Maid Café (メイド喫茶) - 2013-02-02 (page 1 of 2)

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12:07 AM

@Krazer Well, people submit uncredited roles to IMDb when they have insider info, usually. We're a completely user-submitted information site. For live-action stuff, it's a lot easier, since you can recognize somebody in the background of a scene. It's harder to verify voice actors!

Uncredited people also often submit their own credits!

4 hours later…

4:20 AM

@Mysticial Given that you're one of the owners of this room, IMO it's your prerogative to make a separate room for administrative stuff if you think that's an issue. I don't think it is yet, but it could become a problem in the future.

@LoganM I don't think it matters right now. We're aren't at that size yet and this room isn't crowded at all. (think the C++ room on SO...)

@Mystical BTW since you're here, do you know the answers to your recent questions? In particular, the Black Lagoon one is going to be sad if it never gets answered.

@LoganM Should we be asking questions we know the answer to, but leaving them unanswered, to generate more questions & more visitors? This is my first SE trial run, so I'm not quite hip on the "procedures" here... :P

Generate more answers & more visitors*

4:36 AM

@LoganM The only one of my recent questions that I somewhat know the answer to is the TLR one.

As well as the Railgun question.

Basically Rarst is on the right lines, the coin itself doesn't carry the energy.

@Eric Primarily you should be asking questions which you want to know the answers of. Mystical and I are currently seeding the site with questions that are appealing to a demographic group that is underrepresented right now, so that if/when we do start to gain popularity, the site will be accessible for those sorts of people as well.

The Mages question I believe it is indeed to protect against the mage going rogue. But I have no evidence that is indeed the case.

See also meta.anime.stackexchange.com/questions/356/…

@Mysticial You're sort of correct about that, but there's also a lot of complicated politics going on

@LoganM Cool. Good to know. I'll keep doing what I've been doing then, unless I recall something super extra awesome from one of the series mentioned here.

Most of the plot questions that I've asked are genuine questions that I have no idea what the answers are.

4:41 AM

The TLR one I have a pretty good guess what the answer is, but no good sources for that. So it's speculation.

I knew the answers to my k-on and nanoha ones, and I was pretty sure for OreImo. The Aria and Parappa ones I don't know the answer for, but it's clear that they can both be answered just by watching each show through.

Anyway I'm just trying to gauge what the worst-case scenario is for how many permanently unanswered questions we've added to the site. I don't think it's too many, but we should at least try to keep it under control so that we don't have a really large portion of totally unanswerable questions.

For now, I actually want these unanswerable questions to bait some very high-quality speculative answers.

Ah good thinking. I think there's some danger if we get too many speculative questions to the point that people don't even look for the answers before guessing, but if it's a controlled amount and they can be speculated about intelligently then it makes the site more fun.

Yeah, right now, I don't think we have a problem with having too many low-quality speculative answers. So I think we should allow these types of questions.

It's really the only option unless we want every other question to be answered as "There isn't any information about this in the original source"

Exactly.

Initially, I tried to stick only with answerable questions. But it's become clear now that we are not going to get any sort of volume like that.

People watch the show. They get the plot.

If there's a hole somewhere, there isn't going to be an answer unless there's an authoritative one by the author.

So we open the door to speculative questions, and I think we'll have a much bigger volume of questions.

As for that railgun question, didn't you say you had an answer to give?

5:06 AM

I do, but I've been busy. Maybe I'll get to it tomorrow. But probably not. I have a paper which I have to submit next Friday, and it's not even half done. So I don't really have time to be typing up long answers. I really shouldn't even be chatting, but I have the excuse that my code is running right now.

ahahahahahaha

I'll finish the paper this weekend and send it to my advisor, so I should be a bit more free by Monday. But this weekend, other than the scheduled meeting, don't count on me being here very much.

7 hours later…

11:42 AM

@JNat We have two ads on Scifi right now. Just letting you know. :)

12:38 PM

@Alenanno nice

12:49 PM

Hey there

1:32 PM

Yo

2 hours later…

3:43 PM

Hi

Not trying to throw cold water on the discussion above, but one of the problems with underrepresented series, is the answers cannot be "promoted" through upvotes etc.
Consider this example: "How did Kakashi get his sharingan?"
Let's say someone answers: "He purchased it at a ninja shop."

Now clearly this answer would get abolished because "we" know it is a troll answer.

Now consider: How did Lucy get the key used to summon Pru? [tag:fairy-tail]
and the answer is: She got it at a magic shop.

This answer is now actually correct.

Which means the community just has to trust the answerer, which kinda goes against the SE design.

4:15 PM

@Deidara-senpai This is why we have up votes and down votes.

and you can flag obvious troll answers for the mods to look at.

@Deidara-senpai You don't vote on what you don't know if it's helpful or not.

It's sad that the answer won't have as many votes as with one of the more popular tags, but that's just how it is

Also, "She got it as a magic shop" is still not a very good answer, providing with references, elaboration and detail is required to make the answer better.

Even if I don't know much about a subject, seeing an answer with so much detail and effort put into it is rarely a troll answer.

3 hours later…

6:54 PM

Hey @looper

Came to join the session? :)

hi

Are we supposed to use plot-explanation for anything related to plot?

Or anything asking for an explanation of the plot?

@Mysticial I dunno I thought it seemed redundant

And does anyone mind if I add anime-physics to the railgun question?

Is that a tag we want to have?

@Mysticial why not use an all encompassing tag like series-mechanics instead?

7:08 PM

That tag is a bit questionable. IMO it should only to be used for explaining major plot points, but it's been used really inconsistently so far. Lots of questions that could have it don't, and some that do probably shouldn't.

@Krazer I'll add them anyway since we're not a site that has a problem with hitting the 5 tag limit. But I'll do it incrementally to avoid flooding the homepage. (not like I've already been doing that... hehe)

Sorry I was talking about plot-explanation

@Krazer That works too.

anime-physics could be interesting.

@LoganM Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too.

We want to promote a bit of the "crazy" side.

I agree that the tag could be a breeding ground of non-constructive questions.

But I don't think the problem will be as bad as it sounds.

Let's try anime-physics for now. And we'll see how it stands up as the site grows.

7:13 PM

It's actually not non-constructive. It's perfectly reasonable to ask how in-universe mechanics work, especially when they aren't possible IRL. Of course sometimes there will be unexplained things, which require speculation, but that's fine as long as it's clear when the answerer is speculating.

And while were at this railgun question, the vote is 4 for changing index and railgun to their Japanese names. Should we just make the change now - and change again later if the vote totals shift?

@Mysticial but if I'm asking about something from the manga that hasn't been animated and comparing it to the anime would I need to add a manga-physics to it?

@Krazer We definitely don't want two tags. But the term "Anime Physics" is a "standard" term?

@Krazer Just physics seems fine to me

@Mysticial Probably almost everyone who is interested in this series has voted, so I'd go ahead and change it now. I think the mods can do it without bumping the questions.

7:16 PM

@LoganM Yeah, that's a change only a mod can do.

@MadaraUchiha I'd much rather have something like in-universe-mechanics. physics I would think would be about physics in real life.

Once that's done, I'll check option 2, but I'll leave a comment saying that it may be changed if the votes shift as the site grows.

@LoganM It is an Anime and Manga site.

It's like the terminology tag, we don't use it for general terminology, we use it for anime/manga terminology.

We don't have an anime-terminology tag, do we?

So physics it is?

aye

7:18 PM

And we might as well do: anime-physics -> physics

Okay I see your point, but I still think it could be confusing.

But if that's the consensus, go with it.

@LoganM I actually agree that it could be confusing since "Anime Physics" is the proper term.

Is "Anime Physics" the acceptable term?

Even if we speak about manga?

@MadaraUchiha I dunno about manga, but "Anime Physics" is indeed the most well-recognized term.

So I'm actually leaning on using just "Anime Physics" for both Anime and Manga for now. If we have problems with it in the future, then we can change it.

@Mysticial We should ask this as a question xD

7:20 PM

We can either bring it up in the discussion in an hour, or just open a meta post about it

@Krazer ok. And call another vote as well.

I'm leaning towards the latter because it's more public.

I'll make the post.

@Mysticial Sure

In the meantime, if any of you (mods) want to go ahead and do option 2 for the index/railgun tags. Go for it.

7:23 PM

@Mysticial We'll leave it as is until we reach a verdict.

@MadaraUchiha Well what verdict other than vote counts?

@Mysticial Vote counts XD

Let's give it a day or three, don't forget community is slow

fair enough

While we're on the subject of retagging, we had a pretty strong consensus that it should be dragon-ball instead of dragonball-z, but it never got changed.

2

Q: Should we have separate tags for the Dragon Ball series?

It was pointed out in comments at Rename tag "Naruto" to "Naruto-Shippuuden" that we have separate tags for dragonball-z and dragonball-gt, and we'll probably end up with a dragonball eventually. However, in the case of Naruto, one tag naruto is encompassing the whole series. ...

discussion tags tag-synonyms

@LoganM Done, thanks for bringing it up

7:27 PM

@LoganM I think we should synonymize them into dragonball-series this way we can include any future series like Kai.

@Krazer We can still call it "dragon-ball" if it's part of the manga

@MadaraUchiha we could, but how would we deal with a question about continuity between various series in a contiguous universe like the UC-timeline Gundam series?

@Krazer dragon-ball. We don't need a tag for every specific question we can think of.

alright

I'll go ahead and add anime-physics to the railgun question for now. If the poll goes in favor of physics then we'll change it then.

I almost have enough rep to view vote-totals.

A privilege that sucks to not have since I've taken it for granted on SO and meta.SO.

7:38 PM

@Mysticial I know what you mean

I had the same problem with the AJAX edit

1

Q: Which tag should we use? [anime-physics] vs. [physics]

"Anime Physics" is the commonly accepted term for anything dealing with the physics or mechanics in the Anime/Manga universe. Option 1: anime-physics It is the standard and most commonly recognized term. The "anime" part seems redundant since this is an Anime and Manga site. The "anime" part s...

discussion retagging

I don't understand why that is in any way sensitive information that you need a sizable amount of rep for. On a low-traffic site like this you can usually figure out the vote totals anyway by viewing rep changes, but it's way more work.

@Mysticial when there's only two options, ask it like "Should we use [anime-physics] and not [physics]?", and use the up/down votes to determine, rather than having multiple wiki answers

Polls are usually not welcome in Stack Exchange.

@LoganM Jeff said that's part of the motivation for gaining rep.

@MadaraUchiha I guess in this case it works fine. But what if there are more than 2 options?

Also, I believe you need 125 rep to downvote.

@Mysticial If there are more than 2 options, each should have its own answer

But try not to present it like a poll

Less on beta sites, I think.

Nope, you're right

7:44 PM

@MadaraUchiha Does it matter? It's a meta. We do it on meta.SO as well.

That is a problem

I'd be fine with it if it were at like 150 or 200, but it's totally out of place. By 500 rep you can already retag questions and cast close votes. So you have some ability to influence the community. But you can't even see if a post is +1/-0 or +2/-1 for another 250 rep.

@LoganM I don't think it should so high either.

@LoganM Post it on [mso]

Especially for meta posts when you need to be able to see how many people agree/disagree.

@MadaraUchiha It's been done multiple times. All closed as dupe of the one that Jeff declined.

@MadaraUchiha It's common practice actually:

16

Q: What should we do with "coolest server names"

So this question... The Coolest Server Names It's horribly off topic. It's got a few votes to delete it right now because the community does not want it here (it's already been deleted once by the community). I understand that it's being kept around for its historical significance, but it's not...

discussion status-completed specific-question off-topic

7:52 PM

We'll be starting soon

Where the hell is JNat?

@MadaraUchiha Superping him~

@Krazer Does superping immediately trigger the red icon?

We still got about 6 minutes

Normal ping takes a while.

@Krazer I actually have no idea how to do that :\

7:54 PM

@MadaraUchiha There's a meta post on it.

hang on

@MadaraUchiha two @s

You also have to specify the site.

2

Q: Cannot superping Area 51 users

I need to superping a user that apparently only has an Area 51 account, but when I try to use @@xxxxx@discuss.area51.stackexchange.com I get User not found: @@xxxxx@discuss I imagine there's something wrong with the way the domain name is parsed.

bug chat moderator-abilities super-ping

:o holy crap, that's new

@jnat Get your ass over here!

@MadaraUchiha No it's not new. It's been a moderator ability for a long time.

First time I hear about it

7:55 PM

lol

Only chat mods can superping. So if you're a mod on any site, and you set the parent site correctly, then you can superping.

@@JNat@anime.stackexchange.com

haha

Did it actually work?

If it fails you should get an error.

@Mysticial I got not error

@@Someuserthatdoesn'texist@anime.stackexchange.com

You need the person's user ID. Not the name.

Neither I got in this one though

8:02 PM

I hear that it will generate an inbox notification

Well, no use doing it twice

We'll wait for a little bit longer and then begin

There you are!

sorry

Did the superping work?

got delayed

@Mysticial it did

8:08 PM

@JNat haha

Ah

I knew it was worth waiting those extra 5 minutes

Ok, let's start.

@MadaraUchiha lol

@JNat Wily again?

Lemme wrap up a few things and we'll get started

8:09 PM

First we clarify what we're covering first.

Alright then, I'll begin, then we'll discuss

@Krazer ?

We've gathered here today, for the second brainstorming session of Anime and Manga

I'd like to ask to keep chitchat to a minimum, since the conversation is bookmarked and logged.

We'll discuss the following things, in order:

@JNat We were joking that you got delayed over "some silly megaman related thing"

1. What should the phrasing of our FAQ page be

2. What should the phrasing of our /about page sections be

3. Status of the cartoon question

4. Anything else you'd like to bring up in that time.

Let's begin.

As moderators, we have control over the first section of our FAQ page. What do you think we should put there, and how should we rephrase it?

8:12 PM

@MadaraUchiha What about site promotion?

@Krazer Falls into 4.

Please continue.

The point is to have a concise paragraph that describes our site, the mentality of it, and what (and who) we find welcome here.

The current paragraph reads: Anime and Manga - Stack Exchange is for anime and manga fans.

Which isn't nearly adequate.

What do you think we should have instead?

(It usually works better if more than one of us is talking)

I was reading through this post

2

Q: What should our FAQ contain?

We should start thinking about the FAQ for the site. Some of the point I think we should agree on: What kinds of questions are good ontopic questions on this site? Where is the line drawn between ontopic and offtopic? Probably there are more, we should discuss.

but it is not what we're looking for

@MadaraUchiha lol. I guess we want to append something like "We welcome questions about ..." and some description of what's on-topic and off-topic. I'm just looking at a couple of other faq pages to see what they're doing.

8:19 PM

@LoganM I think it we should also include a short bit or link about resource requests to

And we definitely should list a few examples of good questions.

Ideally from a wide range if question types.

@Mysticial I don't know, other FAQs I've seen don't have example questions.

@MadaraUchiha I was thinking the same

hmm...

@Mysticial Example questions are quite specific and such a list needs to be kept up-to-date.

8:22 PM

on the other hand, boardgames.stackexchange.com/faq

And I tend to agree, just because these questions are good, doesn't mean the user's is bad, he might get confused about whether his question falls into the correct category.

We welcome questions about:
1. Plot in X Anime.
2. Character(s) in X Anime.
3. add more?

@MadaraUchiha Physics does have a few examples, but none of the other sites I've seen do: physics.stackexchange.com/faq

Other sites have a list describing a broad range of topics showing what the site is about

@JNat That FAQ paragraph isn't well built.

It should be small and concise, if you need to scroll for it, it's probably isn't that great.

8:24 PM

@LoganM that's because the laws of physics are constant

@MadaraUchiha ok

@Mysticial Something like that indeed, but anime -> anime and manga

I think the FAQ from SF&F looks good

Well, we also accept question about anime and manga in general

scifi.stackexchange.com/faq

8:25 PM

If we have a list of topics then it may close of room for things that are on-topic that we haven't thought of yet. Maybe we should try to be very general.

We don't want questions about:
1. What is your favorite Anime/Manga?
2. What is the best to get/see/view X?
3. Anything possibly illegal.

We need to think about that too

@Mysticial 3. Identify the name of the anime/manga that has X, Y and Z

@Veger aren't we allowing identify?

@kuwaly He's replaying to my first list. The "allowed" list.

8:26 PM

@kuwaly yes we are, it was an addition to the list of allowed questions :)

makes more sense now

For allowed:

terminology

tropes

I guess for the allowed list, we also want to have something about what sort of anime-production questions are allowed.

Science Fiction and Fantasy's looks good, very close to what we're gonna need too.

@MadaraUchiha indeed

Remember we don't want to stretch it too long

No more than 5-7 items.

8:28 PM

maybe generalize terminology/tropes/similar things into one umbrella idea

Agreed. SciFi is essentially the same as us except with a different genre.

We can pretty much just borrow (steal) that FAQ and adapt it for ourselves.

@kuwaly Historical or societal context of a work?

@Krazer I don't know if terminology would fit under that

@Krazer That's the second bullet on the SciFi FAQ.

@Mysticial I know.

8:30 PM

@Mysticial He started borrowing (stealing) already ;)

@kuwaly I think it could fall under "societal context"

Must go, good luck

When reading the SF&F faq, the allowed list is good enough for us I suppose. Or is it missing something?

(maybe rephrase a little)

I believe we can pretty much take it whole, and make small adjustments

I'd say we take SciFi's allowed list. And further more we allow questions about terminology and tropes.

8:32 PM

@Krazer I don't know if it works as written, but we are allowing questions about both the cultural impact of series and cultural origins for ideas from anime/manga. It would be questions like: anime.stackexchange.com/questions/541/…

@MadaraUchiha the second point on the off-topic part needs to be modified

This phrase is the bane of all the FAQs:

> practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face

@Mysticial I had to know if Pokemon were edible.

3

@Mysticial I don't think any of us face problems watching anime. So I don't know how we're supposed to interpret that.

@Krazer Yeah, and I happen to be able to shoot railguns and I don't know where all the power comes from.

8:34 PM

We can try and deal with that later, but for now, let's focus on the paragraph we can edit

I believe there was a meta.SO post challenging that phrase for sites like SciFi.

But anyway, are we mostly agreed upon the "allowed" list?

@MadaraUchiha I think we can start by picking each line from SF&F and seeing if they fit us, or need modifications

SciFi + a few more. I don't see anything on their list that we wouldn't want on ours.

@JNat I'll try and get their source in Markdown, so we can edit it more freely than trying to reconstruct it

@MadaraUchiha yeah

8:37 PM

@MadaraUchiha It is only a bullet list and a 'tag link', easier to recreate than to ask for... Unless you want to say hi to our neighbors :)

@Veger We'll try both

@Veger It's easy for them since they can ping each other via the Teacher's Lounge.

ok, fine by me

next is "not allowed" list?

number 2 and 3 of the SF&F faq seems applicable to me

We may want to make a brief mention of the list questions.

the others (1 & 4) not so much

8:40 PM

Hold on, let's wrap up the welcomed list

Welcome list:
1 - 5: SciFi's list
6: Questions about terminlogy
7: Questions about tropes
8: ???

We need to mention what sort of questions about the anime industry are allowed

Here's what I currently have:

@Mysticial Questions about anime/manga staff like directors, animators, writers, manga artists, and voice actors, but not how to draw, make or write anime/manga

Anime and Manga - Stack Exchange is a Q&A site for enthusiastic anime and manga fans. This includes questions about:

- Plot, character, or setting explanations
- Historical or societal context of an anime or manga
- Anime and manga identification
- Tropes, terminology and other general anime and manga related information.

8:41 PM

and the conclusions of our discussion on the lists

Anything else we'd like to add?

@MadaraUchiha Did we drop the stuff about "Franchise/series reading or viewing order" and "Behind-the-scenes and fandom information"?

something like "lists, as long as they comply to these rules (link to meta post)"

@LoganM Well, reading order isn't exactly relevant on anime/manga (is it?)

@MadaraUchiha Oh yes it is: Think Haruhi...

8:43 PM

@MadaraUchiha may be, if timelines are mixed up

Also, behind-the-scenes was declared rather off-topic

@Krazer yes, we had some of these questions and they got closed

I would think questions like anime.stackexchange.com/questions/2089/… would count for that.

@LoganM yeah

@Mysticial, @LoganM, point taken. Added.

How about the behind the scenes one?

8:45 PM

@MadaraUchiha We have a few of those already.

@MadaraUchiha aren't we going to mention that some list questions are allowed?

Most of the "Why was it done like this?" questions.

I asked one myself and I got a good answer.

@JNat No, since we're discussing on-topic vs off-topic here.

@MadaraUchiha ok

@Mysticial So... anime-production and manga-production?

8:47 PM

@MadaraUchiha Yeah

@MadaraUchiha the spirited away no-face question is a behind the scenes one I think they are on topic

@MadaraUchiha we should exclude cosplay and conference questions, I suppose

Wouldn't that open the door for questions regarding the actual creation (drawing, etc?)

I agree they can be slippery slopes without references though.

@MadaraUchiha Then explicitly add those to the not allowed list.

Alright

8:48 PM

Questions about why X author did Y are fine. Questions about how to do X Anime/Manga are not.

And that includes fan-art.

Since we've already decided that we will not allow questions on how to do doujinshi and cosplays and such.

Okay

I currently have this: Anime and Manga - Stack Exchange is a Q&A site for enthusiastic anime and manga fans. This includes questions about:

- Plot, character, or setting explanations
- Historical or societal context of an anime or manga
- [Anime and manga identification][1]
- Franchise/series reading or viewing order
- [Anime][2] and [manga][3] production
- Tropes, terminology and other general anime and manga related information.

I think this specific "No" can be wrapped up as: All the "How to" questions are not allowed.

@MadaraUchiha Looks good.

@MadaraUchiha What anime/manga staff questions?

@Krazer That falls under production.

@MadaraUchiha That looks good. I can't think of any questions we have right now which don't fall into one of those.

8:53 PM

@MadaraUchiha looks good, indeed

I'm not actually sure what the "behind the scenes" is referring to, but I don't think we have any questions that would only fall in that category anyway.

@MadaraUchiha What about legal issues with anime and manga?

@Krazer That's production.

@Krazer I suppose that falls under "not allowed"

@Krazer Questions about fansubs, piracy, etc should be explicitly in the not allowed list

8:55 PM

@Veger That's slightly different. We want to disallow questions about "where to get X"? Those are the legal slippery slopes.

@LoganM Alright, moving on to the not allowed

@MadaraUchiha questions about the japanese language usage in anime/manga

@Mysticial I would say not allowed (instead of 'slippery slopes'), they either are referring to illegal versions or are shopping lists

The SciFi list again is a good start. But we want to change the 2nd bullet since we have our own rules for "list" questions.

@Krazer Ah we should probably have that in allowed (with a link to the meta question about it)

8:58 PM

@Veger They are not allowed partially because they are legal slippery slopes. We should phrase it as "Questions about where to get/download/see X as well as anything that is a legal slippery slope is not allowed."

Lemme check how Super User phrases their policy on piracy related stuff.

They don't even mention it in their FAQ.

Nor does SciFi.

@Mysticial What If I have a question about who owns what between a manga artist and it's publisher?

@Mysticial From Arqade: gaming.stackexchange.com/faq prohibits "Piracy, and support with pirated games."

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Transcript for

Feb '132

Maid Café (メイド喫茶)

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