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1:51 AM
Have you tried planning meals before shopping? Is that something your SO would consider? — DaveG 2 mins ago
#26008 DaveG (6983 rep) | Q: How to negotiate following a diet with a reluctant significant other? (score: 5) | posted 9 hours ago by Arthur Havlicek (1744 rep) | edited 9 hours ago by Arthur Havlicek (1744 rep) | Toxicity 0.0757774 | tps/fps: 0/0
Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]
4 hours later…
5:30 AM
@Ael you are welcome :P
interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/26010/32 just in case some one feels like handling VERY inappropriate content ^^
should be deleted right away IMHO
5:56 AM
Morning :)
How we doing this Thursday?
6:23 AM
Getting ready to start another 5 hours of SAFe training :)
Already have two hours of working done, so that's nice.
And you?
Nothing much. Looking at an API to see a way to implement it in the existing project.
Sounds fun! :)
6:41 AM
Afternoon! ;)
7:31 AM
Morning people :)
@caldeirabot Cat please?
@Ael For real?
@caldeirabot Ahah x) Thanks :p
@caldeirabot additional cat please
8:16 AM
@caldeirabot i'll take my cat share too
i have the bigger share ! YAY
a cataclysm
@caldeirabot You insensitive a-hole. There just was a question yesterday from that user about weight issues!
@caldeirabot do you have catcuses too?
8:18 AM
no, that's not quite right
@Tinkeringbell question drew quite some attention and a reply that has its merits. Feels good
@ArthurHavlicek You're hot :P
@Tinkeringbell Always knew
@Tinkeringbell Oh wait
8:33 AM
Hahaha I'm sure you're hot in real life too :P
You're in Europe right? Most of it is having a heatwave IIRC :P
This is pretty bad rn
We're down 5 degrees from yesterday to a top out at 30°, but it's super super super humid
It just rained a bit and now it's even more humid
Last day of heatwave here. Tonight will be thunderbolts and lightning, very very frightening...
Ooof, yeah. Humid sucks. They're predicting 33 this afternoon, 24 tomorrow.
we've got heat last 2 weeks and rain the last 2 days. I just hope it doesn't last till september where I have my vacations in Corsica.
It's already a lot cooler right now than yesterday at the same time, so I do wonder if we're even going to hit 33 today.
8:37 AM
I hope we won't be getting another lockdown as soon as people are inside a bit more again
I kinda do hope we get another lockdown, because right now numbers just keep doubling each week and people are being so careless...
yea, there is that too... no lockdown till september 7th pls
@Tinkeringbell I hope it won't be necessary
another lock down will have to be enforced via mass police presence, people here aren't going to do it voluntarily
by no lockdown I obviously mean the same, that I wish it won't be necessary
@Magisch Well, if they have to...
Rather an enforced lockdown than none at all, I guess.
9:04 AM
@Magisch It might depend of the kind of lockdown? I mean, if you order every bar and theater and other nonessential stuff to close, people have far less reason to go outside and it should reduce the propagation. Plus, if it's mandatory to wear a mask in any public place (even a park or a market) it would reduce propagation even more. So, if you only do those two things, mass police (probably) won't be necessary
@Ael People are demonstrating on the streets even now against just having to wear any kind of mask inside a grocery store
And for their "right" to infect others
@Magisch Ah... I thought this was only happening in the US, I guess I was wrong
sadly yes
@Magisch wow I didn't know. Nonsensical. Well I'm kind of happy to be away from the news tbh
I honestly didn't hear anything about that in France (but I am not that up to date on news). Anyway, for what I saw in Paris and now in my parents' city, people respect this mask stuff very much. From time to time, I do see someone "cheating" on public transportation by not wearing the mask on the nose, but it's really not that many people. Plus, It's definitively not happening in stores, only in public transportation
9:11 AM
We have a mask mandate for grocery and other stores. I'd say maybe 75% of people follow it here
the people who aren't are usually older people though, which is weird
9:47 AM
@Magisch That's still 25% who are not following it. That's a lot. Also, I'm surprised that the people at the stores aren't saying anything. Here, if you enter a store without one, they will immediately tell you something (it might be different for bar and restaurant though). But maybe it's because here, the people owning the store will get a fine (and potentially be ordered to close down) if their clients don't respect the all "wearing a mask" rule.
10:29 AM
Q: My boy friend sent a break-up letter to my Mom, well, two months ago

High GPAYesterday he is with his new girlfriend and I was like WTF? As all young partners, we did argue a lot, but I thought we were far from breaking-up. For the past two months we were at different cities but we were communicating as usual. And yesterday he suddenly told me that we already broke-up, be...

@ExtrovertedMainMan That's a 'what should I do' + an off-topic one.
on an unrelated note who breaks up via letter to the parents
10:49 AM
I have achieved receiving a sms for breaking up a 2 years old relationship, and my call back not being answered
I also have been ghosted simply
I wouldn't make a competition but I have a feeling that men are the worst at this.
They're always the worst :P
It's still 25 degrees in here because the man of the house decided to open the windows while it was was still 30 degrees out.
11:08 AM
@Tinkeringbell 27° with 85% RH here
8 degrees colder then yesterday but somehow even more hellish
30.1, with the RH at 54%
It has this wet sticky feel to it. Even when you're not sweating everything feels like it's wet
Yeah I can imagine.
11:59 AM
@ExtrovertedMainMan I wonder what the culture is. I wouldn't imagine someone doing that in a european country
@Ael Ehh, ghosting happens on europe
so I wouldn't be surprised if that happened as well
@Magisch Ghosting yes, but sending a letter to the mother? Oo
Haven't heard of that yet, but it seems possible
12:32 PM
Some country in East Asia. I just stalked on other posts of the user
36°C here
32 and climbing.
Just half an hour more and I can stop work and go lay in a pool :D
lucky you, I have to pretend working for a whole 3 and a half hour there
I started at 6:30 this morning, when the temperature was still in the low twenty-degrees.
Did 2 hours of work, then 5 hours of training...
So that leaves another hour to work after training XD
I went swimming twice this summer already but it feels unproductive
12:40 PM
@Magisch How comes ? Swimming is like running but better
I would understand the boredom, but it's quite productive t. someone overweight
@Magisch I don't really swim... just lie down in a layer of cold water with a good book, and stay there until dinner is ready :P
@Magisch You should set some sort of goal and strive towards it.
Cardio exercise is boring unless you play a game of "idle cardio empire free tap game" until the Stockholm syndrome kicks in and/or you plateau
I guess swimming is mostly cardio, same spirit
So anyway, go watch a move on YouTube and tell yourself you're gonna master it in the pool
@M.A.R. Swimming is cardio and also a lot of technique. You can definitely improve how to swim for a decent part of summer.
Well duh, I'm just not fully aware of the most widely accepted classification
Whole-body moves are all the rage, and swimming is as whole-body as it gets
12:58 PM
@ArthurHavlicek I always found it time inefficient compared to other cardio
You can read a book, listen to music or watch a movie while bycycling for instance
@Magisch I must be some kind of autist, but I dislike most of these activities. I enjoy focusing on the sport alone and have a great time at the pool usually.
Except when I have to forward crawl because I forward crawl horribly.
I have asd and the only way I can make myself do prolonged bouts of cardio is by reading while doing it
@Magisch That's fine by me. Actually its kind of worrying me I dislike reading books, watching movies and listening music altogether. I shouldn't have tagged it autistic but I meant some kind of possible extra mental disorder
It's that I don't enjoy exercise in any way at all. I get cranky when I haven't done my pushups and so for a while, and I get cranky when I fail to do cardio for a long time, but it's not an activity I enjoy in and of itself. It's like the unseasoned rice of activities. Not particularly odious, but only enjoyable in combination with something else. I really like reading, so I'm using reading a book as a carrot to fit my cardio in.
Reading while cycling? O.o
1:13 PM
Exercise bike, I presume ;)
@Magisch do you push yourself physically?
Or is it always around the same intensity/speed?
@Magisch I used to be a "I don't enjoy exercise in any way" but I will subscribe in September for diving and can't wait for it to start. And this gave me will to do swimming exercise. I think most of us can find something we find comfortable and enjoy doing, but it can take a lot of time before you find out.
Next possible question, in case of a yes, is have you stopped pushing yourself?
@Tinkeringbell Yeah I keep wondering "yeah I used to listen to music while cycling and it was already bloody dangerous, but WATCH A MOVIE?"
@M.A.R. I had music on when I cycled to highschool every day.
Lately I make sure to turn it off before starting to ride, because it's seriously scary to ride with noise cancelling headphones.
@Tinkeringbell and it was already bloody dangerous
1:24 PM
@M.A.R. Not really. All the bicycle paths were the kind of paths that were separated from the road.
I don't bike for these reasons, I considered biking to work and aborted for this very reason
So all you have to do is stick to the right and make sure people can pass by :D
Q: How to politely explain to one of our friends why we don't want to meet at his place?

YuropoorSo we're a pack of long time friends (15 years+) and we hang out with each other many times. The meeting place (if we don't go out to town) is one of our houses, and we rotate it (so no one is forced to clean after us 4 times a month :) ). One of our friends has a kid (1,5 years old) and since it...

@Tinkeringbell well I don't enjoy that luxury here. They introduced a few bicycle lanes in Tabriz and they immediately turned into parking lots.
@M.A.R. I don't enjoy pain and suffering, so I stay about even
i did initially but like with pushups, I don't like wearing myself out all the way
1:25 PM
@M.A.R. Yeah, then cycling with music isn't recommended.
@Tinkeringbell obviously this is when on a home bycycle
@Magisch then no wonder you find it cumbersome. You're in a paradoxical state of "I'm pushing my body" and "I'm not pushing my body"
@Magisch Yeah, I guessed as much :)
There's gotta be some of the "no pain no gain" attitude. Too much or too little are bad.
Mhm. I don't like pain
1:27 PM
Nobody does.
Nobody likes the bitter taste of most drugs either.
@M.A.R. I do in some sexual circumstances but more on that another day
@M.A.R. I did push myself initially, for quite a while actually
It was never anything but unpleasant. So now I can do 20 more pushups in a row. So what?
But if you go on with the mindset that you're doing it for the betterment of your body
@ArthurHavlicek Told ya, no pain no gain
@Magisch Well I'm 2000 miles away so can't tell what you're feeling right now. By my second question I was going to ask if you've burnt out some. You probably have.
@ArthurHavlicek Remember chat is rated PG13 ;)
@M.A.R. I don't think it's significantly better for my body if I can lift more, or run further, or cycle further, at this point
1:30 PM
So you push a little, then rest a little until your body adapt to your new situation.
Unless you're an actor for a big role
Nothing in my life even has the potential to require that
@Magisch Whoa, have you beaten the final boss, or?
@Tinkeringbell Acceptable to read for a 13yo in my book but feel free to censor it out. I mean it really is no important comment.
Am I secretly talking to Schwarzenegger?
@M.A.R. Stronger and faster isn't necessarily better
1:31 PM
Yes it is
in what context?
I'm beyond the baseline of what a normal human being with a desk job and no strength or endurance intensive hobbies will need.
Sure, for the most part we make up situations in our mind like "One day I'll be walking down the park and a car would need to be lifted out of a hole" but it's not about that
@Magisch there's very little normal human beings would need of exercise but longevity
In fact, I don't need to coax you into anything right now. Don't exercise for two weeks, and see what feelings you were taking for granted with exercise.
@M.A.R. I know that, that's why I keep doing it
I'm just not having fun.
Well those feelings are fun o.o unless we're not talking about the same thing.
I couldn't exercise much for the entirety of the exam month. I started hitting 10k again last week and saw the difference.
Not exercising for a while makes me have less energy and feel generally worse. That means doing a maintenance level of exercise is worth it for the long term benefit. The exercise itself though is a chore
1:36 PM
The irreplaceable happiness that comes with exercise, that you're "fit", even if your body shape doesn't change a bit.
@Magisch Well I'm saying exercise makes me feel better, so the action is fun in itself. It's at least like anticipating something good happening to you. Now if that's not "fun" to you, we're either just playing with labels or there's something you're doing wrong
I completely understand Magisch position as I've been there myself tbh
The only thing that I care about wrt. physical fitness is the impact on my mental fitness
being out of shape gives me less energy for mental stuff which is where the fun is
If I could be a brain in a vat I would be
Everything in my life, diet, sleep schedule, exercise, all that is optimized to maximize the amount of energy and time I have for fun and enjoyable things
@ArthurHavlicek I've been where I suddenly start hating moving the next muscle, but it has always been either in periods of steadiness where I didn't push at all or when I've been pushing further and further for too long and feel burnt out
@Magisch There are obviously more benefits to a fit body than just showing off abs in selfies.
Like what if a T-rex is chasing you.
@M.A.R. Well to many people what describe Magisch is exactly that : sport achievement is essentially a pointless chore, our fun comes from intellectual stimulation, and sport is just a mean to enjoy that with better quality of life
^that is exactly it
1:43 PM
I don't have some innate desire to be better or best at some sport
@M.A.R. "yo i can pushups this many"
Better is far from best
the only thing sport is for me is a method to manage the variable of physical fitness which is part of what I need to do to maintain mental fitness
There is nothing about exercise or sport - any exercise or sport, that has meaning to me beyond that goal
3 mins ago, by M.A.R.
@Magisch There are obviously more benefits to a fit body than just showing off abs in selfies.
Obsessing over numbers or the shape is as pointless as it can get but I think we need to backpedal here and note all the good things that happen because of a healthier body.
This jadedness is IMHO exactly the product of sensationalizing fitness
1:47 PM
@M.A.R. I don't really think so. A fit body pleases you because it pleases others because we live in a superficial society. That's close to everything that there is about having a fit body. Needless to say, if you could sell them on ebay, you'd have tons of buyers, none of which particularly enjoy sport.
And here I'm arguing about it unsure whether I'll even make it to 60
@ArthurHavlicek No, I don't think that's all there is to it.
@M.A.R. Personal views then
I think we're missing the forest for the trees here. Yes, we're sadly living in a superficial society where people either look good for the camera or can pull off great things. I'm hinting at the latter. What you can do when you're more fit, including a healthier, more awake brain, even if you won't ever do most of those things in life, feels darn great.
It's one of the best gifts exercise can give you.
I always felt a pang of pain until almost a year after the operation when I wanted to do push ups.
And we're fine to do the minimum effort to get that. No need for pushing oneself
Recently I pulled it off. It's just a bloody exercise. It doesn't matter much to anyone and there are people who can pull off an amazing number of push-ups. Yet I felt really happy, because I could do it.
1:53 PM
I don't think I'll be more mentally alert if I can do 20 more pushups or cycle for 10 min longer
Anything that I don't enjoy usually gets the minimum viable effort
I don't strive to become better at washing dishes either
@ArthurHavlicek something's lost in translation here. I wasn't recommending people to train for 400 meter olympics. By pushing I mean if you're doing 10 minutes a kilometer, make it to 8, on a steady schedule that spans over two months.
That's the sort of progress that keeps you interested in cardio
And it's very far from becoming a professional athlete.
What specifically about improving kilometer times makes cardio more enjoyable?
it's still cardio, but now you have to put more effort in
If you're already running 20 kmph, then it's simply that our definitions of fun differ. You've been there done that for everything I say, and you're looking for something more that isn't there. You've "mastered" enjoying it, and you won't enjoy it any further
Seeing my progress at the gym gave me near zero satisfaction
@Magisch For starters, the "can pull off" argument. I'd be happy with myself if I pull it off, even if I never need it IRL.
1:58 PM
nah, thats not a motivation
Same way I wouldn't be proud of being able to wash 10 dishes in a minute
It's a means to an end and that's it
You never test yourself for dish washing speed
You've already tested your cardiac, pulmonary and muscular strength.
Next time, count how many dishes you wash in ten minutes for a few days.
I also tested my tolerance of loud noises before migraine sets in, and that too improves with practice, that doesn't mean i'm willing to improve it
I don't know why you derive an inherent satisfaction from getting better
@Magisch You're not associating beating migraine with any sort of tangible improvement in yourself, that's why.
@M.A.R. Believing muscular strength makes you inherently better is nothing but social deception
The mindset is that migraine is inevitable anyway. But if you knew you could eliminate it entirely from your life (which we don't)
2:02 PM
@M.A.R. I still wouldn't go through 50 or 100 migraines to get there
no need
same way as I don't go through pain to become better at weightlifting or running or whatever. No need
@ArthurHavlicek "Believing practicing guitar makes you inherently better is nothing but social deception" "Believing learning a new language makes you inherently better is nothing but social deception"
A new language has tangible utility
running faster does not, in my situation
@mag Most don't
Especially if you're fluent enough in English.
I wouldn't learn one unless it did
although, mental challenge (like learning something) can be inherently fun, at least it is for me
sports just isn't
Social acceptance is one of the smaller things you gain by getting better. It's not the sole drive
2:06 PM
you have it reversed. Social acceptance dictates what you believe is better
A lot of things you become good at are going to be 'useless' 50 years later when you're looking back. But you don't stop doing them
@ArthurHavlicek I think you're giving it way too much credit
@M.A.R. Explain me why women shave, is it enjoyable, does it make them better ?
we exercise for the same reasons
Shaving does not make them better at anything except shaving
sports does not make you better at anything except sport ?
So yeah, social acceptance is really important there. But exercise?
2:08 PM
some people enjoy and have fun with sports, some dont
if you don't, there's no need to do it beyond basic fitness
@ArthurHavlicek You're again conflating betterment with pursuing a professional career
Arnold is a good example because his obsession with sport was clearly super unhealthy
iirc he has back problems and other issues
I'm saying "exercise". I'm not saying volleyball
I'm also not saying literally becoming Arnold. I think one big issue here is what defines "basic fitness"
The crux of what we're arguing about is that beyond a baseline point being more fit isn't categorically better
only better for some set of non universal values and circumstances
How do you know that a green BMI or 20 pushups meet the requirement of basic fitness?
It's just a recommended goal. But what's the science?
2:11 PM
my definition of basic fitness is the point where getting fitter doesn't give me more mental energy
I'd think that bar would be really high
surprisingly it really isnt
exercising once or twice a week for about 2 hours meets that bar readily
as long as your diet doesn't sabotage it
My psychiatrist recommended walking sessions and never told me anything about a schedule to improve either
YMMV of course
It's a line every person has to find on their own
told me going out for 30 min walk everyday would do the trick easily
2:14 PM
in my case this is supplemented by ~7km cycling to and from work on every weekday
@mag So, hypothetically, if you were doing the same exercises in a much higher intensity, and if mental health was defined by some of the good actors in the brains being secreted, my guess is the science says they'd be secreted more
when the partial furlough happened and I didn't do that for 4 out of 5 days for 4 weeks I felt really damn miserable
The maximum would be really high and difficult to reach, because the brain keeps being retrained
I get what you mean
I'm not interested still though
Now we can say YMMV :)
It's not like I'm an Olympic runner myself
@ArthurHavlicek They're just parroting the guidelines, poor fellows.
Trust me, they told me the same after the transplant.
Not their fault.
in Language Overflow, Jul 16 at 17:04, by M.A.R.
@CowperKettle Scientists are really good at helping people with disorders. They're not so good at helping people without disorders.
2:16 PM
@M.A.R. I'm inclined to believe my psychiatrist more than a random fellow on the internet that would basically want everyone dopamine addicted
I'm not sure dopamine is a really good actor but I'm simply urging you to look more into it.
@mag My goal is to basically convince my mom that I have not slimmed down since she last saw me.
Ask them what other sources they recommend you to read other than official guidelines of "30 mins of walk, 5 days a week"
@M.A.R. What are your sources by the way ?
I looked very hard into it, when I was trying to figure out things for myself some time ago. I don't need you to take this any more seriously than an anecdote.
@ArthurHavlicek The source for which claim I made?
2:19 PM
I don't know if I ever got dopamine from exercise
@mag Yeah wasn't it the Facebook hormone?
I get dopamine from reading a good book, writing something good, helping people, being liked, playing an interesting game, all that jazz
I can tell when I get it and when I don't
might have swapped the drugs name, the sport one is a different one
What I get from exercise (or what I miss from lack thereof) is similar to not sleeping enough
lack of energy in general
well dopamine is listed but so is endorphine
2:22 PM
@mag I'm not convinced it's that easy. Biology is always more complicated. If you ask me in a couple of years, I'd probably be much more informative on what does what, but what I'm confident about is our current symptom-treating medical knowledge is far from satisfactory unless there's some substantial progress made with genome science and nano
That's probably (hopefully) what's going to happen. We haven't had a breakthrough in quite some time
I'd be interested in finding out precisely what causes my mental issues to start
@M.A.R. The principles of addiction are well known and documented though, and we know one can be dependent of the substances generated by one's brain, which is essentially why some people can't stop sport even in bad medical conditions
@mag That's probably how we're going to understand the whole shebang
And how to treat it without using ampethamines or similarly odious chemicals. Right now the treatment is significantly worse then the issues are in my case
:/ well i'm luckier than you then
2:24 PM
no I mean, I can manage my symptoms without medication with social modifications and precaution and by limiting what I do by a bit
I've never tried them but I know enough people that use amphetamines to control similar issues that I never want to try that route
We tackle problems in order to come up with solutions, and there's always been an amplitude of problems in medicine to tackle
also, caffeine is utterly useless to me
@mag Yeah it's often not even just the alkaloids themselves but the mechanisms they alter. That's why I'm saying we're far from understanding it as a whole and it's certainly not as easy as "X → happiness"
I'm mostly convinced I could down a pack of caffeine pills and wouldn't notice a thing (not that i'd ever intentionally try to poison myself with a stimulant)
X is secreted, it affects the secretion of a lot of other hormones. Some negative, some positive feedback
2:41 PM
@M.A.R. I'd like you to source these two claims especially : a - sports give you a more awake brain b - the bar where the awakening benefits stops is high.
3:01 PM
@mag hey, no catcus anymore?
@Tinkeringbell How's the pool ? :D
3:17 PM
@Tinkeringbell need to lie low for a bit
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5934999/ — "Much evidence shows that physical exercise (PE) is a strong gene modulator that induces structural and functional changes in the brain, determining enormous benefit on both cognitive functioning and wellbeing. PE is also a protective factor for neurodegeneration."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31963639/ — "Since PA in higher intensity causes more extensive, more powerful, and longer-lasting neurobiological changes, it may prove more beneficial to cognitive functions and mental health."
I also believe fixating on the mental advantages of something that has a multitude of other advantages for the body itself a little pedantic. I took it that this viewpoint would be prevailing among people.
Either way, the first study is rather illuminating.
@M.A.R. Well, I'm sorry about that, i can be quite irritable (medical condition playing) but I have in horror people using the words "better" and "best" speaking about what are completely personal choices. I am a moral relativist. You also belittled what I believe was a key argument (social acceptance defines better) and kept being adamant recommending something to someone that said clearly wouldn't want or like... this is not very good grounds for me not to be defensive.
That being said, I will read the studies carefuly and I truely appreciate the input. Didn't mean to imply the claims were false, although I was curious to what extent they were true. I just believe you use them to a wrong conclusion.
3:35 PM
@ArthurHavlicek I'm sorry it came off as undermining the role of social acceptance. I was merely being pragmatic. My stance is that social acceptance plays a key role in a lot of things, but there are often overlooked benefits to, say, exercise (not "sports"), and those can be the main reason to follow exercise and intensity in exercise for a moralistic schmuck like me that also isn't looking to get laid or anything. Signals that get lost in the loud noise of petty ego trips.
Language is a barrier and yes I sometimes use sports incorrectly truly meaning exercise.
@mag Mkay. If there's anything a mod here can help with, let us know :)
@Tinkeringbell no, it's a precaution
my other thing means I make a decent amount of enemies
@ArthurHavlicek It was lovely, I had just gotten out to dry up for dinner when I wrote that :D
@mag Ah, yeah, that figures.
in Language Overflow, Jun 2 at 19:51, by M.A.R.
Spy game theme
3:41 PM
Take care!
@Tinkeringbell you could unpin my picture from here
@mag Maybe temporarily changing the username would be a better idea?
Unless you did change it
I did
There you go :)
You'd always be a @mag for me, so I didn't notice
MWAHHHA five stars gone
3:47 PM
Want me to clear the stars in Tavern too?
@Tinkeringbell already did that
I have powers there :D
Ah good!
And I don't have powers anywhere except two mostly dead chatrooms
I'm something of a survivor
Badass Clint Eastwood grump
what's going on :O
Nothing, just people with room owner and moderator powers sweeping things under rugs, like usual ;)
3:54 PM
Is it just me or has that been more annoying recently?
This case notwithstanding of course
It depends on how people react to it. If they take well, acknowledge they were wrong and do better from there on, it's not as annoying ;)
I dunno what bothers me but I think Mith should be present if we'd have this discussion
So let's talk about how wholesome it felt to eat just tuna and tomatoes for lunch
You ate tomatoes? Heathen.
I don't know, it wasn't that delicious but I wanna do it again
@Tinkeringbell Oh um, you were the tomato hater, right? And Journey hated celery?
3:59 PM
I'm not sure about Journey, but yeah... I definitely dislike tomatoes ;)
Or was it the other way around
Found it
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, Dec 10 '18 at 14:05, by Shadow Wizard
Dec 2 at 13:17, by Journeyman Geek
@Tinkeringbell hates tomato. I don't particularly like celery.
Good job!
That was when I was making this abominable witch spell goo with celery stew, tomato paste, and yogurt
Now I'm hungry
I just ate but I could snack?
Have had way too little snacks lately.
The stew also has some cooked meat
4:02 PM
@M.A.R. me too, i'm hesitating taking away a salad at the bar near workplace, but i need to have this conversation with SO before :(
But with this heat there's no walking for exercise, so no snacks.
I think you should get some snacks and with every mouthful remind yourself that you'd have to burn it with two extra hours of jogging.
There. Life ruined 101
@ArthurHavlicek I used to have this impression that salads are healthy until I saw what westerners put in them so I'm not sure anymore
@M.A.R. Salad, tomatoes, corn, cucumber, carrots, the sauce isn't very healthy but thats it
if i take that home might add tofu
@M.A.R. I think I won't, and just sit things out until my birthday next week. There'll be snack then, hopefully :)
but yea at the same bar it could be bacon pasta and parmesan soooo
4:10 PM
@Tinkeringbell Chocolate birthday cake, not many are invited so everyone gets a huge chunk . . .
@ArthurHavlicek That's cool
I'm trying [a very distorted version of] carb cycling because I've plateau'd and wanna see if this breaks it
Going home (finally) see you later and sorry again M.A.R.
@M.A.R. I think only my brother will come, as my grandfather is still having trouble. So yeah, lots of cake for me! :D
@Tinkeringbell <visible envy>
@ArthurHavlicek Ciao
@Tinkeringbell Inb4 it's vanilla :evil:
@M.A.R. Probably mon chou :D
Or apple.
@Tinkeringbell bless you
TIL another Dutch food
4:18 PM
It's tasty, it's a really 'fresh' kind of taste.
2 hours later…
5:52 PM
@Tinkeringbell well it looks like some cherry or strawberry flavor
But I can't comment on a cuisine whose chocolate wafer looks like unprocessed coal
Select all images with Dutch food.
The thing even looks like a trilobite fossil
3 hours later…
9:16 PM
@M.A.R. I've read the articles and associated data, they are quite convincing, thank you. Now, I don't want to elaborate tons on this discussion but I wanted to explain a bit why I'm the enemy of better and good. The origin of how good you consider something is either innate (e.g. pleasure) or learned through environment (e.g. social pressure). It's known fact we differ brain structure by genetics and we also differ in environment so it's logical we differ irreconciliably in our notion of good
Now if I'm not doing something for the pleasure then it's fair assuming it has an indirect grounding in social determination. How actually recommandable is that... varies. People smoke out of social pressure of a certain circle.
Gendered adjectives in books -- Interestingly, one conclusion to be drawn is that "men writing women" is mostly a myth, or at least it's not as significant as [I personally] thought.
@ArthurHavlicek this in itself is easily derived from common sense. I don't necessarily agree with the extremes this argument can be stretched to, but this should be self-evident.
So I prefer when you can prove me something has benefits that interest me, in a shared value, than when these are considered self-evident. I mostly consider people recommanding "good" stuff to be a form of social pressure
9:32 PM
@ArthurHavlicek I think this is a fair but incomplete assessment. There are other factors at play. If a grandpa is having cancer, how the family reacts to it might affect whether he would consent to extensive chemotherapy or live 'his final few years' in peace, but there's also how treatment could objectively improve his life later on.
Of course, assuming that long life is desirable
Itself another factor that can affect (rational) judgement and choice
I don't think we disagree here on these core principles
@mag FYI, I started with the broken Earth trilogy
@M.A.R. of course, Martin describes men's hair very often. All the NPC GoT characters are "balding", lol
@M.A.R. I could agree you can do things in contrary to the decision of someone, "for his own good", but there is a very very thin line on that that is very often crossed by the egoism of people wanting to tell themselves they did "the right" thing regardless of how actualy desirable it is to live long and ill for that person
Respecting their decision is quite often a safer bet
@ArthurHavlicek yeah
to me this doesnt weaken the argument, we do that in the end so the person have a longer pleasurable life, because we like pleasure, because we like each other, not because there is a transcendantal morale
9:50 PM
Well, that gets hairy because often people don't know what they want. Anecdotally, there are numerous examples of people persuaded to change their choice that were all the happier for it (and numerous examples of when they regretted it, but who's counting) and this higher knowledge of what plays out better is exactly the transcendental truth and morale that I think exists but is often overlooked and undermined by post-modernist philosophy.
But I'm not going to have a debate about that on 2 a.m. Good night :)

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