The Awkward Silence

There's plenty of improvements to make to chat in general, SE chat has seen little dev time for years. I think the last major change was how they made private rooms where moderators can be regular users too (the new TL). The only thing the entire network really notices from that is how moderators are shown in chat here: Their names are cursive now.

lila

1:35 PM

hi

Tinkeringbell

hey :)

CaldeiraG

2:01 PM

yep i see

something like reddit does

you can type a comment with the moderator flair off so to speak

only if you look up the profile you can see

Tinkeringbell

2:52 PM

@CaldeiraG No, no, the new TL isn't just about turning off a flair: meta.stackexchange.com/q/357905/369802

Mithical

@Tinkeringbell s/cursive/italic

Tinkeringbell

True.

lila

3:58 PM

/''ᶂᶂᶂᶂԓԓ°ζ‾

guess the animal

Tinkeringbell

Centipede?

lila

no but it's not that far away looks-wise, also this is aquatic animal

avazula

Shrimp

lila

correct, it's a shrimp :D

Tinkeringbell

Tasty :D

avazula

4:03 PM

woo!

@lila Snake?

@AJ shrimp

@Tinkeringbell Hmm

Shrimp are decapod crustaceans with elongated bodies and a primarily swimming mode of locomotion – most commonly Caridea and Dendrobranchiata. More narrow definitions may be restricted to Caridea, to smaller species of either group or to only the marine species. Under a broader definition, shrimp may be synonymous with prawn, covering stalk-eyed swimming crustaceans with long narrow muscular tails (abdomens), long whiskers (antennae), and slender legs. Any small crustacean which resembles a shrimp tends to be called one. They swim forward by paddling with swimmerets on the underside of their abdomens...

CaldeiraG

@Tinkeringbell oh, so a regular user basically

that's cool I think

I imagine in heated conversations people deleting stuff and whatever x)

A J

@lila got it

Journeyman Geek

4:13 PM

@CaldeiraG not really

more just things going around in circles and people getting angry at each other

CaldeiraG

ah I see

Journeyman Geek

but moderation tools, even room freezes don't work on mods

and well, mods tend to be stubborn and opinionated so it could get pretty ugly

CaldeiraG

i see

Journeyman Geek

So essentially TL is a 'different' type of private room, with the ability to kick people :D

then we had the need for room mods/ROs...

IPS Comment Bot

4:33 PM

Please do not cut examples, just choose things people are less passionate and divided with. To me it sounds like you get hung up on the word a bit. The essence seems to be: sometimes people choose a nice description for marketing purposes. and you are not happy with people not questioning certain phrases and feel like a constructive discussion can only be achieved if both parties are able to see through all the marketing, indoctrination and learned associations - because they are not seeing the other side/a complete picture? Am I close? I'd cut everything with the word framing in it — Raditz_35 2 mins ago

Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]

Arthur Hv

5:23 PM

Evening!

Tinkeringbell

Evening!

Arthur Hv

I had a fantastic productive day today. And news from the last few days, I'm on Keto diet. And it kind of sucks. I've set myself a 2 weeks target and I dunno if I'm going to make it

Tinkeringbell

First few days of changing a habit are always the worst for me...

Arthur Hv

It's also there is so few food to choose from, I end up eating everyday the same, so it's not going any better in that regard

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv Lettuce with different stuff? ;)

Arthur Hv

5:27 PM

I've had lettuce yea

But with only vinegar on it. Haha. And it's one of the few meals I still find enjoyable

Tinkeringbell

Anyhow, unless you want to eat Keto for the rest of your life, you're going to end up having to pick up a different (hopefully healthy) diet pattern eventually anyways... Keto can make you lose weight fast, so I'm not saying don't do it... but if it's this hard to stick with perhaps you're better off with a slower healthy pattern.

Arthur Hv

Yea I agree

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv I've had lettuce with vinegar only once before... but that also had some herbs mixed in. I never thought of asking for the recipe but I do remember liking the taste :)

Arthur Hv

I just needed to see the numbers decrease fast without dying from hunger and that's one of the things this diet does well

Tinkeringbell

Though it was served with lasagna and I don't like lasagna so my memories are probably also twisted.

Arthur Hv

5:30 PM

One of my best keto reciepe is cream, mushrooms, miso, and water boiled and mixed up

Was really tasty also

with some herbs

"Herbes de Provence"

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv My mom has some cookbooks that aren't necessarily Keto but they have meal plans for 8 weeks, at different calorie levels. She never follows those schedules but I did when they were on vacation and I had the house to myself, and even at a significant calorie deficit I was still feeling full all day.

@ArthurHv Ah, I think those herbes are known here as 'Provençaalse kruiden' :P

Those are quite nice indeed.

Mushrooms are nice too!

Arthur Hv

I will see, my mind is not set about going to that two weeks, but definitely I have to think about what to do after anyways

Tinkeringbell

We had those stir fried with other vegetables (and fried potatoes and waaay too much stir fry sauce making the whole thing drip with fat so it was in no way healthy) ...

@ArthurHv One day at a time ;)

Arthur Hv

I also discovered smoothies with red fruits. It's low carbs apparently but its also tasty.

Tinkeringbell

I have an excellent recipe for strawberry salad :P hint: it's also unhealthy :P

Arthur Hv

5:35 PM

How could you make such a healthy title into something that's not :D

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv Strawberries, chocolate sprinkles, ice cream, whipped cream... toss it all in a bowl and it's a salad :P

You could toss in other fruit too :D

Arthur Hv

Hahaha

Tinkeringbell

I like adding different sorts of berries :)

But smoothies are very nice yes!

(Fruit ones. I'm not big on the vegetable ones).

Arthur Hv

Do you think I could add the vegetarian stack exchange about a diet plan?

ask*

It might not be in the site guidelines idk

Tinkeringbell

Eh, usually the sites don't do recommendations like that (I know cooking doesn't).

Arthur Hv

5:39 PM

There is some vegan food I'd really like to try but never found

Tinkeringbell

Though fitness has quite a few questions on keto: fitness.stackexchange.com/search?q=keto

Arthur Hv

Have you heard about seitan ?

Tinkeringbell

I think I've seen the name once or twice, but I have never tried it :)

vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/a/1736/1390 < That actually may be interesting, as it's not exactly a diet plan but does a good job of listing a few things you may actually eat and some things to avoid?

Arthur Hv

Nice, thanks

Well I just learned I'm doing it partly wrong actually

Whatever, I did loose weight tho

"TL;DR No, it is not healthy for a vegetarian to follow a ketogenic diet.¨

Tinkeringbell

I thought the TL;DR was that a prolonged ketogenic diet was bad for everyone, whether you're a vegetarian or not?

Arthur Hv

5:46 PM

No, it's also we rely too much on ovo-lacto for proteins which is not great and have lacking minerals. You usually get a fair deal of that in meat which we can't :/ I wish this warning was more clearly stated in the press.

I suppose that many pharmacists make profit out of this by selling supplements. I think I was quite wise not to plan for a longer period looking at it now

Some very healthy and necessary supplements like tofu and lentils are excluded from keto and are alternate protein sources that also have the benefit of not having cholesterol.

Tinkeringbell

Ah, that does sound bad :( I do take a multivitamin during winter, as I really do believe it helps with energy levels when there's no sun, eating patterns here at home focus way too much on comfort food and I'm just not motivated to outside into daylight as much...

May still be just a placebo though.

Arthur Hv

It could help, we all can be lacking some vitamins if our diet isn't perfect.

Tinkeringbell

Yeah. That's what I'm telling myself :P

Arthur Hv

That being said probably that real health problems due to a lack of vitamins are fairly rare.

Tinkeringbell

I think I recently saw someone tweet about scurvy and how it was still a thing...

That was... interesting.

Arthur Hv

5:57 PM

C vitamin is abundant in fruits. I mean it's possible some people are sooo into comfort industrial transformed food they don't eat fruits or vegetable but scurvy's hard to have if you have a remotedly varied diet (which sadly doesn't mean everyone :()

I think the society is also at fault there, there is no adds for those tasty fruits and vegetables :)

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv Apparently, it's mostly a problem for people that live in poverty and can't afford fruit and vegetables... sciencealert.com/…

If you think about it, fruits and vegetables are ridiculously expensive compared to a bag of pasta/rice or even chips.

Arthur Hv

I think it's true and not true. I mean the budget to eat healthy is normally accessible to everyone, in France given the social assistance, and the poorest can also apply for getting all that's not fresh for free to some non-profits. I think most cases are about people sacrificing food budget for something else, which is also a problem, but a problem of society and mental health in general IMHO.

Some people are also completely unaware that eating potatos everyday is not going to end well.

They are few, but I'm sure there are

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv Perhaps. I've heard that part about budget may not be true for America.

I also do know food banks here struggle to get enough fresh fruit and vegetables, and there was a recent case where the court ruled that if you had someone else do grocery shopping for you structurally, that could be counted as a form of income and as such you'd have to declare that when asking for government support as that had an influence on your monthly expenses and how much support you'd need to pay for those...

Then again, yes. There are people that use money gifted to them specifically for groceries to buy cigarettes or a new phone instead. My mom has known such a person.

@ArthurHv If it's only potatoes that's bad, yeah :P A traditional Dutch meal is vegetables, potatoes and meat though, and it's not deadly as far as I know.

Arthur Hv

Well I meant only potatoes yes :)

I think I agree with what you said, situation could be pretty ugly in the US. I think if there is somewhere I'd like to be poor it's in France compared to everywhere else in the world.

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, being poor in Western Europe seems much less bad of a choice ;)

Talk about being poor... our National Bank came up with a genius idea to decrease the gap between poor and rich.

They want to make buying a house more expensive.

Because renting is more expensive than buying.

And that's unfair :P

Arthur Hv

6:12 PM

The unfairness, is all about taxes structure manipulations, that taxed heavily people that rent vs people that just own and live somewhere. Which is why everybody rushes to buy when they can. Which is why we again tax the poorest part of our population, with an original intent to cut profits from people renting stuff

Tinkeringbell

Ah, over here there isn't a tax on rent. There is a tax on buying, in the form of 'You own this house, this house represents this much money, so you own this much money and need to pay this much taxes over the money you already own'.

Arthur Hv

Tbfh when I hear people complaining they have to pay 1-2k a year of taxes for a house they have I'm scoffing

Tinkeringbell

I'm assuming you rent? :) Mind sharing how much rent is taxed then?

Arthur Hv

Rent is taxed perhaps 30% all the way to my landlord pocket.

I don't have the exact figure, it's a bit complicated

It's part of their income, so the higher they win, the more they are taxed

And it's taxed as being their property also, they pay these 1-2k a year also

Tinkeringbell

Ah. Yeah, landlords over here are taxed 'income tax' too, just like any other profession.

I'm not sure if they pay the tax for owning the home, probably yes.

Arthur Hv

6:16 PM

But you see those taxes don't happen when you make a profession to house yourself

Tinkeringbell

Still... would you make buying even less accessible in an attempt to lower rent?

Arthur Hv

I would not count renting as income, or not fully so, and increase the property taxes all the way for everyone

you own a part of the country, you pay

In a yearly or monthly basis

not on per-transaction, which is also stupid

The estate prices should go generally down from this, but the price to live on your capital would not

Tinkeringbell

I don't understand economy a lot, but taxing people for owning a roof over their head just to make renting a room over your head cost less seems to make no sense to me?

People that already have more access to money can then buy property, but people that have less access to money are still being forced to rent from the people that can buy, and the raised taxes for owning a property will only be included in the price of rent?

So, instead of lowering rent, it will increase it?

Arthur Hv

Taxing all the roofs of the country make their desirability to be owned (which is directly related to price) go down. It's like for example, paying a car insurance, make the price of cars go down. The price of owning a car and driving it is the same

The idea is that people that rent will have access to a market of lower price

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv Ah. I think that idea may work in a situation where there's a surplus (or at least some balance between supply and demand) of roofs.

Over here, the market is really, really stressed and there's much more demand than supply.

So, I think a measure like this will only increase the gap because more expensive roofs will only filter out the 'poorer' parts of the 'demand', while doing nothing to immediately increase supply (or offer a supply for those poorer parts)

Arthur Hv

6:26 PM

In case the demand is higher than supply I don't think tax regulations can help do anything

It's more general politics

Driving away population by investing in other parts of the country, less expensive

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv Ehh.. small country :P This idea was supposed to be implemented for the entire country ;)

Arthur Hv

On the long run though, these situations tend to solve "by themselves" like in Japan. It's a bit tragic but what happened there is that people made less child because they didn't have the money to invest in space to raise them.

At least, that was a factor.

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, I think the birthrate here has been steadily going down too, and there was even a prediction of population shrinkage in the future in the news last year.

(far future, not near future)

I guess we're a problem that needs to solve itself ;)

Arthur Hv

There is also possibility of migration flux. If you're all rich but noone can own a house you can maybe find a roof in a nearby country. We had that with Paris inhabitants coming to Bordeaux in the recent years.

Tinkeringbell

True. Maybe one day we'll all end up migrating to Africa ;)

There's a bit of that going on already, and the covid pandemic made it accelerate a bit: People that used to live in tiny city apartments in the west are now migrating east/north to more roomy homes with a backyard for the kids ;)

The main 'problem' with that is that it raises prices in those regions because the demand is now bigger than the supply there too.

Arthur Hv

6:34 PM

It's a bit disruptive, but I don't think I would do otherwise but flee an overcrowded city.

I'm having plans for fleeing mine x)

Tinkeringbell

A good example of how crazy things are: funda.nl/koop/wezep/appartement-41147804-zeuven-heuvels-11 . I'm getting a similar apartment, it's still being built (okay, mine will be a bit bigger in the shower/living room). I paid 189k for mine in December 2019, including the whole kitchen/bathroom.

These apartments are of an even 'earlier' round (say, '17) and went for 169k originally. They have a slightly fancy shower/kitchen, so let's say they're asking around 50k more than they originally paid.

That's a lot of increase for 3 years!

Arthur Hv

I see 4.400 per square meter. Which is also where we got here at Bordeaux.

meilleursagents.com/prix-immobilier/bordeaux-33000

You can see below the +37.3% since the last 5 years :D

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, it was more about how much it has increased in such a short timespan than the actual prices :P

Arthur Hv

Over the last 5 years it was actually a 3 years increase since the last 2 are flat

It was also quite sharp. It was because of the migration flux Paris to Bordeaux

Tinkeringbell

Fingers crossed things will eventually even out here too ;)

I can really see that thing going up like a covid graph, yeah :P

Arthur Hv

6:43 PM

It always does, but where, is always the question :(

Anyway I'm not having an engineer pay to go in debt for 20 years for 50 square meters. No thanks

Im going away that

Tinkeringbell

Fingers crossed working from home stays really normal after covid, and becomes encouraged to decrease environmental impact and traffic :) That way it also becomes easier to not be needed to live near your work as much :)

Arthur Hv

Yea I'm really counting on it as well

I want to keep my job if possible

Tinkeringbell

I really hope it does become even more accepted here than it already is (I used to do 3 days office, 2 days from home).

If I see the company I'm currently on loan to move to max 1 day at the office a week, I'm thinking of possibly eventually switching jobs over to them.

I've been asked once already but I declined because they both didn't give lease cars and it's over 2 hours by public transport to get there, and because I have no clue what my finances will look like right now when I'm on my own, so going into negotiating now could make me end up off way worse.

Arthur Hv

So you're open to new opportunities if they are reasonable ?

Tinkeringbell

Ehh, yes, but not now ;)

Arthur Hv

6:54 PM

Ok :) You're "sold" or on loan to another company that made you an offer

That's the part I didn't get initially

Tinkeringbell

Yes. I work for company A, and they mostly just rent people to other companies :)

Arthur Hv

I see

Tinkeringbell

It's a good deal since if my project at the company I'm rented to ends, I'm still employed at company A and get my pay :D

They're basically doing the same as landlords :P Buying up scarce developers then renting them ;)

Arthur Hv

Perhaps you will be moved to another project that would be more interesting to switch jobs to eventually

I never understood why this business worked. You, in a company, need developers you trust and will be crewman till the end. If you get a shipped project you're in for long, long years of maintenance contracts.

Tinkeringbell

That's why the grid operator I'm working for rn is actively looking to get as much in-house people as possible.

Arthur Hv

6:58 PM

I see

Tinkeringbell

The benefits of switching for me would be that I would be working for a company that's located roughly 'in my region' (their main office is a 45 minute drive by car).

If I stick with the company I'm with now, I never know where in the country my next project will be.

Also it's a large company/grid operator so it's not likely to run out of work for me ;)

Arthur Hv

If you switch can't you also negotiate a good raise, since they don't have to pay your company, and you come with knowledge etc

Tinkeringbell

I probably could. But right now I have no clue how big the raise should be to make sure I have enough money to be and stay happy :P

Like, if we do have to go back to the office for more than 1 day, perhaps switching is still an option but I am really going to need a car then, and since they don't do lease contracts, I am going to need to take that into account when negotiating.

Right now I'm getting my healthcare insurance returned on my paycheck, I need to take that into account when negotiating ;)

Basically, it's just a bit too much of calculating and stuff without also knowing what other expenses I will have each month once living on my own

Arthur Hv

I know developers that are sold 700e a day that are not even that good. I just mean your current company sells you perhaps 2x to 3x your current salary. You can ask for a consequent raise and not be completely off. I can't know how much is good enough but you are for sure in a great position for negotiating.

Just saying. Now I get your situation is a bit complex

Tinkeringbell

:D I know I have that position yeah, it's nice to see you confirm it though :) Honestly, the only thing holding me back is that I already have things that will change in the future soon, and I want things to be quiet and settled when I go into those negotiations ;)

(Also because my contract does have some form of non-compete, so while it technically is possible to end up working for the grid operator, the company isn't likely to let me go off easily and that's going to be a bit rough. I don't need all of that at once) :)

Arthur Hv

7:06 PM

Oh I see

Tinkeringbell

It's certainly not impossible: Several people have already gone from this company to the grid operator :P

It's just that the manager is likely to whine, and pressure you into not doing it, and you need some balls to stand up to that and fight back XD

Journeyman Geek

same issue as me :D

@ArthurHv 10% seems the standard rate :D

Tinkeringbell

A wild Journeyman Geek appeared!

(I'm watching AGDQ :P)

Journeyman Geek

lol

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I suspect my company is getting more than a 10% turnover on me... I think I accidentally got sent some numbers once XD

Journeyman Geek

7:10 PM

@Tinkeringbell oh, one of my old companies used to do it :D

also, depending in the wording, your non-complete may not extend past your contract. If I stay here (which I am hoping to avoid) I might end up with a month or two 'break' after my contract, and come back here as a new direct hire employee for the same company I work for now

Arthur Hv

In France non-compete must always be compensated. For example if you have 3 month non compete in the same industry after your contract ends, you must be paid some amounts for these 3 months. The result of this is that most employers that put non-compete clauses, are unaware they are actually void in front of a tribunal.

Tinkeringbell

I think it really is worded to extent past my contract, but it's legally not entirely fool-proof. The exact details are still fuzzy though, but it's basically that a company as big as this one (which rents people to so many different, big, national other companies) can't have that kind of monopoly :P

Arthur Hv

7:52 PM

Going off. gn

Tinkeringbell

Good night!

There's still 1,5 hours left on the speedrun, but I don't think I'll watch it entirely..

lila

9:25 PM

@ArthurHv good night.

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