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10:23 PM
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A: Why do Ashkenazim say a b'racha for each of the four cups?

MichoelThe Magen Avraham (OC 474:1 and similarly in Taz there) explains that each of the four cups is a separate mitzva, and it is therefore considered as if he had in mind specifically not to exempt the other cups with his Brocha. The Pri Megadim adds that it is preferable to actually have this in expl...

 
That seems like an odd assumption. Karpas is different from Maror is different from Korech, and Matza is different from Afikoman, but no new brachot there.
 
@DoubleAA Karpas is not a mitzva, and the Brocha for Matza/Maror covers Korech because we don't have a psak whether halacha is like hillel or not. Most say afikomen doesn't need a Brocha.
 
What?? We're talking birkot hanehenin here.
 
@DoubleAA See the Lubavitcher Rebbe's Haggada by Matza based on Shulchan Aruch Harav 575:18 that one does not even have to have in mind when eating the matza that it covers the afikomen. It would appear he holds that it is consisered a chiyuv but not a mitzva huge.
@DoubleAA The Minchas Shlomo (vol. 1 18:6) asks that. See there at length.
 
sam
Doesn't the Ran hold this?
 
10:23 PM
@sam Hold what?
 
@Michoel A "mitzva huge"?
You can't drink between the first two cups? Don't you mean the second set of two cups? We hold it's muttar to drink between the first two.
 
@DoubleAA That's my phone's autocorrect at work, but I can't remember/figure out what it was supposed to say :-)
 
@Michoel :) I don't know what you mean though. How could something be a chiyuv and not a mitzva?
 
@DoubleAA Why not? It's something we are obligated to do, but not considered a mitzva that requires a Brocha. See Levush there that writes that it doesn't need a brocha because it's only a zeicher.
 
@Michoel Again I'm confused: are you talking about brikot hamitzvot or birkot hanehenin? This whole question is only about the birkot hanehenin aspect (hagefen) and you keep giving me sources about birkot hamitzva. (Unless you are referring to the Griz? It doesn't seem like it.)
 
10:23 PM
@DoubleAA See Beur Halacha 473:3. Once he starts reciting the Hagada he may not drink until the end.
@DoubleAA I was addressing your question asking why karpas/afikomen etc. are different.
 
@Michoel How did that answer the question from karpas and afikoman? All you showed is they don't get birkat hamitza. Neither do 4 Kosot! And yet they still get separate brachot rishonot. (BTW for rashi who thinks afikoman is the ikar mitzva, would he say hamotzi again?)
@Michoel Re drinking: that only works for Ramban. For Tosfot who permit drinking then and who require 4 seperate hagefens, you haven't solved the problem. Even for Ramban it's not such a proof because since you're saying the whole haggada on the kos, it's as if it's one long amira al hakos, just like havdala or kiddush has multiple amiros on the same kos.
 
@DoubleAA The Gr"a's reason actually comes from the Ramban. The Biur Halacha I cited asserts the Mechaber holds like the Ramban.
@DoubleAA The Minchas Shlomo I quoted before deals with that - so what that each cup is a separate mitzva, we are talking about bircas hanenen?
 
@Michoel I know. It's an ok diyuk in the mechaber, but doesn't answer for the other rishonim.
@Michoel "so what that...": That's the whole basis of the argument you quote from the Magen Avraham!
Very well. Minchat Shlomo's answer is logically consistent (since it presumes that no such special takkana was enacted for the other food cases), though not very convincing considering we have no evidence of such a special takkana before the last century. Moreover, if such kavvana worked, there would be no need to read the ketuva to make a hefsek at weddings.
BTW the gra (aside from only answering according to Ramban) only answers for the bracha on the 2nd kos. What about the 4th kos?
 
@DoubleAA Mishna Berura does not address that, but the Ramban (Milchamos Pesachim Chapter 10 in the name of the Geonim) who is the source of the Gra writes that one cannot drink between the third and fourth cup until after "Birkas Hashir"
 

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