The Awkward Silence

4:00 AM

@sphennings Oh, you're tired of telling people "Have you tried yet?, too?"

I just want to steer away from the popular belief that culture is always relevant and questions should be vtc'd if they don't include such a tag. I think it leads to trouble that could be avoided if we left culture tags as optional and instead forced detail and culture-relevant background to be added to the question instead.

sphennings

@JesseBarnett I don't think anyone is thinking that, but the nuances of culture matter a lot in human interactions.

@Catija Many of the questions have a little variance that could make them interesting if that was the focus of the question.

Jesse Barnett

"If the tag is added to the question, it can be reopened" - this happens to me often. Instead requiring the biopic style paragraph might actually result in a useful question

Catija

@JesseBarnett This is what happens when we put dependency on the tag... rather than the actual information we want.

I'd much rather have a paragraph than a tag.

sphennings

So you're trying to say that you want to see tags de-emphasized when determining whether a question should be opened or closed?

Jesse Barnett

4:06 AM

and currently the guidelines are: tag > paragraph

yes @sphennings

Catija

@sphennings I'd like people to not push for tags when the useful information is a paragraph that gives demographic backgrounds of the people involved.

sphennings

@JesseBarnett Where does it say that?

@Catija I'm in agreement with you.

@Catija I generally ignore the tags completely in favor of the text of the question.

Jesse Barnett

specifically in re-opening. tags can be emphasised by the asker as much as they like. but when a good question is being shut down because of the tags rather than content, when tags may not even be useful... it seems counter productive

Catija

But what happens is people see "oh, we don't need tags.. stop being a dick and asking for tags"... and they don't ask for anything at all.

Jesse Barnett

@sphennings interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1754/…

hmmm

@Catija well I can't say how people would act

sphennings

4:09 AM

@Catija That's a complicated balance to strike. Nuance is a hard thing to encapsulate in online policy.

@JesseBarnett That starts with "This isn't something we can make a blanket statement about." so don't be saying that it's making blanket statements.

Catija

When Hamlet was here prompting everyone for cultural information, he got a lot of pushback... so I've seen it.

He didn't get much support, people started complaining that he was being too strict asking for culture... and then he gave up and quit the site...

I'm not saying he was a perfect example of how we should be... but he tried and got pushback... and gave up.

sphennings

@Catija That was before my time.

Catija

Sure.

apaul

Hmmm...

sphennings

I don't think every question on the site will ever be perfectly tagged but I think that tagging can definitely be improved.

Jesse Barnett

4:12 AM

Wouldn't a viable solution be to ask for an explanation or tag? I am not demanding my culture be omitted from every question, just that people don't vtc when I choose not to limit the answers by including an irrelevant tag

sphennings

@JesseBarnett If the tag is irrelevant then don't include it.

Jesse Barnett

@sphennings then the question will be put on hold as too broad

sometimes

sphennings

Really?

Jesse Barnett

it only happens with tricky questions that people can't answer straight away, it prompts people to ask for a location tag, and if you don't include and keep rejecting answers then it gets closed

sphennings

I've never changed my mind about a close vote because a tag was added. That's just me though.

From what I've seen people will ask for cultural information. Normally this is provided by edits to the question rather than the addition of tags.

Catija

4:15 AM

@JesseBarnett Of course. In fact, screw the tag and just ask for the explanation. If it's obviously from one culture based on the explanation, someone else can add the tag.

Jesse Barnett

@sphennings I have never seen someone say "would you include some cultural information", it is always in the form of "please add your culture" or "add location tag"

@Catija the result on your meta post does not reach that conclusion

sphennings

Put them on hold if it becomes that the answers aren't culturally appropriate. Seems right to me.

Jesse Barnett

How do you know that the answers are not culturally appropriate? It is not something an answerer can know with confidence

it leads people to use culture as the excuse as to why the answers are not accepted by the asker

sphennings

There's nothing wrong with requesting tags everywhere. It's probably good for people in the US to realize that they are talking to people across the globe and perhaps they should question their assumptions.

Catija

@JesseBarnett My answer isn't really... definitive... I even disagree with it myself... in the last section.

sphennings

4:20 AM

@JesseBarnett There isn't a universal test for that. Right now I don't think having a clear set of criteria for that is necessary. If I'm wrong we can discuss it on meta and reach a conclusion.

If the OP is saying this answer won't work for me for cultural reasons I'd consider that a good indicator that the cultural component of a post needs to be clarified.

If we find that there is a bunch of disagreement about whether the culture needs to be clarified on posts or not, then we can consider it a real problem and begin to address it with real world examples of how it plays out informing our decision.

It seems like you care about this issue. If you want to start getting some information about how much of a problem this actually compiling that and presenting it in a meta post would be a good way to start a productive discussion about it.

Jesse Barnett

It is not exactly a new topic, perhaps I could make an answer to that meta post... but most of what I think has already been said, its just people don't agree

Gypsy Spellweaver

@JesseBarnett Rather than talking about what the problem is, or answering the meta post, how about reviewing the questions that have been affected by the issue, and compiling a list of prime examples of where it has become a problem. Also, in preparation for countering positions, try to find prime examples of where having the cultural information could have prevented problems. Then make a meta post with the results, and a proposed solution.

sphennings

4:39 AM

@JesseBarnett In short I don't think that there is currently a problem. I recognize that there could be a problem either now or in the future. Showing me real examples of it being a problem are the best way to convince me that there is a currently a problem. It will also make it much easier to have a discussion about what to do about it if we're able to talk about real examples instead of hypotheticals.

Jesse Barnett

I will slowly amass my collection. Anyone know an effective way to save posts at moments across time?

sphennings

There's the edit history.

Jesse Barnett

I guess if i have a folder and I explain the comments that and closevotes just with a description beside the edit it might work

a lot of work

Mithrandir

6:15 AM

@Shog9 that's today - yesterday we fasted, today we feast :D

Extroverted Main Man

6:28 AM

0

Q: How do I tell my roommate that he has a smelly feet?

I have a roommate that has a sweaty and smelly feet. He comes back to the room, and doesn't even bother to wash his legs before he gets on his bed. As a result, the room gets filled up by the aura and it is not so pleasant. How do I politely tell him that he needs to wash his legs?

Gypsy Spellweaver

@ExtrovertedMainMan Is "Open your mouth and move your lips" a valid answer?

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