since I scored very high in school at English every year I was confident that the reading was having a real benefit on my grammar and composition. However our spoken English education was sadly rudimentary in India in those years.
Rules are just a guide to good language and should not be used to intimidate a learner. Those books by William Gibson are highly rated but something I am yet to read @Xanne. I pick my next book to read almost at random to ensure every book in my library has an equal chance of being read. Some extremely clear writing that never distracted the reader and made a book a joy to read include Larry McMurtry, Stephen King and Neal Stephenson's "Cryptonomicon."
11:34 AM
Ian McEwan (especially Atonement, but others as well) is a stylist worthy of attention, fascinating to read. I love some of Neil Stephenson's stuff --I began with "In the Beginning Was the Command Line." And I loved Julian Barnes, "The Sense of an Ending." I must confess I am a little reluctant to read Stephen King--scares me a little.
I agree with your whole assessment @Xanne. What all those good writers share is that clear language -- neither clumsy nor self-consciously pretentious -- that never calls attention to itself and allows the reader to focus on the story. I do appreciate creative use of language but some writers are so concerned with style that the content of the novel is affected and its readability suffers as a result.
We also have a site called Writers.SE @Nigel J which I am not very familiar with, but it seems more focused on writing tips for fuction than to learn how to write effective nonfiction.
In the genre field, Alan Furst's "Soldiers of the Night" series on spying in Eastern/Western Europe in World War II are classics, if you care about that era. Daniel Silva (his hero is an Israeili assassin for the Mossad and an art restorer) is also good. But there's a wide range to pick from here, @EnglishStudent. You have managed, through a lot of hard work and time, to achieve a great deal of proficiency--I just wanted to make clear how much I admire that.
11:51 AM
Thank you very much @Xanne. I do believe learning a language is the work of a lifetime and I have never been tempted to learn a foreign tongue, preferring to concentrate on more deeply understanding those I know. Luckily I have 2 native languages and 1 national language of which I am really proficient only in one, in addition to English which is the only language in which I ever read fiction or literature.
Tamil and Malayalam are my native languages. I was taught Malayalam and English in every year for 10 years at school and these are my strong languages. I can only speak but not write Tamil and I can mainly read and write and understand but not really speak Hindi which we were taught for 6 years in high school. However the spoken aspects of English and Hindi were neglected in the schools of those days and opportunity to speak them are relatively rare here.
12:06 PM
It is very useful to understand the English spoken by native speakers and I benefited a lot from Commonwealth sports broadcasting and American movies,
but actually speaking with native speakers is necessary to improve our own spoken English. I can speak grammatically correct English but it sounds stiff and doesn't come naturally. I still consider myself lucky to have 4 languages because it is said that many prople in the world know only their native language @Xanne. I am also grateful to translators for bringing the great literature of the world into our languages.
It's 5:30pm in India and somebody wants me to attend to some urgent errand, so I should like to continue this fascinating discussion later at your convenience @Xanne. Nobody tends to discuss literature on ELU and I found Literature.SE somewhat remote. So your interest is much appreciated and we can continue to post updates here pointing to the best prose stylists for both fiction and nonfiction, to help and encourage current and future readers.
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