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12:43 PM
CMP: Should I add GUI objects to APLcart?
 
12:57 PM
I don't see why not. If the objective of APLcart is to be as comprehensive as possible, I believe it'd be pertinent to have them there
 
 
2 hours later…
2:42 PM
@J.Sallé But then GUI properties and methods and events too?
 
2:58 PM
@Adám maybe the most useful idioms for those?
 
There's a ⎕IO←0 gang at Dyalog!? Blasphemy!
 
4:02 PM
@J.Sallé APL# has fixed ⎕IO←0, IIRC.
@J.Sallé Yeah, I've added a handful of those. Feel free to suggest more.
 
4:34 PM
@J.Sallé done
@J.Sallé done
 
Very nice
I think I'll start a project for a recomendation engine in APL
During my vacations, I mean
 
@J.Sallé Like Netflix's suggestions?
 
@Adám Not really. I'm a Magic: the Gathering --addict-- enthusiast, specifically for the Commander format. I'm thinking of creating an engine to simulate a number of possible hands (combinations of 7 cards) based on a JSON decklist and provide some statistics and suggestions to tweak the decks
 
@J.Sallé Ah, I remember you mentioning that.
 
Yeah, I'll try to get it off the paper this semester
 
 
2 hours later…
ngn
6:32 PM
@J.Sallé the ⎕io←0 and ⎕io←1 gangs should stop fighting each other and unite against whose who think ⎕io doesn't matter
 
@ngn ⎕IO←0.5? Then you can just use or . ;-)
 
ngn
@Adám solomonian ⎕io :)
 
Petition to create ⎕quIO which fluctuates between 0 and 1.
 
ngn
to ⎕io←1 people i have 3 things to say: ' brothers, no need to figh' and ' ⎕io matters a lo'
 
@ngn Let's make the zeroth day of the zeroth month each year a celebratory⎕IO←0 day! (Then we can celebrate ⎕IO←1 on Jan 1st.)
 
ngn
6:44 PM
lol :)
@Adám months are actually ⎕io←2
 
@ngn Not 3?
In the Jewish calendar new year is the first (and second) day of the seventh month…
 
ngn
september = 7th in latin is the 9th month in our modern calendar, october = 8th in latin is the 10th, etc
 
@ngn Of course, because ^^ — Jewish new year is (generally) in September.
 
ngn
@Adám was the roman calendar based on the jewish??
 
@ngn That may be lost to history. It may be that all agreed that the year begins with the spring. That is certainly Jewish law.
It is actually a question whether Jews are allowed to use common numbers for the months, as it implies January being number 1, when the law is clear that one must count Nissan (≈March) as the first.
 
ngn
6:56 PM
@Adám the roman calendar had months named after roman gods (january=janus, march=mars, ...) and it was in use before judea was a roman province
 
@ngn The month names are quite irrelevant for which month is the first one, no? We don't even know the names of most months in Hebrew.
 
ngn
@Adám see here
we know which was first because of september=7, october=8, etc
 
@ngn Yes, so? Also the intercalary month was between February and March, just like in the Jewish calendar.
 
ngn
@Adám ok, if we count the interc...whatever month, that's ⎕io←2 for some months and ⎕io←3 for others :) but still, month names are relevant for where the calendar came from.
 
@ngn It isn't really a normal ⎕IO value, as the 12th month is called "2" \○/
 
ngn
7:20 PM
months and years are based on natural phenomena - the movement of celestial bodies
the natural start of a year is either a solstice or an equinox
a "week" however... that concept might have come from judea
interesting, weeks in bulgaria start from monday, but encoded in the etymology of some week days is sunday as the first day
 
@ngn Btw, the Bible clearly uses ⎕IO←1 for the days of the week. While even ⎕IO←0 can agree to call the beginning element "the first", they will also assign it "number zero". But the Gen. 1:5 says: There was evening and there was morning, day one.
 
ngn
sunday="no-do day", monday="after no-do day", tuesday="2nd", wednesday="middle" (!), thursday="4th", friday="5th", saturday=a modification of the word "sabbath" (note the wednesday)
 
@ngn Most of the world (all but USA, Canada, Japan, Israel) has switched to ⎕IO←Monday because Christianity, but even in German, Wednesday is "Mittwoch", i.e. Midweek!
 
ngn
@Adám ah, right...
 
ngn
7:36 PM
another interesting fact: when asked "how old are you?" i've always replied with the number of complete years since my birth
 
@ngn What, you don't round?
 
ngn
but when i was a child, older people used to say this like "i'm going through my N-th year" which is off by 1
@Adám contemporary bulgarians always do , older generations used to do with slightly different phrasing
 
@ngn "I'm in my nth year"?
 
ngn
@Adám yeah, something like that
 
Interestingly, Jews tend to put one more candle on birthday cakes than the number of fully lived years.
 
ngn
7:43 PM
interesting
@Adám i've heard there's a jewish custom to name a child after a grandparent, like with us, but they never do that while the grandparent is alive. is it true?
 
@ngn No. It is common to name children after the child's ancestors, but customs vary as to specifically alive ones or specifically dead ones.
 
ngn
sorry if i'm going too far off-topic
 
@ngn Only from "i've heard" is actually off-topic :-)
 
ngn
the 2 languages i'm most familiar with are bulgarian and english, and sometimes they differ in ⎕io: en - "to start from square one", bg - "to start from the zero"
but: en - "first floor", bg - "second floor"
 
@ngn "To reset" in Danish is "at nulstille", lit. set to zero.
@ngn Uh, that's a UK/US thing.
 
ngn
7:55 PM
but: "ground 0" (the exact location where a large explosion happened)
 
@ngn I'd rather have a medal with a big "1" than a big "0" :-)
 
ngn
bg: "kota 0" means a building built up to where ground level is
@Adám bg: "a round 0" mean a complete idiot :)
 
@ngn Relevant:
Zero-based numbering or index origin = 0 is a way of numbering in which the initial element of a sequence is assigned the index 0, rather than the index 1 as is typical in everyday non-mathematical or non-programming circumstances. Under zero-based numbering, the initial element is sometimes termed the zeroth element, rather than the first element; zeroth is a coined ordinal number corresponding to the number zero. In some cases, an object or value that does not (originally) belong to a given sequence, but which could be naturally placed before its initial element, may be termed the zeroth element...
(But the more times I read it, the more entangled in parentheses do I get, so be warned!)
 
ngn
the -th suffix should not be confused with indexing
-th implies that you've completed that number after counting the thing
"at index (or offset) i" implies before
 
@ngn offset is best, it is unambiguous:
⎕←⎕JSON'[1,,4]'
 
8:04 PM
@Adám
DOMAIN ERROR
 
Oh :-(
⎕←{0::⎕DMX.Message ⋄ ⎕JSON'[1,,4]'}⍬
 
@Adám
JSON import: invalid character at offset 4 (⎕IO=1)
 
ngn
@Adám if kei hadn't conceded to allowing io 1 we wouldn't be having this conversation
 
@ngn You mean to allow )ORIGIN 0
 
ngn
@Adám was that the original (no pun intended) syntax?
 
8:12 PM
@ngn Well, originally, you couldn't switch away from 1, but then they introduced that syntax, yes.
 
ngn
@Adám didn't ken want 0 at first?
 
@ngn I don't think so. It was a better mathematical notation, and mathematicians usually use 1.
 
ngn
well, you know from what i'm gonna quote now...
 
@ngn No. What?
 
ngn
i just love this presentation of simon's
 
8:22 PM
@ngn Sure, I'm 100% with that. While I prefer ⎕IO←1, I'd be more than happy to take ⎕IO←0 if that meant no choice.
 
ngn
he says all the things i've whined about. he basically says your software sucks there and there, and k is better there, without offending anyone like i probably would if i were to say it
 
 
2 hours later…
10:30 PM
Can we get APLcart to 2000 entries before Dyalog '19? Please contribute
 
10:42 PM
hmm, not sure i like the contrast change in APLcart - fully black backgrounds never sit right with me
 
@dzaima Thanks for the feedback. My reasoning was that it is fairly easy to lower screen contrast and/or brightness, but someone with weak vision may appreciate the possibility of having high contrast. Maybe the contrast button should be a slider?
 
10:58 PM
@Adám the previous contrast already is quite good (though i'm no expert), and I'd expect anyone with weak enough vision would already have increased contrast as there are many way worse offenders all over the internet. have no idea why this only complains in the section about grayscale even though the colors are already grayscale :|
 
11:19 PM
@dzaima OK, I'll change it back.
 
11:32 PM
@dzaima It is actually like this for the UI parts. Maybe I should go with full contrast, but add a hint of gray to the background of the table and input field?
 
@Adám yeah, the borders are indeed worse, but the contrast change only affected the table - the least offender
 
@dzaima It was most visible there, but it was actually on everything.
 
@Adám what? the site only has a table and the stuff around it, and the stuff around it definitely isn't everything
 
@dzaima It is a global contrast setting via body{filter:invert(.9)}
 
@Adám how the css works doesn't matter, what matters is how the site looks, and most of the sites background definitely isn't #333333
 
11:43 PM
@dzaima True. Maybe I'll just brighten the text on lighter-grey areas.
 

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