The Awkward Silence

Tinkeringbell

7:03 AM

morning

A J

afternoon!

Ael

8:10 AM

@Tinkeringbell Thanks for the ping! I do indeed like to look at those :)

By the way @AJ The meta silence is freezing

Tinkeringbell

twitter.com/EHEH_Spotter/status/1351517692897988608?s=20 < OMG... some Mexican pilots seriously thought it was a good idea to ask if they could fly their Boeing low over Amsterdam, to 'do some sightseeing' XD

A J

@Ael Wait a minute! Let me grab my hammer.

CaldeiraG

9:28 AM

Morning

How did the community contact 1 user? — double-beep 12 hours ago

good question XD

Tinkeringbell

9:44 AM

@CaldeiraG Put a reply there ;)

@double-beep I think it's a mod-message Robert Cartaino sent before being fired, so it's now counted as being from "the membership of Meta Stack Exchange without diamonds next to their names". — Tinkeringbell ♦ 3 mins ago

CaldeiraG

@Tinkeringbell yay :)

makes sense

Tinkeringbell

11:24 AM

sigh. Not really an IPS question I think, but what would any of you do if someone claims a burn-out without seeking a professional confirmation of that diagnosis and refusing to seek professional help with their symptoms? This person is basically prioritizing what they spend their energy on 'wrong', and expect other people to pick up their slack with work that needs to be done, only so they can go do things that don't need to be done?

(I have already told them it's time to get professional help, but that wasn't appreciated)

Arthur Hv

12:08 PM

Although it seem like popular to say so, I don't think burn out is a clinical condition, although I'm open to contradicting sources. I would say some depressed persons find refuge in work and some healthy persons find depression from a too fragile balance. In general there is little you can do for people in bad mental health condition anyway.

E.g. we have my boyfriend's sister which is hearing voices and we are powerless.

CaldeiraG

@Tinkeringbell although medical confirmation can still be faked, I think it's the best course of action to confirm any kind of disease really

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: Friend randomly texts me unkind messages accusing me of not being a good friend

I have a friend who sometimes messages me accusing me of being a bad friend. He's done it to other people to and one of them thought maybe it's drunk texting. For example the other day he really wanted me to come to his place. He made me a really nice dinner and I left at midnight. He wanted me t...

CaldeiraG

for all you know you could be "sick" for months and still get paid

@ExtrovertedMainMan seems like that friend is the issue here

looking for attention; doesn't seem to value the friendship

Tinkeringbell

12:38 PM

@ArthurHv I'm not sure if you would find a burn-out in the DSM or something like it, but over here it's quite normal that if you suffer from it, you go see a doctor and get a referral to a psychologist that will treat you to recover.

The reason I was asking relates to 'there's little you can do' though... This person needs to fix their own problems, but instead I'm expected to their work while they continue prioritizing leisure time over work. And it's kinda being sold to me as 'something you can and need to do for me', which doesn't make sense to me because why would you expect someone else to fix things you're not even trying to fix yourself?

I was hoping there was a way to make them realize that.

Ael

12:53 PM

@Tinkeringbell IMO, it's really dangerous to go into burn out and not seek professional help. I know that because I did it and it's been two years and my health is still bad and I am seriously wondering if it could be because I did not treat my burn out in time.

Tinkeringbell

I sorta know that, as a coworker is currently struggling with his girlfriend that has the same problems. Not seeking help, and now that she has help she's apparently trying to get off with doing as little as possible wrt therapy (That's his side of the story anyways).

In other words she's done nothing to fix her problem, and now she still has a problem.

Ael

@Tinkeringbell In case of burn out, you generally need two things: time out from work and antidepressant (and they take several weeks to kick in and sometimes a specific drug don't work for you so after 2 months without any improvement you need to switch to another one hoping that it will work). So, if the therapist is offering anything else, it just won't really work (and you thus need to switch therapist which is honestly exhausting, especially if you are already in burn-out)

Anyway, to get back to your coworker: their burnout is not your problem. It's the manager(s) problem. They are the ones who assign tasks. If you coworker can't do a task anymore, they should talk with their manager who will then re-assign the tasks. You shouldn't even be aware that this re-assigning is due to burn out. That's a severe breach of privacy (unless the coworker tells you themself, in which case it's fine)

CaldeiraG

@Ael true

Tinkeringbell

@Ael I... didn't mean to imply this was about a coworker. This is about a family member XD The coworker that has a girlfriend with these problems was a different anecdote.

If it was a co-worker I'd have just told the manager I can only do 1 person's worth of work, that's true. And generally the managers are already great at making sure work is prioritized... and you can't get out of work for a burn-out here without seeing a 'ARBO-arts' or 'bedrijfarts', basically a doctor specialized in work-related illnesses and rehabilitating people back to work.

Ael

1:14 PM

@Tinkeringbell Ah sorry, I misunderstood x) If it's a family member, then yeah, you should take to them about seeing a doctor. Not because of not doing the assigned task, but because it's really not good to have mental health issues left untreated. Though know that even if they are family, the details of their medical condition and what the doctor said are none of your business (my family tend to forget that and get really intrusive about things related to my health).

Also, if you have arguments about tasks, it's probably a sign that you shouldn't be living together. Not living together = no argument about tasks related things. So that's probably a good thing that you will be leaving soonish

Tinkeringbell

Yeah... I guess the moving out is again my friend...

I've already told them they should see a doctor and that I'm fed up with their excuses and spending the weekend doing chores while they are doing other things, then claiming they were (and are) too tired to their share of chores :|

Ael

@Tinkeringbell If there are too many things to be done now, maybe you should have a talk and decide to do some of the tasks less often? A significant number of house-chore can usually be postponed for a week or two without "too much" issue. (I mean, it's not great, but it's usually doable)

lila

hi

Ael

@lila Yellow :)

Or should I say pink?

lila

or violet :D

Ael

1:27 PM

Ah, violet is good indeed :D (it's a name in French, will pink isn't. But "Rose" who is the translation of "pink" is also a name)

lila

and violet and rose are also names of flowers :D

Tinkeringbell

@Ael I don't think that'll work or I wouldn't have been told to do the things I'm doing now. To be honest I probably made the mistake of spoiling/enabling when I tried my best to pick up some of the slack when there was a moment of much stress around my grandparents. I was trying too hard to please. Now it's extra hard to get through the realization that that was supposed to be just one/two weeks/times, not every weekend/week-day evening thereafter as well....

But laundry, vacuuming, cleaning the toilets, that kind of stuff really needs to happen each week in a household of 4 people as things will get dirty really soon.

Ael

@Tinkeringbell If there is too much work and people have health issues that prevent them to do it, then no, it does not. (yes, it's dirty. But dirty won't kill. However, forcing too much when you have health issues might)

@lila True that :)

@Tinkeringbell IMO, you should still have a talk about the subject if you want to solve the issue. But it's true a talk might not be enough to solve the problem

Tinkeringbell

@Ael The point is that a.) The health issues aren't confirmed and b.) The health issues seem very conveniently related to having to do chores, like I said they're having no problem doing all other kinds of physical activities that just aren't necessary.

So yeah... a talk will probably become a fight/shouting match and then we're back at square 1.

I at least don't want to live in a pigshed, so I'll probably end up doing all the things anyways, and just spoiling further.

Ael

@Tinkeringbell When you have mental health issues, some tasks are just easier to do than others. And it indeed doesn't make sense from an outside point of view.

Tinkeringbell

1:35 PM

@Ael The things they're doing aren't even 'tasks'. A task is something that is necessary...

Ael

Also, chores being chores, people tend to not like them. Which means that they need more mental energy to do them. Mental energy that they may not have

Tinkeringbell

These are more 'leisure activities', if it has to have a name...

@Ael Sure.... but then we're back at 'go get a doctor and help to fix that because you can't live like that forever'.

I guess the thing about mental energy might make sense, but that's not how this exact person raised me wrt chores: To make chores repetitive and make them a habit, so they won't require any mental energy, just perhaps a bit of physical energy if it requires e.g. hauling buckets of water or vacuum cleaners.

I guess it's time to change topics, as this one is only going in circles and making me more frustrated at the whole thing not having a solution... I'm listening to a press conference on new lockdown measures, and they're at the stage where journalists can ask questions. There's this really, really unprofessional one that doesn't only ask questions that were already answered in the press conference itself, but also just keeps talking through the answers and giving dismissive remarks ...

I thought that wasn't a thing in journalism here O.o

Ael

@Tinkeringbell Yeah, they probably need to see a doctor indeed. But people are very good at persuading themself that "I will get better soon", "it's not that bad", "it's only temporary so I don't need a doctor".

When you are not used to talk to doctors about your mental health, you really need to be desperate in order to seek help. And even then, some people just kill themself without ever having reached out for said help. The worst is when they do reach out, but people (and doctors) dismiss them, thinking that they are over exaggerating. So please, when someone tells you they have mental health issues, trust them. And know that it's probably even worst than what they are telling you.

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Meh. There's a bit more that's probably unsuitable for this conversation but there's been some very telling conversations in the past that make me say 'Go follow your own advice and see a doctor/psychologist before you expect me to fix your problems'.

Ael

@Tinkeringbell You lost me. Who should follow those advices?

Tinkeringbell

1:50 PM

@Ael The person that's now refusing to see a doctor has in the past been quite adamant in pressuring me to see a doctor. (For stuff that I wasn't complaining about)

So, at this point they should follow their own advice instead of expecting me to fix stuff.

Ael

@Tinkeringbell Ah yeah, they should definitively follow their advice and see a doctor

Arthur Hv

So it's a relative, offloading work to you, in the pretext they are burning out ?

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv not 'burning out', they're saying they're already are burnt-out. And yes.

CaldeiraG

@lila o/

Ael

@Tinkeringbell That's not cool. If you aren't complaining about something, they can suggest that you should go see a doctor. But pressuring you into doing it is going a bit too far IMO (like: "mind your own business please")

Tinkeringbell

1:55 PM

Yeah, I know that... I guess the whole conversation here is just frustration at this point though and no longer searching for a constructive way to deal with the situation XD

Arthur Hv

It sounds like them invoking their mental health in requests is just putting extra stress on the fact you accept to do extra work, in NVC this is referred as demands and I would gladly try to find a polite way to say fk off to such thing, either you are too tired to care its done or not, either you're not and can't use that as a pretext, involving others to fix your issues is indeed twisted

Refusing to do the work could be leverage to imply it's a doctor problem, not yours

But idk it's a very theoretical position

Ael

Let's talk about happier things. So, how is covid in your country? :p

Also, it's been a very long time: @ips can we have a cat?

IPS Comment Bot

Ael

Ahah, this one is tired of the lockdown x)

"I have been sitting on this couch for a full year now"

Tinkeringbell

2:12 PM

@Ael Numbers are slowly going down but people are massively worried about the British mutation (weird actually, it's the British mutation but we can't call it the Wuhan virus anymore XD) and there's apparently also a South African mutation that's extra contagious. As such there just was a press conference on extra measures: Visitors limited to 1 a day, they're going to put in place more travel restrictions, and they're going to debate a curfew.

If there is going to be a curfew (it needs to be approved by the government but it's a bit weird since the government disbanded itself over another scandal last week), it's going to be from 20:30 to 4:30.

And then it'll start Friday.

So my brother and I have been planning a late night mcDrive snack drive for tomorrow evening XD

Like proper covidiots...

How's lockdown over there?

Ael

@Tinkeringbell Well, enjoy your mcDrive ^^ Also, is the driver truly worst than grocery shopping? Won't you be in contact with less people since it's a drive?

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Oh, of course we will be. But it's a classic case of 'circumventing the rules while you still can' to go planning an extra visit to a McDrive when you know there's a curfew coming XD

Ael

@Tinkeringbell I think the prime minister is supposed to talk tonight or tomorrow night. I'm not sure but the government is basically talking every week know to tell us what changes and what doesn't. This time, we will know if ski stations will reopen or not

Tinkeringbell

Oh wow, that sounds like you're further along in actually getting back to normal!

Ael

@Tinkeringbell No, we are definitively not x) The answer will probably be "sorry, but the reopening the 6th of February won't be possible"

We do have a France wide curfew between 6pm and 6am.

So things aren't that great

Though, the issue with skiing is that people fall, break something and end up in the hospital. The covid contamination are not really a worry here. So maybe there is still hope regarding ski?

Tinkeringbell

2:23 PM

@Ael If it's anything like the reasoning they gave behind banning fireworks (we can't treat the few people that partially blow themselves up with illegal fireworks or think it's a good idea to get drunk and play with explosive stuff)... I think they're going to remain closed. Also I did not realize this was about reopening on the 6th of February, I had thought it would be sooner then XD

Ael

Nah, they try to "warn us" in advance when they plan on reopening stuff. It makes people less unhappy. Though they always warn us "if the number are under X, we will be able to reopen Y" and often the numbers are not under X, so no reopening and people are sad again.

Also, the 6th of February will be the beginning of the holidays for zone A in France (we have 3 zones that don't go to holiday exactly at the same time), thus why this specific date is important

Tinkeringbell

2:40 PM

Ah, that makes sense (we have the zones here too: North, middle, South ;) ). Over here there have been complaints about a 'lack of perspective', so I think it's good they're trying to at least say 'we can reopen X if numbers are at Y'.

Arthur Hv

As someone not following news closely, I'm concerned my rights are being so quick to change from freedom to curfew to lockdown to curfew to lockdown again and now it's 6 maximum unless it's a church etc etc. too much regulatory changes for me

I usually lag behind when it comes to announcements. So I'm concerned that I don't know anymore if a service will be available or that I do something illegal without knowing. We celebrated a birthday recently I have no idea if that was actually legal.

Ael

2:55 PM

@ArthurHv The "6 person limit" is actually a recommendation so it's technically not illegal to be more. Also, I believe children don't count in this "6 person only"

So, unless you were like 100 people at that birthday, you are probably fine ^^

(though I don't know what is the number where it becomes illegal to be more than X people together)

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, and I don't know about France but unless you're gathering in big enough groups that can be noticed from the outside here (which are basically big parties), there's very little 'enforcement' behind e.g. our '1 visitor a day per household' rules.... they basically can't enforce who you invite to your home, so it's not a 'rule' just an 'advice' that everyone happily ignores XD

Arthur Hv

3:24 PM

@Ael We were a good number like the covidiots we are (think 16 or so), but it's quite difficult to resist social pressure, when I said I might not come my bf was all very disapointed and said "if I don't go then I don't go" etc. etc.

if you don't *

Tinkeringbell

4:00 PM

@ArthurHv Isn't that like an immediate deal during covid times though? "If you don't go I won't go" > Great, that means you're not bringing home a deadly disease to me! :D

Arthur Hv

I was a bit furious in the car, having second thoughts and all, but he consider there is no canceling once I said yes, and takes this kind of events like a duty esp. since he has gifts and he loves to gift.

I said something like "don't count on me for these events in the next 6 months" and he was quite shocked

said he would cancel his own birthday party for being 40, that he is planing, even though it's in June

I could tell he was really furious that I threaten not to come at familial events. For some reason he consider that very important and my presence at least equally important. It's very meh to me though

IPS Comment Bot

4:18 PM

Consider the sunk-cost fallacy... — Jon Custer 37 secs ago

#26681 Jon Custer (181 rep) | Q: What to do when lifechanges force a breakup? (score: 0) | posted 25 hours ago by Renan Nobuyuki Hirayama (109 rep) | Toxicity 0.10985476 | tps/fps: 0/0

Matched regex(es) ["short-comment"]

Tinkeringbell

4:46 PM

@ArthurHv I understand the sentiment. My parents are kinda similar with celebrating birthdays, if it's up to me we don't do anything and they're always wanting to go overboard and spend the day serving guests.... honestly if that was what I liked doing I'd have become a waitress XD

I think there's not really any right or wrong about these things in 'normal' times, though now with COVID I find it strange your families are even throwing parties.

CaldeiraG

7:07 PM

I think i got my script to reboot IPS bot to work :D

every day at 2am

Tinkeringbell

Fingers crossed!

Extroverted Main Man

7:23 PM

0

Q: How to be there for our persons during Pandemic times?

2020 was a bad year for (face to face) human interaction, and 2021 is going down the same route (at least in my country, and in many others for sure). For almost a year now, I have barely seen my closest friends on person. I can count on one hand how many times we were together, and that number w...

friends conversations online-interaction

Extroverted Main Man

7:48 PM

0

Q: I have trouble talking to people when I get angry with them. What could be the possible cause and what can I do about it?

Long story short. Tensions had been running high between my girlfriend and her parents, so we didn't talk to them for several months. After finally talking to her mom, my girlfriend came home and told me how it all went. One of the issues her mom talked about, was me. They felt unwelcome because ...

conflict-resolution

Tinkeringbell

8:02 PM

Was IPS linked somewhere again?

It's busy all of a sudden today XD

Extroverted Main Man

11:09 PM

0

Q: How support a friend in processing an emotionally abusive relationship

I (male) am friends with a woman - I am significantly older than her, and we don't have romantic or sexual interest in each other. Up to recently she was (In my opinion) in an emotionally abusive relationship, and during that time some other friends and me supported her emotionally. On the ration...

abuse

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