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RubenVerg

05:51

@Adám are there layouts without an underscore so that people use F instead?

Adám

I don't think so, but people (me and others included!) might prefer using f.

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. I've been writing _ using f from before _ was available by other means on APL layouts.

RubenVerg

hmm, okay, do you also use M for |?

Adám

yes, only

And ' when writing APL (but the normal quote key when writing other languages).

And Shift+3,5,7 for <=>

The only APL glyph I do not type the APL way any more is ! which I type with Shift+1 instead of APL+Shift+KeyToTheRightOfZero

2 hours later…

Richard

07:57

So, does Dyalog 20.0 include a new F key for those who have an APL keyboard and maybe another key anticipating for the under operator? ;)

Adám

08:35

@Richard Yes for F. We will probably defer other additions for now, but I'd expect ⊇ before ⍢ — but we might do a larger switcheroo at once. The current thinking is:

┌────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬─────────┐
│  ⌺ │  ⌶ │  ⍫ │  ⍒ │  ⍋ │  ⌽ │  ⍉ │  ⊖ │  ⍟ │  ⍱ │  ⍲ │  ⍠ │  ⌹ │Backspace│
│  ⋄ │  ¨ │  ¯ │  < │  ≤ │  = │  ≥ │  > │  ≠ │  ∨ │  ∧ │  × │  ÷ │         │
├────┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬──────┤
│Tab    │  ⍰ │    │  ⍷ │    │  ⍨ │    │    │  ⍸ │  ⍥ │  ⍣ │  ⍞ │  ⍬ │  ⊣   │
│       │  ? │  ⍵ │  ∊ │  ⍴ │  ~ │  ↑ │  ↓ │  ⍳ │  ○ │  * │  ← │  → │  ⊢   │
├───────┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴──────┤

In contrast, the current layout is:

┌────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬────┬─────────┐
│  ⌺ │  ⌶ │  ⍫ │  ⍒ │  ⍋ │  ⌽ │  ⍉ │  ⊖ │  ⍟ │  ⍱ │  ⍲ │  ! │  ⌹ │Backspace│
│  ⋄ │  ¨ │  ¯ │  < │  ≤ │  = │  ≥ │  > │  ≠ │  ∨ │  ∧ │  × │  ÷ │         │
├────┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬─┴──┬──────┤
│Tab    │    │    │  ⍷ │    │  ⍨ │    │    │  ⍸ │  ⍥ │  ⍣ │  ⍞ │  ⍬ │  ⊣   │
│       │  ? │  ⍵ │  ∊ │  ⍴ │  ~ │  ↑ │  ↓ │  ⍳ │  ○ │  * │  ← │  → │  ⊢   │
├───────┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴┬───┴──────┤

RubenVerg

09:13

@Adám ooh, nice to see some things are getting shuffled

what does quad question do?

Adám

@RubenVerg Lazy evaluation of its operand.

B. Wilson

@RubenVerg Only mentioned I've ever seen of it is here: dyalog.com/blog/2015/09/…

RubenVerg

09:53

@Adám interesting

Adám

For now, it is unlikely to arrive any time soon, and I'm also more and more leaning towards wanting things that govern how things are executed to be system names rather than primitives. imo, & should have been ⎕TSPAWN.

RubenVerg

it does feel a bit like a system-y stuff

Adám

Most ridiculous, I find ⍠ which has the sole role of modifying the behaviour of system functions. What would a primitive do that‽ Use ⎕OPT!

RubenVerg

10:23

that's just because you don't use Variant for primitives!

Adám

Indeed.

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