Maid Café (メイド喫茶)

Sakamoto

12:13 AM

0

Q: Who would win between Meliodas & Accelerator?

This is Accelerator & Meliodasenter image description here

nanatsu-no-taizai

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Besides Charizard being the fully evolved form of one of the most popular starter pokemon, and a dragon, the Charizard card has some of the highest values in the Base set. 120 health, 100 damage and a fighting type resistance. Energy Burn also allows Charizard to treat any energy card like fire type energy, and Charmander/Charmeleon have colorless attacks so it can be used in any deck.

The only caveat to Charizard is the energy discard cost, and there are combos which help to mitigate against it. You can use Venusaur to reassign Grass energy onto Charizard, or you can use double colorless energy to effectively place two energy on it at once.

In Base Set the only other card that does 100 damage is Zapdos, which has an even higher discard cost and no such combinations, and the only other card that breaks 100 H.P. is Chancy, which is a much less offensive card. Granted, those are also both basic pokemon, so they have their place.

Charizard is probably also probably rarer than the other holographic cards come to think of it.

Mysticial

12:33 AM

@Tonepoet I don't completely buy the playability aspect. The Charizard tax applies to all Charizard cards, not just the base set one. And I find it hard to believe that all the Charizards are playable. (not that I've checked)

But the base set Charizard is definitely playable. Especially with double-colorless energies.

@Tonepoet Statistically, I think it had the same poll rates as the other holos. But everybody hordes them. Personally I have 2 base set Charizards and a Base 2 one + some in the later sets. I pulled most of them out myself, and I'm not letting them go.

Tonepoet

12:48 AM

@Mysticial That's what the anecdotes seem to indicate, although I lack hard evidence to make an absolute determination. It is at least rarer than the holographic cards you got with every theme deck though.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet Theme deck cards are hard to guage since they flood the market. I'd argue that the base set Ninetales (a theme deck card IIRC) is more playable than the Charizard since it only discards one energy and it has that lure ability.

And it's a stage 1 as opposed to 2. The lure ability makes it much harder to counter.

I pulled one Charizard from each of base set and base 2. But I never kept track of how many boosters I opened. But counting up the number of rare-slots I have and how many top-loaders I have (which I obtained by buying the missing cards from the store), I estimate around 81 boosters for base set and 82 for base 2. But those would be skewed by how many theme decks I had (which I have no way to tell).

Since this was my childhood, a large number of the cards were also trades with other kids. But those were always holo for holo. So it wouldn't affect the counts in my list.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial If you're playing a fire energy heavy deck, sure, but Charizard can be splashed into decks that don't even have fire energy and deal damage. Also, although it's rare, some cards do exceed 80 H.P. Charizard will do a one hit knockout against Zapdos, unlike Ninetails.

Mysticial

True, though Ninetales would wipe the opponents bench and you'd could end up winning by prize cards alone.

Granted, I never played competitively. We were kids those days. And I was more collector than player.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial I mostly just played the Gameboy game, and even then I didn't really like Charizard. I'm just arguing the case for its appeal. I don't like discarding two energy cards too much, and I prefer defensive play anyway.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet The best deck I ever had (gen 1 era: base - gym 2) was basically stalling deck built around jungle Mr. Mime + base Alakazam.

It was easy to counter if you knew it was coming. But if you didn't, you were screwed in many cases.

Tonepoet

1:00 AM

@Mysticial Mr. Mime was a jungle card, and I liked using it too. It combines very nicely with Alakazam from Base set, and Tentacool from fossil set.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet ah yes. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who recognized the Mr. Mime + Alakazam combo.

I remember playing with different combinations of support cards like Pokemon Center to wipe all the damage. And Blaine's Vulpix to just heal it away.

The problem was getting it setup.

So I had to litter the deck with meat shields (Brock's Onix) to absorb early game damage long enough to setup. And to Pokemon Center away all the damage without losing all the energies.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Tentacool is a very useful addition to that combination because it returns itself to your hand using a pokemon power. It's basically like having a potion you can activate every turn.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet Which Tentacool?

Tonepoet

Fossil Tentacool.

Mysticial

oh wow. I actually didn't notice that back then.

It's arguably better than the Blaine's Vulpix for that purpose.

Tonepoet

1:04 AM

Another nice card to use in a stall deck from Fossil is Mr. Fuji. It's kind of like scoop up, except you shuffle all of the cards into the deck.

Mysticial

^^ That thing - my early game stall pokemon.

Tonepoet

Ah man, that looks so much better than the regular Onix, esp. considering that you didn't have any steelix cards back then.

Mysticial

Originally I put in the deck as an Alakazam damage move target + pokemon center to heal off tons of damage at once with no energy loss.

But once I started playing with it. I realized that the Bellow move made this thing an amazing early game stall card.

Tonepoet

Yeah, it looks kind of like Chansey. Maybe even better than Chansey overall.

I mean paralysis stops everything instead of just damage, and bellow is cheaper than scrunch.

Mysticial

Chansey was not an option for me because it was too rare.

And I had to go out of my way to get the Alakazams.

But since the Onix was common, I could easily throw 4 of them in the deck.

@Tonepoet hard to say. Single energy retreat.

Tonepoet

1:20 AM

@Mysticial It depends on if you're willing to sacrifice the stall card or a switch, I suppose.

Mysticial

I always just let it die.

Or I might pokemon center it instead.

Actually in that case. If armed with the pokemon center card, then the Onix is better. Single energy cost. And it stays up front to keep stalling.

Tonepoet

Then the retreat cost doesn't really matter. Anyway, part of what I liked about Mr. Fuji is that you could avoid decking yourself out with it. XD

Mysticial

It's funny coming back to this after so many years as adults. So many things we overlook as kids.

My second best deck a jungle Scyther based deck with Hitmonchans. Basically, the exact opposite - early kill.

Tonepoet

Yeah. I think if any of the competitive players really noticed Tentacool that he probably would've been banned from competitive play. I mean you can counter it by killing Tentacool, but to do that you have to draw it in as the active pokemon.

The usual way to do that would be using gust of wind, but you only have up to four gusts.

I guess that's where Ninetails comes in handy eh? XP

Mysticial

Gust of Wind and Muk were the primary counters that destroyed my stall deck.

As well as any deck that played heavy with statuses.

Then you fuck up the Mr. Mime wall. Or you kill the Alakazam.

But you'd have to do it multiple times. Because it was a stall deck. The deck was loaded with deck-refilling cards. So the dead Alakazam is gonna come back.

And there were multiple of them in the deck.

Tonepoet

1:30 AM

Well, paralysis doesn't last long enough for Mr. Mime's wall to be effected, but confusion, sleep and poison? Ow.

Granted, sleep is a little iffy.

Mysticial

I recognized that my stall deck was weak early game. The Onix was purely stall and couldn't do any damage. So there was no way to deal with threats that were building on the other side.

So I had some other early/mid-game cards in there (Hitmonchan + Promo Mewtwo) that could do some fighting.

And there were a few matches where those managed to "out-gun" an opposing deck that was status or gust-of-wind heavy.

Hitmonchan was broken for early game.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Hitmonchan and Electabuzz both. Since I had tentacool I decided to use water cards just in case I needed to put water energy on Tentacool as a last resort (Tentacool loses everything when you return him to the hand, so you wouldn't normally want to do that.)

Lapras and Horsey...

One of the nice things about Horsey is that it has no retreat cost, so you can use it to convert switch into Full Heal. XP

Mysticial

Oh haha. I overlooked electabuzz.

In my other deck. Scyther + double colorless energy + Plus Power.

You can do more than 60 damage by turn 2.

If you drew the right cards.

But that if was also the deck's downfall.

@Tonepoet I don't remember. Did you need to flip coins to retreat from status? (paralysis and sleep)

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Neither of those statuses allowed retreat. Confusion required a coin flip.

However paralysis always wore off after one turn, and sleep required a coin flip to be maintained between turns.

Sleep is kind of bad for that reason, especially on attacks which require a coin flip to determine if it takes effect in the first place.

Mysticial

One of my earliest decks was built around Haunter and Jynx. Yeah sleep was overrated. That deck sucked and I neither kept it nor kept a card list somewhere.

Tonepoet

1:47 AM

@mysticical Fossil Haunter is actually pretty good because of Transparency. That makes it so that there is a 50% chance of an attack doing nothing, in addition to its automatic sleep inducing attack. Base Haunter is pretty much worthless though.

Fossil Ghastly was also pretty unique. It had an attack which had the same effect as Energy Retrieval, without the discard cost.

They pretty much knew that the base set versions were too terrible to justify including in a deck just for Gengar. XD

Mysticial

4:05 AM

Yeah, the Fossil releases for those were much better. But I never really tried to use any of them.

Unless a pokemon has an interesting power or had some extreme stats, I never really considered it.

Tonepoet

4:21 AM

@Mysticial Heh, yeah, that's kind of how trading card games tend to work. Speaking of extreme stats. that kind of reminds me how bad the power creep has gotten. They're even making strictly better versions of old cards. XD

Mysticial

Is that from Evolutions?

nvm, you edited

Tonepoet

Let's try that again. XP

Mysticial

I wonder if it was feasible to build a stall deck around Mewtwo and recycling enough energies to stall the entire game.

Oh they weakened barrier in the reprint.

You can't use it twice in the row.

Tonepoet

Oh, they did huh? That's probably to prevent what happened with the old one.

Mysticial

I think it might actually be possible to stall 60 turns with a single Mewtwo and enough support cards.

Tonepoet

4:26 AM

Theoretically you could make a deck with just one Mewtwo card and 59 energy...

Mysticial

You need to enough to draw a basic.

Tonepoet

And take advantage of the mulligan rule to ensure you draw the Mewtwo.

Mysticial

And you need enough deck stuffing cards to make sure you don't run out of cards first.

If they weakened barrier like that, then raising the HP to 130 doesn't really compensate for it.

The old Mewtwo was better.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial That's the beauty of it though. If you don't have a basic pokemon you shuffle your hand back into the deck and draw a new one.

Mysticial

The only way to counter the old Mewtwo was to gust of wind it or status it with a trainer card like rocket Sleep!.

@Tonepoet And each time you do that, opponent draws a card - thus draining their stack first.

Tonepoet

4:31 AM

@Mysticial Actually, that's at their option and you have to show them the hand to take advantage of it. If somebody saw nothing but psychic energy they'd know what was up and elect not to do it, in all likelihood, or forfeit if they "won" the coin flip.

Mysticial

Wait, you'd have to prove to the opponent that you have no basics in order to redraw. Otherwise you can just keep doing that until you got a hand you liked.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Right. You show the opponent your hand each time you draw. It doesn't make much of a difference to the strategy though. I don't think you had any cards that could O.H.K.O. Mewtwo before you placed two psychic energy on it, and from that point on it's invincible.

Maybe you could try to put it to sleep or keep it paralyzed before it manages to use barrier.

Mysticial

Or status it with a trainer card. Were there any pokemon powers in gen1 that could do damage without getting attacked first?

Or you out-stall it with deck stuffing cards.

energy removal

Tonepoet

@Mysticial I don't think so. In fossil Gengar had a damage swap type ability and an attack that could do damage to the bench, but if you're using this strategy you won't be putting other pokemon on the bench so they can't be gusted in and back out anyway.

Mysticial

How common were energy removals in those days anyway? I used them quite a bit. Most of my decks had 4 regular energy removals.

So if everybody had energy removals...

Avnish Kabaj

4:39 AM

Oh gawd the timing

in The h Bar, 6 mins ago, by Avnish Kabaj

I grew up watching Pokemon

Tonepoet

@AvnishKabaj Who didn't? XP

Mysticial

My Mr. Mime stall deck was maxed out on Super Energy Removals because often times, that was the only thing keeping me from getting killed early game.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Energy Removal was circle rarity, which is the most common.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet I meant common in terms of usage in decks. But yes, easily accessible.

Avnish Kabaj

I think I still have a couple of super rare cards which I stole from my brothers deck

Mysticial

4:42 AM

Oh I remember now. The Promo Mewtwo + super energy removal thing actually holds up pretty well early game as half stall/half attack setup.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial I'm not sure. I didn't play the game in person. I didn't have any partners. I mostly played with this:

Mysticial

All of it was just to buy time to setup the Alakazam.

Tonepoet

I had actual cards too, but...

Mysticial

@Tonepoet ah. I played against my classmates.

Avnish Kabaj

I never played Pokemon either

But I was really good in Yu gi oh

Mysticial

4:44 AM

This thing: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mewtwo_(Wizards_Promo_3)

Combined with super energy removal. I'd basically cycle energy cards through the discard pile while completely depleting the opponent. Stalling just long enough to setup the Mr. Mime + Alakazam.

And if I needed to attack, I could.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial The Gameboy game is nice because you can eventually earn a full playset of almost every card in it, and even play against friends if you had a link cable and a friend with another copy of the game.

Mysticial

ah. I never played the GB TCG.

Tonepoet

Covers everything up through fossil and a good set of promos.

Mysticial

Just the main games.

Tonepoet

@AvnishKabaj I had a few Yugioh Gameboy games too, but those never accurately portrayed the rules of the actual card game, so I can't say much about it.

Avnish Kabaj

4:50 AM

Oh I see

Mysticial

Speaking of the video games. Those were much more complicated. And unlike the TCG, you can't just "see everything". I wasn't on the internet yet. And I didn't realize how broken Amnesia Mewtwo was until later.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Well you can see the statistics, and attack, defense and speed are pretty straightforward. The problem is you see special and think "What's that, is it even important?"

Mysticial

@Tonepoet The problem was that I was still in elementary school. My mental capability wasn't there yet. So moves with indirect effects weren't really on my radar until I got older.

Tonepoet

@AvnishKabaj Yeah, Dark Duel Stories was kind of lame because it was so greatly simplified. I wish I got Shantae instead. Granted, I think everybody wishes they got Shantae in retrospect. =\ Oh well...

@Mysticial Ah yeah. Even when you do get the hang of that, it always feels like a guessing game because they never tell you exactly how much of an effect the stats make for some reason. You just kind of have a vague sense that bigger is better, and you're not even told by how much your stats are boosted when you use a stat boosting move.

@AvnishKabaj Here's some gameplay footage of Dark Duel Stories if you're interested in seeing what it's like. The rules are somewhat different though. Some types trump others, you only had one trap slot, and there weren't many card effects.

There were also some fusion rules to make stronger monsters, but I never knew exactly how those worked while playing.

Mysticial

5:20 AM

@Tonepoet Once I started paying attention the mechanics and the math and stuff, then I started taking things much more seriously.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Earl's Pokémon Academy in Pokémon Stadium 2 really helps break down most of the obscure rules in Pokémon as of Gen. 2.

Oh, and speaking of Yu-gi-oh and Dark Duel Stories, I'm pretty sure if @Memor-X had a Yugioh Deck it'd be centered around female monsters, and most particularly Gemini Elf.

Mysticial

Stadium 2 was annoying. Never cleared it because of that rental pokemon tower thingy.

Memor-X

@Tonepoet lol. well my deck was mainly the Pegasus Starter Deck with some extras in it

in YVD i generally start with a Pegasus Deck and then add a bunch of females monsters, trying to make a yuri deck ofcause

Tonepoet

@Memor-X I'm thinking more along the lines of what theme you'd have if you were a character on one of the shows. XP

Memor-X

@Tonepoet Female Knights and faires

Tonepoet

5:28 AM

@Mysticial In order to enjoy the Stadium games, you really need a Gameboy game with a transfer pack, so you can use your own Pokémon. The rental ones are too compromised.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet I know. But there's a stage in Stadium 2 that requires you to use rentals.

It took me 9 tries to clear it in round 1. I never cleared it in round 2.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Huh? I don't remember that. Hmm...

Mysticial

But yeah. In stadium 1, when special stats were both offense and defense, I was able to clear the Prime Cup with just a self-trained Starmie and Zapdos.

Starmie is one of my all-time favorites. It's been usable through every single generation.

Not always competitively, but useful in clearing the game or battle tower.

Zapdos lost its effectiveness in gen3 when they introduced the EV system.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Recover is a great move.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet yeah. Stopped being useful for Starmie in gen3 - also due to EV system.

In gen 1+2, max-stat Starmie was pretty durable - at least enough to be worth using recover.

Since then, glass-cannon Starmie has been my favorite.

Tonepoet

5:43 AM

@Memor-X I don't remember many knightesses in Yugioh. I tried finding some and I found this though:

Now I've seen just about everything. The Dark Magician family knows no bounds. XP

Memor-X

@Tonepoet they'd be a new monster class. you know how when the protagonists encounter a new strong character they always have a new kind of monster. take Bones and his undead monsters or Pegasus and his Toon Monsters

Tonepoet

@Memor-X Ah, I see.

@Mysticial Hmm, Rain Dance, Thunder, Psychic and Surf I suppose? I know rain dance is a utility move, but it is nice because it gives thunder 100% accuracy and powers up surf at the same time.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet Psychic, Surf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam

I've thought about rain dance. But often Starmie doesn't live long enough for that to be useful. For battle tower purposes, I also had an infernape, so it didn't work there.

Memor-X

their common ability would be that when the opponent attacks i could choose who gets attack as the Knights would shield other monsters. i'd summon a Knight with high defence and the fortune ladies as my attackers. the initial turn to the battle would be my defender knight being defeated but then i would turn around and fuse my fortune ladies into Fortune Knight

Mysticial

I also run a life orb on Starmie.

Tonepoet

5:50 AM

@Mysticial Yeah, that's true. You'd probably have to use another Pokémon to set it up right before it was knocked out. Can Starmie get Swift Swim?

Mysticial

Though at some point, I switched from Starmie to Latios with the same moveset. Give up some speed and the STAB surf for some bulk and power.

I remember I wanted to test Latias + soul dew instead. But I don't think I ever got around to getting a suitable Latias.

@Tonepoet What's swift storm?

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Swim.

It's a passive ability that doubles speed in the rain.

Mysticial

oh

Gen4 was the last gen I kept up with competitively.

And it was no.

Starmie is really fast already. Though that does free up the EVs for defensive stats.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial I gave up Pokémon altogether after Gen. III. XP

Mysticial

Starmie's only real ability (in gen4) was Natural Cure. Heal all status on switch out.

Tonepoet

5:55 AM

Speed is all or nothing, and if you have high enough speed and enough attack power to O.H.K.O. then you can just wipe out all of the opposition.

Mysticial

In battle tower, that's useful for scouting and absorbing statuses. So that I'll know what to pay attention to in the 2nd and 3rd pokemon.

@Tonepoet Yeah. After gen1, I rarely played competitively with other people. So it was mostly battle tower. Battle tower pokemon aren't that fast.

So modest starmie (329) is fast enough to outrun pretty much everything.

Though I do have a timid starmie (361).

I can't believe I remember these numbers.

Sakamoto

0

Q: Anime about a boy getting chased by villain for his libido

looking for the name of an anime where main character is a delivery boy and villain is after that boy because he has tremendous libido power and villain has lost his and also villain has two daughter and one of the daughter is in contact with the main character

oregairu

Tonepoet

@Memor-X "With polymerization my Lady Luck and Knight of the Lily Treasury shall become one! Behold, Fortune Knight!"

@Mysticial Video games instill a level of memory retention that most school teachers can only dream of inspiring.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet sooo true

Maxed out Mewtwo from gen1:

415
318
278
358
406

hp/atk/def/spd/spc

Did I get it right?

Tonepoet

6:12 AM

Beats me. I didn't have many people to play pokemon with either, and we didn't know the ins and outs of the game at the time. I'd have to ask somebody or verify with a website.

Memor-X

@Tonepoet sorta but it would be more of a Ritual

> I play the Ritual Card Fortune of the Knight. with Fortune Ladies Earth, Fire, Light, Water and Wind on the field and Fortune Lady Dark in my hand, i send them to the graveyard. Now, in the name of those who gave their lives for your return to this world, Stand and Smite my Fortune Knight!

Fortune Knight's Level is equal to the total level of the Fortune Ladies i had on the field. since 4 of them had maxed their level at 12 and Fortune Lady Light was Level 1 my Fortune Knight's Level is 49 and like the ladies who gave their lives for her, she gains 100 ATK and DEF for each level she has …

Mysticial

Ho-oh and Lugia had the same stats as Mewtwo, but in different stats.

Tonepoet

@Mysticial Yeah, but I would suppose Lugia made Mewtwo obsolete rather quickly. I mean it had Aeroblast, which was probably the most powerful flying move circa gen 2 with 120 power if I recall correctly, and got a same type as base bonus.

Also, unlike Sky Attack, it didn't need to charge.

@Memor-X Oh wow. That's stronger than Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon, esp. in the def. stats.

Mysticial

@Tonepoet Yeah. Lugia was arguably better than Mewtwo in gen2. Amnesia was nerfed along with Mewtwo's special defense. Aeroblast was a physical attack. But Lugia had like the 406 (IIRC highest) special defense in gen2. So a cursing Lugia was almost impossible to kill since it upped the already high defense as well as the Aeroblast.

In gen4, Aeroblast switched to special. So now you'd calm mind the Lugia. But it wasn't that effective anymore in the light of Darkrai, Giratina, and other similar threats.

Aeroblast's PP of 5 also didn't help when like half the ubers had pressure.

But Lugia is an amazing pokemon to follow you around in HG/SS.

I never played gen3 seriously. But supposedly Suicune was almost broken. Its only weakness was grass and electric. Both of which are special types. So calm mind Suicune would beef those up and you couldn't kill it.

Memor-X

6:30 AM

@Tonepoet true but it only gets that high thanks to it's insane level

which funny enough, it's 100 lower than some of the Fortune Ladies at max level

Tonepoet

@Mysticial I'm assuming competitive play doesn't allow pokemon that have used P.P. up then?

Memor-X

i posted an answer on how the Fortune Ladies are possible the strongest cards if you can keep them alive long enough

Tonepoet

@Memor-X Oh, so they're real cards. XD

Memor-X

@Tonepoet my Knight cards aren't real but the Fortune Ladies are yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_%22Fortune_Lady%22_cards

Tonepoet

6:47 AM

Mysticial

@Tonepoet I'm pretty sure it's allowed. But it only gets you up to 8 from 5.

Which for all practical purposes, will only be 4 since all the ubers have pressure.

Gallifreyan

5:28 PM

2

^ deviantart.com/miura-n315/art/Rinoa-781686068

Sakamoto

5:47 PM

0

Q: If the rose bomb is so powerful and poisonous why didn't they airdrop a dozen on the palace and called it a day?

The coulda used the teleportation guy to drop a couple dozen of those roses and BOOM they're all dead. And even if they're not, there's poison to finish them off. That would've been so much easier than fighting them. Also It's not farfetched to assume that the hunter association has a special di...

hunter-x-hunter

Sakamoto

6:34 PM

0

Q: In the UC timeline of Gundam, are Minkovsy Particles the cause of Newtype Powers?

I ask this as TVtropes has this to say on the matter https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperRobotGenre Worth noting is that Fan Wank(endorsed officially in Gundam Officials) has explanation of the special powers of Newtypes is only the ability to attract Minovsky Particle and sense...

gundam

Sakamoto

8:55 PM

0

Q: Song used in episode 14 of 'Hinomaru Sumo' when the interview with Tennoji Shido ends?

It is playing when Hinomaru tells us how Tennoji has motivated him to be be stronger than before.

music hinomaru-sumo

Transcript for

Maid Café (メイド喫茶)