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user136984
08:57
@Avery I think her view is fine, I don't have to agree with all she ever says, I can see a lot of different views regarding this, and actually what makes it so confusing for me is that I don't necessarily associate with just one or any for that matter. I'm kind of just expected here to argue for one of them, but really, I see a whole range of them, some say it just doesn't matter, the other says you're stuck with your biological gender and should get used to it.
user136984
Really, there is a whole scale of them that I see and kind of switch between but at the same time don't, it's more that I see the pros and cons of all of them and you see random ones. Although I think I'm managed to keep to at least one or two in this case although maybe you didn't notice.
user136984
I think my view is that you can do whatever you like, if you want to change sex etc, but you should force anything upon others, if people are harassing you you can report them, but you should not infringe upon the freedom of speech and expression of others.
user136984
We're headed towards quite a totalitarian fascist society where you are targetting people who don't think in the same way as you do and people like you try to get laws in place to prevent us. What's happening is really the definition of fascism.
Avery
Avery
> people like you
what are you implying?
user136984
@Avery: Well, the whole trans community and the really PC people in the Canadian government for instance. We were originally debating the law change there.
Avery
Avery
09:00
I really don't think that you get the concept of "PC"
user136984
How so?
Avery
Avery
It's a concept that aims to make everyone happy. You sometimes have to make someone less happy to make a group happy. Before you challenge this, here's an example: Slavery was banned, slaves got happy (because they are now free), slave owners got less happy (because they now don't have people they can force into doing their job for them).
user136984
@Avery That may be, but the moderators in this case have banned me because they have decided, like you, that my views could offend someone and because they might decide to get upset that I should be banned from speaking because I could 'harm' someone.
user136984
@Avery That example does not correlate to this at all, you're oppressing us with this and banning freedom of expression so that some people don't feel 'offended', that is not the same as ending oppression and then having the oppressors not like that. You're oppressing us, we're not oppressing you.
Avery
Avery
I believe that you were banned because you expressed numerous offensive opinions, and when pointed out, you said that you saw nothing wrong with your statements. So, I believe that that led the moderators into timing you out to prevent further damage.
I believe what you said is wrong. The part that's being oppressive is you. We ask you to see us as real people that belong to a gender, and while you're acting nice while we're present, talking otherwise behind our backs... really hurts us more. No one can force anyone to see anyone as something, but we're trying to push scientific facts that support us while we're getting harassed to be accepted properly, and after all that, we're called the oppressors.
And at the end of the day, you're still calling us he/she behind our backs, and denying who we really are.
user136984
09:11
@Avery This precisely sums up the problem. So opinions can now be censored and freedom of speech removed because some people find them 'offensive', so you are the thought police? You want a fascist state where people who don't have the set views you like get banned or even go to jail. And you can't say that people reading different opinions 'damages' them, and even if they went and self harmed, they should get help, it's just crazy if everyone has to be controlled by them and be blackmailed.
user136984
It's like if Trump received a threat before the end of his campaign saying that he had to withdraw otherwise this person would kill themselves and he would have caused that. If he didn't withdraw and this person did kill themselves, would you say he was to blame and that he should have withdrawn?
user136984
Or is it the problem of the mentally unstable person who shouldn't have the world changed into their 'perfect' place and instead seek help? It may just be a sad case, but the option of controlling the whole world so that it doesn't tip their mental state is ridiculous and violates everybody else's rights.
Avery
Avery
I'd rather not continue this discussion
I'd be happy if you didn't bring it up again
user136984
And I'm afraid that trying to destroy my rights and not excepting me the way I am signals it to be yours. I accept you and your opinion and whatever gender you want to be, but you shouldn't be able to infringe upon my rights to believe and express what I want. I don't think that I am infringing on your rights at all, if you decide to get upset in this case it is your doing.
user136984
Ok, I'm afraid that you are trying to oppress me, you are trying to prevent me from using certain words even when you're not present, it is my right to do so, I believe in a free and equal society where you can do what you want unless it infringes on the rights of others, but there is a difference between when it is my problem and when it is yours.
user136984
09:19
We don't have to continue this discussion in here, and as a courtesy I will not, but my rights remain. And you appear to be a fascist trying to control me.
user136984
@Avery: I hope you do one day find true peace and happiness. :)
Avery
Avery
I am not a fascist.
At most, I'm a communist.
But it doesn't really matter.
user136984
09:54
@Avery: Banning a view point under law and preventing anyone from expressing it is fascism. Anyway, you said you don't want to discuss this any more so let's just leave it. :)
Zanna
Zanna
10:22
Germaine Greer is indeed a known TERF :(

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