@Adám Well, dependency on a third-party tool that monitors and takes over all keyboard input isn't exactly ideal. I know security conservatives that would get worked up over such decisions.

@B.Wilson Well, espanso is gpl, so we could just roll our own

@Adám Same potential concern to newcomers, though.

Granted, if it's available as an option in addition to the current methods, then maybe it's a good compromise?

@B.Wilson How is that any different from the current IME et al?

@Adám Well, I assume that RIDE currently isn't actively attempting to capture all keypresses. X only reports input event for mapped windows, meaning that RIDE only gets events for windows that happen to be on the same desktop/workspace.

IMHO, though, it's mostly a perception issue. Any X application can obviously sniff all input if it wants but we are confident that most well-known software are good citizens.

Correct, but until recently, we used xkb to capture all, including locking people out of their no-GUI OSs because we hijacked the Win key.

And we are looking for a better solution for global enabling of APL input. Inputting APL into the IDE and Ride only isn't hard.

What are you doing for Wayland?

Fail.

Hahaha. Fair enough.

On Windows too, we by default install a global IME, hijacking pretty much all "standard" keyboard combos, like Ctrl+S to save, Ctrl+A to select all, Ctrl+F to Find, etc.

I just glanced at espanso's docs, and it appears to have some degree of Wayland support ○.∘

They do admit it's janky, though.

Interesting. Though the Windows crowd tends to be less skittish of proprietary software in general.

What do you mean by "Though" here?

Hey @JohannesHoff and @user706474 interested in APL?

Saying "our product is behind a TOS agreement and also we go out of our way to capture all your device input" just raises the potential adoption barrier for some.

Integrated seamless input lowers it.

I don't know where things sit on balance.

Right, Dyalog is proprietary. That's not going to change for now. If we ask "do you want APL keyboarding globally" and the user confirms, then I don't think capturing keystrokes to do that is a problem. In contrast, despite being proprietary, and even as opposed to plenty of FOSS, Dyalog never ever tracks or records what you do, and never phones home, not even to verify your serial number or anything else like that. The proprietary product isn't even watermarked in any way.

That's actually a nice value declaration that would vibe well with the HN crowd. It might be worth putting in the TOS agreement dyalog.

@Adám Yes, I'm trying out APL for this year's Advent of Code :)

@JohannesHoff (post APL code in separate messages and press Ctrl+k before posting; SE chat will visually merge your messages and format the code properly)

      'foo' 'bar' 'foo' 'baz'⍳⊂'foo'
1

However, this gives 5 rather than 0 for "not found".

@JohannesHoff Dyadic ⍳ is literally "first index of"

@JohannesHoff Feel free to add yourself to APL Wiki — and check out the video on parsing content.

@Adám Ah, perfect! Thanks

@Adám This is also great. I'll add myself, and look forward to comparing my (poor) solutions to the ones already there

@JohannesHoff Btw, are you aware of APLcart?