The Awkward Silence - 2020-03-30

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12:44 AM

@ArthurHavlicek right - the first is ruled out by the OP, and the second.. is what I fear might not have a good answer on account of it being a difficult thing to do (in part because in my experience, it requires both parties to have the right attitude for it to work)

5 hours later…

6:01 AM

morning!

1 hour later…

Arthur Havlicek

7:05 AM

morning

morning!

is it morning already?

Arthur Havlicek

Its always morning somewhere

It is morning :)

@Tink can you access anything at interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/22075?

7:16 AM

nopes 404

Arthur Havlicek

@EmC That's a fair opinion and I don't think I disagree but that doesn't mean the question doesn't have this as an answer. It's not because it's not the answer the OP wants that its a bad answer :)

Weeeeird.

That must've been a really bad one

Ahhh, no, it's an election nomination post

But /q/ doesn't redirect for those, only /questions/ does

Ah. I shouldn't have looked.

There's better things to see on Monday morning.

7:47 AM

morning

late shift today, I don't start work until another 5 hours, and won't be done until 11pm

That doesn't sound too much fun either :(

its not

At least you can sleep in now? ;)

I cannot

Oh... the saw?

7:49 AM

they start heavy machinery work in the backyard downstairs at 7am sharp these days

:/

The game plan is to go to sleep immediately when coming home and then sleeping till 7

Yeah, I guess that's your only option :(

Earplugs?

White noise?

2 hours later…

9:26 AM

so my city is applying today stricter rules to circulation, pretty much closing streets i would say

the bridge between lisbon and everything else on the south are very strict now

i don't blame them, people are willing to travel to Algarve at this time of the year just because they can :(

We're supposed to hear if they're going to extend these measures, make even stricter ones, or lift restrictions, tomorrow... I'm hoping for the last, fearing the second, but thinking it'll be the first ;)

president is working with investigators to figure out if state of emergency is extended

user image

@CaldeiraG This is just... plain out stupid. You get what you deserve, though needing these strict rules because of other peoples stupidity is like punishing the whole class instead of the 1 student that's misbehaving, just because you don't know who's misbehaving.

@Tinkeringbell That's true

Picture of the entrance of the bridge

up there

Arthur Havlicek

@Tinkeringbell it's a lot of people that are misbehaving some way or another.

9:32 AM

@CaldeiraG That's a long row of traffic...

@ArthurHavlicek There's still more that are keeping to the rules.

I bet if you group them into class sized bits, there's 1 in 30 that doens't behave?

@Tinkeringbell Usual day over there now, before the pandemic it was already crowded

Arthur Havlicek

@Tinkeringbell I'm not sure of that. Imagine that, how many people one day crossed the street out of the pedestrian passages ?

There's pictures of a lifeliner (medical assistance helicopter) landing on the Dam in Amsterdam, usually the busiest plaza in the city.

Lots of people that live on the other side because it's cheaper, go through the bridge every day

user image

9:34 AM

other alternatives can be costly such as boats / trains and pretty crowded too

@CaldeiraG Ah, yeah. Same things happen here, most traffic each day is from people that live in one area of the country (cheap) to the city for work

Yeah

We don't really take boats to work, but the train can be expensive if your boss isn't paying for commuting.

IT jobs are an big example

rome2rio.com/map/Lisbon/Almada

Yeah, same here. A lot of it is IT or management jobs, because those jobs tend to aggregate themselves into 1 big building.

9:40 AM

:)

Arthur Havlicek

@Tinkeringbell There is a video (RSA animate) which really influenced my thinking about dishonesty which I would recommend. I no longer think there is a "disturbing minority" in everything. I think we're all capable of being quite dishonest at times. youtube.com/watch?v=XBmJay_qdNc

@ArthurHavlicek Ever read 'making evil'?

Arthur Havlicek

@Tinkeringbell No

It makes the same point. Depending on who you ask, different things are evil.

I'm staying home, there's a certain president out there in Brazil that finds that behavior stupid and worrying.
Other people go out, I find their behavior stupid and worrying.

That doesn't mean there's no scientific evidence to prove that going out right now and just acting like nothing is wrong isn't stupid.

And that there's a minority of people that make strict lockdowns necessary... because I have empirical evidence that a 'common sense' lockdown works, except for what you call that 'disturbing minority'.

Arthur Havlicek

What do you call a 'common sense' lockdown ?

and what is the empirical evidence

9:50 AM

I'm out for lunch.

BBL

Compelling evidence indeed!

10:08 AM

reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/fri53y/…

user image

Pff, rookie numbers :P

1 hour later…

11:30 AM

So, the common sense lockdown means over here, the government trusts us to only go outside when necessary and to do our outside exercising in the vicinity of our own homes. We don't have to print papers/forms to go outside for groceries, walking the dog or exercising, and the police/army aren't checking everyone that's outside doing these things if they have a proper reason for doing them. The police is only enforcing the 'no groups larger than 3 if not a family' with fines.

Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation…

Also documentation: The press conference our prime minister gave early last week, saying that if people didn't stick to the rules themselves, they'd have to enforce them. Since then, the group of people that doesn't stick to the rules has shrunk (see previous part about news articles).

So yes, it's small groups of people that make strict lockdowns necessary.

That goes for every 'golden rule' though. You can have things that everyone should do so everyone profits equally... there's always going to be one or more people that won't, because breaking the rule allows them more profit than others.

'Everyone is supposed to stay home, so taking the train to visit the beach won't hurt, because everyone is supposed to stay home I won't encounter anyone there'. > full beach.

Also it apparently just leaked that the measures currently in place here will be extended until after April 6th. Rumours only though.

Also.. if multiple sources are being said to be at the base of a rumour... is the source reporting that rumour according to multiple sources part of the set of multiple sources?

Extroverted Main Man

12:07 PM

0

Q: How do I tell a woman that she is addicted to her smart phone without hurting her feelings?

I am wondering what is the best way to tell a girl/woman that she has become addicted to her smart phone without hurting her feelings. I have a new girlfriend who is constantly on her phone smart. On our first date, she took it out twice in the restaurant to send texts to her friends. Plus, it s...

relationships conflict-aversion etiquette boundaries

Cases: 6408 (+446) / Dead: 140 (+21)

@ExtrovertedMainMan Could use a few close votes...

Arthur Havlicek

@Tinkeringbell There is still no evidence that it's not everybody that infringe rules at a very low frequency in comparison with the claim its the SAME people (e.g. predicted sample) that would do so repeatedly. Although probably you have the two coexisting (people that sometimes infringe rules and people that just don't care)

@Tinkeringbell Yes and one more thing

🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

:P

but I conclude that OP is the one that's not interesting

Arthur Havlicek

@Tinkeringbell Maybe that nuance is not really your point but well

12:18 PM

and you should probably delete this as spam

-2

A: How do I tell a woman that she is addicted to her smart phone without hurting her feelings?

There are many ways you can say this. There are also some common responses and words of advice from women who have been diagnosed with ADHD, bipolar disorder or depression which will help in terms on your success as well the fact that it has an impact on relationships (for example "You're not rig...

@CaldeiraG Aww come on, if it's spam they're replying... I never had a spammer to play with...

Ah, they replied :o

but the comment doesnt make sense

Okay, so I'm claiming there's a specific set of people breaking a specific rule. If that's once, or twice, or consistently, that doesn't matter: They're breaking the rules.

It seems you're arguing that everybody sometimes breaks a rule (not the same rule, but any rule), and thus the behavior of rule breaking is more okay?

Arthur Havlicek

@Tinkeringbell I'm not saying it's more ok, but that most people broke a rule once

I don't have a particular point about COVID

but like if I had someone in front of me that broke the lockdown because it's not strictly enforce I'd empathize and I understand we sometimes need strict rules for them to be followed

@CaldeiraG True. Seems like some kind of text making robot. I spam deleted it.

12:25 PM

user image

@ArthurHavlicek Okay. That was mostly my point this morning: that even though it feels like the whole class being punished because 1 student misbehaves (and that's a bit of a saying here so please don't get hung up on the numbers again)... it's sometimes necessary to have those strict rules and enforcement.

I got the puff it's gone :P

@CaldeiraG Enjoy it :P

Arthur Havlicek

@Tinkeringbell Ok, and my point is that we could all be that one student at some point :)

i got fired from class once. Was a bit of a shock.

i was laughing too loud in amphitheater

@Tinkeringbell little bit off-topic, just got told by a friend that while he was having a online lecture someone draw a D on the screen somehow and everyone got -20 points :(

12:29 PM

@ArthurHavlicek Perhaps. That got kinda lost in translation though because I was talking with Caldeira about something very specific, and so wasn't immediately thinking about 'all rules evah'.

@CaldeiraG Justice.

:P

Arthur Havlicek

@Tinkeringbell Possibly in my part I'm not native speaker and sometimes the nuances are a bit escaping me

Same here...

Might also have been perception bias... Being pretty focused on that single rule, and you might miss other things.

+1 on that :P

Arthur Havlicek

My bf reminded me that domestic violence is soaring these days. I feel so sad about that

Violence from your closest pairs is the worst kind. The kind that transforms your relationship to intimacy for good

@ArthurHavlicek Once lockdowns are over, divorce rates will probably soar too.

I saw news messages that claimed that already happened in China.

Arthur Havlicek

12:42 PM

that could be good news for our apartment research :D

although im so afraid of leaving this one because of how our cat destroyed it

but this will have to happen some day

Best thing that can happen is that you won't get your deposit back, worst case you'll be sued to pay for damages? Or is it not that bad :P

Arthur Havlicek

I think I could be asked to pay back for damages. There is a door we destroyed because my bf got locked inside the bathroom. There is also many things that got clawed : walls, closets etc.

@CaldeiraG Cases: 11.750 (+884), Hospital: 3990 (+507), Dead: 864 (+93)

@ArthurHavlicek Oof, that's not so great :/

Arthur Havlicek

We are here for a long time so I just hope that's going to be gentle. I am not afraid of the money issue if that's not over 2-3 months of rent. I'm more like embarrassed at a personal level....

You could have someone over to do the repairs before you leave?

Landlord will never know :P

Arthur Havlicek

12:50 PM

I don't know anybody and it's a bit hard to have someone trust-able and cheap these days... but yea that would be what I'd prefer

although probably some inconvenience of works if i do that

Yeah.. Hmm.

Arthur Havlicek

well it's just a matter of getting an online phone book and moving my phat arse but :D

Hah, I hate making those kinds of calls too..

And if you can have the repairs done e.g. after you've moved out, there won't be any disturbance for you... But your landlord will likely lose a month or two in rent alone.

Arthur Havlicek

yea I think we should get that door repaired. Apparently its a custom dimension and not possible to replace at reasonable cost

for the walls I don't really know, its probably best handled when the flat will be empty

1:07 PM

Yeah, walls are easiest when the rest of the room is empty

Arthur Havlicek

doors look a lot less expensive than I thought, even with workforce. I could maybe replace the whole thing for 150€. I was expecting a lot more

@Tinkeringbell it's not as steep which is good

Arthur Havlicek

my day was productive at least for someone :D

Hospital cases are on a different site that's only a dashboard so only current data I guess

@CaldeiraG Yeah it seems to be flattening at about 1000 new cases, 500 hospitalizations and 100 dead each day. I hope it stays that way.

(and decreases!!! Not stay like this forever... but you know... not increase :P)

@ArthurHavlicek Yay!

1:17 PM

@Tinkeringbell yep :P

If you're stuck at home compiling code, you can start playing on a Nintendo Switch, right? :P

researchers already think that Portugal done its best efforts to flatten the curve and it's working

@Tinkeringbell depends

some people's employers mandate webcams

in that case doing anything you wouldnt at work might be ill advised

Heh, no webcams here :P So I'm good ;)

I'm just chatting with you all though, not playing games ;)

Journeyman Geek

I'd consider a webcam for WFH too intrusive when we don't even do it on client sites :D

one of our guys got fired cause the boss could never reach him (and I'm pretty sure that's cause he was asleep)

1:22 PM

I mean, the webcam is nice to make a bit of a personal touch when talking with coworkers... but so far I've only used it for that once ;)

My room is too messy for random video calls

It's amazing how opinion can shift in a short time

outside of my aunt and dad all I hear about is how everyone can't wait for all these restrictions to be lifted, and so many are demanding it happens asap now

a marked difference from last week. We've become desensitized to the rising case numbers

1:49 PM

TIL that Access databases suck

thank you for coming to my TED talk :P

2:17 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (271): How do I deal with a client who doesn't respect me? by Jennet William on interpersonal.SE

2:49 PM

Good catch there, apparently someone put a spell on the husband and within 48 hours they came back LOL

they also have a solution for "STROCK", apparently.. wonder if that's anything like stonks? :P

Arthur Havlicek

@EmC SELL EVERYTHING

I had a few stocks before COVID. I still have them. OH well

from what I've read the general wisdom seems to be that if you're in the market for the long term not to freak out now, because eventually it'll recover. actually some people are buying stocks now because they figure it's cheap now and will go up later...

personally I just put everything into target date funds and don't look at it except once a month haha

I dont know, I think we're looking at a much worse version of 2008 incoming

gonna suck bad

3:05 PM

The Loop : March 2020

Sara Chipps on March 30, 2020

It’s easy to wonder how leaders, even the good ones, sleep at night. The decisions that come across their desks affect so many lives, jobs, healthcare, human rights. All of these decisions impact large sums of people and their ability to sustain their personal Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It’s hard to imagine how they can…

Do I dare open that? It sounds like they're killing things again.

You may be pleasantly surprised.

The abstract makes it sound worse then it is

imo worth a read

You might come away with a "you really should have thought of that earlier" sense, but that's miles above what we're used to

That last one isn't really encouraging.

tl;dr the story behind why they re-committed to interacting on meta (aka this post)

nothing new imo

3:12 PM

@EmC Oh, lovely. I lived through that story :P Don't need to read it again

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell Its cautiously positive, though the more cynical side of me is mentally prepared for more uglness.

the more cynical side of me thinks my society is going to collapse and friends of mine will be left to die in agony because hospitals are full so I'll take stack drama any day now

I'll ponder reading it over dinner, bbl

Journeyman Geek

._.

THat's dark

true though

between several people in healthcare and several people with some really unlucky previous conditions my friend circle is about as cynical and scared as you can get right now and some other friends already lost their job and are looking at a recession to eclipse 2008 (which was really damn bad) to boot

Journeyman Geek

3:16 PM

Noticing a lot of folks looking for work on twitter (shame on their employers)

too dark? I agree, reality should lighten up and stop being so depressing

unfortunately it does not care for my opinion

Journeyman Geek

True

and heh

Onion timeline is overrated

you already know the hastily passed stimulus will be exploited for all it's worth

Journeyman Geek

yup

small example from someone I know. Their store has shut down, but won't officially lay anyone off before the owner can absorb stimulus help and free credit, after which the store company will declare bankruptcy

Journeyman Geek

3:19 PM

and heh, I am wondering how the state of the indian economy will affect my matchmaking chances.

@Magisch seems to be a lot of that :/

employees have been told they'll have a delay in claiming unemployment, but not to expect continued wages past april because they won't pay them

the current plan seems to be to get as much stimulus help as possible and interest free loans, to pay out the owners using that money and then to sink the store in bankruptcy

> The results of our “Through the Loop” survey also indicated that stepping away from our Meta sites had negatively affected the community.

no clue if it'll work, but for now it really sucks for him. He knows he won't get his next monthly paycheck but won't be able to file unemployment until after next month's deadline, so his first unemployment check is probably June

no crap

but a pleasant surprise this blog post

3 hours later…

6:00 PM

I've decided to stay out of it.

My bear hunt was too pleasant to waste the good mood on a blog post.

6:11 PM

ooh, dark mode for SO stackoverflow.blog/2020/03/30/…

@Tinkeringbell is that a metaphor for taxes too, or

@M.A.R. Nope! I went a real life bear hunt :P

TBH I would be more surprised about bears in The Netherlands than you hunting them

XD

It's actually pretty childish... but a lot of people have put a bear behind a window over here. Because kids aren't allowed to play outside as much anymore, so their parents can take them on walks and they can 'hunt' the bears. Count them, or hunt for specific ones...

I planned my evening walk online along the streets with the most bears, just enjoying seeing them :)

1 hour later…

7:37 PM

@Tinkeringbell wow

It's at times like this that I realize what a grim people us Iranians are

Morale is at an all-time low

Oh, I guess the people that actually need bear hunts to keep their kids entertained aren't entirly un-grim either

Or maybe not

I can't know for sure until I reside abroad for some time as well

And as much as this place sometimes sucks, it's still home and I wouldn't have it any other way

Yeah, homes have a tendency to muddle things.

@Tinkeringbell it's like they have a mind of their own

If left unchecked, my socks infest the room in about two days

Yours is haunted?

cool

7:45 PM

None of them a matching pair

@Tinkeringbell yeah, thankfully, they don't have teeth or claws

Very harmless spirits. Like a studio Ghibli movie

The only spirits here make you feel bad the next day.

I thought the Dutch were supposed to be good at that stuff?

Or is it just Germans?

Depends on who you ask :P

My Dutch brother is quite good at it... I know Mag never drinks ;)

Mag is a plant. They make their own stuff

I've almost finished Game of Thrones now, the books

This quarantine is really driving you crazy, isn't it?

7:51 PM

Meh, I've been forced to stay inside for quite a few years now

I never run out of things to do

Although, today I watched The Martian and I'm craving outdoors q_q

Outdoors is nice from time to time... but you better stay inside!

You still on a break from meta.SE?

I'm modding again

Chatting not so much, don't really have the time for it.

OK

Just saying everything is smooth and quiet now

And not there's much else to chat about anyway

People are like grouching tigers now. Waiting for SE to do one thing they don't like

Yeah, I guess.. It's just that I can either chat in two rooms, or chat in one and keep an eye on both this site and MSE... Chatting in two just takes too much focus away from work.

7:55 PM

You work remotely now, right?

Yep

All work from home, and it's probably going to last until after April 6th :/

I never get how you people get around to do that. I'd probably procrastinate the hell out of any future home-works

@Tinkeringbell That's too soon

This bloody thing is like to hit a million cases

@M.A.R. I know... But three weeks work from home is already a lot if you don't have your own home.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Take care

I've gotten do this thing they do with books and stuff

Oh, I will. My bedroom is nice...

7:58 PM

My bedroom is terrible

I'm partially to blame for that. Only partially

Oh, it's a terrible mess but it doesn't complain about it.

My bed is always creaking about it

Mine is a bit creaky too... but it's a nice bed :)

Anyway, gonna get some reading done. TTYL

\O

Have fun! I'm going to post some screenshots on Twitter, then off to bed ;)

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Mar '2030

The Awkward Silence

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