morning

morn

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Wow, splitting it up like that makes sure it can last until the afternoon :P

@Tinkeringbell I can continue being half-awake all day. One my less appreciated talents.

Etiquette question: At what point is it appropriate to tell a WhatsApp group (that is there for work-related business) to move the noise elsewhere or I'll leave, since I'm doing that on my private number (don't have a work number to use for WhatsApp)?

They've been at it since before the weekend, about how bad it is that one coworker suddenly died, and while I understand the process of how an announcement will be followed by 'I'm sorries' and 'Gasp, how suddens', I do feel it's inappropriate for the same people to still be chatting about this a week later in that particular group?

@Tinkeringbell whatsapp groups for work are rarely for work.

@JourneymanGeek Well this one is supposed to be, and so far there have been people reminding others that it is, which has worked well. Just wondering whether the point has been reached where such a reminder is appropriate.

@Sarov The point is that if I leave, I will also miss out on some useful stuff... mostly stuff that points me towards bothering with the horrible 2FA the company has implemented, and go check Teams/Outlook/intranet there.

And, well... I do want them to know that they're basically breaking their own rules.

XD

pet peeve.

i'll prove you wrong by saying my dad also has a whatsapp group for work

@Tinkeringbell I'd say just add a "Please contact me if you bring up something about 2FA, though."

he just mutes it and checks it when it's necessary

@Tinkeringbell I get it, but again, death can be a really touchy subject and you really don't want to be painted as insensitive regarding it...

@Sarov Meh. It's not like they're still in the 'oh so bad' phase, they're just chatting about what fun they had with the guy, and sharing pictures!

So, breaking the 'work related announcements only' rule, very hard and fast.

But you're right, a message and just leaving the group might be the best bet at this point.

That can still be an expression of grief. Different people grieve differently. See: funeral vs wake.

@Sarov Sure, but the chat isn't a 'grief support group' :P

I've just discovered what seems to be an e-mail that prompted all this mess though. 'Please sign the online condolences register for this person' and it asks to share memories.

Rules and regulations tend to get thrown out the window around grief. I remember, on a Death class I took in uni, when the prof pointed out that people will put graves at the side of highways, I asked "Isn't that illegal?" to which the prof replied "Sure, but the government isn't stupid enough to try to enforce that law to grieving families."

"Rules and regulations tend to get thrown out the window".... ehhh.... my experience is that there's even more rules and regulations. You have to bury stuff properly according to all sorts of government regulations for example, and you can't just dump the body in the backyard and be done with it. You can't even bury certain types of bodies, like those of miscarriages...

Our neighbor had a miscarriage at a very early stage, and she wasn't allowed to bury anything. It was just treated as medical waste, I think. I could see if I could prompt mom to regale me with the details again.

Then there's the unwritten rules around this stuff, like what you need to wear during the funeral, like clothes and facial expressions.

We also covered that, actually. Some people/cultures prefer to be told what to do during the grieving process, so that they don't have to stress about the decisions, themselves. (The medical waste thing is likely a separate thing based around health concerns, though.)

@Sarov dealing with death's... hard

(granted mine was my dog - but that's family too)

@Sarov there's no... closure I guess

funerals and such are for the living not the dead.

@Sarov Well, to an extent I can understand that, knowing what to do to get things over with is nice. It becomes a problem if you're made to jump through all sorts of hoops just to please others, especially if that other can't even notice you jumping through them!

As for the medical waste... it highly likely was health concerns, but the same health concerns are there if you bury a body at the side of highways.

Nothing unusual in that different people will have different levels of what's expected/comfortable. Problem with death/grief is that there's an even larger stigma than usual about not conforming.

Yeah, I can see that. People aren't conforming to the rules of the chat and it was irking me massively. I've left the group now :)

Told them that the group wasn't for chatter, that I was promised it wouldn't be used for that, and that I'm leaving now because that promise was broken, and to not re-add me.

Mm.

Think that covers about everything except 'don't call me just because you disagree'.

@Sarov Hey, you were a part of that decision too! Seeing people come up with all kinds of excuses to break the rules made me realize they weren't going to stop this even if I asked nicely. XD

Heh. Welcome?

Yeah, thanks :)

@Tinkeringbell Why would you start right off with combining your request with "or else I'll leave"? If you did not ask them before, then in my opinion it gives a little "my way or the highway" vibes. Are they aware that you are hosting it with your private number? Sorry I am not familiar with how whatsapp works. Could you phrase your request without the "or else" part?

@lila Yeah, Sarov already pointed that out: Leave or don't threaten :P It's a thing we're supposed to know as mods too, don't make threats, either do or don't XD

The point is probably frustration: There was a lot of nagging for me to join that group, with my private number. At least the managers are aware, but they insisted that having a group where they could make quick announcements was a good thing.

It kinda was too: Since most of us are working for clients, and the company itself has hidden the common communication channels behind a 2FA system that's not the most userfriendly, the whatsapp channel was a good way to share things that people otherwise might miss for a day or two because they can't be arsed to jump through the 'log in' hoops.

But they also very much promised they would use if for announcements, and announcements only. I also insisted on that, before I'd even consider joining with my private number. Because I don't want my phone to be buzzing all the time with chatter, but ignoring the chat would make it just as useless as the other communication channels (I don't check my WhatsApp often, my muted chats even less).

Like I said though, I've already left the group now :)

@Tinkeringbell oh ok I understand, I did not read the complete transcript

@JourneymanGeek This reminded me of something I read once. Some (Celtic I think?) mythology states that at the gates to the underworld are two dogs. And that if you wail too loudly, the dogs will get agitated and attack those passing through the gates. So you're not supposed to mourn too loudly, or else your dead loved one could get bitten.

@Sarov I want 6, just to control the neighbors :D

Probably came about from some crotchety old priest getting tired of people crying so he made up a story.

Good priest. Should've made more of those!

Pfftahahaha.

I mean, there's a difference between crying and wailing XD

Right. Off to bed with me, it's already an hour later than usual. Anyone else just watch the Eurovision Song contest semi-finals?

Can I interest anyone into liking and voting for some broccoli on Saturday? :D

Night.