The Awkward Silence - 2018-01-22 (page 1 of 3)

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Introverted Meta Man.

1:22 AM

0

Q: WAS IT WRONG TO ASK: Minimum time for responding to someones answer?

I have been through this question a lot of time as if i wait keep staring too long it keeps eating my time if i also sit relaxed and not curious and impatient (as we all can do it perfectly) about it then it may be that the answer-er may get bored or something (sometimes i take almost a day or tw...

1 hour later…

2:43 AM

@thesecretmaster hello :)

thesecretmaster

Hello!

I read your profile - what's the difference between private & public beta?

(I don't even know what beta means, actually ... )

are you guys waiting for a certain number of users / questions / answers / visits on average, before you move out of beta?

thesecretmaster

Well, SE sites come into existence through a process on Area 51. Lemme find a meta post which explains it better than I can.

Ok, cool :)

user15026

@D.Hutchinson I think the standard is like 10 QPD among other things but I forget all the details

2:46 AM

10 QPD has been the standard for a while... I'm not a fan of the rule but... there it is.

I see ... so how long does a site get to stay in beta, while having "poor" stats, before SE decides to pull the plug on it?

Private Beta lasts about 3 weeks. Public Beta lasts until the site "graduates".

6 months? 1 year?

Oo

I see

thesecretmaster

Unless the site is a disaster, it'll go on forever. There are some sites that have been in public beta for years.

@D.Hutchinson It doesn't. As long as the site stays clear of spam, it will remain open.

7 - 8 years right now

2:48 AM

Oo interesting ...

There are a bunch of discussions on MSE linked from my question here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/303727/…

thesecretmaster

@Catija Any sites besides startups ever been closed? That's the only one I know of.

@thesecretmaster Sure. There were three attempts at "relationships" before IPS started... Lit had a beta that failed, too.

thesecretmaster

And they made it into public beta? Or got closed during private beta?

@Catija ... silly question ... why do moderators (want to?) work for free for SE? is the hope ... to join SE as staff members someday? So that, moderation, is in some sense, starting with the company at the bottom?

2:49 AM

@thesecretmaster Hmmm... I'm pretty sure that Literature was in public beta.

I was thinking about this the other night and can't seem to understand why moderators do so much free labor for SE ...

When they have 60mm in funding ...

for instance, in school, free labor gets you authorship, in industry, internships get you job offers, but what does moderation for SE get one?

@D.Hutchinson No. I'm sure that some mods want to work for SE but most of them are pretty happy doing what they're doing. When you love the community you're a part of, you want to do what you can to help it... moderation is part of that. Some people also like the power... but being a mod is generally pretty... low on the power totem pole.

thesecretmaster

For me, it's just that I really care about the success of cseducators. I also just love the community and people who are there.

:D See, two people saying the same thing. :P

ah, I see ...

thesecretmaster

2:52 AM

Also, since cseducators is really low traffic, it's not much work.

I see ...

Many of the CMs were mods first... the newer ones. But there are only about 15 CMs... there were more until November when they reorganized and laid off a lot of staff... they're really not flush with cash... they're actually struggling. As moderators, we help facilitate the continued existence of the network and the sites that make it up.

There are over 500 moderators.

thesecretmaster

And some people are moderators on multiple sites

user15026

@Catija Lit, Libraries, Startups...before they made the "eternal beta" rule, there were a lot of things that didn't make it

@thesecretmaster Me.

user15026

2:57 AM

@D.Hutchinson An awesome community of like minded humans who make the internet more awesome?

@Ash Yep. I wasn't around then, so I'm not really sure what they are.

user15026

It's like any "passion project"

user15026

@Catija I just remember Libraries because I was modding it at the time

Hee hee.

user15026

and I was reasonably involved in the previous Lit proposal

thesecretmaster

2:58 AM

Also, on some site (like cseducators) the mods don't do much more than any high rep user could.

user15026

Also going "why do you do this if you don't get paid" is kinda...idk, rude isn't quite the word I want but like...why do anything then if you don't get paid? I like playing videogames, it's fun, I don't get paid for that....

user15026

Like yes, this is work of a sort, but shrug I like helping the network be a better resource for people

thesecretmaster

@Ash Do it for the hat?

user15026

@thesecretmaster I do like the hat

@ash yeah ... it's a blunt question ... but something I've thought of sort of deeply for a bit before asking ... I guess I've lived too long in cutthroat competitive worlds - in finance, at a math dept ... where people generally don't ever do things for "free" ...

3:05 AM

Great hat.

user15026

It's one of the few non-winter hats I own that fits my head decently

user15026

@D.Hutchinson everyone does do some stuff for free, they just label it differently

500 moderators ... wow ...

user15026

There're a lot of sites.

thesecretmaster

Last I checked it was 526? But that was a while ago.

3:07 AM

@D.Hutchinson There are other benefits to things than money... so we don't necessarily do it for "free"... we get benefits out of it... just not monetary ones.

@Ash 171 :D

user15026

@Catija Thiiiiis

user15026

@Catija Yeah, see, a lot :P

@Catija right ... that's what I'm getting at ... is it something analogous to authorship in academia? Is it ... visibility within Stack Exchange that leads to some leadership role either at SE or elsewhere?

Each site has at least two moderators... most have three or more. stackexchange.com/about/moderators

@D.Hutchinson The hat and the TL... and getting to see the inner workings of the system and help make it better.

Mostly the last one.

user15026

@D.Hutchinson Does it have to lead to anything?

3:10 AM

@Catija I see - that's actually intriguing, to see the inner workings. Btw, what's "TL"?

There's no path to leadership... they haven't hired a CM in years and they've lost four over the last year...

A great and magical place that only special people can visit.

@Ash hmm ... I dunno ... I'm at a point in my life where I'm searching ... so I currently feel that way ... yeah ...

@Catija haha ... that's ... interesting ...

user15026

I have other things in my life that are big and need tending to give me direction in life, it's nice having something that isn't just like work or whatever

sucks about the CM layoffs :(

I see ...

I haven't ever seen his age posted anywhere, that I know of... the Staff page used to have photos of them all but I have no clue how old they were.

Why do you keep deleting your messages?

It's really disruptive.

3:17 AM

Oh, I thought that was sensitive stuff

I can repost:

If it's publicly available information, I'm not sure how it's sensitive.

true ...

Well, I had said that watching the way Shog and Tim handle things around the network, I'd almost think that they are expert psychologists - and, at least for Shog, I was shocked at how young he is ...

thesecretmaster

If it's sensitive, one of the 4 mods in the room will probobly delete it :)

@Catija hmm ... I think it's posted ... I'm pretty sure ...

@thesecretmaster true true ...

@Catija although that could be his age at the time of hiring ... I dunno whether I was reading a page that wasn't updated in a while ...

And Adam's still in here for some reason :P

@D.Hutchinson Oh, you're talking about the SO blog from when he was hired... that's almost a decade old.

3:22 AM

ah, I see ... hmm ... that must have been it ... I think ...

OK, 7 years... whatever.

I see ...

Though, I don't see any mention of age there, either...

@Catija hmm ... I'm feelin lazy ... but I could try and look for what I found ...

I don't think it was the blog

user15026

I'd be shocked if Shog posted his actual age anywhere and even if he did how is that relevant to...anything

3:29 AM

Ok, I backtracked a bit ...

sorry :(

it's animuson who posted his age

user15026

Again, how is that relevant

eh ... mostly I just thought that the way Shog and Tim handles things around the network ... it would be surprising that someone that young could do that ... ?

Some of the moderators on SE are 14-15... I'm not really sure how age determines your ability to moderate or be good at managing a community.

I was a baby at 25 years old ... with virtually no life experience ...

user15026

I don't think age matters, we have young moderators

3:31 AM

I see ...

user15026

I have plenty of life experience at the age I am, judging people based on your own lack of whatever is never a good idea

true ...

@ash but I mean ... not just my own lack of managing an online community ... but ...

... there are famous professors on this site that get into a lot of trouble, too ...

so for a 25 year old to handle that ... seems surprising, I guess ...

I'm not talking about the typical flagging and cleanup processes ...

We're all supported... none of us are alone. You poke at one, you get 500+... The CMs are the same way. They don't all need to be perfect, they just need to hand a problem over to someone else if they're in too deep or can't handle it.

I see ...

thesecretmaster

Also, ability is more important than age

3:35 AM

I see ...

@Catija you mentioned ages 14-15, isn't that dangerous for them to communicate with adults?

thesecretmaster

Why would that be dangerous?

Uh... how?

Because that could be improper? If someone says an adult joke, for instance ...

IPS gets a lot of ... adult stuff ...

... yeah, can't imagine why.

eh ... it's kinda natural, no?

thesecretmaster

3:39 AM

@D.Hutchinson I think that any 14/15 year old who decides to become a mod is going to be aware of that.

You seem to be pretty divorced from what kids these days come into contact with... I assure you, that anything on the network that wouldn't be deleted for being rude/abusive/sexual ... they've run into before.

thesecretmaster

Also, dealing with spam or rude/abusive posts is kinda in the job description.

user15026

@D.Hutchinson wwhat why

@Catija I see

user15026

@D.Hutchinson 14/15 year olds are a lot more mature than you're giving them credit for

user15026

3:41 AM

@Catija hell, even things that are deleted for that

I see ... @ash

hmmm @ash @Catija seems that most of the IPS topics, for instance, revolve around ... sex, race, religion and workplace issues ... does a 14/15 year old know how to moderate such topics?

I guess it's more conceivable over at a gaming site ...

but for IPS questions ... that's harder to believe ...

@D.Hutchinson It's sort of a moot point since none of the IPS mods are 14/15... but moderating the site doesn't require expertise in the subject.

I see ...

Yeah, I guess I'm conflating moderation with subject matter expertise

Well... I don't... I get told nearly daily that I suck at IPS... so :P

Oh, it seems that Mithrandir moderates this site, btw, and he claimes to be 15, I think

@Catija really? haha

on here, or where you work at UT?

nevermind :(

3:49 AM

Um... When you say "moderate" what do you mean... diamond moderators are what I am for IPS... what Ash is for Arqade... Mith is a moderator on Literature. All users are "moderators" in so much as users with sufficient reputation get the abilities to help govern the site... but they are not the same as diamond moderators.

@D.Hutchinson Here.

I see ...

interpersonal.stackexchange.com/users?tab=moderators

Yeah ... I guess I am perceiving diamond moderators as having (at least some) subject matter expertise in the sites that they moderate for -- such as over at Academia, Math, Physics ...

thesecretmaster

And moderators on any site are chat moderators everywhere. For example, I don't mod ips, but my name is still blue here.

I see ...

3:52 AM

@D.Hutchinson They often do... but not always. On beta sites, they often choose at least one experienced moderator just because they need someone moderating the site who knows the network and how the moderation tools work... the adage is: One network expert, one subject expert, one chaos monkey.

@thesecretmaster on the chat.se server... not on Chat.so or chat.meta.se.

haha ... what's a chaos monkey ...

I usually aim for one topic expert, one network expert, and one chaos monkey... — Shog9 ♦ Jun 7 '12 at 21:13

haha ...

Moderator Pro Tempore

Robert Cartaino on July 27, 2010

There’s a bit of a leadership vacuum inside the new Stack Exchange communities in public beta. We’ve put a lot of responsibility on each group to take ownership of their own site. The Stack Exchange team can act as guide, but we don’t always have the domain knowledge to understand the needs of each group. As the Network expands, this stretches our ability to assure that each community’s issues are properly addressed.

That’s why I am in the process of identifying and organizing a team of provisional Moderators from within each community (about three per site, starti …

thesecretmaster

@Catija I dunno what happened to csed -- we had all new mods. We were very lost for a (short) while.

None of whom had very much network experiance.

3:55 AM

@thesecretmaster Possibly because there weren't any people interested in standing up for moderating who had been mods? How long has the site been around?

Shog refused to tell me which of the three of us was the chaos monkey, though.

blog.codinghorror.com/working-with-the-chaos-monkey

thesecretmaster

@Catija A month or two older than ips. I don't think anyone who had been a mod ran though, so that'd explain it.

@Ash regarding giving credit due to a younger mod ... I'd have to admit that I would be deathly afraid of talking about how to communicate sex issues with my significant other ... with a 15 year old moderator ...

so, it's not so much that I think less of them ...

user15026

@D.Hutchinson why do you asdsume you *have( to talk that over with a mod

user15026

mods are exception handlers not babysitters

@thesecretmaster Hmmm... I have heard of them pinging people who aren't on the site if they feel like it really needs an experienced mod... but I'm guessing you all probably don't get a lot of flags? Is the site pretty quiet?

@D.Hutchinson Why are you so obsessed with sex?

3:59 AM

@ash, I mean, in the sense that, if they answer my questions posted, they may leave comments and whatnot ... that prompt a response from me ...

user15026

@D.Hutchinson welcome to posting anything anyhwere in the internet? like you dont know the age or anything of anyone, there's a certain set of assumptions you are making

@Catija I'm not - but I feel the main topics that I could use IPS help with are probably sex, race, and religion topics

@D.Hutchinson Do you know how old I am? How do you know you're not talking about sex with your grandmother?

and workplace issues

user15026

you're assuming we're not all teenagers :P

4:00 AM

@ash that's true ...

@D.Hutchinson Then you clearly don't use our site at all. Very few questions are about any of those things.

I see ...

thesecretmaster

@Catija Suuuper quiet. 1qpd

@thesecretmaster Yeah, so probably that... combo of a quiet site with not having any existing mods using it. I'm guessing you got some help from the CMs? Who was your primary contact?

thesecretmaster

Pops :/

4:02 AM

@thesecretmaster Pops is great at getting new sites with inexperienced mods going... that's probably why he was helping you.

It's really shitty that they let him go. He was our contact for A&C, too... amazingly kind.

Very patient.

thesecretmaster

Yeah, he was great. I wish those layoffs hadn't happened.

brb ... need a chai latte ...

Same.

thesecretmaster

I think I'm the network expert now... which just means that I complain about lack of downvotes, watch review queues, and ask other network mods for advice about how to do things.

haha.

I've always been more interested in the network as a whole. I love moderating sites but I see it as a chance to get to know the system... what makes the network tick.

thesecretmaster

4:12 AM

I like to learn about the SE model -- how it actually works on sites of any scale, from cseducators to stack overflow

back ... @ash ... yeap ... say, for IPS or for Academia ... I expect moderators to be at least 18 years old, probably much older. but then again, I have very little experience with online communities ...

for gaming or other fun stuff like Skeptics ... not at all ...

I think IPS and Academia are serious topics, though ...

^ again, that seems to discredit younger folks, but I don't mean to

thesecretmaster

Younger mods can moderate serious topics. Mature young people exist :)

just more like ... deathly afraid ... to talk to a teenager about adult topics

@thesecretmaster true ...

That's your problem... not theirs.

@Catija I see ...

user15026

4:14 AM

@D.Hutchinson that says more to me anbout you thasn them

thesecretmaster

@D.Hutchinson Luckily you don't need to know that you're talking to a teenager because it's the internet

Half the mods are dogs, anyway.

@ash I would take that to be ... "ethical" ...

and "moral", I guess?

I dunno ...

What's unethical about talking to teens about sex?... you're forcing your ethics and morals on someone else... that's... not very ethical.

user15026

@D.Hutchinson I disagree wholeheartedly and think you are being incredibly closeminded and unfair

thesecretmaster

4:16 AM

@Catija One (that I know of) is a baby

@thesecretmaster I don't know what you're talking about :P

user15026

You're basically wanting everything to conform to your ethical and moral views, with no room for change

user15026

That sort of rigidity is going to cause you problems especially in online spaces like this

user15026

Although, I do hope that if you do someday find yourself on a site where you discover the mods are young or whatever and you don't approve of them, you still treat them with the respect that they deserve.

@Ash eh ... couple that with apaul saying something like why I was in the "teenagers room", and that he hopes SE staff with be keeping track of me and my motives, when in reality that Henry user, who I thought was a SE bot, just jokingly brought me in there.

so it was apaul's comment that jsut made me go, "wtf ... "

so, I was deathly afraid by that ...

user15026

4:19 AM

I have no idea what you're referring to and what that has to do with the current conversation whatsoever

when I only wanted to come here to try and see whether we could work on IPS skills together ...

user15026

Nice attempt to deflect the topic, though

@ash about my preferring to talk to moderators who are adults ...

@D.Hutchinson Can you please stop blaming other people for the stuff you're doing... you went into a room that claims it's for teenagers and told everyone there that you're a teenager... that is sort of strange.

3

user15026

@Catija Okay, yeah, then he brought any actions subsequernt ot that on himself.

4:20 AM

@Catija yeah ... I can be silly and not know when to be serious ...

and I regret that ...

but yeah ... it was a joke gone too far, with someone looking to capitalize on it ...

Blaming other people rather than taking responsibility when you do silly things is not OK.

true ...

@ash I wasn't attempting to deflect the topic - I'm giving reasons for why I would be afraid to talk to someone about IPS topics ...

You seem offended, and I apologize if I've offended you ...

4:43 AM

@Catija @ash I've spent most of my life learning technical skills - writing, math, coding - but only recently, say 2 years ago, acknowledged that I needed a lot of help with interpersonal skills. So, I went to a clinical psychologist for a while. And I learned a lot,

and we worked on exactly those topics I brought up to you: race, sex, workplace issues ... I haven't seen a therapist in a bit now, so, when I do want to work on IPS stuff again, I have in mind certain minimum requirements from the person that I talk to ... it even took awhile for me to even trust and open up to my licensed psychologist ... so it's also about trust issues, too ...

and I think it's natural to wonder whether one is qualified to be giving IPS advice ... it's not all that rigid of mindset ... and I certainly don't mean to be offensive, by taking precautions ...

No one on IPS is "qualified". Even if we technically are, we're just random people on the internet who are basing what we say on what you tell us... that's not of much value. We can't see your face, your expression, there's no way to judge the veracity of anything you say... any more than you can judge the veracity of what we say. If you need papers - someone with a license and a degree - you're in the wrong place.

... true ...

But judging people by their age... isn't going to do much for you... since most people don't tell you how old they are.

... and again... people can claim to be teenagers or grandmothers ... you still can't prove it.

... true ...

yeah ... I guess it's good to have the right expectations ...

@ash I feel bad that I likely offended you ... but I hope you understand where I'm coming from ... if not, that's ok, too ...

@Catija do you know of the classroom tool called Piazza?

5:00 AM

No

I see ...

be back later ...

user15026

shrug Offense would mean I cared enough to take it, and I was playing video games and thus not paying attention.

user15026

@D.Hutchinson I get it, but I don't approve or condone it, and I won't be the one giving you absolution, that's not my job.

5:33 AM

Hmm... Adventures in pot stirring...

@ash ok, that's fine - as long you get it, that my intentions were not of any form of age discrimination but more just wanting minimum requirements that I've been used to in the past, then that's great ...

user15026

It's nice to want it, but we're not going to give it to you, that's not how this place works.

yeah ...

user15026

Ultimately, you might find this place isn't for you. Which is fine, not every online place is going to work for every person.

5:47 AM

@ash your last 3 messages were pretty rude

Not really.

user15026

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just pointing out you're asking for a lot of stuff from here that isn't how the network is set up to operate.

5:58 AM

ok ...

user15026

@apaul I made soup today, that's pot stirring ;)

The way I look at it is this, @D.Hutchinson You've walked into an Outback Steakhouse and you've asked them to serve you Wagyu steak tartare. And then you're telling them that you expect to be able to trust that it is actually that, despite it not being on the menu and incredibly expensive to prepare. Ash is the restaurant manager telling you that your expectations are misplaced and if you want them met, you'll need to find another place to do so. That's not rude.

user15026

Does this mean I can declare it ice cream o'clock? :D

Sure.

user15026

Excellent starts passing out spoons and bowls

6:07 AM

... The thing is, if you force the restaurant to serve you and you eat it... you're probably going to get sick since steak tartare is served pretty much raw and it's not actually specially prepared meat for that purpose... it's just normal ... whatever Outback sells... meat.

So if you want something that will help you that you can trust, go to your specialty steakhouse... that's the safe, smart thing to do. We do better here with simple, everyday sirloins.

Jarko Dubbeldam

@Ash hmm ice cream for breakfast

user15026

@JarkoDubbeldam add cereal and then it's just like cereal and milk, right?

Jarko Dubbeldam

close enough

Am I still on time for the ice cream :)?

@catija yeah, that's true ...

that's a good way of putting it ...

user15026

6:16 AM

@Tinkeringbell You betcha. gives you a spoon and bowl We got lots of flavours and all the toppings you could want

@Ash great! Adds a lot of fruit so it seems like a decent breakfast

user15026

@Tinkeringbell there you go, you get how it works ;)

@Ash actually, that's my real life guilty pleasure summer breakfast ;)

user15026

Niiiice, I approve

At least make it frozen yogurt :P

6:18 AM

@Catija juk... No. It really needs vanilla ice cream or chocolate

Where would the guilty part go otherwise? :)

@Catija I read your subsequent messages - true, which means I can still ask good questions here ...

Eh. That was an odd thing for me to say, anyway... I think yogurt is about the last thing I want to ever eat... though TCBY doesn't have that same flavor/mouthfeel that actual yogurt does.

@Catija yoghurt is edible with lots of sweet fruits and some sugar ;)

@D.Hutchinson Of course... I'm not saying you can't... you just have to keep in mind that the people answering your questions aren't doctors or therapists... Well... some of them may be... but we have no way to verify their bonafides, so their claims are sort of pointless.

@Tinkeringbell And then it's not healthy at all :P

user15026

@Catija I like greek style yogurt

6:21 AM

I don't like any of it.

@Catija I said edible... :p

user15026

My husband got me addicted to maple cream top yogurt when I saw him last

Even the super sweet yoplait ones ... I think it's really the texture more than anything.

Though, I like pudding... but pudding seems more firm?

yeah ... true ... wow ... this was really helpful ... thanks @ash and @catija :)

@Catija yeah well if it's texture there's not often a way to save it...

user15026

6:23 AM

@Catija yeah, pudding is a different texture

Gotta go.... Too many people on this train there's one reading my screen right now!

@Tinkeringbell Yeah. darn... hee hee.

@Tinkeringbell STOP READING MY SCREEN

7:06 AM

@Catija new neighbor now ;) but it's fun again. There's still a crowd of people at the platform, the train is too short and I just hope we'll start driving again instead of everyone getting kicked out

Oh. Now we don't have a driver

This isn't going to work HELP!

I'm... going to sleep :P

Night!

@Catija sleep well!

@Tinkeringbell Happy Monday :) are you feeling better?

g'nite Catija

7:25 AM

@D.Hutchinson loads :)

Still waiting for a driver for the train

morning

@Tinkeringbell glad to hear :)

welcome back

@Magisch morning :D

@D.Hutchinson thanks I guess... Was I ever gone? :P

7:40 AM

You were here this weekend?

Oh ... right ...

you asked about my moving to Tibet :)

Jarko Dubbeldam

@Tinkeringbell eek

earlier there was quite a big delay from utrecht to zwolle

@D.Hutchinson hahaha I meant that even on the days I was sick I was in the chatroom ;)

@JarkoDubbeldam still is. Mine is about 45 minutes late right now

Jarko Dubbeldam

ouch

that's worse than at utrecht :x

ah, I see

@Tinkeringbell What does your employer do in that scenario?

7:42 AM

"please take the Intercity". Was what they were telling us at Amersfoort. When there's about 1500 people on the platform waiting for that Intercity...

Jarko Dubbeldam

oof

oh geez :(

@Magisch nothing. They wanted me on that project so they'll just have to accept the risk

Jarko Dubbeldam

well, at least it's not storming/raining/snowing

@D.Hutchinson I must admit I didn't really count all of em... Just counted the legs and divided by two :P

Jarko Dubbeldam

7:44 AM

@Magisch pretty much same for me, they know I have to travel a bit so they don't mind if 1) I'm late every now and then (happens like once every few months) or 2) work from home

haha ...

@JarkoDubbeldam haha then I would have turned around and start working from home

Jarko Dubbeldam

@Tinkeringbell should be a decent algorithm tbh

although you should account for one-legged people and walking sticks

and cats

@JarkoDubbeldam on a railway station?

Jarko Dubbeldam

@Tinkeringbell even on a railway station, cats have 4 legs

7:45 AM

I've seen more mice and rats than cats tbh

lol ...

Jarko Dubbeldam

well, those have 4 legs as well

so that's problematic

true ...

Jarko Dubbeldam

although I guess it's kinda hard to count those individually

@JarkoDubbeldam but what's the statistical probability of one showing there ?:P

Jarko Dubbeldam

7:47 AM

Depends

I think the algorithm would be more effort than it's worth. I'll stick to counting :P

> Besides that, we do the scope of questions we accept here about Stack Exchange.

Someone want to edit in the missing 'limit'?

@Tinkeringbell Hi and good morning. Sorry to see that your meta question didn't go down to well. I guess I kind of knew where this was going when I deleted my previous question on this topic.

(here interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/a/2401/31)

Jarko Dubbeldam

@Mithrandir done

7:58 AM

Thanks.

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