Zendo

Sp3000

5:00 PM

sort is false

hoe is true (type 1)

Rubio

master: hoes

Deusovi

master soft

Sp3000

hoes is false (too true, but not as obvious why)

Mike Q

Wait, how can something be too true

Sp3000

soft is false

Rubio

5:01 PM

master: hose

Mike Q

(I just read the rules a few minutes ago, so I'm not entirely familiar)

Deusovi

@MikeQ Sp's rule is... special.

Rubio

s/'s rule//

Sp3000

hose is true (type 2, not as obvious why)

Rubio

huh

that was unexpected

John Dvorak

5:01 PM

Huh...

Mike Q

@Deusovi I am confused by the logic "True --> False"

Deusovi

@MikeQ Well, we don't know exactly what that means yet. It's a hint - a different reason why the word is false.

Our theory is that the rule is "A xor B", and "A and B" would be "too true".

Rubio

there seem to be two different, but similar, criteria for "true" - and as a conjecture, matching both is "too true" and thus false

Sp3000

True (type 1):
--------------
slingshot
hooted
book +
leak
prompts
peak
wee
slate +
ate +
tea
guilt
sweat
steadfastness
silly
stale +
satiation
hearty
week
meek
reek
peek +
teak
deek +
beak +
shot
slot
scot
spot
snot
soot
swot
slow
hoe


True (type 2):
--------------
fabric
missy
tweeted
sissy
starvation
weird
arpeggiation
speak
anger +
hissy
loud +
siss
impatient
hope +
scheme
level +
arpeggio +
ration +
ascend +
journey
maintain +
clueless +
hose +


False:
------
cloth
roost *+
pizza
abacus
rubric

Mike Q

What's the + mean?

Rubio

5:05 PM

+ plussed words are not as obvious why they are true or too true

Sp3000

(disclaimer: + is subjective from me)

Mike Q

Um... well I'm more confused than usual. I think I'm just going to spectate.

Business Cat

@MikeQ Welcome to the spectators club

Rubio

you'd think any of what we just determined would have helped - but it didn't.

Business Cat

!giveup

Sid

5:12 PM

I have given up a long time back

Mithrandir

Error: Command 'giveup' not defined.

Sp3000

21 mins ago, by Rubio

maybe a good use for a T/F question now is if letter shapes are relevant

I'll throw this one in for free - typography (letter shapes, case, spacing) is irrelevant

Deusovi

Welp.

Mike Q

But not too relevant, right

Rubio

master: uncle. surrender. yield. succumb. seppuku.

John Dvorak

5:13 PM

Bwhat!

Sp3000

I believe all 5 of those are false

Rubio

no, I am pretty sure they're true. ;)

Deusovi

I can't think of anything that it could depend on. It's not only letters and position, it's not pronunciation, it's not typography...

Mike Q

Don't perform sudoku, I believe that you kenken solve it

Rubio

yeah we crossed the 5 hour mark 10 minutes back. I think I'm conceding.

Mithrandir

5:15 PM

covers ears

Deusovi

wow. yeah, sorry Sp

I have to go to class soon anyway

John Dvorak

I surrender.

Sp3000

Hint: "slate" and "stale" are both type 1 + for the exact same reason

John Dvorak

Yeech.

Deusovi

that doesn't really help much

Sp3000

5:16 PM

Well... basically the same

Okay yeah I didn't expect this to go on for so long :P

Deusovi

what about steal? least?

tales?

Sp3000

steal is too true, not as obvious why. least is too true, not as obvious why. tales is true type 2, not as obvious why. All for different reasons.

Deusovi

that is not enlightening in the slightest

Mike Q

Does the rule depend on the day of the week or lunar phase

Sp3000

fabric -> ARC
missy -> IS
slingshot -> SIGHT
tweeted -> WEE
hooted -> HOE
sissy -> IS
book -> BO + (note: OK is not SOWPODS legal)
starvation -> TRAIN
weird -> ER
arpeggiation -> REGAIN
leak -> LA
speak -> PA
prompts -> POPS
peak -> PA
wee -> WE
anger -> NE +
hissy -> IS
loud -> OD
slate -> SAE +
ate -> AE +
tea -> TA
guilt -> GIT
sweat -> SET
steadfastness -> SEDATES
siss -> IS
impatient -> MAIN
silly -> SLY
hope -> OE +
scheme -> CEE
level -> EE +
arpeggio -> REGO +
stale -> SAE +
satiation -> STAIN

Deusovi

5:20 PM

ah

this would've worked better as a puzzle on the main site because you could only use words with non-obscure things

Rubio

eff mee

Sp3000

I realised that obscure Scrabble words were going to get in the way, which is why I started sticking in +s, and having a XOR in the first place was definitely unnecessary in hindsight

I was going to give more long word examples, but at this point I didn't know whether they'd help

Deusovi

yes, the XOR made things much worse IMO

long words might've helped

(if you'd given SCHOOLED as "too true" I would've gotten it instantly)

Business Cat

I hate when the solution seems so obvious

Rubio

how is ST, which is even defined as an abbreviation, a legal Scrabble word?

Deusovi

5:24 PM

it's not in the US, but it is in the UK

anagrammer.com/scrabble/st

apparently

Rubio

That's ... weird. hehe

John Dvorak

My super-good question would have been whether the rule can be implemented as code without a wordlist or other external resources

Rubio

Sp actually sort of answered that

2 hours ago, by Sp3000

It's not reliant on knowledge only I know though - quadplex/SOWPODS acts as the authoritative source here

I noted it, but didn't know what to do with it

John Dvorak

Yep, it was a rather suspicious note - and I believe it is what sparked the question

Mithrandir

I think that's the longest game that has ever happened in the Puzzling game rooms.

dcfyj

5:33 PM

Oh, was it solved finally?

Business Cat

Nope

dcfyj

lol, ok

Mike Q

Are we enlightened yet

Business Cat

Sp ended our suffering

John Dvorak

Check the star wall

dcfyj

5:36 PM

So alternating letters of a word giving another word

Business Cat

Well I'd be up for a new one, if anyone else is

John Dvorak

I need a break

Morgan G

I could play, but i'd need someone to walk me through the game for the first couple of rounds

Sp3000

(Well I shall be off to bed now - terribly sorry to everyone involved, difficulty was horribly misjudged, the XOR was stupid and I failed to think of how to make the pattern more obvious as time went on)

ffao

Hard to judge difficulty of a rule here :/

@ASCII-only github.com/Manishearth/ChatExchange

John Dvorak

5:49 PM

I'll join in in several minutes or so.

ffao

I'm up for a new one but can't master, can you @BusinessCat?

Since Morgan is new

John Dvorak

15 to 30, maybe less, maybe more

Business Cat

Maybe, I've never done it before

And it'd probably be really easy

ffao

Easy is good

Business Cat

Anyway I need a couple minutes before I can start

ffao

5:51 PM

I used just "the word has >50% vowels" and it took a long time to guess

Sp used something conceptually simple too but a bit more complicated and look at how long that took

Business Cat

OK.

John Dvorak

I can zm to the extent one can zm from mobile while walking

Morgan G

wat

Business Cat

Valid koan: Triplet of integers. True: (15, 16, 17) False: (30, 32, 34)

John Dvorak

I.e., without notes

Morgan G

5:55 PM

master: 30, 31, 32

false

Master 5,10,25

false

Pass, no stones

Oh, sorry, I pass as well I guess

John Dvorak

5:58 PM

Who else is playing?

Business Cat

ffao I guess

@ffao Your turn

John Dvorak

He can hop in later, I guess

Morgan G

Master: 15, 15, 15

Business Cat

false

Morgan G

ah, crap I forgot I have a meeting in a bit - i'll have to dip out from 11:15 - 11:30 PST.

ffao

6:01 PM

I can zm to the extent one can zm while walking on mobile

pass, no stones

Master 17,16,15

True

Master 29,30,31

True

6:04 PM

Master 101,104,107

Business Cat

True

John Dvorak

I'm on WiFi and sitting, yay

Morgan G

master: 14, 15, 16

John Dvorak

Uh, what's the turn order?

Morgan G

Morgan, John, ffao

John you went out of order just now

Business Cat

6:07 PM

False

John Dvorak

I thought you were gone, sorry

Morgan G

just thinking, sorry I'm a bit slow

ffao

Master 29,31,30

Morgan G

Ohhh, my note about leaving was advance notice

Business Cat

True

Morgan G

6:10 PM

Mondo: A triple is budda-like if it has exactly 1 prime number in it

wait is that how that works

No, I need a stone first, right?

dcfyj

mondo is to get stones, guess is to get the rule

ffao

Yes, you do that by saying mondo, giving a triple, and guessing true or false

If you're right you get a stone

Morgan G

ok retract that.

master: 1, 4, 7

ffao

That wasn't right anyway since 29 and 31 are prime

Business Cat

True

John Dvorak

6:13 PM

Mondo 5,8,11

Rubio

Turn order: Morgan, John, ffao, Rubio

True

True

false

true

6:13 PM

It is true

(I'm supposed to keep track of stones right?)

Rubio

Stones (in order): 1, 1, 2, 0

John Dvorak

Guess: Arithmetic sequence with odd start and odd step

ffao

Fails for 29 31 30

Business Cat

^

Morgan G

Ok, now I'm out for a few min, will let you know when i'm back.

John Dvorak

6:15 PM

Oh, I misread the case

Rubio

I still think Master is supposed to give a (new?) counterexample, no?

dcfyj

as far as I know, yes

ffao

According to the official rules you don't lose a stone if no counterexample is needed

Rubio

oh - didn't know that. good to know.

John Dvorak

In that case...

Business Cat

6:16 PM

Alright let me come up with one

Rubio

I think john is going to make a non-trivially-countered new guess

John Dvorak

Guess: The same, except in any order

Rubio

(stones updated)

Business Cat

So a permutation of an arithmetic sequence with odd start and odd step?

John Dvorak

Yes

Business Cat

6:18 PM

(5, 10, 15) is false

John Dvorak

Oh.

Out of stones

ffao

Interesting, that breaks my theory

Master (31,31,31)

Rubio

anyone have a dump?

Business Cat

False

True:
(15, 16, 17)
(17, 16, 15)
(29, 30, 31)
(101, 104, 107)
(29, 31, 30)
(1, 4, 7)
(5, 8, 11)


False:
(30, 32, 34)
(30, 31, 32)
(5, 10, 25)
(15, 15, 15)
(14, 15, 16)
(5, 10, 15)
(31, 31, 31)

Rubio

thanks

ffao

6:20 PM

Not guessing now

master: (11, 16, 21)

True

pass

It's John's turn since Morgan had to afk for a bit

Morgan G

Ok back

Business Cat

6:23 PM

nvm

master: 15, 30, 21

False

Master 15,18,21

False

Pass

6:25 PM

Master 15,10,5

Pass

Business Cat

False

Rubio

Mondo: (11,14,17) → true

True

True

true

6:26 PM

It is true

Morgan G

-

Rubio

Guess: unordered, arithmetic progression, highest value is prime

whoa there I didn't pass

Business Cat

arithmetic progression meaning equal steps?

Morgan G

sorry, realized that

Rubio

yes. but in any order.

ffao

6:28 PM

I just guessed 15 10 5

Morgan G

15 isn't prime

ffao

Or mastered

Oh got it

Rubio

15,10,5 was false though.

ffao

It was after the right border in my phone lol

John Dvorak

Are you using the desktop layout?

Rubio

6:30 PM

did I break the Cat?

Business Cat

Thinking

(-17, 0, 17) is false

Morgan G

-

sorry Rubio still hasn't passed. i'm still getting the hang of it.

ffao

I'm using the "sun is covering the right-hand side of the screen" layout

Rubio

Guess: unordered, positive integers which form an arithmetic progression, and of which the highest is prime

John Dvorak

Oh

Rubio

6:33 PM

(stones updated)

Business Cat

My example can be one that matches my rule but not yours right?

Rubio

yes

(and auto-pass when BC answers, since I'm out of stones)

Business Cat

Well, I think that gets me

John Dvorak

Still thinking?

Rubio

huh. So that's not specifically your rule but it's equivalent?

John Dvorak

6:38 PM

Nice

Business Cat

Unless the step of the progression can be 0, yes

Rubio

well, no - that wouldn't be a progression then :)

(and we already know (31,31,31) is false, so ...)

Business Cat

The rule was the three numbers are pairwise coprime

Oh damn

I don't understand this game

Could've easily disproven

Welp ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ffao

-.- I thought of using this rule but still didn`t get it when it was actually used

is mad at himself

Rubio

hah

Business Cat

6:40 PM

For some reason I didn't think to just counter the fact that it has to be a progression

Meh

John Dvorak

Victory by accident :-p

Rubio

indeed. I'll take it :)

Business Cat

Anything in Rubio's rule falls under mine

Rubio

Valid koan: A word. True: ogre False: layers

John Dvorak

@BusinessCat That's mildly nontrivial

ffao

6:43 PM

Master: onion

Rubio

onion is true

ffao

ogres are like onions

John Dvorak

Master shrek

ffao

I only mastered that so I could make that joke

Rubio

shrek is false (and probably not really a word, but ok)

Mithrandir

6:44 PM

This game is harder to jump into in the middle of a game than, say, Contact.

Rubio

Just started Mith - hop in

master: opening

opening is true

Master: union

union is false

@BusinessCat playing?

Business Cat

6:47 PM

Yes, also multitasking somewhat

Rubio

Turn order: ffao, ~~John~~, Morgan, Mith, Cat

Master: oboe

oboe is false

Huh...

I figured the rule wasn't "starts with o"

ffao

6:49 PM

Master: anion

anion is true

Master occult

occult is false

Master friendship

friendship is false

John Dvorak

6:51 PM

Wrong. Friendship is magic.

Master: many

many is true

Master: forty

forty is true

Master: actor

6:54 PM

actor is false

Master donkey

donkey is false

master fourteen

fourteen is false

Mithrandir

Mondo about

True

Morgan G

6:57 PM

false

True

true

false

Stones (in order): 7, 12, 12, 9, 4

about is false

Mithrandir

Well there goes my theory :)

(passing)

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