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3:19 AM
@TheLethalCarrot @Alex @Jenayah What about a link at the bottom of the post that takes you back up to the voting buttons?
 
3:44 AM
@CorvoAttano It would help for some cases.
 
 
4 hours later…
7:26 AM
@Alex one's more classy than the other... But it's not mine :p
@CorvoAttano could be. It's not impossible that someone already made something like this, now that you mention it
 
7:48 AM
@SQB Apparently it does, didn't realise cos SOX didn't update for me
@CorvoAttano That's an option but not a great one
 
8:11 AM
VPN kaput? (@TheLethalCarrot)
 
Hmm....
 
Doesn't like working in the mornings apparently
 
@TheLethalCarrot is your VPN named Ed?
 
It would only work for 30mins if it was
 
8:13 AM
I'll have you know I've worked both mornings this week.
 
You're on a roll
 
@Edlothiad ;)
 
Yep
 
Seriously though, you tell me if that running gag is getting on your nerves :p
 
Nothing gets on my nerves, my reactions are too quick.
People should always be available at their phones...
 
8:17 AM
@Edlothiad true, what's that thing with people sometimes going to the loo, or taking a lunch break? Seriously. And they call themselves professionals.
 
Professional slackers
Or that might just be me
 
^^
 
Try to do work and they don't pick up the phone. I can't see how this is my fault.
 
hello :)
 
benefit of freelancing and working from home
 
8:20 AM
@JalapenoNachos hiya!
 
Hi @Jenayah :)
this room has a cool background
 
@JalapenoNachos do they have good wifi there? :p
 
Some of us have to pay the bills.
 
@Jenayah I'm not sure - I'll ask him the next time we Skype :)
 
@Edlothiad eh?
 
8:24 AM
That was in response to a message above yours. (not directly above)
 
@Edlothiad what the one about freelancing?
 
T'was indeed.
 
@Edlothiad freelancing can pay the bills
Granted, it's harder
'specially for some fields, but still
 
I wonder how crowded the photograhy / graphic design freelance market is :)
I know a few people in it - they seem very happy
 
8:30 AM
Semi-professional editing as a younger person, while freelancing would seem like a difficult way to pay the bills.
 
@JalapenoNachos well, they're lucky then
 
yeah ...
 
The problem (for graphic designers at least, and photographers too I think) isn't a crowded market, there's plenty of demands, it's the fact that
 
@Edlothiad Naturally. This is why I don't pay the bills.
:P
 
"lol, it's a logo. You really want to be paid more than $10 for a logo?"
 
SQB
8:32 AM
Hey, @Jenayah, I wondered — did you get a bike?
 
And all the "I don't have budget for this, but we will put your name on our site!"
@SQB nope
 
Don't you get given a bike on arrival?
 
@Edlothiad nope
 
@Jenayah interesting
 
Netherlands, forever disappointing
 
9:00 AM
I need McDonald's hash browns mmm
 
SQB
9:40 AM
"Primarily Opinion Based" is a non-customisable close reason, right?
Because it occurred to me that "Primarily Speculative" might be more useful to our Stack.
 
@SQB educated speculative is ok
 
SQB
@Jenayah educated speculative is.
 
take out the educated speculative and I think you loose half of the Harry Potter questions and answers for instance ahah
 
@SQB correct
 
Also, you can have a sloppy question but good answers... Pretty sure there's a Meta post about it somewhere.
Don't remember if Main Meta of SFF Meta
 
9:43 AM
Customisable how? As in changing the close description?
Speculation is fine here
We prefer not to have it but it is fine
 
SQB
Too bad. On our Stack, "POB" doubles as our "Future Works" close reason. That would make more sense with "Primarily Speculative" as well.
 
@SQB ALL speculation is fine, we might not like it but that doesn't mean it isn't fine
 
@SQB Yes. We had a meta post about creating a custom close reason for Future Works, but eventually decided not to because it would have to be custom off-topic and not custom POB.
 
SQB
It's because of the Shrek question.
1
Q: What would the effect of the Happily Ever After potion have been on Fiona?

Alex DownsIn Shrek (the first film of the Shrek franchise), an alternate opening was story boarded but never filmed, called "Fiona's Prologue". In it, Fiona was born an ogre, which was why she was locked in the tower. She goes to a fortune teller (who was the inspiration for Fairy Godmother) for help. Sh...

 
@TheLethalCarrot Informed speculation - e.g. based on evidence in the text - is great. But as with POB, there's a line to be drawn between "no direct canon statement but plenty of evidence supporting this conclusion" and "random guess not supported by anything".
 
9:45 AM
@SQB oh so that "we dunno" answer was deleted eventually?
ok
 
SQB
@Jenayah yeah, I did.
 
ok!
 
@Randal'Thor Oh sure but I think when you get to "random guess not supported by anything" it's not exactly speculation in how we usually use it round here
 
Wait, you can delete a CW?
 
SQB
0
A: Why was my flag ("un-make this answer Community Wiki") refused?

SQBI was on the fence about voting to delete the question because while not actually opinion based — it's not asking "what do you guys think should happen?" — it's almost certainly only answerable through speculation. As "primarily speculative" is not a valid close reason, I answered with a basic "...

I wouldn't vote to close it as "POB", but I would vote to close as "Primarily Speculative" were we to have that close reason. Same goes for the actual "Gorilla vs. Shark" question. Same goes for all "Future Works" question, since it is speculation until that work is released. Same goes for all the "what would happen if I looked at a basilisk in the Mirror of Erised while casting a non-animal Patronomus?"-type questions.
 
9:49 AM
actually, what would happen if you saw the Basilisk in the Mirror of Erised?
 
@Mithrandir wait, what? Whose "deepest heart desire" is to see a live Basilisk?
 
I assume nothing would happen, actually - it's not a real basilisk, so it won't kill you; and if anything were to happen, you'd probably be Petrified because it's a mirror.
 
SQB
@Jenayah I mean if a basilisk was standing beside you and you looked at it through the mirror.
 
@Mithrandir well it's been proven you can put actual stuff in the Mirror
 
@Jenayah Newt Scamander :D
 
9:51 AM
@Mithrandir And a Boggart Dementor isn't a real Dementor, but it still had the same effect.
Hmm, I wonder if a Dementor's Kiss from a Boggart Dementor would work?
 
@Randal'Thor there's a question about that I think
 
@SQB Problem with Primarily speculative is it is more of a subject expert close reason. I might not know the material well enough to know there's ObscureReferenceA to answer a question so close it as speculative.
 
@Randal'Thor I doubt it.
 
20
Q: Would a boggart-basilisk kill someone?

sight wardIf a boggart appeared to someone as a basilisk, would direct contact with its eyes kill that person?

Marked as dupe-target of:
0
Q: Can a Boggart Kiss someone as a Dementor?

ikeIf someone's boggart was a Dementor, could they get Kissed and lose their soul? Related: Would a boggart-basilisk kill someone?

though the answer differ
I'm with alexwlchan on this one, to be honest
 
SQB
The general questions should be "does a boggart have all the (deadly) properties of what it imitates?" and "what happens if you do not defeat a boggart?"
@Jenayah me too, I voted it up.
 
9:54 AM
yeah, too bad alex doesn't really post anymore
 
SQB
Wow, I searched for boggart is:q and there are five or six "what is X's boggart?"-questions.
 
@SQB well in any case we have part of a confirmation that Boggarts aren't exactly the 'real deal' right
 
@SQB it's a tendency of the Harry Potter fanbase to overanalyze and wonder about every little thing, and our questions reflect that ;P
 
SQB
I see Dumbledore, Voldemort, Hagrid, Hermione, Sirius, Snape, JKR, Harry after learning to cast a Patronus, someone fearless, Draco.
 
I mean, we kinda know that Lupin's fear is the moon
 
SQB
9:58 AM
35
Q: In Harry Potter, can a boggart really hurt you?

Elisa ElisijaWhen it appeared as a snake to Parvati, would it really be able to bite or choke her, or is it just scaring without actually being able to attack?

 
If the boggart had turn into the real moon, Hogwarts would have been crushed wouldn't it
And probably half of England
 
@SQB Now that might be a good dupe-target for both the Boggart-Basilisk and Boggart-Dementor questions. Seems broad enough to cover both, which is better than closing two different questions as dupes of each other.
 
SQB
@Randal'Thor way ahead of you — already voted.
 
10:16 AM
@TheLethalCarrot pointless edit?
At least it doesn't bump the question.
 
Well it is pointless noise
Something not to be encouraged in posts
 
I know SE discourages things like comments saying nothing but "thanks" or "welcome". But there's no need (IMO) to actively go and edit all chatter out of old posts.
If that had been a suggested edit, I'd definitely have rejected it under the "no improvement whatsoever" reason.
 
@Randal'Thor wasn't there a tag edit alongside of that?
 
It's an answer, so no tags :-)
 
Ah my bad, I thought it was part of TLC's crusade against mistagged
 
10:20 AM
@Randal'Thor IMO it's more like "kudos if you want to, but not strictly necessary". It is encouraged to edit noise out of posts.
3
 
Noise should be edited out of posts and should certainly not be rejected as a SE
2
Though I wasn't actively looking out that sort of post, I just stumbled across it
 
I disagree.
 
And you're welcome to disagree, odd thing to disagree on though since it is network and site policy not to include that sort of noise in posts
 
I agree that if "Hope that helps" is the only thing there that needs to be edited on a not recently active post, it's rather pointless; but if the post has been bumped, or there are other things to be improved as well, by all means go and fix all the problems
 
@TheLethalCarrot I'm pretty sure we don't have a site policy to edit all "thanks" etc. out of old posts.
@Mithrandir That's what I'm saying.
 
10:25 AM
@Randal'Thor Well maybe not, I dunno but it is site policy by extension of network policy if nothing over rules it
 
Somehow I feel like it's not just noise in this case either. I don't usually say "hope that helps" as just an empty "there you go, have an answer" remark. I must have had a particular reason for saying it which adds to the overall effect of the post.
You might as well say the first line should also be edited out, as it's more commentary on the answer than an actual answer itself.
 
Maybe but I couldn't see it, it looked like pointless noise, especially considering it was on it's own
And no the first line "sets the scene" of the answer
 
I feel like the last line sets the tone too. But maybe that's just because I happen to know the answerer ;-)
 
Oh you do!? They a nice guy?
 
I couldn't possibly comment.
 
10:49 AM
@Edlothiad (wrt your last comment on that Dumbledore question) to be fair while you can provide an answer based on the movies, books obviously provide more detail on the matters
Especially for movies 5+, since tbh, they kinda suck, especially the sixth.
And the final battle.
But that's a rant for another day.
 
Never bottle up your rants, it's unhealthy.
2
 
I thought the films were excellent. Far superior to the books. But that wasn't the point of my comment. My comment was really in reply to the tone of the other users comment.
 
@Mithrandir ok. That battle sucked big time and flying around with flashes of light, cheap-anime-style was stupid, whereas the "Well, Voldemort, you miscalculated all the way, and you're going down like a turd" feel in the books was much better.
 
(Disclaimer: I have never watched the films past the second one.)
 
@Edlothiad ah, ok! Sorry if you got me wrong then!
 
10:53 AM
I thought the battle was awesome, excellently choreographed fight scenes, built the tension excellently and culminated in a great show down.
 
@Mithrandir ah, well, sorry then
 
@Jenayah I didn't get you wrong, I understood you perfectly.
 
@Edlothiad well, it's ok on the choreography and filming aspect. It's just not at all in the spirit of the universe
 
Seemed to fit the idea of the characters and story ageing with the audience pretty well.
 
@Edlothiad well, I can see why they went from "Voldemort is killed by his boucing-back curse in a duel that lasted exactly two seconds" to "woohoo let's fly everywhere and lights and break shit". More money to be made.
What I'm saying is, it still sucks.
 
11:02 AM
@Randal'Thor No urgent need maybe, that's why it's highly appreciated when someone still bothers to do so.
 
11:20 AM
@SQB Yeah, it's complicated, because every shapeshifter works differently, so you have to read their rules very carefully, and read the rules of the monster for whether it has a natural weapon, an extraordinary ability, a supernatural ability, a spell-like ability, casting specific spells, casting spells as if with a class level, or lots of others.
Some people get never-ending rules discussions about that in giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563198 because there's always new people who don't understand those rules.
 
@Jenayah I know, and what I'm saying is, the books suck.
2
:)
 
@Edlothiad to each his own :p
 
SQB
11:38 AM
Good story, badly written.
 
11:51 AM
Harry Potter isn't a bad story; it's just ridiculously overrated.
4
 
@Mithrandir agreed, don't know why this one somehow made it up to the stars when others haven't
My best guess is that it's one of the last series to stick with "pointy hats, cauldrons, toads etc" wizards, which can be deemed "ok maybe I'll understand that" by both children and parents, but I can't really say anything more
 
@Jenayah Probably the marketing. It's generally hard to get foreign books in here, but they sold the last three volumes of HP in original in all the ordinary bookstores the day they were released, so I could buy them easily.
 
@b_jonas well yeah but you don't just market something that hasn't been a hit already
Isn't there a story of how JKR fought bit time to get the first one published? Or is that a myth?
 
Yeah, she got rejected several times.
 
Do you know how much I struggle to get my hands on a few English language books? Libraries only get them from a donation of books remaining from the inheritage of a dead person when nobody among their heirs wants the books; plus that one large batch when British Council left Hungary and gave its library away.
Books published to the east of the iron curtain are cheap, due to remains of the artificially cheap books in the communist regime, so we're not used to pay for the expensive books on the west.
 
12:00 PM
@b_jonas well shit :/ but apart from buying them in a library (which is a thousand times better, in my opinion) you can still buy them on Amazon or something, right? Just in case?
 
@Jenayah I can order on the internet, and sometimes I do when I'm sure it's a really really good book (like TAOCP, which I bought as an e-book) but they aren't cheap.
 
Unrelated - what's the flag for asking a mod to move comments to chat? The custom one? I'm talking about scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/193253/… which has like 10 comments which eventually made it to chat, bt that chat thing should IMO be moved further up in the comments (am I making sense?)
 
There's a sci-fi story I'm searching for, but I only vaguely remember it. I associate it with Scott Alexander, but perhaps only because of slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/… . My vague memories are:
 
@Jenayah yeah that's not possible - the ones moved to chat could be deleted, though (flagged as NLN)
 
There's a mexican drug lord who creates a new very addictive drug. His agents sells the first dose free, and anyone who takes the first dose will do literally anything to get the money to buy more. And the further doses cost a lot.
 
12:05 PM
@b_jonas wait, what? You mean because of shipping fees or stuff? Otherwise there's no reason for the book to be more expensive in Hungary rather than in the US or what?
Even if in the case of TAOCP it's not exactly your random $5-novella
 
Obviously people soon catch onto that, and few people are willing to try the first dose. But the best way for addicts to get money is to try to sell the drug to others. While most are unsuccessful, a few happen to be very good at marketing that they can convince new people to try the drug.
 
SQB
@b_jonas I refuse buying TAoCP until it's done.
 
@Mithrandir NLN sure, strictly speaking, but since you've read the chat, maybe you agree with me that OP (and others) could take a look at it and learn stuff? I'm thinking of that "can I ask a question even if didn't read the book" thing
 
So the drug spreads a lot, mostly in the United States. After a significant amount of the American population is infected, the drug lord reveals that this was only the first part of his master plan. He can actually directly mind control the addicts. They become his willing slaves, they all try to travel to Mexico and get through the border. There's a lot of losses, but he still gets a huge personal army doing his bidding.
 
@b_jonas that sounds like a pyramid scheme...
 
12:08 PM
What's that? The Art of Cole Porter?
 
@NapoleonWilson Ahah
 
That's the first part of the story. I don't really remember how it continues, but there's some sort of confrontation between a protagonist and the drug lord, and it turns out he's not a human but, uh, perhaps some sort of cactus person? I'm probably imagining that last part.
 
SQB
@b_jonas If only there were a website to ask such a question. :) But seriously, sounds good enough for a question on main.
 
But he's definitely not your stereotypical mad scientist with a lab coat and protective glasses.
More like the sort of guy who does unspeakable experiments on himself, just slightly different ones than on his unfortunate test subjects, perhaps with alien or superpowers.
I really don't know.
@SQB Yes, but I want to put a bit more effort into searching on my own before asking.
 
The Art of Computer Programming? I really doubt that. Or maybe not.
 
SQB
12:11 PM
@b_jonas Why not do that in parallel? You can ask on main, meanwhile continuing to search. If you find it, self-answer.
 
@Jenayah Yes, the problem isn't with TAOCP, it's with thin booklets that cost twice the price of a full novel here.
 
@NapoleonWilson oh, I thought you were joking, sorry mate!
 
SQB
And now that you've asked here, we're curious too.
Which reminds me that I still need to ask you what that addictive book was.
 
@Jenayah It's not just the shipping fees. Everyone complains about shipping fees whenever they're ordering anywhere except amazon or East Asia.
 
@Jenayah Well, no need to be sorry. The first comment was a somewhat of a joke. ;-)
 
12:12 PM
@b_jonas I'll have to dig further because that "I'm fuelled by the number of addicted people" rings a bell.
 
It's that books had a really low price during the communism, so people expect that books are cheap, and the publishers still have to publish books somewhat cheaply, raising the price only slowly.
@Jenayah I didn't say that. They just get money from selling. That's not even a sci-fi part, it happens in the real world too.
@SQB mail me and I'll tell
 
@b_jonas He can actually directly mind control the addicts is what set me up to it, but indeed upon rereading it's not the same thing!
 
SQB
@b_jonas Yeah, you told me to. I didn't do that yet.
 
Though, google suggest it's really The Art of Computer Programming, which would be quite boring. ;-) This is SciFi and Fantasy chat. ;-)
 
@NapoleonWilson so what? It is a book :)
Well, kind of several books
 
12:16 PM
@SQB Ok, but I was deliberately vague enough that there might be more than one book that matches my description.
 
anyway
@b_jonas how is that by the way? Were books made cheap for propaganda purposes?
 
@Jenayah But not a SciFi and Fantasy book, this isn't books.SE. I expected some groundbreakingly awesome story everyone but me knows around here. ;-)
 
SQB
@b_jonas e-mail sent.
 
@NapoleonWilson It's not boring. Look, sci-fi and fantasy is just a little hobby for me, and I don't even spend that much time on it. But TAOCP is a bible to live by, by a master prophet who produces perfect books, a masterpiece of which most of the content I don't understand, but even the parts that I do understand make me better.
 
@NapoleonWilson alright ;)
 
12:17 PM
@Jenayah I don't really know. Ask on Politics or History or something.
 
I've...never read it, I admit.
 
@b_jonas yeah I'll probably do that, I guess.
Sometime
 
SQB
That's a pretty succinct and accurate description of TAoCP, from what I gather.
 
And at the current state of my experience, I'm not sure how much it can still give me.
@b_jonas The "boring" was more jokingly, though. ;-)
I really expected some kind of SciFi book to be talked about there.
 
@NapoleonWilson as someone once said, the good thing with CP is that you never stop learning ;D
 
12:20 PM
Sure sure.
 
And as a totally unrelated person also said, "He who thinks he knows, will never learn anymore."
 
I can also recommend a few books to partly fill the holes of the volumes 4B..5 inclusive that Knuth haven't written yet, but none of them are even close to the quality of TAOCP.
@Jenayah He means he doesn't know enough to start reading TAOCP yet, he needs a beginner book first.
Knuth's official current estimate is that volume 5 will be ready in 2025. I hope.
 
Is he even still alive?
 
SQB
By then, you mean?
 
I guess.
 
SQB
12:25 PM
Donald Ervin Knuth ( kə-NOOTH; born January 10, 1938) is an American computer scientist, mathematician, and professor emeritus at Stanford University. He is the author of the multi-volume work The Art of Computer Programming. He contributed to the development of the rigorous analysis of the computational complexity of algorithms and systematized formal mathematical techniques for it. In the process he also popularized the asymptotic notation. In addition to fundamental contributions in several branches of theoretical computer science, Knuth is the creator of the TeX computer typesetting system...
The man's 80.
 
@NapoleonWilson Yes. He has recently celebrated his 80th birthday in Sweden. www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/news.html
 
@b_jonas are you sure of that? Might just be me translating that wrongly in my head, but "And at the current state of my experience, I'm not sure how much it can still give me." sounds like, "I've gone a long way, c'mon, I know that stuff" (no offence, Napoleon)
 
During the celebration, a good organ player played the first full evening long musical composition that Donald Knuth has ever published.
 
SQB
Wow.
 
@Jenayah I think he was joking. ;-) (I wouldn't put it as bluntly, though.)
 
12:26 PM
A piece called Fantasia Apocalyptica.
 
@NapoleonWilson damn I'm not good at getting the jokes today, am I
 
@Jenayah I hear what I want to hear. I reject to parse it the other way, because Napoleon Wilson can't possibly mean that.
Nobody can know too much to not find something in the Knuth books that teaches himself something.
 
Something maybe, but you'd have to read all the rest, too.
And the parts that haven't already found their way into my practice might no doubt be quite interesting and insightful theoretically, but beyond that...
 
@NapoleonWilson All the rest is written in such an enjoyable way that it's worth to read.
 
Sure sure.
 
12:30 PM
I don't care what anyone says, but I really want to have the TAOCP originals, and will buy the new volumes and new editions blindly as they're published.
 
Oh hey @Randal'Thor :)
 
I want them on my virtual bookshelf.
 
@Jenayah Hi hi :-)
 
@b_jonas That's your good right to do. I'm sure they're more worth to have in the bookshelf as physical things than many other works.
Or...virtual.
 
That's odd. I'd left myself lurking in this room while putting the computer to sleep - was expecting still to be here when I switched it back on, but here I am dropping in again.
 
12:32 PM
@NapoleonWilson Yeah, the physical would be nice.
 
Then again, I have a bookshelf full of physical tomes from my university time that are...just sitting there now. We have the world's biggest scientific library right under our fingers and before our eyes now.
 
@Randal'Thor the mice clicked on the "leave" button while you were sleeping.
 
@Randal'Thor Hi Rand
 
SQB
I especially like how in 1977, he wasn't happy with the galley proofs of the new print of TAoCP, so he proceeded to write a new typesetting system, Tex.
 
@Jenayah No, the tab was still open when the computer came back on.
 
SQB
12:35 PM
Kicked for inactivity?
 
@SQB Oh, are we talking about Mr Knuth?
 
@Randal'Thor Professor Knuth, or Prophet Knuth.
 
If you say so ;-)
 
Well, I think. I don't really know how titles work in English. But junk journal spam quoting the title of your articles published in maths journals always calls you professor.
And unlike me, Professor Knuth is a real university professor.
He's retired, but still gets the title.
 
Heh, true. Or Dr.
 
SQB
12:42 PM
@b_jonas ah yes, I've actually read the addictive book. I liked the premise, liked it until a bit after [redacted] dies, then skipped the middle, then liked the conclusion.
It wasn't [redacted]'s death that turned me off. I think it was the writing style and the convoluted "I know that you know that they know that I think that you think that they think" cycles that kept on going.
 
@b_jonas Sure. My winkyface was more directed at the second part.
 
12:57 PM
@SQB Like I said, that's the problem. If you already read it, then it's more addictive. Any hint could trigger you to re-reaed.
 

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