The Restaurant at the End of the Universe - 2018-09-22 (page 1 of 2)

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12:26 AM

0

Q: Is this character from any sci-fi movie or show?

In the video for the Weird Al Yankovic song The Saga Begins, Weird Al is playing at a Mos Eisley type cantina, where several aliens can be seen dancing alongside the regular Star Wars characters. There is a character I think I have seen somewhere else, but never found any clue about him. Knowing ...

aliens tv character-identification b-movies

1:15 AM

0

Q: fantasy world set in renaissance type era about a painter swordsman

I only read sci-fi and fantasy. This was a fantasy story set in a world of monsters and giants and adventurers and gods and seers and an evil overlord. The protagonist is a painter (with an Italian sounding name- Benotolli?). He struck me as an Italian member of the three musketeers. The swordsma...

story-identification books

3 hours later…

3:58 AM

1

Q: 1970s-80s SF short story about a logger sent to a planet to fell the biggest tree

May have been in Astounding/Analog. The logger meets the spirit of the tree, cuts it down anyway -then all the houses of the village at its base begin crumbling. The tree had grown them for the people of the planet.

story-identification short-stories

3 hours later…

7:12 AM

@Marvin trying to edit but keep getting hit with errors.

What's weird is that I can edit other questions just fine.

@Catija I know you didn't write this, but with regard to a point made there, I think some people also were concerned about whether Dumbledore being gay was well-represented in the original books, too.

7:53 AM

@SQB was it the same bug you encountered @Alex ?

0

Q: Trying to find old post-apocalypse book/short story

In this story, a man wakes up with no memory in a teleported chamber. Outside he finds a jungle/forest of a destroyed city with no human life. He meets a talking animal that becomes his guide and hints to his past and abilities. The man learns that he is an augmented human or cyborg capable of gr...

story-identification post-apocalyptic teleportation cyborg extinction

8:27 AM

0

A: Exactly which features of SFF.SE's magnificent theme will we be losing?

You will lose the custom graphics and custom size of the upvote, downvote, favorite question and accept buttons next to posts. The custom graphics is specific to Sci Fi SE, and there's a recolored version specific to Sci Fi Meta. I have a customization that you can enable to get the traditional...

^ I edited the above post to try to give a popular description of why I like the new design of SE. If you don't like the new design, please give a chance and read the bottom part of that description, maybe it will give some hints for why this new design isn't such a bad thing, and how the SE web designers are spending their time on stuff better and more important than custom backgrounds and the Orbitus font.

2

Q: Did Vampires ever fight for Voldemort?

As seen in this question vampires are mentioned several times in the Harry Potter books. Hagrid mentions Professor Quirrell met vampires in the Black Forest. One of Lockhart's books is titled Voyages with Vampires. Lupin assigns an essay on vampires. Slughorn invites vampires to his party where...

harry-potter vampire

I'll copy it to a separate top-level post on Sci Fi Meta.

> You will also lose the per-site customized badge shapes.

I think not?

@Jenayah No, we'll get to keep the custom badge shapes, thanks to this request on main meta. (Even though they won't let us keep other custom things defined in the same image resource, such as voting buttons.) — Rand al'Thor ♦ 2 days ago

ok

@Jenayah Oh sorry, wrong answer.

I'm commenting at the same time I'm reading actually

re-ok then :)

8:39 AM

I didn't notice that we keep the badge shapes, that must be new. Frankly I don't care much about that part. The custom badge shapes suck anyways, because in the achievements popdown, youi see the wrong badge shapes for other sites, and that's very hard to fix. I don't care about the badge shapes.

It's the custom vote button graphics that I've addressed in a separate post.

I don't care about backgrounds, they're more distracting than helpful IMO, and I'll be especially glad if we can use the annoying Sci Fi background in chatrooms,

and I don't care about the Orbitus font.

@b_jonas customization works like a charm!

@Jenayah What particular customization?

@b_jonas your workaround to bring back the buttons :)

desabling/reenabling works too

DV UV fav work fine

UV on comments too though it shouldn't be affected in the first place I guess

same on Meta

Really cool feature, thanks! :D

user image

9:01 AM

I'm working to improve my writeup on what I like in the new site design, and copying it to a top-level post on Sci Fi Meta.

9:27 AM

1

Q: How I met web designers using their new powers for Good for the first time: a tale about the new design of SE

I'd like to show you a rare* example of good website redesign. It's right here on Sci Fi Stack Exchange (and Meta too, whichever you choose). To see it, you first have to enable the new site design, because this example is about that new design. You can enable the new design for all SE sites...

discussion design

@Slartibartfast This is for you, established users of Sci Fi SE.

@Jenayah Thank you.

@Jenayah Perhaps it shouldn't be affected, but I think the SE designers and testers are spending time on something much more useful now, as I explain in the new meta post scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/12103/…

The changes will be useful especially for new users

I retitled it too:

1

Q: How I met web designers using their new powers for Good for the first time: how the new SE design will help bring some new users

I'd like to show you a rare* example of good website redesign. It's right here on Sci Fi Stack Exchange (and Meta too, whichever you choose). To see it, you first have to enable the new site design, because this example is about that new design. You can enable the new design for all SE sites...

discussion design

Title still not perfect, but it's hard to give a good title here.

10:24 AM

@SmokeDetector indeed

This one stays up too long

waaaaay too long :/

aaaany minute now

25 mins :/

@SmokeDetector well Smokey now's your time to autodelete

cc @Mithrandir @SQB

10:45 AM

1

Q: Man awaken from suspended animation to stop an asteroid heading towards Earth, which turns out to be a space craft from the past

This story was from a Sci Fi TV episode in the 1980's or 90's, but I cannot remember exactly when or from where. A man is awaken from suspended animation to a post-apocalyptic society facing an inbound asteroid threatening the world. He was awakened by the leaders of this world because he has...

story-identification tv post-apocalyptic

11:06 AM

@Jenayah no clue how to do that on mobile, sorry.

@SQB :/

Unrelated, can someone upvote that comment so that it goes out of the "show 1 more comment" queue? Its purpose is to link two unanswered story-id questions together so it'd be better if it was a bit higher

Possibly related, since there is a boy who eats with chopsticks and gets powers from it, and he is accompanied by a dog of sorts: Anime/cartoon? - redhaired kid in yellow jacket fights monster with a magic glove that dispenses food — Jenayah Sep 12 at 17:31

1 hour later…

12:23 PM

0

Q: Triangulation in Science Fiction

What is the best explanation in science fiction for a triangulation method in space? For example, if a ship warped/jumped to an unknown star, what science fiction material has used the best scientific technique for the crew to triangulate their own coordinates in the universe?

12:36 PM

This should be edited to be a question, with a subsequent answer, not two posts. — Edlothiad 1 hour ago

^ I don't understand this comment. It's a comment on something that's already in question-answer form.

@Edlothiad ^

I don't understand either

Or did you mean something along the lines of "an you bring back the buttons" Q, "yes you can, here's how" A ?

1:30 PM

Is there a way to prevent an user's chat posts to be starred by others?

2:17 PM

2

Q: Why didn't the heads of other schools know about the Triwizard Tournament's tasks?

In The Goblet Of Fire we see that Madam Maxime and Karkaroff did not know details about the Tournament's tasks (it is best seen on the dragons example). Apparently it was done to avoid them to help their champions to get ready for the tasks. The whole even is soaked with atmosphere of distrust an...

harry-potter triwizard-tournament

3 hours later…

5:18 PM

@b_jonas I don't see why it'd be an issue; userscripts are explicitly encourages.

@Jenayah No.

@Jenayah poof

@Mithrandir dam

@Mithrandir thanks

5:33 PM

-2

Q: Harry Potter as Lord Black

I'm looking for an HP fanfics I read a while ago... I remember a scene where I think Hermione (or Mrs Weasley?) scold Harry for being in Grimmauld's library saying it's dangerous and he wasn't allowed and Harry replies that as he is Lord Black and head of the house she has no right to tell him o...

story-identification harry-potter voldemort

@Marvin Why is this being VTCed as "Too Broad"? It's not too broad; some parts are unclear, but it seems answerable / unique enough.

Also, I'd guess "Tom" is Tom Riddle, @Jenayah.

@Mithrandir because it originally asked for 3 different stories

@Mithrandir facepalms herself

@Jenayah Ah, I see.

in Codenames, Sep 17 at 21:11, by Mithrandir

@EriktheOutgolfer https://media.giphy.com/media/AjYsTtVxEEBPO/giphy.gif .

6:05 PM

-1

Q: What would Subterranean humans look like

How would humans evolve to live in subterranean environments over millions of years? Would they sacrifice certain senses like sight while improving others like hearing or smell?

fantasy-genre evolution

6:21 PM

0

Q: Fem!Harry Potter married to Voldemort

I remember snippets of the story. Like Dumbledore telling Fem!Harry (don't know if the name changes) that Voldemort/Tom Riddle (who is no longer snake-faced) offered a ceasefire in return for her signing a marriage/bonding contact and moving in with him. And her begging Dumbledore not to tell Re...

story-identification harry-potter fan-fiction

7:11 PM

-1

Q: When Heimdall bifrosted Hulk, did he know that it was actually Loki?

Now that it has been confirmed that Loki became Hulk to survive and that's why Bruce Banner refused to become Hulk on Earth (Loki definitely can't get the strength of the characters he takes form of). But, did Heimdall know the fact that he was actually bifrosting Loki, not Hulk?

marvel marvel-cinematic-universe avengers-infinity-war

0

Q: Attempted rehabilitation of insane scientist

I'm trying to find a book I read mid 70s or so. About a man who wakes up in a psychiatric hospital with no memory. He eventually finds out that he was one of the people who started a war (possibly nuclear) in order to reduce the population. He has nightmares about rats/mice killing one another....

dystopia science

8:07 PM

@Mithrandir Have you read my two bullet points about the legal stuff? The user-style isn't the problem. The problem is that I'm putting something that's not my own custom vote icons, but vote icons clearly derived from the Sci Fi web design.

And it's not even a trivial piece of design. I never really looked before, I only noticed now when I made the user-script, but the graphic designers actually put a lot of work into making these vote buttons perfect. Look.

user image

^ Look at those three buttons very carefully. Look at the pale spiderwebs behind the triangles and checkmarks.

The spiderweb behind the check mark is actually slightly different from the spiderweb behind the triangles (and the star, not on the image). The check mark is assymetric, and the spiderweb is adjusted to match that, but this is really subtle so the three buttons look good next to each other.

@b_jonas did you mention the artist?

It's actually already matters at the 100% resolution that image shows, that is, without zooming the website, but if you zoom it and if you look at an accepted answer, then you'll see it clearly.

I can't remember straight away

@Jenayah I did mention that it's derived from the site design made by the Sci Fi SE design team, yes. But SE posts are supposed to be licenced under the CC-BY-SA someversion license, and this one isn't.

I can't be more specific than that, but it doesn't matter. The footer clearly says "site design / logo © 2018 Stack Exchange Inc"

Hmm, I still have eight screenshots to make.

@b_jonas I don't know jack about licenses stuff (to be honest CC-BY-SA looks more like a license plate :) ) so I'll trust you on that one, or if it happens, whoever admin/staff/mod who'd tell you "nope, you can't do that"

8:14 PM

Oh, by the way, these kinds of screenshots that give instructions on how to perform something in your browser interface, they're the best example for where hand-drawn red circles are actually useful. They clearly stand out from the rest of the image, and you can't accidentally think that they're part of the UI, and I can highlight multiple things on the same image with them.

@Jenayah The problem is actually double, it's not just the copyright stuff, but the trademark. Those vote buttons are a trademark, among the most recognizable design elements of Sci Fi SE. If I put them on my website, I'd be clearly against the trademark law and SE would be angry at me for a good reason.,

@b_jonas oh sure but you don't

unrelated but that screenshot thing reminds me I still have to post my char-id question and answer

I'll finish another answer first

IDed a book :)

There are tons of websites that copy the general design of posts with upvotes and downvotes, and SE wasn't even the first, not even by far. But the specific design elements like those vote buttons with the great adjusted spiderweb, they are as much trademark as the M:tG mana symbols.

@Jenayah chair-id? Is that the image multi-id question you had mentioned earlier? Or have you posted that already? I am cought up on this design stuff now (plus also Real Life) and didn't look.

@b_jonas no still not posted

I have some more screenshots to make

and it'll be good to go

I'm still missing some characters but hopefully someone else can come and id them :)

The joke is on the people who closed scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/q/12103/4918 "Web designers using their new powers for Good for a change: how the new SE design will help bring some new users" by the way: now nobody can put an answer with a refutation of what I said.

(if they were not drawn at random)

8:19 PM

It's brilliant really, I didn't have to do anything, what I said is protected.

They are making my victory without me having to dirty my hands.

@b_jonas wtf, if we close Meta questions on the basis that they're not questions, we shouldn't have any announcements, in-memoriam etc

I don't care if it's downvoted to -7. It's a meta post and the target audience is established SE users only, they'll read the meta post regardless the votes and closure.

@Jenayah Yes, it's stupid, @Rand already says that in his recent comment, but it also happens to serve my goals.

@b_jonas modhammer incoming?

@Jenayah I hope it doesn't. It's better closed.

Like I said, the target audience is established users. They're the ones who go onto meta and downvote posts.

@Jenayah It's Edlothiad's comment scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/12100/… that I don't understand. Have you read it? Can you tell what the heck he's saying that makes sense in that context?

Feel free to look at the post edit histories too. It's not just an old comment. I posted that as question-answer at the same time in first place.

8 hours ago, by Jenayah

I don't understand either

8 hours ago, by Jenayah

Or did you mean something along the lines of "an you bring back the buttons" Q, "yes you can, here's how" A ?

8:26 PM

Oh thanks. You didn't ping me.

@Mithrandir chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/46853077#46853077

@b_jonas i think you're fine, se explicitly encourages userscripts and i don't see how this really differs

@Mithrandir Ok, thank you.

@Mithrandir Just to be sure, are you saying that as an opinion in your capacity as a diamond?

I'm asking in case any non-moderator tries to argue that it should be deleted. This will be good to point at. It won't help if other SE moderators decide on their own that it should be deleted.

it's... not an "official" statement - i didn't consult the CMs or anything - it's based on my experience with scripts and the like around the network

(i use a lot of scripts and stuff)

@Mithrandir Yes, I know it's not binding.

@Mithrandir Using scripts is different. This is about distributing scripts, on site Meta.

Yeah, distributing scripts is explicitly encouraged. There's an entire, official site for it.

8:34 PM

@Mithrandir scripts yeah, but it's about the content of the script, I reckon.

@Mithrandir Right. And like I said, that part isn't the problem. I'm considering making some simple custom vote button sets and distributing scripts for them. It's distributing one that's definitely based on the original Sci Fi design that I'm worried about.

Someone who doesn't like that post might try to flag it and convince moderators to get it deleted to oblivion, for either copyright or trademark reasons.

Id posted o/

(of the book I mean)

@b_jonas mods don't have to enforce copyright or anything, that's above our paygrade

@Mithrandir They don't have to patrol, but who examines complaints from users about it?

We direct them to /contact

8:38 PM

If I had a copyright problem with someone posting my work illegally in an SE post, I'd flag it for moderator attention.

@Mithrandir Ah, I see.

Ok, so it's not diamonds that I should have asked about this, but only CMs?

Really... I think you're overthinking this

I'll consider asking there then. That's even better, because then random users won't see my chat and won't try to grab the opportunity to use it against me.

@Mithrandir Of course I am. I have to. This is way above my usual level of manipulation.

...alright. Personally, I think it's fine (plus encouraged), but...

I'm trying to support the Evil web designers of SE here, who this one time pushed a Good update that will let some new users join. The established users are upset that their shiny toys like "custom Orbitus header font" and "starry background" (imitates vomiting) and "custom vote buttons" are taken away, and they don't think of the new users who'll now be able to join.

@SQB in reply to your latest comment: that's what you get when you sort out your stuff :p

8:43 PM

On the day when the new theme is enabled by default on most SE sites (chat and area51 will be last as usual, sadly, I want the background in chat to go because chat is the only place where the background is behind text, rather than only in the borders), I will sit a joyous feat because it's a very rare case when we get something Good from the big Evil corporations.

(That happens in politics too, sometimes, Evil politicians doing something Good because that's what happens to serve their need at the moment, but I won't give a specific example here.)

@Mithrandir I'll have to read the fine print in stackoverflow.com/legal/terms-of-service#licensing etc

Hmm, stackoverflow.com/legal/trademark-guidance gives a different contact address, not /contact , but an email address.

As for the closure on site Meta, I feel like I have to do the Evil grin that Tarquin does in the last panel of OOTS #785 giantitp.com/comics/oots0785.html : “Their every move makes my victory more complete.”

@Jenayah ^

@b_jonas ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Napoleon Wilson

9:02 PM

Duuuuude, chill! ;-)

okay, char-Id post is incoming :)

@NapoleonWilson Sorry, you can't stop me now, Mith said that this is above the diamond paygrade, and he's right, stackoverflow.com/legal/trademark-guidance actually clearly says that in the top. I never knew. I participate on Wikimedia Commons, where ordinary elected moderators deal with deleting or keeping intellectual property violations posted as a user content. But SE is different.

I thought that at least some ordinary diamonds can deal with this, but no. I'm writing an email to SE to explain my issue as we speak, as stackoverflow.com/legal/trademark-guidance clearly instructs me.

9:19 PM

Queen - Don't Stop Me Now (Official Video)

(also, char-id posted :) )

0

Q: Who are these Flashes?

The Flash #52 (2018) opens with the panel below (minor spoilers for the Flash War arc). This "council of Flashes" seems to feature the Flashes of different universes. And a different angle right after, revealing even more Flashes. Who are all these Flashes?

dc character-identification the-flash

Napoleon Wilson

@b_jonas I'm not intending to stop you. Knock yourself out, whatever it is you're on about. ;-)

On the other hand, help, I'm getting into a flamewar. You diamonds can actually help me here.

Am I getting too hot here? scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/12103/…

Napoleon Wilson

More than you can? ;-)

I guess I should flag for mod attention.

9:24 PM

The formatting would be a mess if all those pictures were full-size, so I used the Imgur s tweak. I'm unsure how to link to the bigger pictures, while conserving the square preview. Is there a simple way to do this or does it have to be done the painful way, HTML and stuff? — Jenayah 36 secs ago

Flagged.

@b_jonas: If you admit that your post is none of those things, then it doesn't belong on meta. That is why that restriction exists in the first place. — Kevin 7 mins ago

whaaaat?

So where would announcements belong? :p

Napoleon Wilson

@b_jonas Surprisingly no, I...don't think you are. Seems like a reasonable discussion for now.

@Jenayah The announcements are usually posted by moderators, and they have extra powers on Meta, including extra dark gray tags. Except perhaps the ones like obituaries for famous Sci Fi guys or stuff like Mike's new lung.

@b_jonas sure, sure, but still, the above comment is a bit expeditive.

9:27 PM

@Jenayah Can I help you in the image editing? I usually reduce the image size on my side of the computer, with image editing software, and I can help either by editing or by giving you some advice on how you can use the software.

Napoleon Wilson

@Jenayah It already does that to some degree. It already creates an image that's also a link. But by default both the link target and the image are the same. Just replace the image with the smaller one and leave the link as is. No HTML involved.

@Jenayah You're posting useful content on Sci Fi SE with the images (I haven't looked at this post yet but I've seen some of your older ones) and this is something where I'd be glad to help.

@NapoleonWilson so I have to double the amount of links?

urgh

Napoleon Wilson

@Jenayah Well, yeah.

@Jenayah Oh right, I didn't mention that part. Yes, uploading a thumbnail image inline for the post but linking to a larger version of the image is good practice if your images are large.

9:28 PM

@b_jonas feel free to! I'm not good at grids, but this one may have used one I guess.

(I think I remember you putting a grid for a char-id)

Napoleon Wilson

@b_jonas I think she just needs the imgur shortcuts that already do that job. It's about the markdown, not about scaling down images.

@Jenayah scifi.stackexchange.com/a/146188/4918 ?

@b_jonas Actually, I thought it did that automatically (the linking to the bigger one)

@Jenayah That's needed only in the extreme case, for very difficult images where you can't just label the individual characters. For simpler images, labeling each character to identify is better.

@b_jonas yep, that one :)

@b_jonas judge by yourself

user image

(minor spoilers for the Flash war arc)

9:33 PM

@Jenayah scifi.stackexchange.com/q/171218/4918 is another such case: I can't even count the number of objects we have to identify there, and there's still ones we haven't identified, and I think there are ones that were identified in the chat room but never edited into the posts because we ran out of steam.

damn that thing is named "house of heroes" and there are at least three villainous Flashes among those, including a Nazi

@b_jonas wooooh that's a detailed one

I put a grid on that one too. scifi.stackexchange.com/q/96701/4918 is a third example, but only about the obscured ponies, which can't be counted unambiguously, whereas the post is mainly asking about two of the non-obscured ponies.

Napoleon Wilson

But Flash is a hero.

@NapoleonWilson Nazi Flash is more of a villain than they're heroes

Napoleon Wilson

It's a superhero comic, though.

9:35 PM

Well to be honest the female one wasn't that bad. She mostly wasn't depicted at all tbh

@Jenayah You didn't know? It's the second biggest object-id/character-id question we have, afaik, with scifi.stackexchange.com/q/119845/4918 (Deadpool's wedding) being the biggest, in terms of numbers of objects or characters total to identify.

the male one (which I did not see in there) was a wicked one though

I'm mentioning that in that meta post listing all the multi-id questions that I never posted :-)

Oh fuck. It's reopened.

@b_jonas you'd think I'd have seen it, but I somehow hadn't!

@Rand you've spoiled my victory! but yes, you did the right thing reopening scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/q/12103/4918 , from a moderator's point of view.

@Jenayah See? That's why I have to do that list and post it on meta.

9:37 PM

@b_jonas indeed :D

Napoleon Wilson

I guess he can reclose it if it strengthens whatever odd point you're trying to make. ;-)

In fact rants do work better when closed, impact-wise. ;-)

Well, heading to the double-linking

holy HELL

with the existing numbers of links

I'm going to have to type the new numbers?

urgh

thank heavens for the automatic re-numbering afterwards

@NapoleonWilson Yes, that's why I made the happy grin chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/46853371#46853371 when I saw that it was closed (I just posted that message late because I had to hunt down the exact source of the quote).

1 hour ago, by b_jonas

The joke is on the people who closed https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/q/12103/4918 "Web designers using their new powers for Good for a change: how the new SE design will help bring some new users" by the way: now nobody can put an answer with a refutation of what I said.

Napoleon Wilson

Which...kind of reinforces the point that...the question seems to be lacking one. ;-)

@NapoleonWilson Lacking what? A refutation? I will not write that.

Napoleon Wilson

9:43 PM

No, not that.

Oh, a question. Right.

Napoleon Wilson

Keep trying. ;-)

...or don't.

But it's a discussion. I'm starting a discussion on an issue about SE.

Meta questions don't always need to be an explicit question.

^ what Mith said

Napoleon Wilson

9:45 PM

Indeed.

A point? The point is that the users whining about losing their shiny toys like the starry background and vote buttons and Orbitus heading font are childish, and if they ragequit from the community then that's a win for us, and we'll gain more new users who can now use the site and couldn't previously, or at least that is my thesis.

Actually half of those features might have been there before the new site design, I never really tested, whoever writes the refutation will be free to point it out and get ridiculed by the pre-made answer "so you're saying that the left sidebar collapsed on narrow screens even in the old design?"

1 hour ago, by b_jonas

I'm trying to support the Evil web designers of SE here, who this one time pushed a Good update that will let some new users join. The established users are upset that their shiny toys like "custom Orbitus header font" and "starry background" (imitates vomiting) and "custom vote buttons" are taken away, and they don't think of the new users who'll now be able to join.

Napoleon Wilson

@b_jonas Which...is kind of a rant pretty much.

But I won't explicitly say that in their face, because that would be stupid, I'm hoping that I can turn the opinion of a few regulars, and they'll see that the new design is useful.

Napoleon Wilson

Of course we can always justify rants since every kind of crap we're throwing out there will inadvertently "spark a discussion", but well, that might be stretching it...

I say in the post that they don't have to enjoy the new design for themselves, but they should realize what it does for allowing certain new users to enter the community, and that the new design is good for Sci Fi SE in the long term that way. Is that enough of a point?

Yes, it's a rant.

That's the real point, not the part about the ragequitters and their shiny toys.

That's more my motivation to write it.

Napoleon Wilson

9:47 PM

The question is if the points are even worth refuting. Do you genuinely want to hear a refutation of any kind?

@NapoleonWilson No, I don't. I'm banking on that nobody will spend the time to write a good one.

But I must pretend to allow them to write one, because this isn't my soapbox, it's a discussion board.

The bolded words in my post should speak for themselves:

Napoleon Wilson

Katching! ;-)

> In my eyes, these changes are much more important than the custom vote button graphics, or anything else we will lose with this update. It's a good tradeoff: while the site will become uglier for some old users, it will also become more usable for some new users who were previously unable to use Sci Fi SE for no fault of their own.

> I think that gaining those new users to the community is important, and if you're an established user used to the old design, please give a thought to that and reconsider this.

That's what my post says. Is that not enough of a point?

@NapoleonWilson why a refutation? Discussions can be held between people who agree with each other - granted, it's becoming rare in those Internet days, but still.

Napoleon Wilson

@Jenayah I wasn't trying to ride the refutation train here. ;-)

9:51 PM

@NapoleonWilson just sayin' :p

@Jenayah In this case, my target readers are the ones who don't agree with me, and keep complaining about what they lose in the new site design: the 26 people who upvoted scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/q/11844/4918 "Exactly which features of SFF.SE's magnificent theme will we be losing?"

Napoleon Wilson

@b_jonas It's a nice thing to say, sure. Makes for a cool answer to the announcement about the design...or the five million announcements on Meta Stack Exchange, I guess.

@b_jonas shouldn't that rather be targeted at people who downvoted an answer to that?

The question is legit

Napoleon Wilson

Even more so, the question has zero to do with the point he's trying to make even.

One's about pros and one's about cons. I don't see them overlapping per se.

@NapoleonWilson Yes. "I have posted this on Sci Fi Meta because I think that's where established users of Sci Fi who might dislike the new design are the most likely to encounter it." Established Sci Fi users are whining about the custom voting buttons of Sci Fi SE, the Orbitus headings of Sci Fi SE, and the stupid starry background used only on Sci Fi SE and associated chatrooms.

Napoleon Wilson

9:55 PM

There seems to be a conflation of people sad about losing design features with people wanting the site to close itself from new users. At least in how this chat seems to be going suddenly.

@Jenayah I cross-posted it as an answer to that question.

In fact that's how it started.

Napoleon Wilson

@b_jonas Me knows. ;-)

But I think it works as a stand-alone top-level post too.

So I later posted it as a stand-alone for more visibility.

I'm not sure if the title is good enough though.

@NapoleonWilson I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Could you rephrase please?

Napoleon Wilson

Oh, heh, the title's a thing of its own, too. ;-)

9:57 PM

@NapoleonWilson Not the whole chat, only me.

Napoleon Wilson

@Jenayah Don't worry, it's not all too important.

@NapoleonWilson I'm not saying that anyone deliberately wants to close the site to new users. I'm just saying that they don't understand the subtleties of web design and how difficult it is to make a usable site, so I had to write a popular description explaining that.

Napoleon Wilson

@b_jonas You're a primer contributor to it, though. Don't sell yourself so short. ;-)

@NapoleonWilson Yeah. I had to be sneaky. I bridged them with that sneaky trick about the custom recolored blue and yellow arrow buttons, the ones that replace our previous custom vote button graphics.

There, fixed the links.

Oh hi @Rand :)

9:59 PM

@Jenayah You may have to remind me to get back to your image thingy later, I'm a bit busy with these meta issues right now, and with certain real life stuff.

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