The Awkward Silence

12:04 AM

0

Q: How to gracefully usher people out of my office at the conclusion of an appointment?

In my job, I have a lot of individual consultations1, and I'd like some help figuring out how to behave when these are ending. For context, this is in a small town in the Midwestern US, in an area where folks really prize "niceness" and certain types of courtesy (for example, it's quite common ...

IPS Comment Bot

Stacey, completely agree with your latest comment; @Samuel yes, you and your wife bringing books together on dates is a great thing - my longer-term, exclusive girlfriends and I have done the same thing, we bring books, phones, graphing calculators, and other weird things to our dinner dates. That's why it's important to consider that I'm asking about first dates or dates with girls that I hardly know - and that I am not in exclusive relationships with them. — D.Hutchinson 1 min ago

#9557 D.Hutchinson (553 rep) | Q: How can I tell my date to not use her phone unnecessarily during dinner? (score: 84) | posted 4 days ago by D.Hutchinson (553 rep) | edited 3 days ago by D.Hutchinson (553 rep) | Has magic comment

IPS Comment Bot

12:26 AM

@D.Hutchinson I understand. Main point is rudeness isn't an absolute. Your first dates using their phone during the date is not inherently rude, you only perceive it as rude. Many people share your perception (I do), but your date may not, so it's best not to assume they do. If they unintentionally do something you find rude wouldn't you be less mad about it than if it was intentional? So why not find out before reacting to the perceived slight? This is a fundamental way to approach situations for people who find themselves offended. It doesn't negate your feelings or these answers. — Samuel 52 secs ago

#9557 Samuel (101 rep) | Q: How can I tell my date to not use her phone unnecessarily during dinner? (score: 84) | posted 4 days ago by D.Hutchinson (553 rep) | edited 3 days ago by D.Hutchinson (553 rep) | Has magic comment

Jenna Sloan

@Pseudohuman Hello?

Pseudohuman

@JennaSloan Hello, human.

Hey

Hay?

Sup

12:37 AM

Hay is for horses.

Jenna Sloan

I don't think I've ever seen a horse eat hay

I thought horses ate carrots, oats, and corn

Catija

12:56 AM

Hay is a lot of what horses eat. thespruce.com/what-horses-eat-that-keep-them-healthy-1886504

Note, "hay" is not "straw"... they're different.

thesecretmaster

@Pseudohuman What do you do?

Pseudohuman

@thesecretmaster I am doing computation for the world.

thesecretmaster

Ah, that makes sense

@Pseudohuman Wow, you're complicated

Pseudohuman

@thesecretmaster I do not understand.

thesecretmaster

Neither do I

NVZ

1:24 AM

@AnneDaunted you were.. So why not let English Student do it himself? and my msg was a linked reply to that one. So anyway, I see now ES is a he.

D.Hutchinson

hello, peeps :)

A J

1:49 AM

@Mithrandir sounds fine

@HDE226868 Sure, we can submit our ad on other sites.

NVZ

@D.Hutchinson stop peeping.. :P

D.Hutchinson

@NVZ can you rap, freestyle?

NVZ

@D.Hutchinson I should hope so

D.Hutchinson

write something :P

@NVZ my question has 84 upvotes - 16 more and I get the Great Question badge :)

it's losing steam, though ...

NVZ

I see

D.Hutchinson

2:03 AM

what do you do for work, NVZ?

NVZ

Civil engineer

And you?

D.Hutchinson

nice

i work in a math lab and am teaching this semester

a fluids lab, to be specific :)

what makes engineering "civil"? are they large governent funded projects?

D.Hutchinson

2:41 AM

where is everyone :(

user15026

3:04 AM

@Catija One is food and one is bed, generally is how I remember

Catija

@Ash Yep :D

apaul

3:46 AM

@Catija how was the weekend?

D.Hutchinson

awkward ...

* uses eyedrops for snowblindness *

@HenryWHHackv2.1.1 are you also a comment bot?

Catija

@apaul meh

Henry WH Hack v2.1.1

@D.Hutchinson o_O?

apaul

@Catija Sounds thrilling. You should probably drop that and come to the Burn next time ;)

Catija

@apaul NTY

apaul

3:57 AM

@Catija NTY?

Catija

No thank you.

apaul

@Catija Adventures are good for you, and it's family friendly. Believe it or not, they had a whole section set up for families with crumb snatchers.

Think of it like a Ren Fair for the modern world.

But, well... Better.

Imagine going to a place where everything is art, and free, and strictly anti-capitalist. People pour their souls into creating great stuff and just give it away. Everyone goes out of there way to bring an experience, an expression of themselves, and they honestly want you to play with their toys and eat their food, and drink their drinks.

Catija

mmmm.... eh.

apaul

It's hard to explain... It's very different from the real world.

user15026

@apaul I like the idea of that sort of thing but it means large groups of humans and that terrifies me

Catija

4:07 AM

^^^

apaul

@Ash Honestly that freaked me right out too, but there's something there for everyone. Because it's all just a melting pot of things that people voluntarily bring, there's a camp for pretty much every walk of life.

For instance... There was the unicorn camp. It was pretty much just people chilling in heaps of stuffed animals and chatting quietly.

Catija

... I'm the kid at dances who always stood in the corner and sang along to all the words and never danced with anyone.

apaul

@Catija I'm the kid who never learned to dance outside of a mosh pit...

And yet I was still welcome. People fed me, and dragged me out to have fun, and let me do my own thing when I got overwhelmed.

user15026

I never went to a single school dance

Catija

That's like... the exact opposite.

@Ash I went to two in high school ... my dance experience is from 7th and 8th grades, mostly :P

apaul

4:15 AM

@Ash Neither did I, but probably for different reasons...

user15026

See logically, I know I could be okay and find my people but my brain spiders won't let the logic be the winner

Catija

Brain Spiders? Is that what you call the mean voices in your head that tell you you're not going to succeed at anything you try?

user15026

@apaul I found the whole thing weird and maddening and I was too busy trying to figure out my own queer mess to want to deal with that sort of stuff and besides staying home and playing video games was more fun

apaul

@Ash That's the thing. It's a party thrown by outsiders. All the people who didn't fit in got together and made their own thing.

user15026

@Catija the brain spiders are all that stuff you think that you know isn't logically true but your brain doesn't care and tells it to you anyhow all loud like it is true

Catija

4:17 AM

Every group of people creates outcasts.

@Ash Yeah. Same thing. I have those, too.

user15026

(aka its how I personify my crazy to make some distance between what is logically me and what is silly brain mismapping and weird chemistry

user15026

@apaul I get that but there is more going on for me than just oh outsider

D.Hutchinson

I ... love ... dance ...

apaul

@Catija oddly that one didn't seem to. I heard easily a half dozen languages, took a juggling class thrown by a senior citizen, and saw toddlers dancing.

D.Hutchinson

@ash you're nearish toronto ... I've been to some of the best raves in toronto ... they put New York City to shame ...

Catija

4:21 AM

@Ash Nah. I get in moods where I know I'm being stupid but I can't make the mood go away. It's usually really grumpy and complaining about things not going the way I want and I just have to sit in a corner for 15 minutes until it goes away.

user15026

@D.Hutchinson as I have told you before, that is not my jam what so ever

user15026

@Catija yeah I'd label that brain spiders if that were me

apaul

@Ash Me too. I'm aspie as fuck, queer, and a few other things. Doesn't matter. I have to note that you're the only other person I've ever heard describe it that way.

user15026

Brain spiders is like any intrusive unwanted brain pattern thingie when I refer to it

user15026

@apaul describe what?

apaul

4:23 AM

I usually say "spiders in the head" but it sounds like the same thing.

A J

@Catija I gave it a thought for Quarterly Answer Reward. And I think it's better to complete this one and skip it in future.

apaul

Creepy crawly thoughts that you can't really shake out.

user15026

@apaul anything that "isn't mine" as it were.

D.Hutchinson

you guys think asking how to start up a conversation with a girl who's wearing headphones would make a good IPS question?

user15026

@D.Hutchinson the answer is "don't"

Catija

4:26 AM

Hmmmm... I'm not nearly so creative. I attribute them to myself... just a hateful, spiteful, immutable part.

A J

I read a story titled like "Third Thought" in school, but forgot

user15026

Seriously I wish more people would understand that if I am reading or wearing headphones or what have you...i don't wanna be interrupted.

A J

I wear headphones to avoid unpleasant noise at work.

Catija

Unless the bus/coffee shop/library is on fire/about to explode/flooding/at risk of tornado... etc...

user15026

I don't care how great you think I am or how cute you find me, I have made it obvious I am distancing myself from interaction, respect that.

user15026

4:28 AM

@Catija oh yeah, that's different. If my safety or others is not at stake, kindly fuck off, as it were.

apaul

@Ash They had that too. Silent disco. Headphones that you could check out for free that would light up to show which channel you were on.

user15026

@apaul okay, I would like that I think

A J

@Catija This is a rare case as I really don't go to coffee shops because I can make one at home. :P

apaul

@Ash Like I would be bobbing my head to a beat and notice other folks walking around bobbing to the same thing. It was pretty cool.

A J

And flooding and tornado is like dinosaurs. You never see them

user15026

4:30 AM

@AJ there have been a number of tornadoes near here I grew up.

D.Hutchinson

hmm ... I wonder, though ... because I wouldn't really mind if a girl got my attention to talk to me, if I had my headphones on in a coffee shop ... @ash

user15026

@apaul that is neat!

D.Hutchinson

and if there's no clear "fuck off" vibe either ...

user15026

@D.Hutchinson trust me on this one. It's rude and invasive and bypasses any idea of respectful boundaries.

apaul

And... Where else do people invite you to ride their dragon?

user15026

4:32 AM

@D.Hutchinson the headphones are the fuck off vibe, friend

user15026

@apaul dragon?

apaul

@Ash yuppp

D.Hutchinson

... I am not giving a "fuck off" vibe, when I'm wearing headphones, though ...

I'm open to talking, it depends on that person and their vibe ...

apaul

It was like a fire breathing Mad Max parade float, with a steel ring hanging from its neck that aerialists performed on.

But if you needed a ride, you could just hop on, like a trolley.

A J

@Ash It rarely rains where I live so flooding and tornado is a rare thing.

user15026

4:36 AM

@AJ oh yeah, it would be for sure!

user15026

@D.Hutchinson good for you, I guess.

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: How do I ask what exactly I was doing wrong after someone has reached out to tell me I came off creepy?

I don't have the best social awareness, though I try to compensate, so occasionally after a party, or just time around people, a friend will message me to let me know that I was coming off creepy around someone. I consider this a good thing, the issue is that I can't usually work out what it was...

awkward-situations social-event parties

user15026

@apaul that's so fun. Like so many people make Burn stuff sound great, my brain just gets in the way so far

apaul

@Ash Take the leap of faith... I did. It was definitely one of those things I'll remember forever.

Adventures are scary, they're supposed to be, wouldn't be exciting if they weren't. If that makes any sense...

IPS Comment Bot

@Kinaeh How do you determine Alice's feelings were just because she is older and not some other considerations? Is this something she stated? — chux 1 min ago

#9705 chux (101 rep) | Q: How to tell an older colleague that they are not superior to me? (score: 19) | posted 19 hours ago by Kinaeh (316 rep) | edited 11 hours ago by Jess K. (7602 rep) | Has magic comment

user15026

4:41 AM

@apaul oh it does, I just also know that right now, it would reduce me to a nonfunctional mess and would be not enjoyable because I am not at that spot yet. Maybe someday.

apaul

@Ash Oh, believe me... I was a non-functional mess at a few points over the weekend. Still completely worth the life experience.

Like every good story has ups and downs. If it's all squishy and nice, it's not an interesting story, right?

user15026

I get what you are trying to say and trust me, I agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that right now, it would not be a good idea for me.

user15026

That isn't me saying I won't ever try, because I am a constant work in progress and constantly challenging myself, but this is just not a thing I am ready for yet.

D.Hutchinson

@ash I find it interesting that I very gently told you that I'm into bars and clubs here in New York, while noting that raves in Toronto are awesome, without ever pushing my agenda onto you, yet you respond in a very curt manner. Yet, here apaul has been persistently pushing his partying agenda onto you, several times now, and you are explaining to him with such patience why you wouldn't be into that scene.

apaul

Like I learned the comfortable wonderfulness of wearing a skirt during the heat of the day. Got to flirt with a huge muscly married man, or rather he flirted with me, and thought I was gonna die at a few points. Adventure builds character, it's good stuff.

D.Hutchinson

4:47 AM

that's all ... no worries ...

Catija

@D.Hutchinson Considering that there's a huge difference between an artistic thing like a burn and just going out raving at a club... I don't think that's really fair to equate the two.

apaul

@D.Hutchinson Awww

user15026

@D.Hutchinson I didn't feel I was curt, I'm sorry if it came off that way. (also raves/clubbing and what apaul is suggesting are entirely completely different animals).

apaul

Honestly it's not about partying at all really. Just the joy of embracing life and trying new things.

user15026

@apaul I like the idea of skirts theoretically but my legs rub and chafe so I wear bike shorts underneath them if I wear them, which I dont do often, it's more femininity coding than I generally want

apaul

4:51 AM

@Ash It's all about the boxer-briefs.

I learned that too lol

D.Hutchinson

@Catija I didn't know that, actually - I thought it (burning man) was rave-ish. But still, no means no, I would think. Especially after having said no to the idea ... twice.

user15026

@apaul that's what a few of my skirt wearing friends swear by, I should really investigate that further.

user15026

@D.Hutchinson you don't have to fight this for me. In fact, please don't. You are just trying to make a thing out of the fact that I had more conversation with apaul and gave his idea more thought than I did yours. Please don't make this int a white knight thing. I don't need that.

apaul

@Ash That's how I got acquainted with the cute neighbor. I hadn't worked out the logistics of sitting in a skirt and he thought my boxers were cute ;)

Sorry, that may have been a bit shameless, but it was fun.

D.Hutchinson

I'm not trying to be a white knight @ash, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy. You said no, and I didn't push the agenda any further, whatsoever.

user15026

4:59 AM

@apaul nothing wrong with that.

user15026

@D.Hutchinson okay sure, if that's how you want to play it. I am not going to argue with you, because you have decided a thing and I cant be bothered to take the time to convince you it isn't true because I suspect you wouldn't believe it anyhow.

apaul

@Ash That was probably my favorite part. Being able to fly the freak flag in a community that wasn't only accepting, but encouraging.

user15026

You talk about me not respecting you, meanwhile you are trying to poke at my armour to find the tender bits and I am not interested.

apaul

One of my friends rocked his fur suit and got a never ending stream of hugs and high fives.

user15026

@apaul heck yes. That sounds like a badass experience and I am so glad you got to have it. I like hearing about it, and maybe someday I will be comfortable enough for it. Because it does sound like I could find people interested in things I was also interested in.

user15026

5:02 AM

@apaul awesome! I am sure that made them feel super good

apaul

He was a happy pupper lol

user15026

Yay!

apaul

Sorry, I know it's probably a bit much. Just an awesome time and all the people I know who would get that sort of thing went with me.

user15026

It's all good :)

sphennings

@apaul Sounds like a good time.

apaul

5:13 AM

@sphennings It was. I can't even find the words.

sphennings

Never been to a burn myself but I really treasure the weekends where I can surround myself with "my people" and not worry about playing normal.

apaul

@sphennings "Normal" is entirely overrated. It's hard to come back to the "real" world afterward.

sphennings

@apaul Normal gets me a paycheck.

apaul

@sphennings So it goes, doesn't mean we have to like it ;)

sphennings

It's just LARPing with less fantastic costumes. Mostly it means I don't talk about obscure roleplaying games and the play parties that are coming up.

apaul

5:25 AM

@sphennings What what?

sphennings

Playing normal at work.

apaul

@sphennings Ah. I get what you mean.

Anywho, I should probably crash. Have a good one y'all.

A J

5:48 AM

@sphennings I really appreciate your help in rewording my answer.

It looks lot better now.

sphennings

Thanks. Glad to help.

A J

I think we should clear the comments now. :)

sphennings

It might also be a good idea to add a bit about "don't argue with what you are told, don't try to justify your actions. That will also discourage people from spending their time to explain things to you again"

OK

A J

@sphennings Thanks

sphennings

I've been there before, I was able to learn from my mistakes. I also saw a lot of people in similar situations double down and not learn from theirs. I wish I knew how to help people down the right path since one is much more rewarding than the other.

A J

5:59 AM

Oh.

sphennings

You get to the point where someone goes "Dude you were really creepy last night." I've seen too many boys go "But...." and attempt to defend and justify their being creepy.

Tinkeringbell

@apaul I had fun just reading it :) That really sounds awesome

D.Hutchinson

@sphennings the "but ... " part ... I would hope that that person is willing to listen and learn, the learning moment doesn't happen right away, IPS is pretty complex. The label "creep" is harsh, though, and for some people, that might not be constructive, and they just stay offended or aren't willing to listen, after being subjected to name-calling.

the person trying to teach their friend ... needs more patience in these situations ...

for others, "creep" might be enough and they reflect and learn quickly ... it really depends ...

sphennings

Unfortunately labeling someone a creep is one of the few recourses available to conventionally socialized highschool girls have to deal with unwanted attention.

D.Hutchinson

yeap, I know ...

IPS Comment Bot

6:13 AM

@chux She keeps talking about age (e.g. calls my female colleague and me 'young folks' and while talking with the male says something like 'that's the way it is when you're older', - and something like 'when I was in your age I did X' and 'I always respected older colleagues') — Kinaeh 1 min ago

#9705 Kinaeh (326 rep) | Q: How to tell an older colleague that they are not superior to me? (score: 21) | posted 21 hours ago by Kinaeh (326 rep) | edited 7 minutes ago by muru (103 rep) | Has magic comment

A J

1

A: How do I ask what exactly I was doing wrong after someone has reached out to tell me I came off creepy?

You should ask where you went wrong at the same time when they tell you this from now. You can say like, Oh. I didn't know. Can you please tell me where I went wrong? What should I have done instead of this? You can skip the latter once you're aware of what to do or you have a better idea. ...

Looks nice.

sphennings

I'd drop the "fit into society bit" There's a difference between creeping people out and fitting in.

D.Hutchinson

aparente001's answer is pretty good, I think ...

A J

Oh

D.Hutchinson

although he / she could probably develop the answer a bit more ...

but I agree that it's important to let that friend know that name-calling is hurtful and not productive ...

A J

6:23 AM

ah. a downvote

sphennings

@D.Hutchinson It's talking about a lot of things that aren't in the question.

A J

no sportsmanship there

sphennings

It reads as more about their personal experience with not liking being criticized than an answer to the question.

D.Hutchinson

@sphennings true, aparente001 answers it in the first sentence, although too vaguely, "ask in person or over the phone."

so, in terms of answering the question, yeah, it should be developed more ...

@AJ I don't really agree with asking on the spot, as you recommended ...

A J

Well, it's better to ask it when they tell you

IPS Comment Bot

6:30 AM

@Samuel While I understand your point, and I don't know every culture in the world so I cannot say what each culture finds rude, I would have a hard time finding a culture where the (1) point of the activity is to get to know the other person meeting them for the first time and (2) it's acceptable to ignore that person for long periods of time during that process. You and your wife reading on a date is different because you already know her. Perhaps there is a culture that exists, or two people happen to both like to read on the first date, I concede, but it's by no means common. — Stacey 40 secs ago

#9557 Stacey (4536 rep) | Q: How can I tell my date to not use her phone unnecessarily during dinner? (score: 84) | posted 5 days ago by D.Hutchinson (552 rep) | edited 3 days ago by D.Hutchinson (552 rep) | Has magic comment

D.Hutchinson

@AJ I think that's a delicate situation, at a party ...

this is a complex question and a really good one - I hope to see more good answers posted ...

sphennings

If they're getting called out that's the time to ask what did I do, what should I do differently in the future.

D.Hutchinson

maybe ...

personally, when someone has said something that triggered either sadness or anger from me, I usually don't want to explain myself on the spot ... even if they apologize incessantly and asked what it is they said that was hurtful ...

I usually need space and time ... before having that chat ...

sphennings

It sounds like a friend is telling the that they were being creepy to a third party.

D.Hutchinson

hmm ... I see ...

sphennings

6:36 AM

The situation would be different if you were talking to the person you creeped out.

D.Hutchinson

true ...

IPS Comment Bot

@Stacey You're clearly very open minded and worldly. I'll concede your viewpoint is more common than mine. — Samuel 2 mins ago

#9557 Samuel (101 rep) | Q: How can I tell my date to not use her phone unnecessarily during dinner? (score: 84) | posted 5 days ago by D.Hutchinson (552 rep) | edited 3 days ago by D.Hutchinson (552 rep) | Has magic comment

D.Hutchinson

@sphennings can I ask you an IPS question?

sphennings

@D.Hutchinson Sure

D.Hutchinson

I may or may not post the question on IPS main ...

if there's a girl in a coffee shop sitting next to me, and we're both doing work alone, and I'd like to talk to her, perhaps ask her out if things progressed nicely, how could I do so, if she is wearing headphones? is the answer "no, you don't try at all, because she's wearing headphones"?

sphennings

6:46 AM

Don't talk to her.

D.Hutchinson

I see ...

what's the reasoning behind your answer?

I guess it doesn't seem so "non-negotiable" to me ...

sphennings

To quote Ash "The headphones are the fuck off vibe, friend"

D.Hutchinson

But I don't feel that way, though, when I'm on my headphones ...

sphennings

Because to you a stranger approaching you is a very different interaction than it is for a woman. You don't have to deal with unsolicited attention everywhere. Imagine if you were constantly getting hit on by men on the street.

You'd get sick of it very quickly.

D.Hutchinson

I see ...

sphennings

6:50 AM

Odds are that they aren't there to meet people.

D.Hutchinson

I see ...

sphennings

Especially if they have headphones in. Headphones create a barrier between the wearer and the world. Think of having people knock on your door trying to sell you something while you're trying to get work done, or study for a final.

D.Hutchinson

I see ...

IPS Comment Bot

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — John ♦ 21 secs ago

#9557 John (3557 rep) | Q: How can I tell my date to not use her phone unnecessarily during dinner? (score: 84) | posted 5 days ago by D.Hutchinson (552 rep) | edited 3 days ago by D.Hutchinson (552 rep) | Has magic comment

D.Hutchinson

I guess I'm surprised at how non-negotiable that really is ...

good to know ...

I haven't tried ...

but I always wonder ...

should I? and if yes, "how would I go about trying" ...

sphennings

6:57 AM

@IPSCommentBot @Mithrandir It might be a good idea to modify the bot to not post Moderator messages like this. This one is formulaic so it should be easy to filter.

Remember that a women's experience of the world is very different than yours. So when asking yourself "How would I feel about this?" you need to remember that actions are going to get interpreted in different ways.

D.Hutchinson

yeah ...

sphennings

It was helpful advice.

D.Hutchinson

the tone and delivery of it had me taken aback, though

"it's a fuck off vibe, friend"

the "friend" part of it is condescending ...

I feel like her punching bag sometimes ...

A J

@Ash @Catija Can you please cancel the stars on this message? We shouldn't really keep f word hanging in starboard.

D.Hutchinson

she had no real interest in helping to answer my question, she saw an opportunity to bash me instead, it seems ...

sphennings

7:07 AM

They gave you a good answer from the perspective of someone who gets hit on in a coffee shop while wearing headphones.

It seems like it's a very frustrating experience for them.

D.Hutchinson

yeah, probably ...

anyways ... thanks for explaining ...

I appreciate it

sphennings

@AJ AFAIK there isn't a global ban on profanity. If there is any not niceness in that starred message it's the ", friend" at the end.

D.Hutchinson

probably wouldn't make a good question on IPS main, so I won't bother posting ...

sphennings

@D.Hutchinson Try to remember that this was already explained to you by @Ash.

A J

@sphennings It's not that. I just feel that it shouldn't be on starboard

sphennings

7:12 AM

@D.Hutchinson I'm glad you listened when I explained it to you. Many people double down when their ideas are challenged.

@AJ It will rotate off soon enough. I wouldn't worry about it.

D.Hutchinson

@sphennings I disagree that it was ever "explained to me" by Ash. She merely told me it's invasive and doesn't respect boundaries, without explaining. And then came the "it's a fuck off vibe, friend." That's a non-negotiable approach to answering the question, and I didn't think that was constructive. If it were that obvious, I would not have asked the question.

sphennings

@D.Hutchinson That is an explanation. You asked is it ok? She said no and told you why? You didn't ask how is it invasive. You denied her experience by saying " wouldn't really mind if a girl got my attention to talk to me, if I had my headphones on in a coffee shop" Which is missing the point.

Ash doesn't owe you explanations. It takes effort to figure out how to explain these concepts to you in a way that you will understand.

If you wanted to know why they felt it was "rude and invasive" you could have asked that.

Remember this is a common occurrence for them and it's exasperating.

Tinkeringbell

@AJ You can cancel stars too, you're an RO :)

D.Hutchinson

g'morning @Tinkeringbell :)

A J

@Tinkeringbell Ah! I forgot!

D.Hutchinson

7:24 AM

@sphennings that's the thing: I don't know that it's a common occurrence. If I did, I likely would not have asked the question here.

A J

ROs can also cancel stars

sphennings

@D.Hutchinson You're learning. It's a process. I'm trying to contextualize what was going on so that in the future you'll be primed to listen more.

A J

Not an answer

D.Hutchinson

@sphennings I tend to listen when I don't feel attacked or feel like someone's punching bag for the night ...

for instance, I listened to you.

and I listened carefully ...

sphennings

@D.Hutchinson When you feel you're being attacked is an important time to listen.

2

Tinkeringbell

7:29 AM

@D.Hutchinson Good morning :)

D.Hutchinson

Hey @Tinkeringbell :)

@sphennings I see ...

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings That! It's really an important IPS skill :)

because often that means you've pushed a conversation to the point where the other person feels misunderstood and frustrated

sphennings

One of the most important things I learned during my highschool years was when to sit down and shut up.

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings You self-studied? :P They sent me to a professional for that :P

D.Hutchinson

haha Tinkeringbell :)

sphennings

7:32 AM

I was arguing some irrelevant pedantic point when a teacher snapped and said "We know your dick is big. Now shut up."

And then I was enlightened.

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings ouch... :/

sphennings

It was a great learning experience for me. I still keep in touch with that teacher.

Tinkeringbell

I passed a test, so I had to go on a social skills study anyways...

Never hated anybody more than the teacher that did that to me, but only for a few months :) I still keep in touch with that teacher too :)

D.Hutchinson

it's also kinda hurtful, though ... especially when I'm asking the question for possibly the first time, ever ...

and quickly get a version of the answer that is terse ...

and unfriendly / condescending ...

but I'll keep note of this though, especially since both of you agree ...

Tinkeringbell

Basically, you asked whether it would make a good IPS question... talking to someone wearing headphones would be a violation of a boundary. Questions about deliberately violating boundaries (or how to do a nasty thing politely) aren't often a good fit for IPS: https://interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1395/1599

What reason do you have to talk to her, other than bothering her?

sphennings

7:37 AM

@D.Hutchinson Lets assume good intentions from everyone. A terse forceful response is a deliberate tool signaling that this isn't something up for debate.

D.Hutchinson

@Tinkeringbell hmm perhaps trying to ask for a date?

sphennings

@D.Hutchinson Think of it as the sociological equivalent to warning marks on a snake.

Tinkeringbell

@D.Hutchinson FYI, the question that meta links to was deleted by a community manager because it was bad for the site..

D.Hutchinson

@sphennings I see ...

sphennings

@D.Hutchinson Think of how you'd feel if men were constantly asking you on a date.

Tinkeringbell

7:39 AM

@D.Hutchinson Not good enough... we close questions about asking random people on dates...

D.Hutchinson

@Tinkeringbell I see ...

sphennings

Remember "How would I feel?" won't be a good model unless you translate the situation through the experiences of other people.

D.Hutchinson

@sphennings yes, it's happened before ... it's very scary ...

and I've been touched before by several men ...

Mithrandir

This site is not about relationships. It is about interpersonal skills. While the two may overlap at times, there is a reason that we're not Relationships.SE.

D.Hutchinson

so I definitely know ...

Tinkeringbell

7:41 AM

@D.Hutchinson Feel free to ask such questions in chat if you need help with them, but be prepared for some answers that are a bit shorter than on main ;)

We don't enforce 'explain why and how' in chat :P

sphennings

@D.Hutchinson Now imagine that you don't have testosterone and an upbringing that has encouraged you to physically assert your boundaries in that situation.

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings I have oestrogen and I can kick :P

D.Hutchinson

@Tinkeringbell I see ...

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: How to ask my roommate not to postpone chores?

We've been living together for about a year. Things don't always go well as they are procrastinating A LOT and since I am the organized one I always insist on doing things at the right time so that we both have free time afterwards and a chance to go to bed earlier. They often nap or have a bath ...

conflict-aversion europe roommates approach

D.Hutchinson

@sphennings good point - I tend to leave right away when a man is hitting on me ...

sphennings

7:43 AM

@Tinkeringbell I'm not saying you can't. I'm saying that it makes it much easier for someone with testosterone to get the same results than someone without it.

D.Hutchinson

@Mithrandir I have to think about that a bit ...

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings And I find that view of women disappointing :)

sphennings

@Tinkeringbell Which view?

D.Hutchinson

brb, guys ... need some water ...

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings that women can't get things done as easy as men, while in reality women often just don't try

sphennings

7:46 AM

@Tinkeringbell I have a partner who unlike me can commit to going to the gym regularly. I occasionally crank out a couple push ups when I'm bored. She has to work much harder to get results than I do.

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings I thought we were talking dismissing pushy people, not fitness advice?

sphennings

The reason I brought up being hit on by a man to DH is that it helps with context. Someone who physically imposing, who I assume they aren't into.

When I've had unwanted advances from a women it was trivial for me to push them off and physically assert my space.

That is less likely to be an option without an investiture of effort for the average woman.

I'm comparing middle of the bell curve.

Tinkeringbell

Seems like we've been talking past each other then...

Because it's just as easy for me to dismiss a tall, muscular man (although I might not do so if he's smart too and doesn't want kids :P )....
Really, it's very easy to dismiss people hitting on you. And when I'm out with friends I get really annoyed that they come running to me like little chickens to their mother because 'that guy is looking at me!'

Either ask whether they like what they're seeing and get a date, or use your body language to show you noticed and aren't flattered... it's really that easy.

sphennings

I'm glad you've been able to easily dismiss the people who have hit on you. That's not always the case.

D.Hutchinson

sorry, just catching up now: @Mithrandir I wasn't digging into relationships, though. I was considering asking how to start a conversation with a girl who has headphones on. but Tinkeringbell said that that question is considered violating a boundary and thus off-topic ...

sphennings

7:53 AM

My partner was chased out of the grocery store she was shopping in and followed to her car by a stranger who was angrily critiquing the accuracy of the costume she was wearing.

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings In that case, bar staff, bouncers, police... really, I know people are getting raped, but if we're talking normal people here, things aren't different for men and women... as long as we don't act like chickens

Mithrandir

@sphennings That sounds like a really creepy nerd.

sphennings

@Tinkeringbell The point is there are legitimate reasons why a woman could feel uncomfortable with strange men approaching them and asking them out.

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings That's not a normal person. That's one of the cases where you legitimately either use what you learned in self-defence class or find another person...

sphennings

Most men don't have a good experience to compare that to.

You don't know if a person is "normal" or not until you get some information about them. Stranger in a coffee shop hasn't done anything to establish normalcy.

Tinkeringbell

7:57 AM

@sphennings Those are both true. Although the first is dangerous.... I've seen people get freaked out because a guy asked them their number in a bar. What I'm actually saying is that I've probably just got the wrong friends....

@sphennings I wouldn't ask random people out in a coffee shop either. But that has more to do with how I pick my dates (I prefer to know them for some time before asking them out)

sphennings

In a bar, after a conversation, I don't see anything wrong with asking for someone's number. Hopefully by that point it has been established that the odds of someone flipping their shit if the answer is no is relatively low.

I'm horrible at asking people out. I'm only with one of my partners because her boyfriend said "My girlfriend thinks you're cute"

Tinkeringbell

@sphennings Apparently not for some people....

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