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Memor-X
Memor-X
12:37 AM
@Tonepoet before i zoomed in i was thinking this was Blake and Yang from RWBY. though their roles are reversed in terms of species since Blake is the Cat Girl and Yang is the human. but you can see Yang being more more like Beast
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
1:23 AM
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Tonepoet that's why i said before i zoomed in
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
1:44 AM
@Memor-X Hmm, made it seem like you changed your mind after the closer inspection to me though.
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Tonepoet lol, no it's more that i saw them, thought Blake and Yang and got it confirmed when i did zoom in
 
Sakamoto
Sakamoto
0
Q: How do you guys think Madara or Orochimaru would react to a girl confessing her feelings for them?

blip049I just want to get an idea of how they might react. Especially from someone who knows the characters well.

naruto
0
Q: Trying to find a manhwa l started reading but dropped earlier this year TT

KevyongIt's about delinquent highschool fighting and from the onset the MC is portrayed as mercilessly strong as he beats to a pulp, a group of gangsters just cos one of them stepped on his shoelace. The story is a flashback about how he fought his way to the top and became this tough such that he de...

culture mangaka
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
2:19 AM
 
Sakamoto
Sakamoto
0
Q: Would Asuka ever fall for Kaworu, or Vice Versa?

blip049Lets say that Shinji and Asuka switch places and instead of her being in a coma when he meets Kaworu, its Shinji in a coma and she meets Kaworu. How do you guys think they'd get along? Would Kaworu see the hurt Asuka really has and would he try to comfort her? And how would she react to this? (Iv...

naruto boruto
 
forest
forest
3:17 AM
-6
A: How do you guys think Madara or Orochimaru would react to a girl confessing her feelings for them?

cfguyhdgxzfjI think they'd shake their butt in your face! sassafrassamujiboobootuesday! Then they'd fart out a juicy wet smelly doodo herring fart! Then they'd run off and laugh at you! I'm just posting so i can be da first to answer this STUPID, YEAH BABY, S-T-U-I-PD, thats heya spill it oot! QUESTIOOOOOOOO...

Wow what a high-quality and useful answer to an amazing and thought-out question!
 
 
1 hour later…
Memor-X
Memor-X
4:45 AM
@forest the question? or the answer you posted there
 
forest
forest
I didn't post an answer. The answer was just spam which was... amusing.
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@forest oh i know you didn't post the answer, what u meant was the answer you posted the link to
it's more or less a long winded version of "FIRST!!!!1!!!!"
 
forest
forest
:^)
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
which is required because of minimum character requirement
Watamote got so gay
i accept and embrace it wholeheartedly
 
 
2 hours later…
Proxy
Proxy
6:28 AM
ohayou
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
6:55 AM
yo
 
JNat
JNat
7:46 AM
Mornin'
 
 
3 hours later…
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
10:52 AM
G'mornin' folks.
 
Dimitri mx
Dimitri mx
11:44 AM
Mornin
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Tonepoet this would be good if it wasn't for the tentacles
 
Tonepoet
Tonepoet
@Memor-X I didn't even notice those until just a few moments ago! XD
It looks like they're coming from Kyubey. I'm not sure if I should be surprised or not...
I mean we always knew he was a little slimy alien monster, but not like that. >_>
 
Dimitri mx
Dimitri mx
12:59 PM
Since when are those metrics under the title O_o
 
Andrew T.
Andrew T.
1:35 PM
37
Q: Why are the sidebar stats for a question now under the title?

TheLethalCoderVery recently, past few minutes or so?, a new build was pushed out that changed the location of a question's stats from the top of the sidebar content to underneath the title. I can't exactly put my finger on why this change feels odd. Perhaps it is because statistical information like that be...

support design sidebar
 
Sakamoto
Sakamoto
1:46 PM
0
Q: How does Machvise even hit anyone?

Anju MaakaIn the Dressrosa Arc, we see Machvise fight. His fighting style is focused around his Devil Fruit, the Ton-Ton Fruit, which allows him to change his own weight (up to a weight of 10000 tons!) with him jumping up in the air and then falling down on top of people. What I truly cannot understand is...

one-piece
 
Dimitri mx
Dimitri mx
:5114992 Seems I ain't the only one that finds the change a tad quirky.
 
Sakamoto
Sakamoto
2:26 PM
0
Q: Is there a difference between the powers of magicians who can control fire like Stiyl Magnus and esper who does like Okahara Ryouta?

PabloIn Toaru Majutsu no Index , there are magicians and espers who can control fire like Stiyl Magnus and Okahara Ryouta. Is there a difference between their powers since they belong to different classifications or can they basically do the same?

a-certain-magical-index
 
 
2 hours later…
Sakamoto
Sakamoto
4:26 PM
0
Q: What is the first harem anime or manga?

LuminousNutriaHarem anime and manga has become pretty popular since the 90s. The first harem anime I saw was Tenchi, but I think that studio might've had an earlier, similar show. I think the definition of a harem anime or manga might be a bit subjective, so I will try to be specific here. To me, a harem anim...

anime-history manga-history
0
Q: Seeking a forgotten manga

KlenkUnknown title, character names, author, etc. I remember a manga I read online years ago (2007-2012 range) that I thoroughly enjoyed, but never got to finish, and I would love to return to it but the only thing about it I remember is bits of story. First issue, the main character is having sex i...

manga-history
 
Sakamoto
Sakamoto
4:45 PM
0
Q: Is boruto still worth to watch right now?

VinceSo I just recently stopped watching boruto for a couple of months by now because of its fillets and other side stories. Can someone tell me why it is still worth watching including those fillers?

naruto boruto
 
Sakamoto
Sakamoto
5:25 PM
-1
Q: Anime about 2 friends building an aircraft

DarinaThey did it and a girl was sleeping in it for so long. This same girl was saved from falling into the sea by one of the guys. Then they both fell in it. Please tell me the name of the anime.

anime-history
 
 
3 hours later…
Hakase
Hakase
8:21 PM
@Makoto excuse me for bothering, but would you be up for a short discussion of the current happenings on SE?
2
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
9:12 PM
Can probably be summarized as:
1. SE is headed in a direction that's no longer in line with what the community wants.
2. They are not transparent about it.
3. Everybody is pissed off.
4. It's not clear if SE's direction is intentional, or just the result of a *lack* of direction and grasping at straws.
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
oh is some meta drama happening again?
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
Whatever the case is, the relationship between SE and its users has been thoroughly destroyed. Neither side trusts the other at all. And each side is accusing the other of being malicious.
@ahiijny This time it's much worse than before. Since it's more existential rather than isolated problems.
You can even see the split among the elected moderators as well.
Some are clearly siding with SE. While others are are going full-out against them.
 
Hakase
Hakase
I just wanted to get the general opinion on what you think can be done, no just limited to using the stackexchange network sites, but abstracted from the SO company as the owners of it
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase It's mostly an SO issue. I don't think the rest of SE will be affected unless then entire company shuts down or something.
 
Hakase
Hakase
I've read Shog had some complaints about how some features just never got implemented and I wonder when and if it's ever going to be enough to create a new Q&A with all these features and lessons learned
and I wanted to see if anyone else had any concrete issues
coz any time I had any issues it was usually something minor like css with the wrong site icon urls or something easily fixable client-side, I don't really have any problems with the site anymore since I don't use it
well, I do use the SO to look up code still, but anonymously
I'd love for the global SE user community to have better tools to do what we do, but idk what that would mean
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
9:22 PM
If you want to see my assessment of it. It's here. Long story short, I took a controversial position on meta and I got called out by a moderator. I chose to defend my position rather than capitulate:
 
Hakase
Hakase
in my eyes, SO the company is starting to make harsh moves towards its main goal which is money, understandable, but I never cared about the company, I only ever cared about the site's content, and therefore how good the site is for its users to do what we all agreed to do when we joined this thing
and I'm wondering if it's not time to take our efforts into our own ownership from a business gone rogue
like, what do we need the SO company for? hosting? what else?
if all its staff positions were replaced by moderators, I think it would serve the communal effort the best
but imagine actually asking a question on meta "What do we, the community, need SO for?"
gonna read your thoughts now, and I also wanna hear what Makoto thinks
and others too
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase One of the arguments that I make is that SE doesn't need its veteran users anymore. So they can piss them off as much as they want and get rid of them without consequences to its own goals. That's exactly what they're doing right now - whether intentionally or not.
 
Hakase
Hakase
I'm thinking in a more global, long term effects, like I want to google some question years later and find a cool new site, just like I once found StackExchange sites for the first time, but even better, with a much more efficient way to share knowledge and learn. I just don't know what it would look like right now, but I'm starting to see clearly how SO the business company is limiting SE the community.
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase I don't think you can put the blame entirely on the need to make money. SO's problems run deeper than that.
But the need to turn up revenue probably isn't helping the situation.
 
Hakase
Hakase
9:37 PM
I don't know or care what they want, they're a bottleneck to international efforts of unrivaled potential and it makes me a bit sad for the stunted future of humanity
it doesn't sound like creating a site with a database which deals with 99% text content is that impossibly hard
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
Like I said, the problem runs deeper than that - for SO at least.
For example, the current state of SO is scaring away many potential good users.
 
Hakase
Hakase
you mean the concept of how the Q&A site mechanics work right now?
sorry there's a lot to read I'm trying to get to all of it slowly
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
I don't usually have that strong of an opinion on meta things here on SE / SO
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase That's a contributing factor - which SE has finally admitted in their latest blog.
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
but this is one feature-request that I feel very strongly about anime.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2300/…
like, I don't know how well effective it'd actually turn out to be if implemented
but I feel like having more immediate and concise how-to guidelines could decrease a lot of the off-topic questions, and could help prevent downvotes or closed questions etc. from turning off possible new users
 
Hakase
Hakase
9:42 PM
@ahiijny I think it's a good idea, but just that yellow sidebar plaque is not going to be noticeable enough, in 2019 I'd recommend showing an animated landing page like the one you see when you first ask a question from a new account
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
no animated landing page
animated = ads
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@ahiijny The site has already done a lot to address that. But when it comes to a true help vampire, nothing you put in front of them will work - because they won't even read it.
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
— my subconscious
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
Their goal is to post a question and get an answer. They don't care about the site rules or anything. They just want an answer. Anything you put in front of them is just a barrier which they will swipe away as quickly as possible.
 
Hakase
Hakase
unless they can't coz it's blocked by 6 "I understand" checkboxes on that landing page and if you screw up coz you didn't actually read, that's on you
I guess I've become like that after years of using the site :p
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
9:45 PM
Once you piss off enough of these "help vampires" they start shit-talking about the site externally - which contributes to the negative perception and drives away people.
 
Hakase
Hakase
but yea, up front, our best effort and best examples of acceptable content. if it's not understood, bear the consequences of down/close votes, it's not such a scary punishment if you think about it
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
"true help vampire" I don't really like that term
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase And if you put too many barriers, you start driving away legitimate users because they don't want to be treated like a spammer when they first join.
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
idk maybe I'm naive, because I don't really have that much experience with the moderation side of these sites
 
Hakase
Hakase
@Mysticial well, I don't know about the strength of that effect, so I can't weigh in
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
9:46 PM
@ahiijny Yeah, you probably haven't seen enough of them.
 
Hakase
Hakase
moderation is harsh on SO
I stayed here mainly coz it was cool in that regard
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
but I feel like most of the questions that get downvoted/closed here at least are because the new user misunderstood what topics are acceptable questions
 
Hakase
Hakase
not much to get anxious about, and still, somehow after a couple years it was enough to drive me away
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase That's the difference. People on these secondary SE sites are here because they want to be here.
 
Hakase
Hakase
hmm
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
9:47 PM
A large portion of the people on SO don't want to be there. They just want their goddamn question answered and out.
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
which would be preventable with more clear upfront guidelines
I'll admit, I have noticed that there tends to be a low retention rate with these new users
 
Hakase
Hakase
@Mysticial I only envisioned a barrier to entry when someone wants to ask a question, not answer
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
e.g. most of the time when I check the user profile of one of these new users, they wouldn't have logged in anytime after they originally asked that question
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
SE's current direction is basically to welcome these "help vampires" and basically tutor them. And of course there's backlash from the community which built the site around strict quality standards.
 
Hakase
Hakase
coz yea I guess we don't hate bad answers as much as bad questions
(or do we?)
idk how it is on SO, but I think here bad answers were never a problem as much as ID questions
@ahiijny well, I mean it's a Q&A site, they asked their Q and received their A, why stay longer
especially since on any given topic eventually there are enough questions and answers
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
9:51 PM
well most the cases I was talking about was they asked their Q, the Q was downvoted and closed, sometimes someone will leave a comment
I feel like most of the time these new users don't even see the comment because most of the time they don't respond
 
Makoto
Makoto
@Hakase I'm at work but I can pop in for a mild chat if you'd like
 
Hakase
Hakase
this is it, you're here
 
Makoto
Makoto
I'll catch up here for a bit
 
Hakase
Hakase
I'm gonna make myself a cup of chinese red and a slice of cake in the meantime…
 
Makoto
Makoto
Yeah, get comfortable, I've got a lot of typin' to do :D
 
Hakase
Hakase
9:55 PM
(I got so much tea man, the tea store closed and I helped lol)
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Makoto There's quite literally infinite detail we can go into on this topic.
It's such a shit-show that there's literally shit on the walls.
 
Hakase
Hakase
guess I love shitshows!
does anyone know a good tea company that ships internationally?
 
Makoto
Makoto
Right - I've been stewing a bit on this and the issue is that there's no clean or good solution from either perspective. SO the company has built what is an amazing platform - amazing from an SEO stance - which is far more capable of wide reach and wide proliferation more than anything new could be.
For a time I was considering what it'd take to "buy" the freedom off of the platform, a-la MathOverflow. What I learned is that MathOverflow is its own entity and just so happens to be using the platform. Every other SE site isn't doing that.
If we were to do it it would require a gargantuan amount of energy and resources to accomplish maybe a fraction of what SO the company provides.
In my head though this is a problem which has its roots on Stack Overflow, since that's the cash cow and the site with the most significance. Like, smaller SE sites like A&M will get attention but aren't bringing in The Revenue™ to justify rocking the boat.
 
Hakase
Hakase
@Makoto which is…?
all I can think of is hosting/support and pretty slow development of new features
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Makoto Who sponsors MathOverflow?
 
Hakase
Hakase
10:04 PM
and who owns it and what are their primary interests, and are they having similar problems with their community
 
Makoto
Makoto
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase I imagine they don't have the help vampire problem since that gets dumped on Mathematics?
 
Makoto
Makoto
Effectively, "The MathOverflow Corporation".
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Makoto Good to know. I had no idea! Thanks.
 
Makoto
Makoto
@Hakase There's more to it than just hosting and support; at least in my head there's the notion of needing to respond to emergent situations, and there's also the need to eventually start making the site somewhat self-sufficient.
Making a website good on the scale of something that hundreds of thousands of people are going to use every hour isn't something that can just come out-of-pocket.
We'd have gone back to the olden days of Geocities somehow, then. :D
 
Hakase
Hakase
10:07 PM
math is just a very different topic altogether, just like anime, compared to general coding Q&A imo
 
Makoto
Makoto
No, there's an equivalent Math Stack Exchange site which, from my understanding of both MathOverflow and Mathematics SE, are different
It's the case that a corporation is leveraging the platform to make it easier to contribute to their style of Q&A and Stack Overflow the company has no real say in that
Stack Overflow is in no position to buy its own freedom, since it'd be the case that the company would forfeit its own real monetary stream.
 
Hakase
Hakase
I guess I haven't heard what the users of SO want and if it's a goal that's possible to satisfy
copy over all the content and open-source the site code to allow moderators to implement all the tools they ever wanted? would that be enough?
what do you personally think would be beneficial for the site users
 
Makoto
Makoto
I don't really know. There's a lot of tension that doesn't lend itself to any good path of actually fixing the situation.
We were effectively told that people interacting with Meta Stack Overflow have such an apprehension towards doing it that it makes communicating hard.
 
Hakase
Hakase
unrelated thought: in my opinion, all Q&A sites should be legally obliged to allow full copying of their content by other such Q&A sites in perpetuity while retaining original poster attribution to allow conservation of the global efforts to share knowledge. The way we aren't allowed to copypaste the entire content to a better (or worse) platform is major bs.
 
Makoto
Makoto
As true as that may be - and yes, MSO can be pretty jerky sometimes when it comes to discussion because of passions - that is the exact wrong way to mend a relationship
Wait - CC by SA doesn't allow us to just do that with attribution to the original source? Or am I missing something else here?
 
Hakase
Hakase
10:17 PM
idk if we can just copy everything
maybe we can, I haven't looked at the legal page since 2016
maybe I can ask about it on Meta.SE
 
Makoto
Makoto
I don't think they can prohibit it, legally, so long as you're abiding by CC-by-SA
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
lolwtf, this got flagged:
in This Is Fine, 4 hours ago, by Wipqozn
Also I laughed at this:
 
Hakase
Hakase
yea flag abuse about something relevant to us, huh
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
next two comments are Anime related. lol
@Makoto I see two potential solutions. Neither of which will be popular with current users.
 
Hakase
Hakase
there's gotta be a reason why copycat sites are not considered cool, but maybe it's coz all of them are made to steal ad views, and not the original goal of the site
@Makoto fixing the current state of affairs while we remain under SO the company's reign?
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
10:23 PM
1. Change the very fundamentals of SO to newbie-tutoring/vampire-feeding. Get rid of all the current users/experts and replace them with a new generation of experts that accept the new philosophy.
2. Split the site into basic and advanced sections with different quality standards.
 
Hakase
Hakase
I was asking hypothetically if a copy of the entire SE network emerged, with open source as a fast way to develop better user/mod tools
is there really a large enough number of benevolent tutors on SO to process all the newbie questions on a hypothetical Code Beginners site?
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase It's a tough call. Are you familiar with the "4 camps of hate" answer that I posted years ago describing SO users?
 
Hakase
Hakase
of course, but remind me :p
I read it back then and I've forgotten all of it by now
I remember a funny diagram
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
554
A: Why is Stack Overflow so negative of late?

Mysticial Why is Stack Overflow so negative of late? I hate to pile on, but I couldn't resist summarizing the problem. And I apologize ahead of time for any potentially offensive language that I might use. Basically there are 4 camps of users on Stack Overflow: The "caretakers" who want to keep the...

The key to solving the help vampire problem may simply be to let the "repwhores" feed them in an unrestricted manner.
 
Makoto
Makoto
@Hakase Oh, that. Don't think they'd allow that.
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
10:31 PM
Right now, a big part of SO's culture is to shit on repwhores because it hurts the site. But instead of shitting on them, room them with the vampires. (i.e. a beginner site)
 
Makoto
Makoto
@Mysticial Yes I wanted to think about what that'd look like - was getting tripped up on what it'd be named - but the scope is actually fairly simple. No basic programming language questions.
Like, if you want to know how to iterate over an array, you're in the wrong place
 
Hakase
Hakase
chat.stackexchange.com/… yea I've been here most of the times it was mentioned, how could I forget :p
 
Makoto
Makoto
If you needed to know how to get your three SPIs to communicate with each other without them stepping on one another, that'd likely be in-scope
 
Hakase
Hakase
@Makoto mm yes, but I wonder if a site like that appeared one day, how would they "not allow" it exactly, hmm
 
Makoto
Makoto
@Hakase To this I don't think there's any "fix". This isn't something that we consumers can fix or address; this is cultural at this point
If we're talking about employees not liking interacting with us, then we're already screwed.
 
Hakase
Hakase
10:35 PM
I think with the recent change allowing answer edits to closed questions is relieving the hate of group 3 towards 1
idk if that's enough but it's one good step
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase What? You could always edit an answer to a closed question.
As long as you had the rep and it isn't locked.
 
Hakase
Hakase
suggested edits were recently allowed, I think
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
Suggested edits were there from near the very beginning of SO? Certainly before I joined - which was 2011.
 
Hakase
Hakase
ok let me find the link...
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
*sees @Hakase. scrolls up to find how where the hell he's been all this time*
 
Makoto
Makoto
10:37 PM
There was an issue with locked posts and suggested edits
44
Q: Locked post says contributors should edit, but suggesting edits is disabled for both the question and its answers

bburhansText editor to open big (giant, huge, large) text files is locked: The linked help page says locking prevents editing and contradicts the above banner, but I'm not sure if the banner is a template or free-text provided by that particular editor that added the lock. The revision history doesn't...

bug status-completed locked-posts
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
Oh.
 
Hakase
Hakase
July 2019

2019-07-25: Users can now suggest edits to answers to locked questions.
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
But locked posts are rare enough that it's probably negligible from a community-wide standpoint.
 
Hakase
Hakase
@Memor-X away from drama, and look who's back
(me)
(coz I love drama)
it's like a drug addiction, hard to kick
but also I like starting shit like "what if we make a better thing", and sometimes it works and then I just enjoy the new better thing, and everyone is happy
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Hakase yeh just that some people were getting worried because last we heard from you you was taking a break, which isn't out of the norm but this time it lasted a lot longer
 
Hakase
Hakase
10:40 PM
consider it a mental health break and also a break from sharing my every thought coz I was kinda done with that for a long while after an even longer while of doing it
you know, it's beneficial often, but over time the ratio of positive to negative results changes
I'm pretty resilient but I too have limits :p
had to replenish that mental hp
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
fair enough
and at least when you got back you came to the new design
not like "i've been gone for a year and WHY THE HELL ARE WE STILL IN THE BETA DESIGN!"
 
Hakase
Hakase
yeaaaa… I saw the previous disaster
May 16 at 19:51, by Taisho
user image
honestly beta was pretty good all in all
and I've already talked about it enough, but who thought increasing reputation threshold to take away privileges was a good idea on a site with practically no chance of regaining them in a sane amount of time
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Hakase oh so that was you. and now i understand that post
 
Hakase
Hakase
sometimes it takes time to appreciate true art :p
so yea, do you have any specific issues with how SE sites are being run?
anything you'd like to see change in a few months rather than years or never?
@Makoto oh wow that actually just happened 3 hours ago huh
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Hakase probably more mod tools for Chat so that first point of resolution for flags are dealt within the room also fixing the Twitter Onebox so it works again
 
Makoto
Makoto
10:48 PM
It was a very recent change.
Not sure why it took priority now, tbh - probably because of volume.
 
Hakase
Hakase
I thought everybody knew about it by now lol
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
>Twitter Onebox
yes please
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Makoto Probably because it was easy to fix and most importantly, it wasn't controversial.
 
Hakase
Hakase
did it break?
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Hakase yes
most likely because Twitter changed something
 
Hakase
Hakase
10:49 PM
I thought it always worked but firefox has its privacy settings so high it breaks it for me
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
you can see it in This is Fine where we now have to make links for tweets like schmucks
 
Hakase
Hakase
we could just scrape it and post contents without having to contact twitter api to get the post every time, but yea if only we had such a capability :p
can't we use one of the greasemonkey scripts from the BetterSO suite?
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Hakase Ave fixed it on her end, not sure if it was for Pork Chat or not
 
Hakase
Hakase
I thought Ave moved to discord
where's Tosh these days
Darjeeling just disappeared with a bang during welcoming days iirc
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Hakase i see him on Discord
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
10:52 PM
there's a discord?
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@ahiijny well it's not an official one. but some of the regulars here are on there
 
Hakase
Hakase
between SO and its users, yes :p
it's a refugee unofficial room
idk about the vibe on there, I'm not a discord person anyway
also it took me a while to stop the anxiety of the unread chat message counter since I dropped this chat like the drug it was
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
@Hakase well i'm on a bunch of other servers (half are yuri) so it works out. also i generally hang out in #yuri there anyway
 
Hakase
Hakase
years before I seriously got hooked on this room I had to stop using chats and skypes on my desktop, so it's a recurring addiction for me
I found that I function much better without the brain freeze anticipation of new chat messages
it might just not be healthy for me to talk to people on the internet, idk
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
I'm a bit OCD about social media feeds in that I feel stressed out if I feel like I'm missing out on anything
so I always have to keep scrolling until I reach where I left off last time
 
Hakase
Hakase
10:57 PM
I've been browsing reddit for 2-3 years now (much better than imgur), after being exclusively on imgur (what a shitshow it was, only images, no text) for 2 years
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
from my experience my Twitter feed only goes back about 7 days before it stops loading
so basically there's like a scrolling deadline of Tweets I have to read through before they scroll off the far end permanently
 
Hakase
Hakase
I'm using Reddit Enhancement Suite addon which allows me to filter subreddits I don't like and these days my "pages" of normally 25 posts have like 1-2 and sometimes 5-10 entirely empty pages in a row
it's the superior reddit experience, no cats, no memes, only things I'm not against seeing
nothing I see is something I could miss and regret really
all the best things are centralized elsewhere anyway
anime-style art is all on Pixiv
other styles are on Artstation these days
manga is… you know where to find it :p
I like to binge on sub's top posts of all time and by the time I've read 20 top posts I've basically read them all and the sub can be safely filtered away forever, there's nothing new on it I'll regret missing
 
Memor-X
Memor-X
> Join Suika Ibuki as she wreaks havoc throughout Gensokyo against the backdrop of the festival held at Hakurei Shrine.
as one does normally in Gensokyo
cc @forest @Tonepoet
 
Hakase
Hakase
11:14 PM
@Mysticial do you think creating a separate Pros.SO section for experienced users to leave everyone else on Noobs.SO would result in growth for both?
idk how it would look like… would caretakers take good questions, make them prettier and repost/rehash on Pros.SO? maybe even with attribution to original posters
that sounds like what Documentation.SO tried to do
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase I don't want to make that extrapolation. But it would solve a number of fundamental problems that exist now. There will certainly be new problems that arise that may be hard to speculate.
 
Hakase
Hakase
I can't imagine a way to make Pro and Noob posts obviously distinct on the same site
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
Docs was different. It wasn't trying to be be a new site. It was just sorta misplaced.
 
Hakase
Hakase
is there any such example out there out of all Q&A sites that tried something like this?
quora or something, idk any other sites >.>
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
A big thing right now is that:
1. Experienced users/experts are tired of seeing the same shit/basic questions over and over again on SO. They want nothing to do with the vampires. I'm admittedly part of this group. Call us elitists if you want, but we really don't need to see the same floating-point round-off question 5 times a day.
2. Newbies, vampires, and beginner programmers get alienated when the experienced users take out their frustration on them.
Point is, the two sides aren't gonna get along no matter how hard you try to put them together.
And you don't need experts to answer newbie questions.
Anyone with the knowledge will do.
 
Hakase
Hakase
11:20 PM
so divide the two groups
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase MathOverflow and Math.SE seems to handle it well. But that might change now that I've learned that MathOverflow is a separate entity.
@Hakase One of the ideas I've floated around isn't a hard site split, but rather a soft split.
Because there will be lots of grey area. Questions are gonna get misplaced. And things will need to migrate.
 
Hakase
Hakase
@Mysticial lol what, are you gonna ruin the balance now that you've got the knowledge? :p
yea I don't think migration between technically different sites would be a good idea
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase No. I've noticed for a while that MathOverflow and Math.SE have coexisted reasonably well serving "beginner" and "experts". But I didn't realize that MathOverflow was a separate entity.
So what worked for those two sites, may not work for SO.
in Room for Martijn Pieters and Mysticial on Stack Overflow Chat, Jul 18 at 2:14, by Mysticial
I've actually been wondering whether something more of a "soft-split" would work. SO remains one site. But you limit the visiblity between the different types of users and questions. IOW, hide all the newbie questions from the experts who don't want to see them. Questions that get miscategorized can be correct based on voting or some other mechanism.
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
loose analogy, but there's the Draft namespace and the Articles for Creation process on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_creation
 
Hakase
Hakase
I think it could be an opt-in for higher reputation users to "only see non-trivial questions" based on special new votes buttons which say "trivial / non-trivial" in addition to standard up/downvotes
noob users could vote "non-trivial" and it would remove these questions from their sight and into Pros'
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
11:23 PM
The problem with a soft-split is that it doesn't solve the perception problem that SO has already dug itself into a hole with.
A hard split will allow for a rebranding to erase the old perceptions.
IOW, there's no way in hell I'm flying on a 737 Max even if they fix it.
 
Hakase
Hakase
site design css could change based on the existence of a non-trivial tag, no need to change domains :p
I suppose you're right
a full split and rebranding could solve some problems while technically retaining existing user base starting everyone in Noobs.SO and only high rep users invited into Pros by default
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
So maybe they need some combination of both.
Create a new site with a new branding.
 
Hakase
Hakase
yea and maybe it doesn't have to be them :p
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
Share the database with the old site. But then enforce all the soft-split restrictions that I mentioned above.
 
Hakase
Hakase
mm yea something like that >.>
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
11:27 PM
IOW, questions of each site can show up on either other's sites. But when you click through them, the layout changes, the banner changes, the color scheme changes. And even the domain itself.
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
unrelated, but that reminded me of an old engineering joke:

One day a bunch of professors were about to fly in an airplane when they were informed that the airplane was built by their students. All but one panicked and ran off the plane. The one professor who remained was asked, "Why didn't you panic?" And he responded, "Knowing my students, I know for a fact that this piece of shit plane won't even start"
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
And questions can freely migrate from one to the other depending on voting and other "corrections".
 
Hakase
Hakase
@ahiijny lol
yea a very close integration, like sharing the same database basically
although they all probably do, other SE sites are not that big
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
what about a sandbox area for new users?
 
Hakase
Hakase
that's gonna be the entire 90% of the current userbase but rebranded as Noobs.SO
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
11:31 PM
basically like a draft namespace
so it won't get indexed by search engines
and the veterans who don't like that stuff don't have to look at it
users who are fine with handling this kind of stuff can promote questions to the main namespace when they're deemed ready
 
Hakase
Hakase
if I vote invalid on a blue chat flag, does it reduce its count for everyone by 1 or what?
I thought it disappears for everyone after N total invalid votes from different users but I never figured it out
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
@Hakase No. But it does feed into an equation that determines whether it should be cleared or not.
The moment you vote on a flag, it disappears from your view.
 
Hakase
Hakase
@ahiijny yea, a non-indexed site section
then someone experienced might give it a good-enough-for-google
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
Moderation on the newbie site will be restricted only to spam and offensive. (i.e. malicious content only)
If someone asks a shit question that nobody can answer, just let the thing rot.
Or Roomba it.
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
would it be reputation-locked? because reputation isn't necessarily strictly proportional to familiarity with the site's policies and culture
 
Hakase
Hakase
11:37 PM
@user578031 watup fresh account user!
 
Mysticial
Mysticial
I'd consider that a detail. But you'd definitely need to give reputation for answering newbie-site questions otherwise there's no incentive to answering them.
So I'm thinking that maybe keep the rep linked between the two sites.
It would devalue rep from expert-level posts, but that's already a problem now anyways. And you really need to keep the incentive for the repwhores to keep feeding the vampires.
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
iirc with Wikipedia, new users when trying to create a new page are automatically redirected to the Create Article Wizard (which creates an article in the Draft namespace) until their account is at least 96 hours old and they have made more than 10 edits
after which they can create new pages directly
but they can still go through the Articles for Creation process if they wish
 
Hakase
Hakase
I think the problem might finally be in the voting buttons
funny, I know
without a rebranding, the issue of boring experts with dumb questions could be solved by adding trivial/nontrivial vote buttons which if it reaches +5 would allow the question to be seen by experts
kind of a rehash of what I proposed here earlier
I just don't know if the world is ready for more than 1 pair of vote buttons on a post
probably never will be under the eternal september condition the site operates
 
ahiijny
ahiijny
incidentally this was my first SO experience:
- asked a question
- after 1 months: got an upvote
- after 3 months: got another upvote and an answer that didn't really answer the question
- after 5.5 years: nothing
(i.e. nothing special)
 
Hakase
Hakase
we could make them visually different, just how close vote counters are (they're the same as my proposition, also votes, but a bit different)
hmm maybe i started and ended using SO early so I still got some answers I was relatively satisfied with
I mostly asked about non-trivial stuff though and XNA which nobody uses anymore
 

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