The Awkward Silence

12:53 AM

@SQB interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3046/…

Please be aware that a genuine crisis is always a priority, it is not about rules anymore. If the crisis is over, closing/deleting is definitely an option, but during a crisis...no. Definitely no.

I cannot make out if an amok run is possible because I lack the information, but checking it up and possibly alerting the professionals in presence of red flags is a must option.

Extroverted Main Man

1:51 AM

0

Q: How to know when to repair a friendship with an ex-roommate or move on

I am a now-28 year old male living in the US. I moved into a house with 2 female acquaintances and 2 unknowns in August. These acquaintances were in the same graduate school program as me. Although I never considered them close friends, we were friendly to each other. When I moved in, I did a ...

Extroverted Main Man

3:36 AM

0

Q: How to deal with a coworker who constantly double check all I say?

I work as software developer for a small company and two weeks ago we got a new colleague, he was hired to work on the same team as me and our interactions so far have been friendly, he is a nice guy, polite and helpful. I just now noticed that he always double checks everything I say. It first...

work-environment

SQB

4:28 AM

@ThorstenS. I agree that handling a crisis has priority. Usually it's handled best through closing the question and contacting the OP.

Tinkeringbell

5:43 AM

Good morning all :)

A J

@Tinkeringbell Very goood morning!

Tinkeringbell

@AJ Hahaha that may be just a little too optimistic ;)

A J

hehe

Yesterday, I came to know that my senior from college (who also lives in the same city) currently living in Amsterdam.

Just for some on-site project.

Dastardly

6:02 AM

Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?

A J

umm... what?

Tinkeringbell

@AJ LOTR

@Dastardly all of the above ;)

A J

@Tinkeringbell Never read/watched it. :P

Dastardly

@AJ WHAT

Go now.

A J

:P

Dastardly

6:06 AM

... Please ? :3

A J

Just for ya. Only once.

Tinkeringbell

@AJ Even I managed to do that

A J

@Tinkeringbell Even I managed to not to watch Star Wars for years, but suddenly got interest when I watched Rogue One just to kill 3 hours. ;)

Also, you're not much of a movie person, are you? :P

SQB

6:25 AM

@AJ If you watch the main films, please use the Machete-order: IV, V, II, III, VI.

Anything else will spoil parts of the story for you.

A J

@SQB I have already watched all of them.

SQB

Darn, too late.

A J

:P

@SQB I watched in this order. Rogue One, IV, V, VI and VII. Later I got interest in prequels, so watched them as well.

SQB

Not too bad.

The worst order to watch them is in numerical order. Too much is spoiled.

A J

@SQB Yup

And main thing is "I am your father".

SQB

6:29 AM

Hey! Spoilers!

A J

:P It's not TSR.

Mithrandir

@SQB the order I watched was A New Hope, The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Return of the Jedi. That's probably a non-standard order ;)

A J

@Mithrandir Actually, you watched movies with similar plots. :P

Dastardly

Big ship, it needs to go boom

Mithrandir

I think I'll watch The Empire Strikes Back next, because Yoda.

A J

6:35 AM

@Mithrandir Say you did that Star Wars watch you didn't. :P

in The Screening Room, Jul 16 '17 at 18:07, by Mithrandir

@AJ Star not I watched have Wars.

Mithrandir

@AJ I hadn't, but TLJ was playing in the theater, so I watched ANH and TFA, then saw it in the theater, and then I watched TRotJ because my brother was doing a SW crash course

A J

I completed Star Wars saga like in a year. 10 months to be precise.

I didn't see MAR in a while. Is everything okay with him?

SQB

@Mithrandir pretty much.

Mithrandir

6:57 AM

@AJ Presumably he's still dealing with his kidneys; perhaps he found a good donor?

A J

possibly

Tinkeringbell

7:33 AM

@AJ Not much, but I'm keeping up with the Jurassic world ones ;)

Mithrandir24601

@Tinkeringbell "As a Dutchman living 20 meters above the sea level, I will be happy to see you fail. I have full confidence in Dutch engineers, if given enough money."

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir24601 Hahahahaha XD

Mithrandir24601

Reasons why Worldbuilding is so good :)

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir24601 I really loved the checklist for writing a question over there :)

Mithrandir24601

@Tinkeringbell Oh yeah, those are really good

They've got a few posts that analyse what makes a good question/answer and it's really interesting

Tinkeringbell

7:38 AM

I'll dive into it tonight ;)

Maybe the only thing about that checklist is that I found it through help/on-topic. It would be even nicer if it was like prominent on the ask question page somewhere ;)

Mithrandir

That's a very difficult page to customize

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir I know ;)

Mithrandir

I mean, it's been done, but it needs dev access

Dastardly

I finally found what I should put in my "about me" section, I feel so proud.
https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/users/17201/dastardly

Tinkeringbell

@Dastardly Don't tempt me! :P

@Mithrandir Maybe mods should get automatic dev access :P

Mithrandir

7:43 AM

yeah that's not gonna happen

Mithrandir24601

@Tinkeringbell That's one to ping @HDE226868 about :P

Mithrandir

@Mithrandir24601 s/HDE/Adam Lear

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir24601 Nah, I already know that that's not something they can do :P Also, it has a link to help center which has a link to the checklist so it's not like it's hidden

Mithrandir24601

@Mithrandir Yeah, but HDE is the mod on Worldbuilding, who can actually talk to the Worldbuilding mods about it. Then they can be responsible for having to ask the devs instead of me

Cashbee

@Dastardly lol nice

A J

8:22 AM

@Tinkeringbell The first Hollywood movie I watched was from this franchise. Jurassic Park 3.

Dastardly

I think the first video I saw was an episode of Pingu

Magisch

@Dastardly you dastardly....

Dastardly

Another one bites the dust

SmokeDetector

8:39 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: How to set personal hygiene standards with my boyfriend? by Loriz on interpersonal.SE

Cashbee

9:25 AM

can we close this before more answers pour in? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/15695/8077

Imus

@Cashbee done :)

Magisch

my 2c on the relationship money trouble question: they'll end up separating sooner rather then later

that's not an answer though and ot for a comment :P

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: How to politely reject a rude advice giver at the gym that won't take it well anyways

Problematic So, there is that (big) guy at the gym, he is 210 cm and 105Kg which make him looks like a mountain but he seems to not understand that not everyone is naturally as big as he is. I would not ask the question if it was only about me but yesterday was infernal. He use a lot of space ...

conflict-aversion difficult-people

Cashbee

yeah those are my two cents as well. professional couple therapy is in order if they want to succeed.

Imus

@Magisch I donno. It depens on how they communicate their actual goals to each other (possibly through a neutral third party). At least she's looking for advice on how to do just that so there's still hope :)

<- forever the optimist

Cashbee

9:39 AM

it just sounds like he is seeing her as his mistress or something. not equals at all

Magisch

It reads like he doesn't respect her one bit

Cashbee

no empathy

Magisch

micromanaging her expenses while offering no such accountability. going back on promises. patronizing to hell and back and then denying responsibility when it comes to walking the walk instead of just condescending

doesn't sound like a relationship, more like continous emotional and financial abuse

Tinkeringbell

@ExtrovertedMainMan Hah, we already have it's counterpart: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/3682/1599

Cashbee

@Tinkeringbell haha lol

@Tinkeringbell also, "how should I react to these situations?" really?

Tinkeringbell

9:46 AM

@Cashbee Oooold question ;)

Cashbee

yeah i saw

Magisch

I feel bad for the OP of that question

seems like she's in a bad place

Dastardly

10:14 AM

As much as I'm all for having separate accounts in a partnership/mariage and I kinda like "traditional" family values. The situation she is in really makes me rethink my views on this particular subject.

It seems like the guy really turned the situation to his advantage by being able to essentially force his partner to rely on him, which is the literal opposite of what separate accounts try to achieve.

Unfortunate really.

Tinkeringbell

Guys (and gals?) I could use some help with this one: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/15703/1599 ... is it an answer or not?

Dastardly

Lets see

Well it doesnt answer the question

It's basically a "Do this instead"

Which is fine in concordance with an actual answer

But it is lacking in that case

Tinkeringbell

So, it's not explaining why what OP wants to do is impossible?

Dastardly

10:29 AM

I guess.

Tinkeringbell

See, that's the part where I got stuck too :P

'He's disrespecting you because you have less money'... it's flimsy, but it's there :/

Dastardly

Yeah.

Maybe we should let it stay, and let the votes decide

It's not essentially delete worthy... maybe.

Tinkeringbell

@Dastardly I'll try and conjure up a comment, I think we can at least ask them to disclose why they are labelling the OP's husband's behavior the way they do, and thus also why a discussion won't work?

Dastardly

That certainly cant hurt

Tinkeringbell

You're making a lot of assumptions as to the behavior and character of the husband, like him disrepecting the OP because of the money they both have at their disposal. Why do you think this is the case? Also, why would there really be no way of discussing finances with the husband? If you could add more to your explanation of why you used these labels for the husband's behaviour the way you did, that would be really useful in determining whether or not this is actually an answer to the question of 'how to discuss finances with my husband' — Tinkeringbell ♦ 11 secs ago

Magisch

10:36 AM

@Dastardly This is what happens when there is a huge disparity and one person decides to abuse that

A situation like this was actually a part of why my parents split up

Tinkeringbell

In other news, my worldbuilding question reached HNQ :)

Dastardly

Hurray !

SQB

@Cashbee Could be edited to be on topic, I think.

Tinkeringbell

I never really decided what I wanted to do :/ My parents just married, without conditions, which means they own everything equally (they have just 1 joint bank account)...

I'm hesitant to think that's still feasible though, since I've met people with huge studie debts or owning their own business that might fail... and then I'd be stuck with half those debts too if something went wrong.

Luckily, legislation has recently been somewhat changed on this subject, so unless you specify otherwise, if I own a house before marrying, that's capital I owned and will keep, if I have a study debt, tha…

SQB

@Magisch also I think that question should be closed as "dear Abby".

A J

10:46 AM

@Tinkeringbell Cool! But I really don't know what that site is about.

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell Eh, I find intertwining property like this a recipe for disaster in any case

SQB

I'm often astounded by people who are married / otherwise in a relationship with a joint household not pooling their money. Especially in these exact situations where one earns more money than the other.

Dastardly

My (unpopular ?) opinion is that mariage is a "One size for all, fit nothing" kind of contract that is unlikely to provide peace of mind to partners, making a custom partnership contract is, in theory, way better, but there is always going to be exceptions.

Magisch

I solve this problem effectively by not needing or wanting a partner

Dastardly

The good old trick. Always works.

Ashwin Nepal

10:48 AM

Can confirm

SQB

Yes, keeping a bankaccount of your own might be a good idea, but I don't get the idea behind having to pay for your "own" stuff or one of the partners having much more money to spend than the other.

Tinkeringbell

@SQB I agree that it feels weird to me too to separate the money for stuff mentioned in that question (make-up, clothes), but that might just be because I grew up in a household where that was not the case...

Dastardly

@SQB It gives you a sense of independance, your money is yours, you can do anything with it, no one's gonna judge you and your partner can't be angry about you having "unreasonable expenses"

Imus

@Dastardly Still going to be judged for buying a 2m tall teddy bear though ...

SQB

@Dastardly And I get that. But all examples I've seen so far (not just this one) led to one of the partners having little or no money left after paying their share of the joint costs, while the other one having money to burn.

Agreeing to have a certain amount of spending money, just like an allowance when you were a kid, that I can understand.

Dastardly

10:55 AM

@SQB I feel like such situations can be caused by two things : Bad equity or one person just doesn't know how to handle their money.

SQB

As well as the ability to buy a present for the other without them catching on.

Magisch

@Dastardly my 2c is if you are with someone who has a propensity for judging for such things the relationship is already dysfunctional

Imus

Makes me kinda glad my soon to be wife earns more than I do :)

SQB

I've only seen the former so far, bad equity.

Dastardly

@Magisch Yeah probably ! :D

Tinkeringbell

10:56 AM

@JaneDoe1337 Hi :) We're discussing your question right now, feel free to chime in ;)

(Although it's mostly opinions ;) )

JaneDoe1337

Interesting to see my question being discussed :) I wanted to ask your opinion on it either needing to be cleaned up or closed completely, as most people seem to be giving advice on the situation and not on the actual question, how to counter the arguments without escalating. There are a few answers that I do think are valuable though, which is why I'm doubting if it should be closed.

Magisch

@JaneDoe1337 You're getting a lot of frame challenges

JaneDoe1337

I have a tendency to over-explain when asking questions, so it might be my backstory causing that.

Magisch

That is people challenging the framing of your question (that you want to argue back instead of leaving / insisting on couple's therapy)

SQB

I actually voted to close, since while you're not asking for advice, it seems to devolve into that.

JaneDoe1337

10:58 AM

Yes I agree on that SQB

@Magisch I guess that hits a grey area for IPS though right? :) Is it allowed?

Dastardly

If we boil the question down, I think we can get to a satisfactory question : "How to discuss expenses and money with your SO ?" or something like that.

SQB

Also, were I to give advice, two things you wrote trouble me. "I've also lost trust in basically anything he promises by now" and "[...] not what we agreed upon". I think those might point to an underlying problem.

JaneDoe1337

@Dastardly yes, that might be good idea.

Imus

Same as SQB. It seems your SO either doesn't realise how big the disparity between your incomes actually is, or he chooses to ignore it to get his way anyway (I hope it's just the former)

Magisch

@JaneDoe1337 Afaik yes.

I was gonna write an answer but while writing it I realized I was just telling you the relationship is doomed and that it might be better to cut your losses. Not really an answer to what you were asking for, however

SQB

11:03 AM

Hm. I think I may be able to formulate an answer that stays on topic, however it would fail on our "back it up" rule.

JaneDoe1337

@Imus I certainly hope it's the former as well. The signals I get from him are very confusing. Sometimes he does stick to agreements/promises, other times he just throws them out.

@SQB please try! :)

Magisch

@JaneDoe1337 Looks a lot like emotional abuse and gaslighting from the outside

Dastardly

If I was to give financial advice I would say : Act like he is not there financially, buy only your own food, your own clothes, your own gas, replace your car with a cheaper one if it's not in your means. Not only it will probably give him a good lesson about shared cost but it will help you deploy get some independence if anything end up failing.

Starving make people think.

Magisch

or, since you presumably both work full time, split the housework according to house ownership. He owns 75% of it, he gets to do 75% of cleaning / shopping / cooking etc

SQB

It would boil down to describing the effects of your current agreement on you and your financial situation: "Dear lover, I know we agreed to split costs 75%/25%, but I often find it hard to make ends meet. One of the reasons for that is that we don't always split the costs as we agreed upon beforehand."
Then renegotiating: "Can we find a way to share our costs that don't leave me broke all the time?"

That doesn't accuse him directly, which may be why he is so defensive — some people handle that badly.

Instead, you frame it as a problem you have to tackle together.

JaneDoe1337

11:10 AM

@SQB yeah he handles that quite badly, he's great at pointing fingers but can't take it very well. Which is why I like that approach, if I start the conversation with me not being able to afford stuff and me looking for a solution it might help him see the actual problem.

I very much like that answer, thanks

Imus

That sounds like we got an actual interperrsonal answer :)

Cashbee

If he really wants that you drive a more expensive car and wants to pay for the "upgrade" then sure. but don't let him use that as an argumentation to not pay his share on other things.
In the end ,I think sitting down and making a huge and very detailed plan of your finances.

Imus

I still fully agree on the joint bank account as a tool to reduce the discussions as well though. It works great for my fiancé and myself, but we're also using a 50/50 split so might be biased in that sence

A J

> A cowboy rode into town and stopped at a saloon for a drink. Unfortunately, the locals always had a habit of picking on strangers, which he was. When he finished his drink, he found his horse had been stolen. He went back into the bar, handily flipped his gun into the air, caught it above his head without even looking and fired a shot into the ceiling.

> "Which one of you sidewinders stole my horse?!" he yelled with surprising forcefulness.

Cashbee

saying 75% - 25% generally will not do. Look at every expense and find out who will pay how much for what, so that it works with both of you

A J

11:12 AM

> No one answered. "Alright, I'm gonna have another beer, and if my horse ain't back outside by the time I finish, I'm gonna do what I dun in Texas! And I don't like to have to do what I dun in Texas!" Some of the locals shifted restlessly. The man, true to his word, had another beer, walked outside, and his horse has been returned to the post. He saddled up and started to ride out of town.

> The bartender wandered out of the bar and asked, "Say partner, before you go... what happened in Texas?" The cowboy turned back and said, "I had to walk home."

SQB

Also, by "renegotiating", you further avoid blaming him "you said you would ..."; instead moving forward and finding a solution.

Dastardly

Ive used a shared account with a roommate in the past, but we made the split on our income rather than our costs (so that it is equitable)

Tinkeringbell

@JaneDoe, so, you'd like the question to be more about the principle of counterarguing without upsetting someone that's easily upset?

Imus

@Cashbee That's exactly why I think the joint account helps A LOT. The usual stuff like bills/groceries/... are paid from the agreed upon split without thinking. Whenever someone wants something more he can at that point choose to pay for it from their own account. Which makes the decission more explicit

Tinkeringbell

Then we'd probably at least need to get rid of the 'What can I say to counter his arguments' that's there in bold

JaneDoe1337

11:14 AM

@Tinkeringbell yes, I think that will both help me and the stack most.

It's what I attempted to achieve but apparently didn't

Dastardly

@Imus and when there is something left, it pays for nice restaurant or holidays.

JaneDoe1337

As for the emotional abuse, I've heard that before with other issues we have had (or him and other people) in the past. I think he might have some mental issues. But telling someone you think they're having mental issues is a problem even more complicated than discussing finances I guess.

He's sometimes very 'blind' to things, not only to me but to his friends and family as well. He would act exactly the same towards his sisters or best friend ie.

SQB

I'll leave my answer here, up for grabs for anyone who wants to flesh it out and apply it to the question.

Imus

On our joint account there's usually not much left :p and what IS left we save up for bigger expenses anyway, like now paying for our new house and everything that comes with that

Dastardly

Then it means you manage it well.

JaneDoe1337

11:16 AM

@Imus so do you put an x amount on the joint account? And keep the rest to yourself?

Imus

yup

A previously agreed upon amount, which for you would be a 25/75 split that is automaticaly transfered from our private accounts

when that proved to be too little to pay for expanses with the new loan we agreed upon a new higher amount

JaneDoe1337

We have the joint account for the mortgage, electricity and tv/internet. That all goes 75/25. Maybe I need to suggest better guidelines as to what belongs in that group.

Tinkeringbell

@JaneDoe1337 I think if you want to go that way, it might be best to not include the kind of details about what your finances are used for, and what your financial situation is... (of course, that's interesting background, but that can probably be condensed a little). Instead, try focusing on an argument you had, what did you do/say and more importantly how (loud? soft-spoken? questioning? stating it like an absolute truth?) and how he reacts (immediately defensive? avoiding the real problem?)

Cashbee

@JaneDoe1337 where x is defined by the total amount of usual expanses, where the 25-27 split would be applied. (you put x into joint account, while he puts in 3x)

SQB

There are many ways to cut that. Either the same amount, the same percentage of your income, or leaving the same amount on your own account, or ...

JaneDoe1337

11:18 AM

@Tinkeringbell thanks, I will try to keep that in mind

I think I do the over-explaining with my SO as well. He has a short attention span so that might also cause problems. Interesting how much you discover about yourself this way!

Tinkeringbell

@JaneDoe1337 Yeah, often just writing down a question helps me think about it in other ways, and I sometimes don't even end up posting because I already found an 'answer' I want to try first ;)

SQB

A technique that may work in cases like these, is starting with the conclusion or most important point or question, then filling in the background and details?

Dastardly

If you tend to over explain things, make a checklist of what you want to talk about. You may even be able to give it to him before the talk

Imus

Quick note: since your car is probably also an automated expense you should add the agreed upon amounts for the car to what you put into the joint account and pay from that account instead. By doing it that way you think about it first, agree upon something (which he does seem to do) and than have it default to the joint payments. That way he doesn't have an easy out on paying anymore without wanting an actual discussion first

JaneDoe1337

@Imus yeah that's a good idea, we don't do that atm either

Dastardly

11:22 AM

It can't go the wrong way I feel like.

Cashbee

@Dastardly much to learn you still have my padawan

Imus

It helps a lot since that gives a perfect overview of your regular expenses and what you got left after that. It's preferable that what you put into the joint account is slightly above whatever expenses you got. That way you don't run into trouble when you made a bigger supply on groceries in a certain month for example :)

Dastardly

A : "It can't possibly get worse"
B : "AAH YOU SAID THE THING"
*Get crushed under an asteroid*

JaneDoe1337

I think I have learned a lot of new things that will be very helpful in starting and successfully ending the conversation though. I feel more confident we'll find a solution now, which is certainly good. Thanks for that!

Cashbee

@JaneDoe1337 we all feel for you and wish you all the best!

JaneDoe1337

11:24 AM

@Imus yeah plus as the amount of extra builds we might be able to do more nice things.

Imus

yup

JaneDoe1337

I should probably continue my work now haha, have a good day all!

Imus

welp, off to my meeting now :D I'll catch up later

heh, great timing JaneDoe :p cya

Dastardly

And just like that, they are gone

What a tale my friends.

Cashbee

now we can finally continue with that conversation

Dastardly

11:27 AM

Our plan about sunshine and rainbows

Mithrandir

ಠ_ಠ

Magisch

I can go back to cactus things

Dastardly

Like standing still ?

Magisch

Like retaining water as best as possible and also lots of photosynthesis

Mithrandir

And being prickly.

Magisch

11:28 AM

indeed

Dastardly

I just pictured a cactus flexing while concentrating on retaining water.

Like some sort of little athlete.

Cashbee

what a prickling situation

what is it called in english? a prickle? :D

Dastardly

A SPIKY THORNY THING OF PAIN

Cashbee

does "being a prick" come from that?

Tinkeringbell

@Dastardly I once had a few very nice cacti... but I ended up putting them next to an orchid I bought, and the orchid had lice and the cacti got infected as well :(

Dastardly

11:32 AM

@Cashbee I think it's the censored version of "being a dick"

But I might be wrong

Tinkeringbell

@Cashbee Ask (or search) on one of the english language sites? :P

Mithrandir

@Dastardly yeah, this seems accurate

Dastardly

Smarter everyday

The question is now on HNQ. Should we protect it ?

SQB

Yes.

ASAP.

Tinkeringbell

> Questions should be protected when they are garnering lots of views and newbies are adding "me too!", "thanks!" and possibly even spam non-answers.

Does it meet that?

(usually, that means 2/3 deleted answers and a few downvoted ones)

(link: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/…)

Magisch

11:43 AM

iirc we're not supposed to protect preventatively

SQB

I think hitting the HNQ should automatically protect a question.

Because it invariably leads to low quality answers.

Tinkeringbell

@SQB interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/q/3057/1599 ;)

Another interesting one on protecting: interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2214/1599

I think we still don't 'unprotect' a lot?

I must admit I don't ;)

SQB

226 questions.

Oldest protection date is April 12.

Tinkeringbell

@SQB out of 2043 questions on main, that means we're still hitting the 10 percent royally

So our percentage has dropped a tiny bit...

So, I guess if anyone has time to burn, taking a look at protected questions and seeing which ones are no longer HNQ or getting a lot of comment attention, unprotecting them might be a useful exercise? (Does unprotecting bump a question?)

Extroverted Main Man

12:11 PM

1

Q: How to throw out the group mentor in a proper way?

I am a part of an activity group of 10 members (in our case: theatre). We mostly get along pretty well, know each other for quite some years already, but have worked as such a group only for a year by now. At the moment, a split seems to be inevitable in the next season as the majority of the gro...

work-environment friend-groups mental-health groups

Extroverted Main Man

12:36 PM

1

Q: Relationship - dealing with different views about spending money (who should pay for what)

My girlfriend and I are dating for about 6 months now. We recently started talking about moving together. I really adore my girlfriend, but there are some patterns in her behavior (mostly related to money) that raise some yellow flags in me. I'm not sure if it's a problem more related to me or he...

relationships money

JaneDoe1337

12:56 PM

I edited my question, I hope this helps the answers. I'm not sure what to do with all the answers that mostly include relationship advice but still got a lot of upvotes though.

Tinkeringbell

@JaneDoe1337 At the very least, give them a heads-up in a comment. Something like 'Just a heads-up: I've edited my question to really focus on ... Please review your answer to see if it still stands or needs some editing to adress this point. I'm sorry for any inconvenience I might have caused!'

Cronax

@JaneDoe1337 questions like yours are difficult because they contain a lot of background information and this background information leads people to draw conclusions, which they feel are relevant to the question because of all the background information

it can help to make your question more abstract, by leaving out a lot of the details and making your problem description more general

JaneDoe1337

1:30 PM

@Cronax that is what I just did tho, do you think it needs to become more abstract?

Cashbee

@JaneDoe1337 maybe a small notice at the end of your question, something like "pleace notice that I am not looking for relationship advice, just a solution to my question in bold"

i did that in one of my questions, where many answers told me about what is healthy and such. I added "I am not looking for medical advice, leave this to me and my doctor." and all was well

sometimes the users need to be reminded to answer your actual question, not to 'solve' your life

5

Rainbacon

@Cashbee That might make a nice vlq comment

Cashbee

@Rainbacon you want to put this as a comment under a vlq-worthy answer? that pretty passive aggressive

or did you mean to first adapt it a little, like "please answer the actual question instead of trying to solve OP's life"

Rainbacon

1:45 PM

@Cashbee Probably not actually use the exact phrasing. But I like the sentiment because trying to solve the OPs life instead of the question asked is a pretty common problem here.

Cashbee

@Rainbacon I usually say "This does not answer the question "[insert actual question here]" - then flag as not an answer

oh and a downboat ofc ^^

Cronax

@JaneDoe1337 What I'm suggesting is actually even more drastic. Condense your question down to just one or two sentences first, as an exercise, and then add the minimal amount of information that is needed to understand it.

@JaneDoe1337 In your case, this could be "I am in a Registered Partnership with my SO. In the past, we made an agreement to contribute to large expenses in a 75%-25% ratio, to match the sizes of our incomes. In practice, my SO isn't holding up to this agreement, which results in arguments. How can I convince my SO to hold to our agreement when he argues that I should pay more than the agreement specifies?"

My point is, that by explaining the details of how he behaves towards you, you 1) create a bias towards your point of view and 2) leave more space for people to react to your words rather than answer the core question you're trying to get an answer to

Cashbee

@Cronax but without some more information, the answerers have too little info to make the answer suited to the situation

I think the amount of backstory is fine in the current version

but you raise an important point; it creates bias toward OP!

Cronax

Having said all that, @JaneDoe1337 from the information your question provides, it reads to me like your SO doesn't understand budgetting, possibly because he's used to having large amounts of disposable income not to need to spread his money out

that might be an alternate avenue you could explore for finding a solution, try to make him see that you may have a little more in your account now, but that this is because you carefully budgetted everything out

Cashbee

creating a budget plan together is #1 prio in my opinion too

Cronax

1:58 PM

I should perhaps turn this into an answer, since I've been in a similar situation, though with a roommate rather than a SO

Cashbee

@JaneDoe1337 also, why does he know the balance of your account? does he have access to your ebanking (or whatever you use) ? if so, do you have access to his, too?

Cronax

another excellent point

Magisch

@Cashbee getting a budget in general is good practice

even if you dont end up needing it, it gives peace of mind

Cronax

@Magisch Yeah, it's a good idea regardless of how the details of the finances are structured, even if you keep 100% separate accounts and finances it can be a good idea to show eachother how you've budgetted everything

Cashbee

because if you do, you can make the same point as he does. "But you have still € X in your account, so you can pay it too

Cronax

2:01 PM

although truth be told, my opinion is based on very limited experience, since I've 'only' experienced life with a roommate rather than a full-on SO

Cashbee

@Cronax you should be careful then, but it is still possible to find some good tips that apply to a registered partnership too

just be careful that you answer her actual question ;)

Cronax

@Cashbee it's definitely a thin line, which is why I'm such a firm believer in showing clearly what context your answer is from

although in this case, my answer would have to be a borderline frame challenge

Cashbee

@Cronax which is fine because the wording of her question ("What can I say to counter his, in my eyes, unfair arguments without it turning into a fight?") does not leave room for much. You shouldn't respond to his arguments but instead create a whole new discussion (about budget etc)

@JaneDoe1337 since you reveal that you are Dutch ("Geregistreerd Partnerschap"), do you think you can change the tag europe to netherlands ?

Cronax

@Cashbee Reconsidering the whole thing, I think that the amount of background in the question is fine, but not for the question the OP ends up asking in practice. If she just wants to know 'how do I argue with him' then that's a different question, and doesn't really require all the context since the answer is "tell him to stick to the agreement, it was made for a reason". She seems to actually want to ask "how do I get my SO to hold to the agreements we made about finances".

Cashbee

@Cronax agreed

Cronax

2:11 PM

@JaneDoe1337 Also, for what it's worth, while I understand and agree with the desire to avoid 'fights' in general, this is the sort of topic that's worth having a fight over, it's very important! If you can't come to a consensus on this issue, this will have a major impact on your relationship!

Cashbee

only you can't make someone do anything (with IPS and no manipulation). Instead for example asking how to be more assertive when discussing agreements made about finances

TheTinyMan

@Tinkeringbell Noooo, you can't award the question to the naysayer! xD SCIENCE MUST BEND TO OUR WILL!

Cashbee

@TheTinyMan is it time to have a look at worldbuilding?

Tinkeringbell

@TheTinyMan It's still HNQ and that's the only one that was remotely sciency :P I found it deserved more upvotes than the meteorite :P

TheTinyMan

@Tinkeringbell But...the in-the-sea walls! My brilliant hydroengineering! xD

@Cashbee Maybe xD

Tinkeringbell

2:12 PM

worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115597/46078 for those wondering

Cronax

@Cashbee I generally agree, but I confess to having a hard time with the 'no manipulation' blanket rule.

@Cashbee In the case we're discussing, I think there's a very healthy way we can help the OP structure their argument with their SO in a convincing way

Cashbee

@Cronax I think it's a little too pedantic too, but I see why it is in place

Cronax

just like we did here in chat

Rainbacon

@Tinkeringbell Too bad you can't flood the Netherlands. On the other hand, it makes me feel a little better about the future of the planet (but only a little bit)

Cashbee

#DownWithVaalserberg

2

TheTinyMan

2:21 PM

@Rainbacon Oh, we can still flood a lot of it ... just not ALL of it. Without malicious hydroengineering. xD

Cronax

Also, if you're really dead-set on getting rid of the Vaalserberg, a relatively trivial amount of explosives or even simply a shovel will achieve that goal, depending on your exact goal

if you just want to revoke its 'mountain' status, just shovel a bit off the top

and since it's really tiny, with some explosives you can just blow the whole thing away :D

Tinkeringbell

@Cronax There are more 'mountains' though that can't be flooded that easily (see the list I left in one of the comments :P)

Cronax

To my knowledge, the vaalserberg is the only one that fits the scientific definition of mountain :D

@Tinkeringbell I am constantly reminded of 'the englishman who walked up a hill and came down a mountain' XD

Words Like Jared

2:44 PM

I asked a question (https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/15381/im-literal-how-can-i-understand-what-is-meant).
It was closed.
I was told to come here for help on rephrasing.
Here's what I have so far.
Thanks in advance!

How can I determine what people mean and not what they say?

I know how to understand what people say (I think). The problem is understanding their meaning when it disagrees with what they say.

They'll say something. Their words will be clear. I will accept that meaning. Later, they'll contradict their earlier words. If it was written I'll read it several times. I'll agree with my original interpretation. I'll conclude they didn't mean what they say. I know this happens sometimes:

The other day I was talking to someone. He said something. He corrected himself. He said he didn't use the ri…

Tinkeringbell

@Cronax That doesn't say anything to me :/

@WordsLikeJared Yay! You found it :) good, because I know sphennimgs is quite busy at the moment ;)

Cronax

@WordsLikeJared That sounds like a very hard thing to analyze when we don't have concrete examples, since we can't see if the issue is with your understanding or with them being irrational

@Tinkeringbell it's a Hugh Grant romance movie from when I was young, it was one of those very popular movies at the time nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

As with most Hugh Grant movies it's not particularly good but the long title and the concept stuck with me

Cashbee

hi @WordsLikeJared. while your new question is better formulated overall and not so broad as before, it is an intrapersonal question. You could maybe rephrase your question into something like "How can I ask people what they mean". But then you would have to say why you think saying "What do you mean?" does not work.

Rainbacon

@Cashbee What about this question makes you think it is intrapersonal rather than interpersonal?

Words Like Jared

@Cronax Originally I asked with an example in mind. I made non-concrete because I was told: "Try to describe them in general terms rather than describing specific instances. If you're describing a specific exchange you are making the people reading the question need to analyze the specific exchange and can get sidetracked with the particulars of that exchange rather than providing answers that are useful to you in general."

2

A: What I can do to make my question a fit for this site?

Part of the reason your question was closed is because it's not well constructed. It's hard to see how all the sections fall together to create a cohesive single specific question. I'd break your question down to 3 parts and the title, and while they're all loosely related they don't support each...

Cashbee

2:59 PM

@Rainbacon getting better at understanding what people mean is something you do yourself. It's like how can I get better at accepting that I am uncool. Actually as I'm writing this I see your point. I may have jumped to conclusions too fast. reading people and what they mean sure has interpersonal aspects. I will take back what I said before.

Cronax

@Rainbacon either the OP (aka WordsLikeJared) or the other party in the conversation seem to be having trouble communicating. It might be that they are saying what they mean, but WordsLikeJared misunderstands the meaning, or it could be that they are saying something differently than how they mean it, and WordsLikeJared is simply interpreting (correctly) what the statement meant

following that logic, it's either intrapersonal on the other party's side or on WordsLikeJared's side if the have that kind of problem more often

SQB

@Cronax it does? Well, colour me surprised. I thought none of them did.

Cronax

@SQB I'm having a bit of trouble interpreting your statement, I can't figure out what you're referring to :D

SQB

NITS In The Dutch Mountains

►

Cronax

@SQB Oh, the 'vaalserberg' statement?

SmokeDetector

3:03 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, pattern-matching product name in body, pattern-matching website in body: Is it rude to ask someone where they are by user19009 on interpersonal.SE

Rainbacon

@Cronax If the other person is having an intrapersonal issue with communicating then there are interpersonal skills that the OP can use to communicate with the other person that there is a disconnect

SQB

@Cronax Yes. If you click on the arrow at the start of my message, it links to the message of yours I was replying to.

Cashbee

@Rainbacon exactly. The question should be clearer on the part that the solution involves some kind of asking what he meant. An interpersonal solution.

"How can I get better at understanding" is too ambiguous on that end, as you can see by me thinking it is an intrapersonal question

Cronax

@SQB TIL. Also, upon reflection, I was going on what I was taught in school, but a cursory search of the Internet tells me there's no universally accepted definition of 'mountain', so that argument goes out the window :D

Cashbee

from wikipedia:

> A mountain is generally steeper than a hill

:)))))

> Some authorities regard eminences above 600 metres (2,000 ft) as mountains, those below being referred to as hills.

Cronax

3:09 PM

Yeah it's highly likely that a bunch of Dutch scientist came up with a very specific definition of a Mountain that will let the Vaalserberg classify as one, just so that we can say we have a mountain :P

Trust us Dutchies to be proud of the things we don't actually have and/or accomplish rather than the awesome things we do have/accomplish.

We have a very real case of Calimero complex sometimes I think

Cashbee

@Cronax yeah your national football team sure avoided to go to the world cup

Tinkeringbell

@Cashbee Why do you think I want to flood the country?!

Cashbee

@Tinkeringbell lol

Rainbacon

@Tinkeringbell Does that mean I need to flood the United States?

Cronax

@WordsLikeJared I hope we haven't discouraged you entirely. Don't mistake our 'criticism' to mean that your question has no value, just because we're having a hard time fitting it in the confines of the IPS site.

Cashbee

3:18 PM

@WordsLikeJared to conclude: too many cooks spoil the broth, our "help" is probably not going to help you much since such discussions here tend to go deeper and deeper without coming to a conclusion. If what we said here did not help you, I would advise you to try again tomorrow and look if sphennings is here by then (he is here quite often, maybe tinkeringbell knows more about his current busy-ness?).

@WordsLikeJared From what I can see from the meta post you linked, sphennings has already put some effort into analyzing your question. So he will be the most helpful to you in that situation. Sorry that we couldnt help you more

Cashbee

3:31 PM

@Rainbacon pro tip: don't flood your own country. flood trinidad&tobago instead, you may find some blame there :D

Introverted Meta Man.

4:55 PM

0

Q: How is this answer not a violation of the "back it up" policy?

In this answer, the user doesn't back it up with any personal experience or any other information. I was under the impression that this required a flag from this meta answer. I did flag as Not An Answer and it was disputed. Did I use the wrong flag? (Not an answer) Or am I incorrect in interp...

discussion

Tinkeringbell

→ 36 messages moved to Trash

Froopy

5:17 PM

Huh. Forgot that bots were a thing here looks up to see meta question

Soo, how is everyone?

Rainbacon

I'm frustrated

Froopy

Why?

Rainbacon

My ci/cd pipeline fails when I check in code. Says that the credentials the build system uses to deploy doesn't have permission for a specific resource. Only problem is that it's using admin credentials that have all permissions on all resources. Oddly it works if I trigger a build manually.

Extroverted Main Man

1

Q: How to maintain friendship with guys after they're married?

I'm a girl. Quite a few of my friends are guys: I'm a geek, so it just happened that the people I bonded with happened to mostly be guys. Some of those friends I've known since 7th grade. Another important element: I'm single. No boyfriend at the moment. It's not that I don't want a boyfriend, I...

friends

Froopy

6:06 PM

@Rainbacon, sounds almost similar to TFS issues. :<

Rainbacon

@Froopy Turns out it was because I was trying to create a record set for a Route53 domain that didn't exist. The error message was just really unhelpful. It didn't actually work when I triggered manually, it just pretended that it did.

Extroverted Main Man

1

Q: While in a bad mood, how to tell others I should be left alone?

I have a problem with my moods. Some days I am happy, excited to be alive, and others it's the opposite. Picture a sullen teenager who won't say a word, is negative about everything if they do, doesn't want to do anything or go anywhere, and can't crack a smile - this is me some days. While it'...

relationships family

Em C

7:26 PM

wow, there are (currently) 8 deleted answers on that tattoo question

Mithrandir

8:36 PM

→ 12 messages moved to Trash

IPS Comment Bot

9:05 PM

@Hamsterrific: I meant if your friendship was making their marriage worse at all, your friendship should go. Do you disagree with that? — Words Like Jared 11 secs ago

#15727 Words Like Jared (488 rep) | A: How to maintain friendship with guys after they're married? (score: 10) | posted 3 hours ago by Words Like Jared (488 rep) | edited 4 minutes ago by Words Like Jared (488 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

@Jon.G while I agree with the comments that it is not an answer, it also in no way resembles a new question. — WGroleau 14 secs ago

#15729 WGroleau (502 rep) | A: How to maintain friendship with guys after they're married? (score: -1) | posted 3 hours ago by swbarnes2 (1736 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

Catija

9:29 PM

Curious... How does this answer the question: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/15712/36

Em C

@Catija their answer appears to be "stall by telling your brother God hasn't given you a design yet" ?

Catija

The answer specifically tells the OP to say that he will do the tattoo...

Which is exactly what the OP doesn't want to do... and then it tells him to become friends with his brother again, which he doesn't want to do...

How does that in any way respect the wishes of the OP?

Em C

I mean, it doesn't, I left a comment to that effect

Catija

I guess I'm just confused how so many answers there have gotten deleted by the users and that one has no delete votes or even flags.

Em C

I figured it would go into the LQP queue automatically. I haven't been very confident about flagging things lately.

Catija

9:40 PM

It's too long to trigger the LQP queue.

Em C

ah. I thought enough downvotes did it

Catija

Nope. There's a "score" assigned to each post as it's created based on a few factors... I'm not actually sure what they are... but length is a big one.

Anyway, gone now.

IPS Comment Bot

9:55 PM

@WordsLikeJared Excellent :D +1! — Hamsterrific 47 secs ago

#15727 Hamsterrific (103 rep) | A: How to maintain friendship with guys after they're married? (score: 18) | posted 4 hours ago by Words Like Jared (540 rep) | edited 41 minutes ago by Words Like Jared (540 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["short-comment", "+1"]

IPS Comment Bot

10:29 PM

saying on how he is going to react. — clark 6 secs ago

#15728 clark (209 rep) | A: How to politely reject a rude advice giver at the gym that won't take it well anyways (score: -1) | posted 4 hours ago by gnasher729 (3126 rep) | edited 45 minutes ago by gnasher729 (3126 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["short-comment"]

Extroverted Main Man

11:12 PM

0

Q: Response Type to Complex Texting Patterns

So I have known this girl for the entire semester, we have flirted in class multiple times and she's blushed whever talking to me (about once a class, so three times a week), so I got the vibe that she is into in me. We were in a study group chat together [for Intro to Engineering, we're both maj...

conversations texting

0

Q: How can I get interested in other people?

I lack social skills, because I don't find other people interesting, so I fail to start and maintain conversations. What could I do to find other people conversation interesting? (I mean people in general, not people who shares my interests and tastes). Note that I'm not asking how to make othe...

conversations

Extroverted Main Man

11:28 PM

0

Q: How do I tell my parents I won't be able to help them

My parents' health is deteriorating fast and it won't be long before they cannot look after themselves. We have no relatives or friends who could help them. I live clear across the country but the unstated expectation is I relocate and take care of everything, for however long it takes. How can ...

conversations family

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