The APL Orchard

Fawn Locke

12:04 AM

I was working on a web version

Adám

But do these tables bring anything over what's on APL Wiki?

Fawn Locke

Will, do. Yeah

Adám

How so?

You won't be able to keep up grouping them in fours.

Fawn Locke

I'm just experimenting atm. Also, I was aiming for something very similar to NuVoc using the APLWiki and Dyalog's docs as sources

A good handful of the primitives don't have explanations on the apl wiki, I'll probably have to write some myself as a result

Bubbler

APL Wiki one links to APL Wiki article of each functionality. The one in Dyalog docs will link to Dyalog doc pages, which precisely contains Dyalog's behavior and nothing else

Adám

12:17 AM

@FawnLocke An attempt at groups of four:

+-×÷
*⍟⌈⌊
|○!?
=≠≡≢
<≤≥>
∧∨⍲⍱
↑↓⌷⍴
⊂⊃⊣⊢
⊆∪∩~
⍳⍸∊⍷
/\⌿⍀
⌽⊖,⍪
⍉⊥⊤⌹
⍎⍕[]
(){}
¨⍨⌸⌶
⍣@⌺&
.∘⍤⍥
←⋄→⍝
¯⍬⎕⍞
⍺ ⍺⍺ ⍵ ⍵⍵
∇ ∇∇ # ##

Fawn Locke

That's nice. I'll use that. I was gonna create a separate table of odd shapes but this is better

Bubbler

I guess [] and {} can occupy single cell each, and () can be omitted (like how J NuVoc does)

Adám

]ucmds and )syscmds

There's maybe missing ' or ''

And : (which has three uses)

And ; (which has two/three uses)

@Bubbler Logged as 19542

Bubbler

' can be omitted too

An additional last row could be ]ucmd )syscmd : ;

Fmbalbuena

12:33 AM

@Adám elif and else?

Adám

@Fmbalbuena :ElseIf and :Else

Fmbalbuena

@Adám ok

label syntaxerror

L:

raises error

@Adám ^^^^^

Adám

Well, you'd need to show a bit more of your code.

Fmbalbuena

Try it online!

rak1507

starting to learn apl by learning about tradfns is a terrible idea

Fmbalbuena

12:37 AM

tradfns?

Adám

@Fmbalbuena You need to wrap your code in ∇FunctionName…∇

rak1507

rather than try and write APL like you'd write any other language, try and learn how to write APL like it's APL

Fmbalbuena

@Adám oh i forgot

call function?

Adám

@Fmbalbuena Just its name.

Fmbalbuena

@Adám i don't understand.

Adám

12:39 AM

Try it online!

Fmbalbuena

@Adám Try it online!

Adám

@Fmbalbuena TIO uses an old version. You can use 0∘(819⌶) instead of ¯1∘⎕C

Fmbalbuena

@Adám new interpreter for Non-REPL APL

Bubbler

Or install Dyalog APL locally

Adám

@Fmbalbuena I recommend that ^

Fmbalbuena

12:42 AM

but i don't know how to execute non-repl APL.

Adám

@Fmbalbuena You just enter the code as on TIO, then enter F to run it.

rak1507

^ no need to use tradfns

@Adám no, they mean locally

Adám

@rak1507 Now try doing multiple things for one command…

@rak1507 Yes, that's it.

@Fmbalbuena I'd avoid gotos:

∇MyFunction;f
:Repeat
  f←¯1∘⎕C ⍞
  :Select f
  :Case '/help'
    ⎕←'The help command does so and the command and /exit exits the program'
  :Case '/exit'
    :Leave
  :Else
    ⎕←'use /help'
  :EndSelect
:EndRepeat
∇

Notice also ;f in the header which declares f as a local name.

Fmbalbuena

ok sorry but i wanted to make the code more golfy

rak1507

@Adám help←{...} ⋄ exit←{...} ⋄ cmds←'help' 'exit' ... ⋄ main←{cmd←⍞⋄cmd∊cmds:(⍎cmd)⍬⋄∇⎕←'invalid command please try again'} or something

Adám

12:45 AM

@Fmbalbuena Then you want to do what rak1507 wrote with the dfn.

rak1507

(or just use guards not exec if you don't like exec)

Fmbalbuena

Try it online! what happened?

Adám

@rak1507 Sure, but it is not fun to debug or maintain. Oh well, to each their own.

Fmbalbuena

Dyalog APL/S-64 Version 17.1.36845 Classic
For i86_64
Created: Aug 15 2019 at 00:27:20
Copyright (c) Dyalog Limited 1982-2019
      ⎕PW←32767
      ⎕TRAP←0 'E' '⍞←⎕DMX.(↑DM,¨'''' '''',⍨⊂Message,⍨'': ''/⍨×≢Message) ⋄ ⎕OFF(128⌊⎕EN)'
      '#'⎕NS⎕FIX'file:///home/runner/.bin.tio.dyalog'
/help
help
/exit
line(14,0) : error AC0008: error (VALUE ERROR) executing line "F"
                                                               ^
Complete: 1 error.
DOMAIN ERROR: There were errors processing the script

Adám

@Fmbalbuena No need to dump that here.

@Fmbalbuena You moved F from Input to Code. Note that TIO's APL is also using a REPL, and Input is simply what you'd type into the REPL.

If you used a full installed REPL, you'd get much better error messages too. Plus interactive debugging.

Fmbalbuena

12:49 AM

VALUE ERROR: Undefined name: /help

rak1507

that's bc it exits when you do /exit and then tries to evaluate the next line(s) /help as APL

Adám

But I'm a bit surprised it includes / there.

Fmbalbuena

@Adám wdym?

rak1507

it doesn't

Adám

@Fmbalbuena Do you have a TIO link for that last VALUE ERROR?

Fmbalbuena

12:51 AM

@Adám uhhh

can i post to CGCC tips?

Bubbler

@Adám Must be this

Adám

Oh, OK. No issues then.

@Fmbalbuena You don't have to ask for permission to post on CGCC.

Bubbler

@Fmbalbuena But what tip?

Adám

Yeah, I'm curious too.

Fmbalbuena

@Bubbler For golfing APL code.

Adám

12:53 AM

Yeah, what's the idea you have?

Fmbalbuena

Post?

Bubbler

You can post anything but if it is not a proper tip for golfing in APL then it'll be deleted

Adám

@Fmbalbuena Don't worry, we won't steal your idea. Feel free to write what it is here in chat, and we might be able to help you make it even better!

Fmbalbuena

ok so i'm posting but i have to do so i post and gtg.

Stack Exchange Feeds

0

Q: Dyalog APL - Read from .txt file

i'm new to dyalog APL and i'm struggling to read some input from an .txt file under Windows 10. The input data has the format: number name newline I want to store every line as an array element and in theory the input←⎕NGET 'input.txt' 1 function i'm using should work just fine. According to the...

Adám

12:58 AM

@Fmbalbuena If you have to leave now, I recommend not posting until you have time to hang around and follow up on any immediate feedback.

Fmbalbuena

@Adám ok

Memory:

[APL (Dyalog Classic)], 168 bytes

<!-- language-all: lang-apl -->

    ∇F
    L:
    f←0∘(819⌶)⍞
    :If'/help'≡f
    ⎕←'The help command does so and the command and /exit exits the program'
    :Elseif'/exit'≡f
    :GoTo E
    :Else
    ⎕←'use /help'
    :EndIf
    :GoTo L
    E:
    ∇

[Try it online!][TIO-kwve3n7j]

[APL (Dyalog Classic)]: dyalog.com
[TIO-kwve3n7j]: tio.run/……

sorry for big message

Bubbler

It is not a golfing tip

Adám

Maybe they want help golfing it?

Fmbalbuena

on-topic because this

Adám

@Adám Confirmed then.

Fmbalbuena

1:09 AM

ok but short time

Adám

Understood.

Fmbalbuena

is possible to shorten?

Adám

28 mins ago, by rak1507

Fmbalbuena

Actual result:

∇F
L:
f←¯1∘⎕C⍞
:If'/help'≡f
⎕←'The help command does so and the command and /exit exits the program'
:Elseif'/exit'≡f
:GoTo E
:Else
⎕←'use /help'
:EndIf
:GoTo L
E:
∇

@Adám idk

Adám

You don't know?

Fmbalbuena

1:11 AM

But how?

Adám

Not sure why he posted an image, but you should be able to read his code, no?

Fmbalbuena

@Adám i can read but has a lot of unknown commands

Adám

Not sure which "commands" are unknown to you, but extensive documentation exists.

Fmbalbuena

unknown commands: {}[Diamond][---0--- like]

i can't find from this

@Adám ^^

Adám

{…} is an anonymous function called a dfn.

Fmbalbuena

1:20 AM

ok and diamond?

and 0 like?

Adám

I was able to find them on that language bar, and took screenshots of them, which I posted above.

But you know, if you use a full installed system, you can press F1 on them to go straight to their documentation.

Fmbalbuena

@Adám i't opens google help

Adám

@Fmbalbuena I suspect you pressed F1 in your browser rather than from inside an installed APL REPL.

Fmbalbuena

@Adám sorry i't don't opens documentation.

Adám

@Fmbalbuena OK, then you can use the bot: ⋄]help ⍬

TryAPL

1:23 AM

@Adám help.dyalog.com/18.2/Content/Language/Symbols/Zilde Symbol.htm

Adám

Well, that actually worked :-)

Fmbalbuena

⋄]help ⋄

TryAPL

@Fmbalbuena help.dyalog.com/18.2/Content/Language/Defined Functions and Operators/Statements.htm

Adám

Ouch.

Fmbalbuena

what happened?

Adám

1:25 AM

Bug.

Fawn Locke

@Fmbalbuena ((⊢+*)⌿↑∘(⍳,⍥⊂⍴⍨)) is how I'd write that in APL btw. Which can be golfed

Fmbalbuena

nope i't don't compress strings or decompress

Adám

@StackExchangeFeeds Should I add these to APLcart?

Cv⎕NPUT⍨∘⊂D
(⊃∘⎕NGET 1,⍨⊂)D
(⊃⎕NGET)D

Fmbalbuena

ok sorry

i have to really gtg.

⋄/

TryAPL

@Fmbalbuena /

Fawn Locke

1:35 AM

What's the nicest way to write ⍳⍵-1 as a single carriage? I have ⍳⍤+⍨∘¯1 so far

Adám

@Fmbalbuena For your information, this bug is logged as issue 19054. I'll get back to you when it is fixed.

@FawnLocke ⍳⍤-∘1

Fawn Locke

Thanks. That one escaped me

adr

2:12 AM

Hey there again. Reworked my solution (not the most beautiful code) https://git.sr.ht/~adregan/advent-of-code-2021/tree/mainline/item/6.apl

However, the large numbers are coming out like so `1.693022482E12`. Is there any way to avoid that?

Adám

@adr ⎕←0⍕1.693022482E12

TryAPL

@Adám
 1693022482000

Adám

Note the leading space, so you may want to add 1↓ in front of that.

@adr {c←9⍴0 ⋄ c[⍵] ← 1 ⋄ c} is {~@⍵⊢9⍴0}

@adr state[⍳7] ← 1⌽⍵[⍳7] is state[⍳7] ⌽⍨← 1

@adr Since you only use new once, you might as well inline ⍵[0] into state[8] ← new giving state[8] ← ⍵[0] which'll line up nicely too.

@adr state[6] ← state[6] + ⍵[7] is state[6] +← ⍵[7]

adr

Thanks! I'll play around with that.

adr

2:31 AM

The thorn was the ticket. It'll take me some time to digest those other suggestions; looking forward to it.

phantomics

Hi, I'm proxying POST requests to a Dyalog Conga server and I'm getting this error message: Unable to Send for client SRV00000000.CON00000002 (1008): ERR_INVALID_OBJECT

Does anyone know what could cause this?

Adám

@phantomics I'll ask Brian or Bjørn, but it'll be a few hours…

phantomics

3:04 AM

@Adám Thanks

Stack Exchange Feeds

5:09 AM

0

Q: Historic APL glyphs and their meanings

Unicode has the following APL characters that don't seem to be used in modern APL. What functions or operators did they represent? Are they still supported for backwards compatibility, but undocumented? I have also seen some of these in code that's no longer in use. Quad circle ⌼ Del tilde ⍫ Qua...

apl

phantomics

5:29 AM

@StackExchangeFeeds Does anyone know? ⍙ can be used in symbols but did any of the others there have a traditional use? I figure they might have loaded all possible combinations of some characters into Unicode regardless of their use.

There's a bunch of stuff the question didn't mention as well, like ⍇⍡⍛⍘

Adám

8:47 AM

@phantomics INVALID_OBJECT usually means that you're attempting some invalid action on an object

Are you trying to do an i.Send 'SRV00000000.CON00000002' (somedata)? Is it a custom server or Jarvis?

@phantomics What mode are you using, HTTP or raw?

Fmbalbuena

@Adám issue in github or What?

Adám

@Fmbalbuena No, our internal issue tracker.

Fmbalbuena

@Adám link

Adám

9:03 AM

> internal

Fmbalbuena

internal?

ok

Array/List/Tuple in APL?

rak1507

all the same

Fmbalbuena

@rak1507 Array = List ≠ Tuple ≠ Array

rak1507

there are no tuples in apl

Fmbalbuena

ok

Adám

9:08 AM

And lists are just 1-dimensional arrays.

Fmbalbuena

array syntax?

xpqz

Day7: gist.github.com/xpqz/1727f7c5baaa5ed3a93b5f0bdea82c8f

Golfy, but part 2 is slow doing the brute force thing.

Adám

@Fmbalbuena 10 20 30 makes a 3-element vector.

rak1507

faster if you use n*(n+1)/2 for triangular nums

github.com/rak1507/Advent-Of-Code-APL/blob/main/2021/…

Fmbalbuena

@Adám ok but 2d array is possible?

Adám

9:15 AM

@Fmbalbuena Only through function application: height width⍴data

(We're working on a proper multi-dimensional array notation.)

Fmbalbuena

ok but how many commands there are in APL?

Adám

Depends on what exactly you count as "a command".

E.g. is - one or two "commands"? 10-2 and -2

Fmbalbuena

A command in APL dyalog classic

Adám

That doesn't help. And Classic is identical to Unicode (which you should use!) when it comes to vocabulary.

APL has functions (which can often be used in two distinct ways) and operators (which sometimes have multiple more-or-less related, and sometimes unrelated, meanings too). In addition, there are system functions and operators and constants. System and user commands, control structures and other keywords, and various special syntax.

xpqz

@rak1507 holy cold smoke, Batman - that's a lot faster...

Never heard of a triangular number.

rak1507

9:26 AM

+/⍳n                 ⍝ ⎕IO←1 based
2÷⍨+/(⌽⍳n)+⍳n        ⍝ adding itself
2÷⍨+/((n+1)-⍳n)+⍳n   ⍝ ⌽⍳n is (n+1)-⍳n
2÷⍨+/n/n+1          ⍝ ⍳n cancels leaving n copies of n+1
2÷⍨n×n+1            ⍝ formula for nth triangular num

Adám

@rak1507 Maybe I should add 2÷⍨n×n+1 to APLcart with +/⍳ as keyword?

rak1507

yeah, maybe

Bubbler

Funky: ⊥∘.5 .5 0

Adám

@Bubbler Huh, that looks wrong, but should just work.

rak1507

hmm yes, outer product with the function 5 applied to ⊥ and .5 0

Adám

9:31 AM

⍨

PyGamer0

@Adám oh really!

how is it going to work?

Adám

@PyGamer0 apl.wiki/Array_notation

xpqz

@rak1507 Apparently this is known as "Gauss' summation formula"

      ]runtime -c "xpqz¨t" "rak1507 t"
┌→──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
↓                                                                       │
│  xpqz¨t     → 3.4E0  |    0% ⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕⎕ │
│  rak1507 t → 1.6E¯2  | -100%                                          │
└───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

I'll steal your idea.

rak1507

9:58 AM

@xpqz good idea :P

PyGamer0

@Adám so how would say, 2 2pi4 would be represented? (ignore that i used p for rho and i for iota, currently on a phone)

Adám

[1 2
 3 4]

or [1 2 ⋄ 3 4]

You can also add additional whitespace/change brace style if you want.

PyGamer0

so (1 2 ⋄ 3 4)?

Adám

No, that'd be equivalent of (1 2)(3 4)

PyGamer0

oh

what about representing 2 2 2pi8?

Adám

10:05 AM

[[1 2
  3 4]
 [5 6
  7 8]]

And again, you can inline or partially inline, or add additional whitespace etc.

[[1 2 ⋄ 3 4]
 [5 6 ⋄ 7 8]]

Or [[1 2 ⋄ 3 4] ⋄ [5 6 ⋄ 7 8]]

[[1 2
  3 4] ⋄ [5 6
          7 8]]

PyGamer0

ok

this stuff is cool

xpqz

@Adám is this present in the latest 18.2 beta that just came out, do you know? I've not installed it yet.

Adám

@xpqz Even 18.0 has a model implementation for it. But in 18.2 it is really easy to access:

      ]repr -f=aplan 2 2⍴⍳4
[
  1 2
  3 4
]

Link already uses this notation to store arrays in text files.

Btw, in my opinion, one of the most exciting things about it is the ability to write a literal inline namespace, e.g. (foo:'bar' ⋄ ans:42 ⋄ Avg:+⌿÷≢)

A non-obvious use is (⎕IO:0).⍳10

Bubbler

Ooh, I like the local ⎕IO one

Adám

It'll allow "named arguments" to functions: MyFn(arg1:'abc' ⋄ arg2:'def')

Razetime

10:12 AM

@Adám wow that is.. suprising

ah the colons distinguish it

Adám

@Razetime Surprising? Not very different from JavaScript's {foo:'bar', ans:42, Avg:a=>a.reduce((x,y)=>x+y)/a.length} is it?

xpqz

Ok, I'm downloading it now... but to be clear, this will allow me to write

in the repl and inside dfns?

Adám

No.

Razetime

@Adám yep not very far off, but it's an interesting choice to have parens as the enclosing chars

xpqz

oh :(

Adám

10:16 AM

@xpqz I mean, yes, it will in the future, but you can't do that in 18.2

@Razetime What would you use?

Razetime

i'm not sure lol

Adám

{name:val} is taken.

Razetime

but it's interesting

yeah that's a dfn guard

Adám

[name:value] would work, but then the empty namespace couldn't be []

Razetime

can () actually be used as an empty namespace?

Adám

10:18 AM

Yes.

Razetime

neat

Adám

      ]repr -f=aplan ⎕NS⍬
(
)

xpqz

but a ← [[1 2⋄3 4]⋄[5 6⋄7 8]] should work?

Adám

@xpqz But if you use Link, you can put the notation in a.apla and it'd work.

xpqz

I like this a lot.

Adám

10:19 AM

@xpqz No, but a←⎕SE.Dyalog.Array.Deserialise'[[1 2⋄3 4]⋄[5 6⋄7 8]]' will.

It isn't multi-line support that's missing in 18.2 – that is fully implemented.

Getting multi-line support was groundwork for the future array notation support.

@xpqz Actually, I included a hack, so you can write:

a←{
   [[1 2
     3 4]
    [5 6
     7 8]]
}⎕SE.Dyalog.Array.Inline⍬

in both dfns and the REPL.

xpqz

For this to work with ]link, is the .apla suffix required, or will link work it out?

Adám

Yes, .apla is required. Link will also create .apla files for any arrays you ]add

This is fun:

      ({(foo:'bar' ⋄ ans:42 ⋄ Avg:+⌿÷≢)}⎕SE.Dyalog.Array.Inline⍬).Avg 3 1 4 1 5
2.8

Bubbler

10:43 AM

@Adám Btw, is Cider, as opposed to Acre, the go-to way to manage projects in the future?

Adám

@Bubbler That is my understanding.

RikedyP

11:02 AM

@Bubbler There is also Carlisle's Dado: github.com/the-carlisle-group/Dado I'm intending to have a play with both Dado and Cider/Tatin in the near-ish future

Oh my bad Dado ≡ Acre

but Dado's package strategy is to rely on GitHub, so I might lean towards Tatin

Fawn Locke

3:24 PM

Is there a good name for dyadic grade down/up

Adám

"Grade by"

Though it is really "grades"

Fawn Locke

Thanks

Adám

Other possible names are "custom grade" or "collated grade".

I wonder what you need it for…

"specified grade"

Fawn Locke

@Adám awagga.github.io/dyalog/voc

Adám

Ooh. Want feedback?

Fawn Locke

3:29 PM

I've never used dyadic grade, lol. Seems like grade by is apt, from a quick aplwiki read.

And yes, although I still have a lot to add

Adám

I'd keep the dot everywhere, to indicate if a function is dyadic-only.

E.g. LCM and And are the same function.

Fawn Locke

Good point. Does the NuVoc specify if a verb is strictly dyadic?

Adám

Yes. See e.g. E. and contrast with }:

Fawn Locke

Ah, I see.

Adám

@FawnLocke Dyadic ⍎ and ⍕ can be called "Namespace execute" and "Specified format".

Fawn Locke

3:33 PM

Ah, I didn't know there was a dyadic form. Neat

Adám

Dyadic ⌷ is Materialise, not Index.

Fawn Locke

Do you mean monadic ⌷ is materialise?

Judging from squad

Adám

Yes, sorry. Of course.

Fawn Locke

Alright, noted

Adám

I suppose you're planning doc-links, and adding operators.

Fawn Locke

3:37 PM

Yes

Adám

It'll be awesome. Definitely something I'll guide people to.

Fawn Locke

:) Well, I've been talking a lot about Dyalog's documentation lately. I'll be sure to make the changes/additions I wish to see once my personal life is less busy

Adám

Feature idea: checkboxes for categories mathematical/structural/function application/etc. and then fade out those that are not covered by selected categories.

Fawn Locke

Yep, will totally get around to that. Do you think there's value on the documentation being on the same website? I wonder if the experience is worsened by having to traverse to the wiki often

Adám

Are you going to link to the Wiki or straight to the docs, being that this is Dyalog specific?

Fawn Locke

3:43 PM

I was going to link to the wiki, but it's apparent Dyalog's docs would be better. Again, I could curate the documentation myself and source both where appropriate

Adám

I can't wait.

xpqz

@FawnLocke Nice work; would be nice if something like this was available on a ]UCMD in the repl...

Like k's ref-card

Adám

@xpqz Oh it already is ;-) Once you've installed 18.2, try ]html 'awagga.github.io/dyalog/voc'

xpqz

Sure. And on the command-line using curl -s 'https://... :)

Adám

Uh, but ]html should render it as part of the IDE.

@xpqz My early 2017 suggestion to overhauling the Language Elements page:

Same year I suggested overhauling the language bar.

But none of these separate monadics from dyadics.

In the early days of APLcart, I had primitives as single entries. Then I split them, and I'm quite happy with that decision.

Fawn Locke

4:02 PM

Look good?

Adám

Much better, though I don't really like the underscores. Also, you don't need the APL font for the names.

Fawn Locke

Yeah, would you just have the underscores be blank spaces? I think it helps emphasise dyadic-only visually, but it is ugly.

Adám

@FawnLocke How about using something lighter, like · or a greyed out ⋅?

Fawn Locke

Nice idea, thanks.

Adám

I'd rename the two "Grade by"s to "Collated grade up" and "Collated grade down".

@FawnLocke You can use local APL385 Unicode if available, and only serve it if necessary, for faster load times.

Fawn Locke

4:11 PM

Yep, yep. I was gonna get around to that. Can I ask about your reasoning for prefixing with collated?

xpqz

@Adám oh yeah so it does!

Adám

Because J has an unrelated function called "grade by".

xpqz

Fawn Locke

Right, thanks

Adám

Whereas the left argument specifies a collation order.

^ uses APL333 for text.

Fawn Locke

4:14 PM

Ooo, that's quite pretty.

Of course, nothing will ever beat the beauty of SAX2 :)

Adám

Agreed.

adr

4:47 PM

@xpqz Browsing other folks solutions to day 6. Curious about this line in yours:

⎕FR ⎕PP ⎕IO←1287 34 0

⎕IO I'm familiar with, but what are the other 2 good for? I'm having difficulty "quacking"/googling them.

Adám

@user15174083 Hi myNameJettski. If you want to participate here, please email access@apl.chat

@adr Did you try APLcarting or ]helping them? Or even pressing F1 on them?

adr

Did not know about `]help` or the f1 trick. Very handy. However:

]help ⎕FR
┌→──────────────────────────────────────┐
│https://help.dyalog.com/18.0/#search-FR│
└───────────────────────────────────────┘

which is an article on `Format Date-time` (keying on fr for french)

but F1 appears to get the gist! https://help.dyalog.com/18.0/index.htm#Language/System%20Functions/fr.htm

That's a very helpful. Thank you.

Is there a way to type APL glyphs directly into aplcart with a prefix?

Adám

@adr What OS are you on?

Also, ]help ⎕FR works for me. Let's see what the bot says: ⋄]help ⎕FR

TryAPL

@Adám help.dyalog.com/18.2/#search-FR

Adám

Odd.

adr

4:56 PM

I am on MacOS. I have yet to enable an APL keyboard system wide.

Incidentally, that's also why I had to think for a bit as to how to get F1 to show up on this awful touchbar

Adám

Poor you.

abrudz.github.io/lb/apl should do the trick.

It may look all mangled, but click ❎ and it should be alright.

adr

Great. Thanks!

Adám

18.2 will have APLcart built-in…

adr

APLCart has been extremely useful for discovering idioms, that'll be nice to have it built in.

xpqz

5:15 PM

@adr I assume you figured it out, but if not, they're useful settings for dealing with large numbers. When set like that, ⎕FR enables 128-bit decimal floating-point operations, and ⎕PP sets the print precision -- the number of significant digits in the display of numeric output.

In AoC you'll eventually run out of Dyalog's number sizes and have to resort to trickery. But these two settings get you a fair way.

Fawn Locke

i.imgur.com/hdlupQB.png Would this be correct?, The arity is the same in both commute and constant, so I'm unsure

Adám

@FawnLocke Operators are different from functions. Each one is strictly monadic or strictly dyadic. However, they can have vastly different meanings depending on operand types (array vs function) so you have to come up with a different scheme.

Fawn Locke

Gotcha

Adám

⍨ is Constant if the operand is an array, otherwise, if the derived function is used monadically, it is "self" and if dyadically, "swap". Maybe "commute" can be used for both "self" and "swap", however. Up to you.

⍤ depends on the right operand only (the left has to be a function). Array r-op gives Rank, function r-op gives Atop. However, there's no need to separate monadic and dyadic usage of the derived function.

Fawn Locke

Yeah. I'll think about it. ⍨ is definitely the most confusing of the operators

Adám

5:23 PM

Nah, ∘ is even worse, I think.

Fawn Locke

True

Adám

f∘A and A∘f are both Bind (and can only be used monadically), while f∘g is Beside (and is ambivalent).

⌸ and / (etc.) always takes a function operand, but the derived monadic and dyadic functions are vastly different.

Fawn Locke

Yep. I wonder if BQN is less confusing in this regard, with it's 1st class functions

Adám

BQN has the benefit that the type of the operands never matter; array operands are simply treated as constant function operands.

Fawn Locke

Oh, interesting

Adám

5:26 PM

And yes, each BQN operator has only one meaning.

Fawn Locke

5:36 PM

What about simply defining the operand type? i.imgur.com/kfX3Qmm.png

Adám

Sure, that'd work.

Fawn Locke

X ⍨ can be used monadically and dyadically, right?

Adám

Yes.

Fawn Locke

Thanks :)

Fawn Locke

5:52 PM

https://i.imgur.com/Ge0lAtm.png

I feel like this might get confusing, thoughts? Is it well enough expressed that Each is ambivalent, and Constant is the same regardless of arity

Adám

@FawnLocke That doesn't sound right. Each and Constant are exactly equivalent.

Maybe for operators, it is enough to split (with a dot) the few that need separate treatment for the monadic and dyadic derived functions. I think there are only 5: ⌸/\⌿⍀

Fawn Locke

They are semantically. But Each has two separate uses that I need to link to, Constant always returns the operand

Adám

Oh, I see.

Then maybe split all of them for consistency?

Fawn Locke

That sounds like a good idea

Adám

Have you considered using light dots throughout?

Fawn Locke

6:00 PM

Yes, I think it's cleaner. It would be nice to show something has strict arity besides the whitespace but /shrug

Adám

Well, none of them really do have "strict" valence. You might not be able to apply the function, but it isn't syntactically wrong.

Fawn Locke

That's true

Adám

E.g. =⍣0⍳4 "uses" = monadically.

@FawnLocke "Replicate • Reduce" isn't right. There's Replicate is dyadic with no monadic functionality. Reduce needs to go to the operator table as the monadic counterpart to N-wise reduce.

Fawn Locke

Ah, my bad.

Adám

(Or "Windowed reduce" if you prefer.)

Fawn Locke

6:11 PM

Let me know if you spot any further mistakes. I'll continue this tomorrow. Thanks for your time and feedback, as always.

Adám

6:28 PM

@MaciejGoszczycki Welcome to the APL Orchard!

Maciej Goszczycki

Yes, I've messed with array languages before but trying to learn APL as part of this year's Advent of Code. For Dyalog, I've been trying to wrap my head around SALT (before I found out it's supposed to be replaced with LINK) and I don't quite understand something. If I have a SALTed namespace, is there now way to add new functions/variables to it? I assign them, but ]saveing them doesn't add them to the file.

Not that it really matters, since I think I might just use ]defs and copy and paste my stuff into a single file when I'm done (at least for Advent of Code)

Adám

@MaciejGoszczycki Once SALT has created a source for your namespace, you'll want to use )ed mynamespace to edit that directly. However, ]scriptUpdate can update your source if you've done further assignments.

That said, you should really look into using Link.

@FawnLocke You'll probably want to put monadic and dyadic operators into separate tables.

Fawn Locke

Definitely

Maciej Goszczycki

@Adám Ah!, Thanks, I actually found ]scriptUpdate but I assumed there must exist some salt-approved way to do it instead. Just out of curiosity, is there a way to ed a freshly created namespace - on new namespaces ed only shows the namespace path.

I'll definitely look into Link later, I just didn't know about it until recently and I was really curious if I was missing some trick with SALT

Adám

6:47 PM

@MaciejGoszczycki You can initiate and edit a new namespace with )ed ⍟newns or create a scripted namespace without editing it with ⎕FIX':Namespace newns' ':EndNamespace'

Maciej Goszczycki

Oh wow, didn't think about using one of the ed options.

How do people here wok on small scripts (stuff you could feed into mapl), just iterate and ]defs?

Fawn Locke

I treat the Dyalog repl like an OS and run my scripts from it, usually with 2⎕FIX'file://*.apl'

#!/bin/bash
dyalog -script <(echo ∇M;tail -n+3 "$0";echo -e '∇\nM\n⎕off');exit $?
⎕←⍬⋄⎕io⎕pp⎕pw←0 34 32767⋄{}⎕se.UCMD'←box on -s=max -f=on'⊣enableSALT⊣⎕cy'salt'

Might be useful to you, haven't tested it recently

Adám

7:07 PM

Can't wait for 18.2…

2

Maciej Goszczycki

Ah, that's neat it makes the script FIXable.
I did read in the Link docs the 18.2 introduces a "scripting engine", that should make this stuff a lot easier, I think I only found out about `-script` through this chat.

Thanks a million!

xpqz

@MaciejGoszczycki you can see a bit how it will work in 18.2 in my book's workflow chapter here: xpqz.github.io/learnapl/workflow.html

Also covers ]link

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