hello

@EricTressler Am I allowed to complain about the graphic design :P

hi

sure, whatever you like

constructive criticism is better, obviously

but :| I think games should look good too

@EricTressler oh wait does it have select/flag key bindings?

yeah, me too. it's not deliberately ugly. No

I considered it

:|

I like never used the mouse to select/deselect for Hexcells

ok. I considered it, that was a tradeoff between simplicity and usability. I could add that in the next 24 hours, but it won't happen or go live tonight

Also :| No 1920x1280 and 1920x1200 resolution

@EricTressler Please do :P

But the Java window though :|

those resolutions are available if they're fullscreen. Actually, anything that's 1024x768 + and at least 4:3 looks fine, so I can add that too

@ASCII-only are you referring to the launcher, or to both (with the standard window decorations)?

@EricTressler Launcher

Also the mines left number is a bit too small IMO

Also I'd like like a big clickable "Next" in the bottom center (text would be moved to top center), but that's not really that important

That last point, I can counter -- only the first few levels have text below them. Later, there are more tiles, and I want to use the whole center of the screen from top to bottom

Fair enough

Maybe add a key binding for next level too then

Also not necessary but customizable controls would be nice

also: only level 4 and already so hard lol (also g2g for a while)

I have that, actually, but I commented out because it confused people. And of the things you've mentioned, #1 is add resolutions (absolutely trivial) and #2 is customize controls (I sort of knew I should, but am lazy)

If you get farther, please email me with feedback

Unless you catch me on here

thanks a lot :) I'll stick around for a few hours

@EricTressler Hexcells has it in launcher, and not very obvious so maybe do it like that

@EricTressler :| no music

@ASCII-only yeah; I also had keys to traverse levels before, but right now the only hotkey is escape == back button

My store page specifically says "Note: there is no in-game music"

:(

:'(

I can (well, try to) write music if you want

I can't make music. I tried. And I couldn't find a way to make the music that's available not annoying after multiple hours

Hexcells uses ambient-ish music

it really needs ambient music. I have a tracker and samples, but no skill

I think it works pretty well

<- only has musescore lol

I would like to put music in it, but I would rather have none than annoying music. That's actually the biggest failing of the game IMO, but I don't have the money to hire someone to make a soundtrack

:| Would you mind if I tried

No, be my guest, but I might not use it... also I can't pay you.

:P I don't mind

I would really like to know what you think about the difficulty after you get past the first rows

It's not like I spent way too long on Charcoal to earn money lol

#4 was actually okay after I thought of it like Hexcells

yeah, it's different for everybody when the game really gets hard

for me it's around #40

that's when I first have to pull out paint.net

D: paint.net

but that means it's probably harder than Hexcells :P

I think I used screenshots on the last 2 or 3 levels of Hexcells: Infinite, but I'm not sure if that was necessary. It might just have been caution

I've been stuck on level 6 for ages though lol

@EricTressler wait did you forget the solutions to your own puzzles >_>

@ASCII-only I designed the levels, but after level 10 I didn't lay down the mines. An algorithm did

I actually have a board generator too, but the random levels are boring compared to the ones I put in the game, so I didn't include the random generator in the finished product

@EricTressler Oh this isn't very important but: would you be able to chance the mine seed

No, unfortunately. No easy new game+

the hard levels take up to 12 hours to generate on my machine

0/10 You should improve your algorithm's performance :P

it's solving a huge system of linear inequalities, that grows exponentially. I've wondered for a while what I might do to improve it, but I don't know at this point

Fair enough

based on Hexcell's random levels, I'm guessing that guy doesn't know either (mine are about as hard as his if I restrict them to a few seconds)

Still on 6? You got the corner thing, right?

Yeah

Figured it out :P

Just had to use my brain lol

:| why are line numbers yellow

I thought it goes well with the purple

Oh it's purple?

@EricTressler You should make line numbers not grey out, like Hexcells :P

the background and the back button are shades of purple

I can't tell lol thought the background was black

it's a very dark purple.. one thing I've taken away from reading design articles is to almost never use actual black or white

@EricTressler :| why not

I guess it looks boring? I would be surprised if this page is black on white

I'll check

@EricTressler Well Hexcells has grey background, and I think they pull it off really well

I can't use grey... need contrast

But maybe not black or white, I think grayscale is fine if you do it properly though

@EricTressler They use really light grey

Yeah... I mean, I could use grey instead of purple, and the same darkness, but why?

IDK, well IMO you should make the purple lighter because it looks black to me :P

@EricTressler oh btw you should make the line highlighting more like Hexcells

Probably not exactly like Hexcells though

Right now:

@ASCII-only I went back and forth on that decision, but I'm trying not to just copy hexcells. Even if the line is arguably a better design

Hmm

Maybe colored borders?

Although no idea what to do if they overlap

maybe, but you can highlight a lot of things at once, and then that's confusing

I can't see your screenshot

@EricTressler In Hexcells I like being able to highlight a lot of things at once though

@EricTressler :| oh no why

I don't know, I just see the loading circle

Refresh maybe

oh, yeah

Well, for the time being, I suggest that highlighting everything may not be helpful :-p

but you're right, I prefer Hexcells' method there. I don't know, that's something for me to think about more

still looking?

@EricTressler No g2g for a while again

ok, I'll be here.

@EricTressler 1. Not sure if you saw, but IMO line numbers shouldn't grey out automatically IMO. 2. IMO you should keep marked cells (also revealed cells) consistent. 3. (oh no I forgot >_>)

I didn't see 2 or 3

what do you mean by 2

not put the color on them?

@EricTressler I'd say probably show a gray border (i.e. same color as unmarked cell)?

For both black cells and cells with light grey marker

Basically make it as if the normal grey was also a color

oh, that

hmm... I thought about that, and then also the total mine count stops being a total mine count (no longer makes sense) and is grayish

that breaks a couple of puzzles later that use black + grey count

O_o what?

Not important but the grey cells left count is hard to see on light background, IMO either make it a bit darker or hide cells left after a puzzle is finished? And make the cell count font larger

The mine counts are "Total count" and then "Count by color". If I treat grey like a color, then total count should probably just be the grey count

Yeah

I meant what is black + grey count

there is black in 2 puzzles

it has a grey counter, not black

I think I had a big issue but forgot >_<

@EricTressler :|

@EricTressler maybe change black to something else?

Unless it has to be black

also, why do you want to see the count when the background is light? it'll always be 0

Yeah >_> but it's weird

Either make it clearly visible or hide it completely IMO

I'll hide it all, that's a good idea

mine count can fade out as the next level arrow fades in

I don't think I'll do the grey == color thing (no offense), but I will continue to think about it. Your suggestions have all been pretty good so far. A lot of them are the issues I struggled with when I developed the UI

I really would like to know what the big issue was, though

@ASCII-only Are you still in the tutorial (1-10)?

@ASCII-only I'm going to go for the night, but I'll hang out here. You're also welcome to email me. Thank you very much for all your input.

@EricTressler 12

@EricTressler haha it's okay, I haven't found any issues in the learning curve yet though

@ASCII-only oh, cool, so you got to see the levels open up. Great

@EricTressler Open up?

I am going to fix the easiest of your issues tomorrow -- resolution + keybinding

the levels stop forcing you to play one after the other

did you go back to look at the level select screen?

Woah :O

now if you get stuck, you have choices. every level N unlocks N-1, N+1, N-10, and N+10 (the four neighbors)

O_o

That is... certainly very unusual

Blue = tutorial?

I like it. the game gets really hard, and you may decide to pass on a level for a while, especially if you screw up

no, blue == you beat it without making a mistake

Oh :|

Mistake counter pls

I am thinking of having a visual indicator that you have screwed up. I just can't decide what it should be. that's been on my list for a long time

Oh, great

The main reason I thought that might be important is that the game saves progress. So if you come back to a level after a couple of days, you might not have any idea if you're still on track for perfect or not

Yeah definitely

Also you don't mention that making a mistake makes it not blue, so a visual indicator would convey that without needing words

If you leave a level while the "Undo" banner is up, either by pressing back or closing the game, it auto-resets your progress. that's another thing I was considering, maybe it should just quietly undo for you

Yeah IMO it should quietly undo

Also hmm I think the reset button should be more obvious?

e.g. H:I has it in the exit screen

I don't remember that in H:I, but why would it be in the exit screen?

to reset profiles?

@EricTressler I mean like ESC brings up an overlay

with [idk], [Restart] and [Exit] (with the small text "Your progress will be saved" or something)

ah. right. my UI is not exactly written well, so that would be a lot more work than it should be. you really think the reset button is not noticeable?

It's like 1% of the screen >_>

I'd say a key binding would be fine as well

In a lot of games you can just press R to restart

I'm sure a lot of people would try to do that

well, i know super meat boy has that, etc; but some of these levels take a long time

I think I would be upset if I accidentally reset, so it would have to include a confirmation if I had a key

Yeah that's fine

Also :| IMO the icon needs a little work

it was a hexagon and then i noticed it was almost identical to hexcells' icon

so if not a hexagon, there aren't many options I can think of

i could make the one I have not be anti-aliased, and just be 4 cleaner squares. I don't know

Hmm maybe a square/diamond with colored border?

i think I tried doing a flagged blue tile, and I didn't like it. I could try again, but that has to be lower priority than some of the other things

Yeah definitely, I just think it reminds me of some really old program >_>

fair enough. I preferred the hexagon, but I need to keep a little distance from hexcells. at least, I would like to

I'll try a couple of other icons if I'm able to get through the other things tomorrow

Well, you could use an octagon :P

don't want my icon to look like a stop sign

I'm so bad at this lol

I think I'm getting stuck every level

well.. it's a slow game. i think you get better as you play. I noticed when I got toward the end, the earlier levels started seeming a lot easier

but yeah, there's not really much you can just breeze through. it's not just harder and harder, though, there are some intentional spikes

or intentional lulls, however you prefer to think about it

Yeah, the multiple colors makes it really different from Hexcells

that's good. that and the different tilesets are my main distinguishing features

Yes definitely :P

I'm glad I sent you a key. tomorrow is going to be pretty busy for me, but I'll see how much of this I can tackle without being sloppy

I really should get some rest. Let me know if you get any farther or notice anything else, and I will probably post some kind of update by this time tomorrow

Okay

talk to you later

Oh one last thing: To save having to use paint.NET maybe do Hexcells-style right click to grey out number, but for cells?

But that might make it too easy :P

:| what I just moved my mouse (no clicking) and uncovered a mine

Probably accidentally clicked on my touchpad

Also please make reset, go back and undo separate buttons (in the mistake dialog)

paint.net isn't for that, it's for trying out what happens if there's a mine at point X. OK

afk now, I'll read anything else when I wake up

Note: pls don't read, you need to sleep :p

Hmm I think you should have hover sounds since there's a hover animation

Also HOLY WHAT 15 is massive

Oh btw +1 for random shades

Although it's not very noticeable

Also the dot on the music note should be 1. horizontal, 2. wider, 3. shorter IMO

Maybe make it two quavers, also since it's not music at all it should be one of those speaker icon things IMO

Also since this is pretty Minesweeper-like, maybe have some way to flag something (with like a question mark maybe, or just a red (?) mark)

Also the reset button looks like it's disabled

If you want to make it obvious that it's dangerous I'd have like a red rectangle, or even red font

Idea for the highlighting: Make it different colors (not just yellow), if there's more than one then draw (not actually) line from vertices to center, which will give you triangles, shade only the triangles a zero-width line would pass through (reply to this if you have no idea what i'm saying)

Huh, it actually becomes pretty easy once you get the hang of it

Had to restart 22 so many times >_>

I'm awake again. waiting for caffeine to kick in, and then I'll get started coding. I'll be paying a little attention to this screen, but not actively watching (and notification sounds are off while I work).

:| Completely stuck on 25

@ASCII-only if you need a hint, you're welcome to post a screenshot. i'm hoping that after the game comes out, there are people who talk about the levels in the steam forum

:P I'm sure I'll I might I might possibly work it out sometime :P

you're doing fine, i had other beta testers who insisted that you need to guess as early as level 9

:| what

That's still in the tutorial :|

i had to explain that 1) I beat the game, and you definitely don't, and 2) my level generator is also a solver, and it does output a (not really human-readable) formal solution to each level

which I guess makes me sound like a jerk, in retrospect. heh

were you able to start 25?

Nope :| skipping it for now

I can probably think better if I take my mind away from it for a while :P

ok. there are some gentle hints that aren't quite spoilers, later, if you like

I'm going to get started coding, i'll check back here every hour or so

I don't think you need to :P I have to go to sleep soon

oh, alright. where do you live?

I'm on the east coast of the US, UTC-4 right now

Australia (AEST), UTC+10

ah, cool. my first international player

:P

alright, i'll go focus on work, and hopefully get a chance to talk to you later on.

'night

Goodnight