JEE Chemistry Club - 2018-03-30

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JavaScriptCoder

12:07 AM

0

Q: Why can zinc oxide be reduced to zinc by coke only?

An year ago and before that too I had read in my books that zinc oxide can be reduced to $\ce{Zn}$ by coke only. I was always interested to know about this and today it just popped into my head from nowhere. I have searched about this on the internet and as I correctly recall, back then there was...

metal reactivity metallurgy reagents

@Abcd read my comment: why can't you electrolyse $\ce{ZnSO4}$, which you get by reacting with sulfuric acid?

Why can't you reduce $\ce{ZnO + H2SO4 → ZnSO4 + H2O }$ and then electrolysing the $\ce{ ZnSO4}$? Or do you mean only one step? — JavaScriptCoder 4 mins ago

@JavaScriptCoder commented back

JavaScriptCoder

ok thnx

@Abcd I believe not, because $\ce{x-}$ would undergo this process sometimes: $\ce{H2O + X- -> OH- + HX}$ am I right or not?

@JavaScriptCoder I will get back to you with my "source reactions"

JavaScriptCoder

ok

Oh @JavaScriptCoder

Is it a direct consequence of Activity series

H2 cannot displace Zn

JavaScriptCoder

12:15 AM

I'm in 8th grade, take my comments with a grain of salt

but yeah

that's what I think

@JavaScriptCoder you know about orbitals and stuff?

JavaScriptCoder

yes

stuff is vague though

Oh, they teach that so early in your country

JavaScriptCoder

no

I learned it by myself

so?

Oh thats great

JavaScriptCoder

12:16 AM

Ok, I will now go on for a while

Chem was my first love.

I met it when I was five. It was awesome.

Wow, same here, my first love too

JavaScriptCoder

I never let go.

:)

Now I'm aspiring USNCO

That's the trials for the IChO team

So its still your favourite subject?

JavaScriptCoder

I'm banned because I'm too young

yes

@JavaScriptCoder when can you appear for it

JavaScriptCoder

12:18 AM

next year

it's my favorite subject

so do you know "higher level" organic and inorganic chemistry?

Like the stuff we discuss in this room

JavaScriptCoder

@Abcd About the $\ce{X-}$ thing I would think it is more basic actually

some of it

not all

Link me to a paper of ICho , I wanna see how it is

JavaScriptCoder

lol the spam filter is getting at me for talking too much

Yeah, too quick messages arent accepted

JavaScriptCoder

12:21 AM

Here is the theoretical portion: icho2017.sc.mahidol.ac.th/pdf/IChO2017_TheoreticalTasks.pdf

and the practical portion

icho2017.sc.mahidol.ac.th/pdf/IChO2017_PracticalTasks.pdf

but we get to go to an air force base if we do well enough on the National USNCO test

to study up

this is the 2017 test of course

@JavaScriptCoder What is the advantage of clearing IChO

JavaScriptCoder

you get to go to every college imaginable in the US

12 people per year make it

also makes finding a chem job slightly easier

Cool

So do you do practicals regularly too? Or are practicals much easier than theory?

JavaScriptCoder

for IChO? Not really, more at the national USNCO level

those problems are easier

and you get more time

yup

good luck!!

user image

After ozonolysis ketone is produced, what happens after that? What does $\ce{H2O2}$ do?

JavaScriptCoder

12:33 AM

ok

I still haven't gotten your answer on the $X-$ question

@Abcd linked it

I think X- is more basic

I think the $\ce{H2O2}$ lends an oxygen to the ketone, changing it to OH.

idk

I don't think I know this, bad at synthesis stuff

answer for either of the questions?

@JavaScriptCoder Linked what?

@JavaScriptCoder I devised a mechanism: It goes this way:

JavaScriptCoder

your X- question

OH- attacks the H of C

JavaScriptCoder

yeah thats what I thought

Then C- is there

so H2O attacks it

Then $\ce{OH2+}$ is attached to C

H2O re attacks

JavaScriptCoder

12:42 AM

Then one H leaves?

And takes away an H

JavaScriptCoder

yeah :)

H2O: The best acid and the best base

whatever you want it to be, it is

@JavaScriptCoder I am up with something else currently...I will get back to you on that later

JavaScriptCoder

ok

I'll attempt the experiment sometime

@JavaScriptCoder which one?

i.stack.imgur.com/2SbR6.png Now I am thinking about this

JavaScriptCoder

12:44 AM

the X- one you were talking about

chemistry club is tomorrow :) but UofI ppl are coming to talk

@JavaScriptCoder I don't think it will be non-industrial :P

@JavaScriptCoder UofI?

JavaScriptCoder

University of Illinois

I go to a laboratory school

@JavaScriptCoder whats that?

JavaScriptCoder

basically it used to be a school run by the university to do education experiments

now its self-run and still does education experiments

stuff like this:

flowofhistory.com

what are education experiments?

JavaScriptCoder

12:47 AM

stuff like this also:

New Mathematics or New Math was a brief, dramatic change in the way mathematics was taught in American grade schools, and to a lesser extent in European countries, during the 1960s. The change involved new curriculum topics and teaching practices introduced in the U.S. shortly after the Sputnik crisis, in order to boost science education and mathematical skill in the population, so that the technological threat of Soviet engineers, reputedly highly skilled mathematicians, could be met. The phrase is often used now to describe any short-lived fad which quickly became highly discredited. ==...

my school started this

however it wasn't well received

we also hybridize our curriculum

although I'm not sure about that either

because they teach stuff like matrices along with algebra I

intersting

@JavaScriptCoder why

JavaScriptCoder

It taught abstract concepts a lot

and not enough basics

oh

JavaScriptCoder

its like trying to build a pyramid of Giza on a 10ftx10ft foundation

and, as someone who self-learned through precalc, that's easy for me, but other people may find it hard.

yup

JavaScriptCoder

12:52 AM

anyways, why don't we get back to chemistry

your alcohol reaction is interesting

$\ce{NaBH4}$ is a good reducing agent for carbons

we reduce from 0 for ketones to -1 for alcohols

@JavaScriptCoder yeah, its a good reagent in OC

Whats the mechanism

user image

JavaScriptCoder

the BH4- attacks the O i think

to become OH and BH3

not sure though

@AvnishKabaj your opinion

you've been pretty inactive

oh well

@Abcd do you know how to determine the pH of $\ce{X-}$? Should I go about dissolving some $\ce{I2}$ or something?

got to go to bed. See y'all at 8:00 UTC-8 coordinated time

1:10 AM

@JavaScriptCoder no idea :/ .. Try to find the pH of HX

then use the fact pKa+ pKb= 14

@GaurangTandon Could you please furnish me with the mechanism of conversion of cyclohexene to the dimer in the presence of $\ce{H2SO4}$

@JavaScriptCoder Good night :)

1:26 AM

@JavaScriptCoder Seems right

NaBH4 reduces the aldehyde but it doesn't actually reduce the aldehyde it reduces an intermediate . Which I can never remember

2:13 AM

@Abcd sure chemistry.stackexchange.com/a/92031

does it help?

5 hours later…

7:18 AM

Hey! This might be a bit off topic but here it goes. Could you suggest some material to refer for NSEC? Is JEE level preparation enough for clearing NSEC? Are there any online material or any of that sort? please do suggest

Eashaan Godbole

7:38 AM

@Abcd It depends on the environment of the species in question. Related: Schwarts reaction, Finkelstein reaction

1 hour later…

9:04 AM

@JayanthBala practice past year papers of IChO, buy MS Chouhan for basics

Don't buy Arihant question bank for IChO - it has lots of typos and problems are mostly copied

main problem that I faced in in IChO is predicting the products of organic reactions

so it takes practice only

and the rest is only speeding up your calculations in physical chemistry

9:23 AM

@GaurangTandon Okay...And I'm presently in class 10 (going to 11th) and have started organic chemistry. In what order should I go about learning differnet topics?

9:39 AM

@J_B892 MOT

Goc

Isomerism

Do those three first

EAS

Electrophilic elimination

It helps if you cover Nucleophilicity before elimination

10:07 AM

@GaurangTandon so you gave IChO?

@GaurangTandon thanks

10:28 AM

@J_B892 you're just going to 11th. focus on your basics for first six months. and solve reference books ahead of time. be ahead of your class.

@Abcd i did not give IChO, but I did give INChO. Though I don't wanna discuss anything about myself+INChO. Yet feel free to ask me anything general about INChO itself

@Abcd welcome

10:45 AM

@GaurangTandon I'm actually part of a coaching institution so my basics are quite strong in physical chemistry

@GaurangTandon I have added asking why the reagents are different as a separate section: EDIT. What else should I add?

@Gaurang Should I remove the why not -OCH3 Part?

@J_B892 definitely, that's a good thing. Then it's time to practice and practice only.

@GaurangTandon Please see:

0

Q: Prins reaction mechanism

I am trying to figure out the product for the following reaction: Its a Prins Reaction. My proposed mechanism for it is: In my second step, that particular carbocation is formed since $\ce{Ph}$ is an electron-withdrawing group. Mechanism looks neat enough, but the reaction given in Wiley'...

organic-chemistry reaction-mechanism

I edited my edit part too. Check if thats okay! Thanks

@MollyCooL wanna allow me edit

10:53 AM

@MollyCooL Please see^

?

Okay go ahead

@Abcd lol, never saw a prins reaction before. Will try grasp it. wait 15mins

@MollyCooL ok, after 10mins

Okay! Says page not found @Abcd

@MollyCooL Give me a minute

@GaurangTandon @MollyCooL here:

0

Q: Prins reaction mechanism

I am trying to figure out the product for the following reaction: Its a Prins Reaction. My proposed mechanism for it is: In my second step, that particular carbocation is formed since $\ce{Ph}$ is an electron-withdrawing group. Mechanism looks neat enough, but the reaction given in Wi...

organic-chemistry reaction-mechanism

Someone downvoted it. Stupid downvoters. #angry

11:09 AM

alright i'll check it in five minutes

@MollyCooL i have edited it, have a look

Hmm, and that person flagged it too ....

@GaurangTandon Is IUPAC and purification of organic compounds and qualitative and quantitative analysis very important? I am using cengage for reference.

@MollyCooL also please don't write "v/s" in the title; almost seems like a fight between two chemicals

@GaurangTandon haha

Hoffman vs Saytzev

2

@J_B892 IUPAC? you meant the nomenclature

@Abcd yeah exactly. "Hoffman vs Saytzev: the final showdown"

11:14 AM

Lol okay! Looks perfect thanks man! @GaurangTandon

@GaurangTandon Yees

Why a downvote? I hate Downvoters who don’t give any reason. Will check now @Abcd

@MollyCooL I hate them too

@J_B892 nomenclature is very important; and QA and purification takes only 2-3 days to mug up, so unimportant

@MollyCooL glad to help, i made another change just now though; that image was too big and seemed to add little value

@GaurangTandon Does benzene ring stabilise carbocation chain attached to them

11:17 AM

@Abcd carbocation on sp2 carbon is unstable

@GaurangTandon edited

True, how do you resize? @GaurangTandon

@Abcd avnish has an answer

1 min ago, by Abcd

@GaurangTandon Does benzene ring stabilise carbocation chain attached to them

@MollyCooL ^^^

@MollyCooL read chemistry.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3044/…

Oh! You deleted the images too?

11:20 AM

@Abcd yes

@MollyCooL yah they're irrelevant

i described it in words

and the images were toooooo big

Then why image source😂

@MollyCooL oops fixed

okay now?

@MollyCooL you both totally take my upvote; question's perfect

@Gaurang yes okay. Thanks!

@Abcd do you mean benzyl carbocation or phenyl one?

Ivan has a good point

Certainly benzyl carbocation is stabilized by resonance

Any specific reason why only basic medium ? @GaurangTandon

11:38 AM

@MollyCooL hydroxyl anion will abstract the acidic proton of phenol

hydroxyl anion is more populous in basic medium

Phenoxide doesn’t have a proton right? Maybe you meant phenol? And that the H will be abstracted

Or am i missing sth @GaurangTandon

phenoxide will form from phenol

i see no contradiction

Yes, phenol loses a proton forms phenoxide. Losing the proton(abstraction by OH-) is favourable in basic medium. Is that what you meant?

@GaurangTandon

1 hour later…

1:13 PM

@MollyCooL yep!

2 hours later…

3:02 PM

@GaurangTandon As of now I have finished IUPAC nomenclature and QA and purification. Should I move on to GOC or Isomerism next?

@J_B892 GOC first; then Isomerism; make sure to grasp GOC 100%

GOC is fundamental to organic

3:29 PM

@GaurangTandon What is "QA"?

@Abcd Qualitative analysis

whatever

→ 1 message moved to trash

4:10 PM

@MollyCooL are you in fiitjee?

JavaScriptCoder

@AvnishKabaj what is fiitjee?

4:30 PM

@JavaScriptCoder Serious Students aspiring for success with a good Rank in the IITs and other Competitive Entrance Exams understand the importance of starting early in their preparation for IIT-JEE .

A coaching for the IIT entrance

@Avnish Yes i am. Though i didnt start early ;(

@MollyCooL niiiice

That makes it three kids

Over here

@Abcd how do you move messages to trash?

Lol ikr. All 3 moving from 11 to 12?

4:47 PM

Yep

@GaurangTandon you go to resonance, right?

JavaScriptCoder

@AvnishKabaj I am one also. Although I don't live in India

:)

name this molecule:

user image

have fun!

@AvnishKabaj yep

" Benzoic acid & salicylic acid can be distinguished by :" what?

answer is Br2 water and FeCl3

but I'm unsure how that works

any clues?

JavaScriptCoder

lets see

i think salicylic acid will not decolorize br2 water

correct?

and i've no clue about fecl3

user image

JavaScriptCoder

4:57 PM

please let me think for a bit

user image

@JavaScriptCoder of course i was just posting what I know

JavaScriptCoder

yeah

I think benzoic acid would precipitate a salt if combined with FeCl3

salt of what?

JavaScriptCoder

pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/…

i think this

its insolble in water

am I right?

5:09 PM

benzoic acid + FeCl3 shouldn't do EAS without the Cl2? and the EAS will lead to 2-chlorobenzoic acid (meta product)

ok it's time to bed here

JavaScriptCoder

see ya

Hi @DivyankaS.Chaudhari

Which grade are you in?

Anonymous

@MollyCooL Meh, haha you people don't seem to be xD People like me exist as well

Anonymous

11 going to 12

Anonymous

But running late in portion

Anonymous

5:22 PM

Who else are 11 going to 12?

@DivyankaS.Chaudhari Are you in Fiitjee?

Anonymous

Nah, but I have a distance course there! xD

Anonymous

I'm in Allen

Woah

In Kota right?

Anonymous

Nah

5:23 PM

So?

Anonymous

Kota isn't that good?

Anonymous

Mumbai

@DivyankaS.Chaudhari JEE population just goes there like a flood

Anonymous

Ikr, but it's not really worth it

Anonymous

You're in class 11 as well?

Anonymous

5:24 PM

Who is in class 11?

Anonymous

Just curious

@DivyankaS.Chaudhari going to 12 in a week

@DivyankaS.Chaudhari Mollycool me and Av.

Anonymous

Great!

I was xD till10th boards. Then shut down all my gaming shizz

@DivyankaS.Chaudhari

Anonymous

Goddd, seeing people like you make me think what am I doing with my prep xD

5:52 PM

→ 8 messages moved to trash

→ 8 messages moved to trash

I just remove the
Irrelevant messages
My own messages- the questions whose answers I found myself

I hope you guys don't mind :-) Sorry.

6:18 PM

Nah man! Tho i dumped it all, I haven’t prepped much. Its gonna be real tough

@DivyankaS.Chaudhari

JavaScriptCoder

@MollyCooL seeing people like you guys makes me prep like crazy to become like you people when I actually go to high school

6:40 PM

:/ there are kids at my class over at fiitjee who started their journey from 8th grade

They aren’t kids tho - nerds

@JavaScriptCoder I actually regret starting late. Don’t do that if you’re aiming for sth high

JavaScriptCoder

7:14 PM

lol that’s what they call me: nerds

I take it as a compliment of the highest order

Also, I make other nerds feel awkward around me

JavaScriptCoder

7:42 PM

@MollyCooL thanks for the compliment

I started my journey at age 5

but that was because I fell in love with chemistry

2 hours later…

9:31 PM

Which carbocation is more stable?

user image

I feel the first one because there is conjugation possible there...

Please help me :"(

2 hours later…

11:29 PM

@Abcd thanks

@JavaScriptCoder CS ?

Why is $180^\circ$ orientation of p orbitals is preferred to their $0^\circ$ orientation with respect to each other? — Abcd 48 secs ago

@Abcd The bonding pair between Oxygen and carbon will actually be on oxygen so there's another posive charge idt that conjugation is possible

@Abcd it's given in clayden under ant periplanarity

Or maybe periplanarity under elimination

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Mar '1830

JEE Chemistry Club

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