This Is Fine

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8:08 PM

Omicron is going to be ugly, if it's anywhere as fast as it looks right now that doesn't really leave enough time to react once the development is obvious. The only hope is that it causes more mild cases, which I really doubt right now.

Wipqozn

@MadScientist Was there some more bad news around Omicron?

Mad Scientist

@Wipqozn Not directly. But I just listened to the Christan Drosten podcast, and while much of it is speculative due to the lack of hard data, it was quite concerning. It looks pretty certain now that Omicron has a huge advantage in transmission (either fitness or immune evasion, probably both), and it's quite plausible that it isn't any less dangerous than Delta.

Wipqozn

@MadScientist Well that's great.

Mad Scientist

And for Germany in particular, we have a large gap in vaccination for the above 60 crowd, which would be extremely vulnerable if Omicron is as dangerous as we fear

Wipqozn

It really does seem like this pandemic is never going to ned.

Mad Scientist

8:14 PM

It's going to end, the main question is how many people die on the way to that.

I got my booster, my parents will be both boostered this week and my sister got her booster as well. But boosters alone can't fix this, it's just insane that people over 60 would not get vaccinated

Wipqozn

@MadScientist It's insane that anyone would choose to not get vaccinated (baring medical reasons).

Mad Scientist

@Wipqozn there's only one medical reason, and that's an allergy against a component of the vaccines. There are almost no people that can't get vaccinated (though of course there are more people where it might not work well enough)

Elva

8:39 PM

Can't you also have a bad immune system, or oveerreactive?

Or is that not the case because this vaccine doesn't inject actual virus bits

Mad Scientist

9:00 PM

@Elva well, that's pretty much the definition of allergy ;-)

Elva

9:43 PM

@MadScientist Well the latter is, the first isn't. Normal vaccines they're weakened but still alive, so if your immune system is bad/weak you can still get the disease ... and you have a weak immune system already...

Mad Scientist

9:58 PM

@Elva no you can't for this type of vaccine. That's an issue with something like an attenuated virus, the mRNA or vector vaccines are not complete viruses and are fundamentally not capable of reproducing like that

Flats

10:34 PM

@MadScientist I think it really depends on who you listen to when determining how Omicron affects people. I've been primarily hearing that it is more transmissible but less dangerous than other variants, which is obviously different that what you've heard

I wonder, what are your thoughts on those who choose not to be vaccinated for non medical reasons? Surely it would only really pose much of a danger to the unvaccinated person and not much of one to those who are vaccinated that they might expose

@MadScientist You live in germany? I hear that they are implementing many new restrictions in travel and public activity. Is that true? How do you feel about that aspect of the pandemic in general (lockdowns and such)? Here in the US the topic is so polarized and focused that we don't really ever hear much about how other countries are reacting to the measures

Mad Scientist

@Flats It's not much different from last year, a bit less than that.

The problem is that we have too many unvaccinated risk groups, which will overwhelm the hospitals unless we limit the spread of the virus.

I'm favoring mandatory vaccinations now, I had expected that this would not be necessary, but I was wrong about that

Flats

@MadScientist Unfortunately that seems to be the way that the larger cities are moving to in the US as well. The thought chills me to the bone. I'm vaccinated willingly and readily and I encourage everybody that doubts it to get it, but the idea that we could force it just gives me the willies

Mad Scientist

@Flats It's not as if someone would actually force people, it means the unvaccinated get fined

Flats

@MadScientist Then it's force based on class in that situation. Arguably even worse :/

fines or being restricted from work are seeming to be the favored methods of a pseudo-mandate here

Mad Scientist

The alternatives are letting the healthcare system collapse or drastic restrictions in freedom and movement.

ToxicFrog

10:50 PM

> the idea that we could force it just gives me the willies

...why? Like, public health mandates are nothing new, nor are vaccination requirements for travel, school, etc, and plenty of countries have mandatory vaccination for other diseases -- COVID is just too new to be on the list yet

Flats

@MadScientist Here in the US I think that if there were more sweeping bans on freedoms/movement they wouldn't last long. So many people would refuse, and plenty of state/local governments would refuse to enforce it

@ToxicFrog I think that the major problem I have with it is the seeming ineffectiveness of the vaccine to prevent infection. It seems to do fantastic at lessening or eliminating symptoms and death, but as far as infection it seems that efficacy percentages have been dropping continuously

requirements for other vaccines for travel are much more effective and established than the few we have for covid right now

Id love to see everyone get it, but I think it's setting the bar a bit high, especially for Americans lol

private institutions creating mandates I think is perfectly fine

ToxicFrog

I do not find "the vaccine, while a huge improvement over no vaccination, is still less effective than vaccines for other diseases, so why bother lol" to be a compelling argument

Especially since even if it's less than 100% effective at stopping transmission, it still reduces it, which means fewer chances for the virus to mutate into new and worse forms

Memor-X

@MadScientist yeh that's what i keep hearing, more transmissible but "not more dangerous than Delta"

ToxicFrog

We might have been able to avoid Delta and Omicron entirely if not for ratlicking plague enthusiasts refusing to get vaccinated, going out and having superspreader parties, and giving it more chances to mutate in the process.

Mad Scientist

@Memor-X I don't like what Fauci said, at least not the way it was represented in the media

If it's as serious as Delta, it's a lot more dangerous than Delta already due to the increased transmission and immune evasion

Flats

10:57 PM

@ToxicFrog I don't think that's quite fair haha. I'd love to keep chatting here but I've got to drive home. I'll be back in though to hopefully explain myself a bit

ToxicFrog

righto

Flats

(Also as an aside, I think its wild that this chatroom is a part of Arqade? What's the story behind that?)

ToxicFrog

Politics chat was taking up a lot of space in the Arqade chatroom, so this one was forked out so that people could opt in to politics and current afairs as they chose.