What's the community's stand on “Shiva” vs “Shankara” vs “Rudra”?

iammilind

07:04

@TheDestroyer, Why should we consider "Shiva = Rudra"? There are 11 Rudra-s, but only 1 Shiva.

@SS, there are totally 11 Rudra-s, & one of them is Shankara. Shiva is completely different. Isn't it confusing if they are used interchangeably?

The Destroyer

@iammilind Tezz will post an answer soon

I thought to post an answer but he is well versed in Vedas. So, i asked him to post an answer.

Bhargav Rao

07:59

room parent site changed to default (no parent site)

The Destroyer

room parent site changed to hinduism.stackexchange.com

iammilind

@TheDestroyer, sure

The Destroyer

@iammilind Ok. btw, how about changing your chat profile to Hinduism SE?

iammilind

08:38

@TheDestroyer I am not aware how to change it. Haven't noticed it :-)

BTW, regarding Tezz's answering, I have 2 points:
(1) Mostly he may refer scriptures; in such case it's better if we have its Sanskrit version to rule out any translation difference
(2) If this answer is going to be technical, then it would be good if we migrate it to the main site itself; I have edited the Qn accordingly

The Destroyer

08:50

@iammilind He will post with Sanskrit verses only.

@iammilind I think main site is not proper. in short answer will be, there is no single opinion of Rudra and Shiva, even among Shaiva sects or different scriptures. It all depends on interpretation of individuals.

@iammilind Shall i change it?

chat.stackexchange.com/users/19883/iammilind

here

For example, Shiva Purana itself says at some point Rudra is trimurti and at same time represents Shiva. Vedas also say the same. Sri Rudram, which is Samhita says Rudra is all trimurties. There are many such statements. Going nitty gritty makes things complex.

S S

09:53

@iammilind I didn't understand " Also kindly convert this room from "SO" to "Hinduism.SE"." Was that message for The destroyer? I think so.

S S

10:03

This question will be apt for the meta only.

S S

10:29

Wait.. this looks more like a main site question after the revision. But this is posted on meta. What should we discuss about it on meta?

Tezz

11:23

@TheDestroyer sorry I haven't been able to prepare answer upto this time since I was reading that book....

@iammilind btw Supreme Shiva and incarnation through Brahma (for sometime we may call Rudra Avatar) can't be differentiated by Name and Form... because to the Supreme Shiva also the name Rudra is frequently used...

The Destroyer

@Tezz ok. Even i was reading the same book. About to complete, last chapter.

Tezz

@iammilind and to Rudra Avatar also the name Shiva is frequently used... so they are to be understand by concept...

The Destroyer

You can post tomorrow. I may post some answer based on my understanding from Sri Rudram and Shiva Purana, but your answer will be perfect.

@Tezz

Tezz

@TheDestroyer anyway it doesn't matter whether it's me or you who write answer.... Shiva Shankara Rudra are names used in Sri Rudram whose Devata is Rudra...

@TheDestroyer but Rudra here represents Supreme Shiva... because Sri Rudram is a hymn to Supreme Brahman... as it's verses are used in Upanishad like Svetasvatara Upanishad while describing Supreme Brahman...

@TheDestroyer but Sri Rudram verses also describe lower Rudras too... because they describe all kind of Rudras...

The Destroyer

@Tezz ok. You can answer well, as i have limited understanding of Rudra from Vedas.

iammilind

12:17

@TheDestroyer OK .. I have changed it.

@SS By mistake I had created room in SO. Only Mods can convert it back to Hinduism.SE.

@TheDestroyer current revision seems bit Off-topic for the meta. However, you may revert it back, if we decide to keep it for this site.

@SS Yes, I edited like that.

@Tezz Recently I heard from the modern saint (Jaggi Vasudeva), who is a "Shiva" devotee has attained realisation in his own terms, -- that Shiva means "nothingness".

Tezz

@iammilind certainly there is difference between Shiva, and Brahmas son Shiva... but they can't be differentiated by names...

iammilind

@SS, @TheDestroyer, @Tezz, As per the globally accepted standard for this site, Gita & Veda are held as the top most reference.
Now according to Gita, if there are 11 Rudra-s then how can it be same as Shiva?
That's my main concern

11

Q: What kind of references are valid in answers? Are modern works allowed?

This is a question about what kind of references have to be provided when writing answers on Hinduism.SE. My basic question is: Are modern shlokas, scriptures, views, sayings etc. valid when using them as references? Or are only references from the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas and other ancient te...

Tezz

@iammilind I doubt whether any scripture state Shiva = nothingness ... at least scripture state Shiva = everything (Jagat Sarvam Shivaatmakam)... even if we go by Neti Neti approach then also Shiva can't be equated with nothingness...

iammilind

@Tezz Why can't we equate Shiva with "nothingness", should we go with "Neti neti" aproach? IMK, "neti neti" results in nothingness beyond nothingness

Tezz

@iammilind well Shiva tatwa concept is advanced... there are 8 forms which are called 'AshtaMurti' and 11 forms which are 'Ekadash Rudra' again there are Five forms which are 'PanchaBrahman'....

@iammilind because at least existence is accepted... and if there is existence it can't be called nothingness...

iammilind

12:30

@Tezz , Ok in that case we may not apply "neti neti" on Shiva. When we apply "neti neti", it results in "neither existent nor non-existent"

> BG 13.13 - I shall speak of that which is knowable. Knowing which, one attains immortality. The supreme Brahman devoted to 'Me', is beginning-less. 'That' is said to be neither existent nor non-existent. (existent = being)

Tezz

@iammilind check my answer here to understand concept of 11 Rudras 8 Rudras 5 Rudras...

5

A: Why did Lord Shiva take 44 avatars if his primary role is to be the destroyer?

First of all there is not anything like 44 Avatars of Shiva. There are many (actually infinite) Avatars of Lord Shiva. Also as you have asked "What is the need of his avatar if his function is to just destroy the Universe?" So, I'm here describing Avatars along with significance of them: Incarna...

iammilind

@Tezz, I will look into it

Rohit.

12:56

@iammilind Shiva means supreme brahman, lord of maya whereas Rudras are product of Maya.

But there are Maheshvaras, mantras, mantra maheshwars, ananteshvar, aghoreshwar , Rudras etc as well. So one unique tag is okay.

There are even Bhairavas as well.

And there are 108 creations with 108 primary Rudras. There are many other secondary Rudras as well.

@iammilind See, Kailashpati Mahadeva doesn't even seem to be destroyer. Read this.

4

Q: Kailāshpati Mahādeva is not the destroyer ( one among Trinity)?

There are many planes of existence, grouped into hierarchies. Everything which is inside of human being is fated to be manifested outside ( or vice versa) is the reason of existence of worlds. Therefore, respective tattvas are the material cause of the existence of worlds as shown in the pic. F...

shiva shiva-purana agamas tantra kashmiri-shaivism

Destroyer is Rudra who manifests during dissolution of universe. He is Sri Kanthanath which we call Mahadeva. So there would happend many tags if we start digging out dip.

iammilind

@Rohit., ok, in general it will be good to have 3 different tags for each if they are different. But should you feel that it's not required and have a scripture supporting equivalence of all 3, then feel free to post an answer to the main Qn.

Rohit.

@iammilind Yes, better to use Rudra, Shiva & Bhairava. But Very few can differentiate them.

Chinmay Sarupria

16:25

@iammilind Rudra is the one who dwells on Kailash, Sankara is Maha Shambhu, Sri Vishnu along with other devas went outside Hiranyagarbha to meet him. Shiva is Para Shiva or Nirguna Brahman of Advaita.

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What's the community's stand on “Shiv…