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1:59 AM
$\pi$
 
 
1 hour later…
3:12 AM
@AvnishKabaj thanks you for telling me an alternate solution
@AvnishKabaj can you tell me how to upload images without switching to desktop mode (in chrome)
 
 
2 hours later…
4:48 AM
@LoopBack haven't been able to find any other method
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
5:46 AM
@sammygerbil are you there?
 
6:06 AM
@LoopBack it's 7 a.m. in the UK. I doubt gerbils are available at this hour.
 
6:50 AM
@JohnRennie morning!
 
@Jasmine morning :-)
 
@JohnRennie as we go away from nucleus the energy of orbital increases?
 
@Jasmine We normally take the energy at infinity to be zero. That means the energies of the orbitals are negative. So for example the energy of the hydrogen 1s is -13.6eV. We have to supply 13.6eV of energy to remove the electron from the 1s orbital to infinity.
So as we move from 1s to 2s to 3s etc the energy increases because it becomes less negative.
 
@JohnRennie this sign thing always puzzles me
 
@Jasmine you're not the only one :-)
2
Look at it this way: suppose we have a hydrogen atom with an electron in the 1s orbital.
 
6:57 AM
@JohnRennie yes
 
To move that electron away from the atom, i.e. to ionise the atom, we have to add energy. Specifically we have to add 13.6eV of energy.
 
As we increase quantum number then kinetic energy of electron decreases?
But potential energy increases? And total energy decreases?
@JohnRennie yes
 
@Jasmine be a little cautious about kinetic energy of electrons in bound states. Remember that an electron in an atom is not a little ball whizzing round the nucleus. It is a fuzzy blob that is delocalised over the whole atom.
So the interpretation of kinetic energy for an electron bound to an atom is somewhat subtle. Normally it's best to just talk about total energy.
 
@JohnRennie total energy will increase for sure?
 
Yes. If we start with the electron in a 1s orbital then add 13.6eV to remove the electron the electron energy is now 13.6eV greater than it was before.
2
 
7:02 AM
Yes I understand this that total energy will increase
@JohnRennie this is a cool explanation
 
Hello
 
@Jasmine one of the slightly amazing things about this is that a hydrogen atom weighs less than the mass of a proton plus the mass of an electron ...
@user64829 morning :-)
 
What's up? I have a doubt in grade 12 rotational dynamics, is it appropriate to ask it here?
 
@JohnRennie how?
For total energy to increase.. either or both P.E and K.E should increase
 
@Jasmine to separate the proton and electron we had to add 13.6eV of energy. But Einstein told us that mass and energy are related by his famous equation $E=mc^2$, so that 13.6eV of energy added a mass of $13.6/c^2$.
So a hydrogen atom has a mass that is smaller than the summed masses of a proton and electron by $13.6/c^2$. And it really does. If you measure the mass of a hydrogen atom to very high precision you find it really is smaller than $m_p + m_e$.
@user64829 yes, it's fine to ask here :-)
 
7:08 AM
Cool, 1 sec
 
@JohnRennie ok
Please tell me that can we relate increment in T.E with change in P.E and KE
 
@Jasmine suppose we consider a classical system of a planet orbiting the star. Now there is no ambiguity about KE and PE because it's just classical mechanics, and we can ask what happens to the KE and PE as we increase the orbital radius.
 
@JohnRennie yes.
 
imgur.com/a/rzztOwB Here is the problem and the solution. What I didn't was, how is the angular momentum of rod=mva?
didn't get*
 
@user64829 I'll just sort Jasmine's question and get back to you...
 
7:10 AM
Sure
 
@Jasmine if you calculate the PE and KE for a planet in orbit round a star you find that that the PE is $-GMm/r$ and the KE is $+GMm/(2r)$.
So the PE is negative, and the KE is positive with a magnitude that is half the KE.
 
@JohnRennie yes
 
If you increase the radius then the PE increases (becomes less negative) and the KE decreases. However the PE increases by twice as much as the KE decreases, so the total energy PE+KE increases (becomes less negative).
 
@JohnRennie yes.. can we apply the same to bohr's model of electron?
 
@Jasmine yes, Bohr's model is effectively just classical motion and exactly the same argument applies.
 
7:15 AM
Oh! Thank you!
 
In Bohr's model as we move away from the nucleus the PE increases and the KE decreases just like our planet. The total energy increases because the PE changes by twice as much as the KE.
 
I got it..
 
But as I say, in a real atom KE is a somewhat vaguely defined quantity.
 
Actually my sir got himself little confused due to the signs
 
@Jasmine you have to be very careful about signs when dealing with PE. My approach is always to ask are we adding or removing energy from the system.
 
7:18 AM
Jasmine JEE aspirant?
 
@JohnRennie adding energy to electron means taking it to higher energy level.. and removing means taking it back to energy levels closer to the nucleus..
@user64829 yes..
 
@Jasmine yes.
 
@Jasmine Cool, so am I
 
Oh great..
 
Remember that if we start with an atom that has an electron in an excited state that atom will emit a photon and decay to the ground state. That photon carries away energy, so energy is removed from the atom as the electron moves to a lower energy state.
 
7:24 AM
@JohnRennie ok
 
@user64829 while the rod is falling freely, before the end hits the stop, it behaves like a point mass, and the angular momentum of a point mass is $r \times p$
In this mass the linear momentum $p = mv$ and the distance $r$ is just $a$. So we get $L=amv$.
 
Oh, ok, got it. I have another question.
 
Yes?
 
Why can't we use law of conservation of energy instead of law of conservation of momentum? I used $1/2 m v^2 =1/2 I ω^2?
I tried it, got a different answer.
 
Because the support that the rod hits exerts an external force on the system so energy is not conserved.
Angular momentum is conserved about the point A because the distance of the force to point A is zero, so if we use A as our origin for taking angular momentum then the torque the support produces is zero.
 
7:33 AM
@JohnRennie So, you mean it's kind of a inelastic collision?
 
@user64829 yes
 
One sec.
Okie, got it Thank you :-)
In case the rod was stopped by clamping it somewhere in the middle, even momentum wasn't conserved right?
 
@user64829 linear or angular momentum?
 
both?......
 
Linear momentum is conserved if and only if no external force acts on the system
Angular momentum is conserved if and only if no external torque acts on the system
Linear momentum is simple because it's always just $mv$. But with angular momentum it is always defined relative to some point that we choose as our axis.
In this case we chose the point A as our reference because the force acts through that point so the torque due to the external force is zero and that makes the calculation easy.
 
7:50 AM
Thanks, it's crystal clear now.
 
If the force wasn't actin through our reference point then there would be a non-zero torque and the angular momentum wouldn't be conserved.
 
Got it
 
hello
I've some confusion regarding the string and the Classical Mechanics
when the string changes the direction of force, then it's possible that it may lead to incorrect calculations if we use Vectors?
Let me show my doubt by drawing a clear figure after that I'll ask
 
@AbhasKumarSinha OK ... ?
 
8:09 AM
@JohnRennie see this one:
Either I'm seriously damn confusing, or overthinking about that :P
 
OK ... ?
 
the 2 statements are contradictory
+ T - Bg = Ba and -T + Bg = Ba
these 2 statements ^
I just changed the vertical direction to horizontal one
 
You need to choose your sign conventions to be consistent.
 
Let me draw another one this time, this time another one
okay?
 
For $B$ the sensible choice is that upwards is positive, so the tension is positive (upwards) and the gravitational force is negative (downwards).
Then for $A$ to keep things consistent we have to choose left as the positive direction, so the force $F$ is positive and the tension is negative.
 
8:16 AM
hmmmm......
 
The length of the string is fixed, so if the distance B moves is positive then the distance A moves has to be positive as well.
 
oh my bad
lol yeah
I was messing with the sign conventions :P XD
Thanks :) :D
 
Sign conventions confuse everyone :-)
 
XD yeah :)
@JohnRennie So if I keep tension positive for one object it should be negative for another object to which it has been connected?
 
@AbhasKumarSinha in this case yes.
 
8:21 AM
@JohnRennie thanks :) Can you give some examples where that should not be the case, for example, the tension is positive for both?
 
@LoopBack I am going out soon but will be back in about 3 hours (12 noon in UK).
 
@AbhasKumarSinha that for example
 
@JohnRennie thank :)
I've completed this chapter but never got this kinda thing in my mind after completing the chapter and even doing complex questions I get this kinda stuff in my mind :)
XD
thanks :)
 
 
2 hours later…
10:02 AM
Hello, anyone? I have simple doubt.
The angular momentum of a rotating body is increased by 20%. What will be increase in its kinetic energy?
If we do it in a long procedure we get the answer as 44%
If we take logarithms and differentiate, we get 40%. Why so?
 
@user64829 When you differentiate the second way, you're presumably setting (change in a function) = (derivative) (change in function argument).
That's an approximation, which is why you get a different answer.
Also, there's no long procedure. The exact answer is just (1.2)^2 = 1.44.
 
10:17 AM
By long procedure I meant taking AM'= 6/5 AM and going it
I didn't get you properly....
 
Can you explain what you mean by take logarithms and differentiate?
 
Hold on, I'll send a picture
Sorry it took a while
KE is kinetic enegry, AM is angular momentum
 
Your third line is wrong.
$$ \frac{dy}{y} = 2\frac{dx}{x} $$
But $dy$ and $dx$ are infinitesimals. You cannot just replace them by $\Delta y$ and $\Delta x$
 
Oh
When can I do it and when can I not?
Because I've used tis method many times before, never faced such problem
this*
 
10:33 AM
In effect what you're doing is approximating $(1 + 0.2)^2$ by neglecting the quadratic term i.e. you're using $1 + 2*0.2$ as an approximation for $1 + 2*0.2 + 0.2^2$
This works only when the quadratic term is small compared to the linear term.
 
Oh, now I get it
Thank you again John sir.
 
11:13 AM
@JohnRennie are you here?
@sammygerbil are you free now?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable hello
 
@sammygerbil this question.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable what is your difficulty?
 
@sammygerbil in bs we are said to get the curl of a vector field if its zero. But in these scenarios how do you come to know if its conservative or not?
Or the line integral through closed curve is zero.
Can be assigned as $\vec F =- \frac{\partial v}{\partial x}$ etc. But how do you get them here . Whats the idea here?
 
What a complicated question! ... My knowledge of the use grad, div and curl in these situations is not very good. I am not sure how to tackle this question. I may have to leave it for John Rennie to deal with. Like you, I am a bit stumped with this question!
 
11:25 AM
@sammygerbil whenever you see johnrennie please ping me. In this time we both are audiences of jr show.
2
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable :)
 
@sammygerbil whatever do you recall degrees of freedom?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Depends on the situation, but probably yes.
 
@sammygerbil number of degrees of freedom of a rolling ball in a plane .
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable If it is rolling without slipping the answer is 1 (I think). What do you think?
 
11:29 AM
@sammygerbil its better to put the actual question. Im getting back.
 
Wait : if there are forces which act on it and can move it sideways then the answer is 2.
 
@sammygerbil im unable to find the question. What about two collision problems?
@sammygerbil are you still free to solve them ?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Yes sorry, telephone rang. Go ahead.
 
@sammygerbil question number 8.53
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Do you have any ideas how to solve this? How to start?
 
11:43 AM
@sammygerbil by the way do you still keep telephones thats costly here and perhaps abandoned by persons here we keep mobiles only.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable I prefer a landline. But most people have a smart phone. Trouble is, they are glued to them!
 
@sammygerbil the initial velocity is $\sqrt(2gh)$
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable good
Can you work out the velocity with which the ball rebounds and the angle wrt the horizontal?
 
@sammygerbil i recommend this to flip 90 degrees.
Sorry the figure is upside down
@sammygerbil whatever i have to go for now. Will come back and discuss about this. Have a nice day professor good bye.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable ok. I am getting some distracting phone calls. cu later.
 
 
3 hours later…
3:13 PM
@sammygerbil are you free now?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable hello
 
@sammygerbil you are from uk right?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Yes. I am English but I live in Scotland between Edinburgh and Glasgow, the 2 biggest cities.
@Nobodyrecognizeable Are you ready to resume work on the collision problem?
 
@sammygerbil i see different cultures whenever i see johnrennie he says morning all the time and you say hello despite being from same place .
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable I do not think that is cultural. That is an individual preference.
 
3:18 PM
@sammygerbil in that case i'm asking is the horizontal ar vertical velocity both change or just the horizontal velocity just changes.
Well after this question i'll talk to you. Lets go for the problem.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Only the component of velocity which is perpendicular to the incline changes.
The component parallel to the incline is not changed.
This means that since $e\ne 1$ the collision does not obey the law of reflection (angle of incidence = angle of reflection).
 
@sammygerbil is it because the rection force by the pulley is perpendicular or why does this happen?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Pulley? Is there a pulley in this question? I don't see one.
 
@sammygerbil sorry i meant inclined plane.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Yes. We must presume that the plane is frictionless (because we have not been told anything about the coefficient of friction) so the only force it exerts on the ball is the normal reaction force.
 
3:25 PM
@sammygerbil /*the statement should be like this*/ is it because the rection force by the inclined plane is perpendicular or why does this happen?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Yes. See my last reply. (If there were a friction force the parallel component of velocity would change also.)
 
@sammygerbil just had to post it. Sometimes i might be very slow at replying because im replying from mobile. Anyway the perpendicular component is $ev_0sin(\theta + \alpha)$
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable The 1st step in the solution is to calculate the velocity and angle with which the ball bounces off the incline.
 
What is $\theta$? How did you get this result?
 
3:33 PM
@sammygerbil just assuming . Momentums should be same.
 
It might be best to use the reference frame which matches the incline - ie x axis is down the incline and y axis is perpendicular to the incline.
Then $v_y=ev_0\cos\alpha$ after the 1st collision and $v_x=v_0\sin\alpha$.
 
(The diagrams are not helping me!)
 
Why on earth the picture flips. Gotta take that again.
 
Do you agree with $v_y$ and $v_x$ if we use the co-ordinate system I suggested?
 
3:40 PM
Im taking some time.
 
I would draw the incline as horizontal. Then the initial velocity $v_0$ is inclined at $\alpha$ to one side of the vertical and the final velocity (after collision) is inclined at a greater angle on the other side of the vertical.
 
@sammygerbil fine . Totally agreed.
 
Next we need to find the time of flight, which we can do using $v_y$ and the component of $g$ in the y direction, which is $g_y=g\cos\theta$.
 
@sammygerbil you mean $g = gcos \alpha$ right?
 
Yes sorry $\cos\alpha$.
So time of flight is $t=2v_y/g_y=2ev_0/g$.
 
3:47 PM
@sammygerbil fine.
 
Then distance travelled along (down) the incline we get using $x=ut+\frac12 at^2$.
Here $u=v_0\sin\alpha$ and $a=g_x=g\sin\alpha$.
So $x=2ev_0^2\sin\alpha/g+2e^2v_0^2\sin\alpha/g=2e(1+e)v_0^2\sin\alpha/g$.
This is the distance of the next impact along/down the incline from the 1st impact. The vertical distance is $x\sin\alpha$.
 
Put the $v_0$ to get the answer .
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable That's right.
 
@sammygerbil got that. You guys all over the uk talk in english or there are other languages as well .
/*disclaimer /* ill just be doing trash talk for the rest . If you have something important or less important you may leave. But i request you to stay.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable But we haven't got the factor $\sin\alpha$ right. I think when the question says below the original point of impact it does not mean vertically below (as I assumed) but down the incline. So we did not need to multiply $x$ by $\sin\alpha$.
@Nobodyrecognizeable English is by far the most prominent language, and everyone (except recent immigrants) is able to speak it. But there are 2 or 3 other minor British languages which are taught in schools. These are Welsh and Scots Gaelic and Manx (spoken on the Isle of Man) which is similar to Scots Gaelic.
 
4:06 PM
@sammygerbil $\alpha$ is just the angle of inclined plane which is resting on a horizontal plane.
 
The Scots and Welsh are very proud of their heritage so they use both English and their native language on their road signs.
@Nobodyrecognizeable Yes $\alpha$ is angle between incline and horizontal.
 
@sammygerbil are you anyone amongst them?*them==welsh or scots*
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Meaning?
 
Or are you pure English?
 
Yes I think so. I don't speak any other languages, and my parents and grandparents were all born in middle England.
 
4:10 PM
Although languages dont make matter. Minds do. Your works do.
@sammygerbil how many festivals do you have as a Christian? (In a year) or how many holidays in a year?
 
For us we have more than 50 per year
XD
 
@AbhasKumarSinha :d are you bengali ?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Most British people are Christians in name only and don't go to church. We celebrate Christmas and Easter, that is all.
 
@AbhasKumarSinha then you have less than us . Perhaps our is less than 5p : xD
 
4:13 PM
@Nobodyrecognizeable indian?
 
@sammygerbil good friday or something dont you get official holidays?
@AbhasKumarSinha of course bengali. Living in west bengal.
 
@AbhasKumarSinha indian? :xD
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Yes Easter Holiday is Good Friday and the following Monday. We also have state holidays such as New Year's Day and a few Bank Holidays including the 1st Monday in May.
 
4:15 PM
do queen's guards laugh? or they get holidays?
 
We also celebrate Mothers' Day and Fathers' Day but these are on Sundays.
 
as far I've seen queen's guards, no one messes with them
 
@sammygerbil do you have holiday on every sunday ?
 
@AbhasKumarSinha They get holidays but they don't laugh when they are on guard duty.
 
XD most of the holidays this year are on Sundays
 
4:17 PM
@AbhasKumarSinha do you have navaratri now ?
 
@sammygerbil how they hold their laughter? is there any punishment if they laugh or what?
@Nobodyrecognizeable yes
10 days continuous holiday vacation
XD :)
 
@AbhasKumarSinha well happy navaratri then. I remember I remember :D
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Saturday and Sundays (the Weekend) are holidays for most people, and there is usually no school at the weekend, but some people continue working. Banks now open on Saturday mornings, and shops open on Sundays - about 20 years ago these didn't happen. Only small corner shops were allowed to open on Sundays.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable thanks :) well the native bengalis celebrate that much better and in a beautiful way :) the whole celebration is beautiful as far I've seen them
 
@AbhasKumarSinha after cancelling the sundays @sammygerbil will have less holidays . :D dont take offence.
 
4:20 PM
hahahaha XD Lol not him but we too XD
 
@AbhasKumarSinha yep... Sometimes your neighbourhood gives you rest also.
@sammygerbil do you continue reading/studying now ?
 
the idols in our area is done by native bengal community and they's ordered an idol of 10 KG gold and 15 KG silver and platinum too If I remember
 
@AbhasKumarSinha Guards are professional soldiers so they have good self-discipline. They would be shouted at by their commanders if they laughed but no I don't think they would be punished.
 
oh okay :)
 
Ok just coming back . @AbhasKumarSinha don't let him go $@him = @sammygerbil$
 
4:24 PM
@Nobodyrecognizeable No I rarely study. Only refresh my memory by answering questions. Sometimes that means I need to do some research.
 
LAMO
lol XD
@sammygerbil
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable why you don't want him to go?
nothing just tagged for fun XD LOL! :P @sammygerbil
@sammygerbil what's the time now?
 
Almost 5:30 in the afternoon.
 
my brother works in london he sleeps when I'm studing and vice versa during his work
 
4:27 PM
@sammygerbil just joking man. I said itll be trash talking .
@AbhasKumarSinha i see u are preparing to live with your brother. :xD
@AbhasKumarSinha xD
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable nah! I'll stay here ofcourse the british weather doen't suits me much :P very cold
 
@AbhasKumarSinha few years ago some guys made something which you need i guess.
 
I guess to recall it this is something whichll make you survive with your brother.
 
what?
I didn't get it
 
4:31 PM
Well i guess thats sweater : xD
 
@AbhasKumarSinha That's true. I'm shivering.
 
XD
as far I love most is Japan
 
@AbhasKumarSinha youll have to invent a helicopter then perhaps.
 
that's the most beautiful nation with most disciplined citizens and beautiful place to explore
@Nobodyrecognizeable jokes aside, i've tried once making it :P
I'll be back in 10 min
 
@AbhasKumarSinha perhaps the place is exploring its depth.
Or in other words youll have to fly with your helicopter when you see the earthquakes coming your way. :xD.
@sammygerbil anyway had a lot of fun. But as i say-:
Goodbye professor have a nice day.
 
4:35 PM
@Nobodyrecognizeable What do professors call their students?
2
 
@sammygerbil goodbye professor
Good Night or whatever it is, probably afternoon
@Nobodyrecognizeable GN
 
@AbhasKumarSinha goodnight
 
 
1 hour later…
6:03 PM
12 hours ago, by John Rennie
@LoopBack it's 7 a.m. in the UK. I doubt gerbils are available at this hour.
@sammygerbil What does "gerbils" mean??
@sammygerbil ???
 
@Abcd Gerbils are rodents about the same size as rats.
 
@sammygerbil Is John Rennie joking in that message?
 
My pseudonym refers to a pet gerbil which I killed by accident when I was young. I called him Sammy.
2
 
@sammygerbil Oh ...
@sammygerbil Is that you in the picture or your child?
 
@Abcd Probably. His knowledge of gerbils is not very good because they are usually active around dawn and dusk.
 
6:12 PM
@sammygerbil he is calling you gerbil if you see the context XD.
 
@Abcd That is me. A street photographer offered to take a photo of me with his monkeys.
2
 
@sammygerbil that must be like 20 years ago right??
 
@Abcd More like 50!
 
@sammygerbil Oh then its a great memory of childhood :) !! '
 
@Abcd Yes a great memory for me. The monkeys look bored, they've probably forgotten about it by now. Actually I'm pretty sure they're dead.
2
 
6:56 PM
@Nobodyrecognizeable Conservative Forces question : I thought I would look at this question again.
P is constant velocity. There is no acceleration. 1,2,3,4,5 are correct. Options A, B are possible.
R is circular motion with constant angular velocity. So 2,3,4,5 are correct. This is the only option anyway for A and B - that's a relief.
S is a parabola - eg projectile motion. Only 5 is correct. So it looks like option A is the answer.
 
7:16 PM
Q is an ellipse again with constant angular velocity. Calculating $\ddot r$ shows the force is central so angular momentum is conserved. So is total energy E. Options 2,5. That also agrees with A.
Therefore answer is A.
Q is a spring force orbit, ie $F \propto r$ not $F \propto 1/r^2$. The force is directed toward the centre of the ellipse, not toward one focus. $1/r^2$ orbits do not have constant angular velocity, they have constant areal velocity (Kepler's 2nd Law).
 
 
4 hours later…
11:08 PM
@sammygerbil when you come back please answer "does conserved here mean does not change over time ".
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable yes
 
@sammygerbil dont you sleep?
Its 12 at uk i guess.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable yes. later. that's right.
 
@sammygerbil anyway you come back in the early mornings here. Please go and sleep man. Ill talk to you ater. Goodbye
 

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