The Awkward Silence

A J

1:27 AM

@Tinkeringbell too many candies? ;P

avazula

5:39 AM

Morning everone!

dhein

GaMen :)

avazula

how are you today?

dhein

5:57 AM

Finally back at my desk. Really need some vacations from my vacation x)
Wbu?

A J

6:13 AM

@avazula morning!

avazula

@dhein haha!

I'm fine :)

Morning @AJ!

A J

what's up everyone?

dhein

@avazula glad to hear

JAD

ola

dhein

0/

avazula

6:23 AM

o/

Pseudohuman

\o

A J

@JAD hola!

Tinkeringbell

7:00 AM

Morning!

A J

@Tinkeringbell afternoon!

Tinkeringbell

Is everyone back at work today?

A J

I was back at work yesterday. :P

Tinkeringbell

I wasn't :P

A J

7:15 AM

Why?

dhein

7:43 AM

@Tinkeringbell I finally am back :)

Missed you all ^^

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: Landlord insisting to enter room to check for damage. How to tell him I do not consent but will not resist?

I live in a shared house where one of the people living here is the lease holder. Things are going crazy. I am moving out soon. Along time ago I put a lock on my door with the lease holders permission. I agreed with him to hide the key in a common area. This is so I can check to see if the key ha...

Extroverted Main Man

8:10 AM

0

Q: Is it true that fathers dont care about their kids after their mother dies?

I notice when the mother dies then the father just remarries and forgets about his kids in general. When fathers die, the mother still look after the kids.

family

Tinkeringbell

8:22 AM

@dhein Good to hear :)

dhein

8:41 AM

@Tinkeringbell Yeeeh ^^ Still not finished with relocating yet. Can't wait for finally being all settled here. x)

Tinkeringbell

@dhein Relocating takes time, just take yours. I guess there's a bit more pressure though, as you went from one apartment to the other, instead of from parents to 'move out'?

avazula

9:28 AM

→ 19 messages moved to Trash

dhein

@Tinkeringbell yep. With 700km between the apartments... everything I forgot to settle in one place was a intense slap in the face 🙈

Tinkeringbell

@dhein Did you forget a lot of stuff? Nothing really important, I hope?

IPS Comment Bot

11:21 AM

@BananaMilkShake: Have you considered that due to your history with her, anything you say can be taken to be in relation to your relationship ending? You may simply not be a person who she'll listen to without dismissing your input as vindictive or spiteful. — Flater 35 secs ago

Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic", "experimental-aic(@scohe001)"]

avazula

@IPSCommentBot tp

IPS Comment Bot

Marked this comment as caught correctly (tp). Currently marked 1tps/0fps. beep boop My human overlords won't let me flag that, so you'll have to do it yourself.

JAD

@ExtrovertedMainMan wtf?

dhein

11:59 AM

@Tinkeringbell Well, yeah I did. Like passing on infos, signing up things at the new place, resignating the other. Putting stuff from a to b.

Magisch

This Q Makes an excellent point for why catija's suggestion is a necessary addition

WRT HNQ

dhein

But thats why I planed in 2 times 1 week for relocating. As I know myself I knew that would gonna happen and hence I had to mess up 2 weeks ago to figure what still had to be done last week.

Still a few things I just realized yesterday/today. But its handable now... '^.^

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch A delay of a few hours might've helped downvoting that one into oblivion, or not... really depends on the community, sadly :(

Magisch

12:40 PM

@Tinkeringbell I mean the answer sits at +9x -2x so at least some people dv'd it

At least the community would have had a chance. The Question went HNQ a couple hours after the answer was posted.

Ælis

I just spend like 30 minutes wondering why my maven was running code that wasn't there anymore. And then I realize it's because I needed to do a mvn clean...

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah, you're probably right. I'm curious.. can you access the page mentioned here?

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell not on SO

on MSE I can. It's a 10k tools page

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I meant for workplace actually ;)

Magisch

there too

workplace.stackexchange.com/tools/post-feedback

Do you want to see a specific stat from there? I can screencap it for you

Tinkeringbell

12:49 PM

@Magisch I don't have that priv. I wanted to tell you to go see there if there's any consolation, if the answer perhaps is in 'overrated' :P

@Magisch Nah, I don't wanna know ;)

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell The answer is on the monthly "most helpful"

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch :(

Magisch

And 3rd in weekly most helpful

Tinkeringbell

And it's not also showing up in other tabs? (I don't play with those tools often ;) )

Magisch

Neither in over nor underrated, for all time categories

Yeah it's on the #20 something on the monthly most helpful, and #3 on the weekly most helpful, and does not appear in any other lists

under any time category

Tinkeringbell

12:54 PM

That sucks.

Magisch

Also the 5th highest rated answer this week on the entire stack

While the question is the 4th most viewed question this week

Tinkeringbell

Okay, okay. We're miserable enough now :)

TheTinyMan

Speaking of misery, I'm here! :-P Hi guys!

Magisch

Silver lining: no twitter outrage about it

This would have been a bloodbath on twitter

Tinkeringbell

@TheTinyMan Heya!

TheTinyMan

12:57 PM

@Tinkeringbell Hi! :-D

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I wouldn't be too afraid of it... Don't let Twitter rule SE and make people afraid to post anything. The thing with IPS was that question titles showed up in HNQ, and people went mad about those. These weren't the kind of people that would open such questions to read the answers, I guess...

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell The question title was pretty bad too

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah, I saw the edit history :)

Magisch

It sort of discredits stack's viewership a bit though that such an answer would find broad upvoting and acceptance

Not going to lie, if someone makes the argument that we have a bit of a culture problem because of things like that, it'd be hard to refute

Tinkeringbell

1:12 PM

I think a lot of HNQ people might just forego downvoting as 'it's anonymous/low rep and doesn't do anything', while that isn't entirely true: It still shows up in those tools. Further, a lot of people might see sites like Workplace as 'fun' instead of serious business, and don't recognize the harm in upvoting something 'just for lolz'. I wouldn't be too harsh, though having a 100 not-so-nice people around is still not that much considering the amount of people that see these questions/answers ;)

Magisch

eh. The real harm here is we're still building a long term Q/A and people like to adapt answers for similar but not equal situations. So someone who got caught doing something crappy and inappropriate at work might happen upon this post and (since they can't see downvotes / upvotes breakdowns) think "Oh this is a good and recommended way of dealing with that"

I guess the advice of sabotaging someone's career and gaslighting / lying to their face just doesn't sit right with me on a visceral level, I know people who had the displeasure of being on the recieving end of that

A J

@TheTinyMan yello!

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Understandable, I get that mostly for gender stuff these days :)

Rainbacon

@Magisch Yeah, I'm confused as to how that answer hasn't been removed

Magisch

I've exhausted my options to facilitate its removal. I downvoted it, flagged it and replied to the meta thread about it

outside of starting a hashtag i'm out of options

Rainbacon

1:25 PM

Was your flag disputed?

Magisch

still pending

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Then now, just wait? Your meta answer seemed to be doing well last time I checked... And if not, I think you can also try contact us before starting a hashtag ;) I remember someone doing that for an answer on IPS once, while we were discussing if it was okay to have. Eventually animuson helped us out.

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell i'm not going to start a hashtag

Rainbacon

Do you think that answer warrants an R/A flag or just a normal one?

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Glad to hear :) You'd be doing yourself a disservice as well, opening yourself up as a target ;)

Magisch

1:29 PM

@Tinkeringbell Not so much about that. I think that we're better off dealing with this stuff first and foremost internally

Twitter and buzzword activism are bad for nuanced discussions

Rainbacon

@Magisch I made a TWP account just so I could flag that answer. I think that's the 3rd site I've done that with now.

Also, nice meta

Magisch

Also, I think the site should deal with this in its own pace. Trying to force their hand by creating outrage is ... not productive, in my opinion

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, you're right about that :)

It might garner a few more downvotes to help informed opinions, but...

Magisch

yeah. I don't want to damage stack exchange as a company, or kick off another witch hunt in the current climate. Not worth it. Someone will deal with it sometime. Failing that, there's still contact us

Rainbacon

Interesting. I've never seen this notice before "Thanks for the feedback! Votes cast by those with less than 125 reputation are recorded, but do not change the publicly displayed post score."

Tinkeringbell

1:36 PM

@Rainbacon They can be seen though, on 10k tools, so I advocate voting down everything you see that needs it, even if you don't have the reputation ;)

Perhaps you already have the necessary reputation for accessing interpersonal.stackexchange.com/tools/post-feedback on here, with the reduced reputation levels?

Rainbacon

TBH, I hadn't ever tried to downvote without the rep to do so before.

I think so

10k tools are 2k on beta sites right?

Tinkeringbell

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/50025507#50025507 links to a meta about that tool :)

@Rainbacon Yes, I guess? I'm not really up to date on those XD

should be the moderator tools privilege, IIRC

Magisch

3000 rep for beta sites, so yes

@Tinkeringbell yes because you attract diamonds like some sort of compressed carbon magnet wherever you go :D

Rainbacon

Ah yes, I had never poked around those before

Ooh, the most helpful post in the history of IPS is the frame challenge that I referenced here

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Not true. I have active accounts on loads of other sites, and no diamonds :P

Magisch

1:45 PM

...yet

Tinkeringbell

@Rainbacon Quick question: Can you see vote counts in there?

@Magisch I'll stick with the two I have for a looong while. ;)

Rainbacon

I can see the anonymous vote counts, but not the ones that feed into the post score

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell !remindme 12 months when tink has overtaken the stack

and/or assumed a cm position

Rainbacon

Interestingly, there's a button that I can click to expand the post and it gives me the option to vote on it, but I can't show the vote counts

Tinkeringbell

@Rainbacon Hmmm? So you can see the number of anonymous/low rep vote counts, but they're not visible in the actual score of the post? That's what it's supposed to do XD

Rainbacon

1:50 PM

Yes. Let me screencap it real quick

Tinkeringbell

You can do the math yourself, and then one of our most overrated/least helpful answers has a score of 6 instead of 70-something. That's... quite something, and shows that anonymous votes might actually be useful... perhaps... if people start arguing about HNQ inflating scores ;)

But only if people in HNQ without the rep to do so downvote ;)

Rainbacon

There's a tooltip that pops up on those counts that labels them as "Anonymous and low rep feedback counts"

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, I see those too. Glad to know that isn't just privileged moderator info then :)

Magisch

SE dark theme ftw

Tinkeringbell

I like it for chat, couldn't get used to it on site. So turned it off again :)

Rainbacon

1:55 PM

Wait, how do I get the dark theme for SE?

Tinkeringbell

@Rainbacon userscript :)

Rainbacon

And how do I use said userscript?

avazula

It's only available for Chrome though :(

Magisch

and firefox

Rainbacon

I use Chrome!

avazula

1:57 PM

wait what

I thought it wasn't suitable for Firefox!

:sad:

Magisch

tampermonkey 4.9.5 exists for firefox

avazula

:all these months spent in blindening mode:

scohe001

@avazula is blindening the opposite of dark?

So when the Sith Lords are like "Come to the dark side..." the Jedi were like "No, come to the blindening side"

avazula

@scohe001 My sight is overdeveloped, everything that's above 200 lumen is painful to me :p

I can't look at the sky on a cloudly day - can you imagine my optician's face when I asked if they could provide me with night-mode glasses so that I can drive without being blinded by the cars' headlights?

:p

:I'm a vampire:

Magisch

we should throw a diamond at you to combat the vampirism

Rainbacon

2:03 PM

Hmm, This will take some getting used to

avazula

@Magisch Please don't, I'm a nice one :D

scohe001

@avazula dang. It’s like your body was made to stay inside programming, reading and playing video games

avazula

@scohe001 I'd love to live at night tbh - 9PM to 11AM would be perfect

But they said we should live with people and socialize and we need sunlight dur dur dur :p

Rainbacon

@avazula You don't need sunlight. There are other sources of vitamin D

avazula

@Rainbacon Mmh, but is sunlight only good for vitamin D? I thought there were other good stuff one can get from it

Magisch

2:09 PM

I sometimes have a feeling the sun hates me

I get so easily sunburnt

Vitamin D is the primary purpose

Rainbacon

@avazula I'm not sure, vitamin D is the only one I remember ever being told about

avazula

I'm trying to get a link that's explaining the sun benefits without looking like a site advertising for witchery

oh right - sunlight makes the body produce serotonin - nice feature

Rainbacon

Don't we have drugs for that?

avazula

@Rainbacon of course. but so do we for vitamin D

Rainbacon

So, what I'm hearing is that you don't need the sun

2

avazula

2:20 PM

@Rainbacon ... true :p

but it's easier to go out once in a while than to take meds though

Rainbacon

2:53 PM

Yikes, 8 of the top 9 posts on the homepage are closed

Ælis

@Rainbacon The "Newest" page you mean? Because it's not the case of the "active" page

Rainbacon

Yes

The active page is still 6/10 closed

Ælis

For the active page, there is an easy fix: just edit some open questions/answers which are still open. It will put them in the front page and "hide" the closed one

Magisch

4:24 PM

Flag ended up helpful and the answer was r/a deleted

Rainbacon

@Magisch That's good

Em C

@Magisch it was deleted by the time I saw the conversation in here this morning, based on the description in the meta, definitely seemed like the right call

Magisch

i.stack.imgur.com/umzed.png @EmC If you don't want to rely on my description of it. And if you fancy losing some brain cells

Em C

yikes

Magisch

That was the top voted answer at 90 upvotes for the 18 hours the Q was on HNQ

Em C

4:36 PM

I do not envy the workplace mods

Magisch

Me neither. They removed the question from HNQ asap and the answer is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. The author already accused them of censorship & the usual

Em C

I'm a bit surprised nobody on the meta has mentioned CoC (which I would probably cite when deleting such an answer here), but I suppose that could be opening a can of worms for them

Magisch

I didn't want to dive into that. Of course it's also a pretty blatant violation of the CoC with regards to alienating a lot of people who have experienced unfair retaliation or witnessed inappropriate behavior and were intimidated out of reporting it

Don't need to open the CoC can when you can make a solid case for deletion on the merits of ethics

Em C

yeah, fair

oh boy, I just got an email saying I can look at my performance review feedback now.. cue ominous music :(

Magisch

@EmC 11/10 extra merit raise this year

here's hoping

I wish we had performance reviews here. It's just a confused ball of work instead

Em C

4:49 PM

@Magisch heh that'd be great. it's probably alright, but I have a meeting in 10 so I don't want to open it yet

@Magisch that sucks too :\ my last job technically had reviews but it was all based on "self-evaluations", aka you didn't really get any feedback unless you were doing really bad

Tinkeringbell

5:09 PM

@Magisch Actually... I think it might have it's merits to say 'Sorry, CoC, this isn't in line with treating people respectfully' instead of 'was deleted because we disagreed with your ethics' :/

Extroverted Main Man

5:30 PM

0

Q: What do I need to learn to become the same interesting person as I am while texting?

Okay, without bragging, I have noticed that I am more interesting, humble, captivating and impressive when I am texting than during face to face conversations. Honestly, I don't fake myself when I am texting and this is 100% sure that I stay the real me no matter if I am talking f2f or texting. A...

conversations awkward-situations socializing online-interaction non-verbal-communication

Em C

6:01 PM

performance review was.. ok! overall "meets expectations" but all the written feedback was pretty positive, so that's nice

Tinkeringbell

@EmC Awesome! :D

Rainbacon

@EmC That's good

Em C

thanks :) glad that's over, until the next cycle :P

Tinkeringbell

@EmC That almost makes it sound as bad as periods :P

Em C

@Tinkeringbell hahaha. fortunately, this only happens once every six months

Tinkeringbell

6:12 PM

@EmC That sounds slightly better XD

I just rewarded myself with three new books of crochet patterns.

I also passed my review ;)

Em C

nice!! what sort of patterns?

Tinkeringbell

@EmC Tiny ones! Floral designs :)

benl.ebay.be/itm/… < Hope that works

aliexpress.com/item/… < and these two

Same artist/author :)

Em C

oh wow! those do look very tiny

Tinkeringbell

I like tiny crochet :)

i.imgur.com/EIsfdNu.jpg One of the first tiny things I made

Em C

awww, cute

Tinkeringbell

6:19 PM

There's a tiny turtle somewhere but I can't find it right now, he's cuter :)

i.etsystatic.com/5618371/r/il/dc6db5/1712242389/… is cool too. I guess that one is for next month :P

Rainbacon

7:06 PM

The team I'm on has 2 week sprints that end on Tuesdays. We've had complaints that stories are getting done too close to the end of the sprint, so we're experimenting with requiring stories to be dev complete with 2 days left in the sprint so there is time for QA/UAT. This seems like we're wasting 2 days of dev time to me

Has anyone else had any experiences with something like this?

scohe001

@Rainbacon my team does the same thing (except we end on Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays), but we've kind of come to accept it

It's usually common for a dev to go into the bug queue if they've finished all of their sprint commitments though, so there's not really any wasted dev time

Rainbacon

We don't have a bug queue

Those get planned out with everything else

scohe001

Oh dang. We have a "Dev of the Day" (DoD) that rotates through the teams. Basically every sprint you spend a day devoting your resources to the bug queue--dealing with any P0's that come in and making sure any bugs with a deadline of that day are done. So finishing sprint tasks early makes you a DoD helper lol

We plan out root cause fixes, but I couldn't imagine planning out bugs

What if a new critical pops up mid-sprint?

Rainbacon

7:22 PM

My team does "agile", but I don't think anyone on the team actually understands what agile means. It's a problem I've had at several clients

Ælis

@Rainbacon "My team" didn't do what you said, but then the demo was all buggy and the POs were unhappy. So know they do have to finish the story at least on day before the demo, so that everything can be merged, tested and debugged

Rainbacon

We don't really have demos, also, the PO does literally all of our testing

Ælis

Isn't the idea of finishing earlier a way for you to have more time to test/unit test? If you are not fixing bug, I don't see what else you are suppose to do appart for test?

Rainbacon

I mean, we do developer testing on our stories, but the reasoning for having us finish early is so that there is time for the PO to do UAT during the sprint so that we can get the stories into "Accepted" before the sprint ends. We aren't supposed to pull in more stories because that makes the burndown chart look bad

Ælis

That sound... kind of stupid...

Rainbacon

7:34 PM

Like I said, I don't think this team really understands agile

Ælis

Yeah, I'm far from being an agile expert, but it does sound like they don't understand indeed

Em C

9:41 PM

arg, I might have to ask a new question if today keeps up.. something about how to train people to give constructive feedback..