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ssb
4:21 AM
A lot of what I've noticed with native interlopers is that they tend to treat it more like yahoo answers or chiebukuro or something where you can just sort of ramble off a few thoughts and post it as an answer even if it doesn't meet our rather rigid criteria for a well-formed answer
then they get downvoted or ignored..
 
4:50 AM
Yeah, that's certainly also a factor.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:41 AM
@snailboat Why did you delete your answer on japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/19614/… ? I hope it wasn't due to my minor quibble...
 
7:33 AM
@Choko Thanks for your fixes, they are always very educational. Was there nothing wrong with 「質問の内容を理解できなかった、もしくは回答が明確でない場合、回答者は無視されるようになる、あるいはdownvoteされていると思います」? It seemed like it was at least poor writing to me, but I couldn't think of a better way to write it.
It is honestly considerably harder to translate my own English into Japanese than just write directly in Japanese, funnily enough.
 
8:19 AM
@DariusJahandarie まあ、わかるし~
文法とかも、間違いっていうほどのもんはないと思うけど~
「質問の内容を理解できなかったり、もしくは回答が明確でない場合、回答者は無視されるようになったり、あるいはdownvoteされていると思います。」でもいいだろう‌​し
「もしくは」と「あるいは」は、おんなじだと思うので、どっちを使ってもいいとおもうし
「『~たり~たり』じゃないと駄目」と思う人なら、
「~たり、もしくは~たりした場合、~~ったり、あるいは~たりしていると思います。」って、「たり」だらけになるかな
「~してしまう」を使って、残念な気持ちを表してもいいよね。
「回答者は無視されてしまったり、あるいはdownvoteされてしまっていると思います。」とかね~
 
@Choko あっ、これはいい感じ
ところで今日は「〜」をよく使ってるね
 
お~?
そおかな~~?
ひひひ
 
いつもより、のんきな…
 
Xeo
@DariusJahandarie My gripe with that is, that I, as a Japanese learner, don't get anything out of that. :(
 
8:35 AM
@DariusJahandarie この質問を読んで・・・
 
@Xeo Oh, but you do! Having native Japanese speakers as part of the community is even useful for people who can't read Japanese, because slowly those speakers improve their English, and start leaving comments or even answers! It's just about making it a more comfortable place for them.
 
「I am the only one who doesn't feel the 英語で話さないといけない極度のプレッシャー?」って思いました
 
英語でそう思った?!
 
いあいあいあwww
 
Anyways, maybe I am wrong about that, and there is some other reason all the Japanese speakers speak in English all the time (like to practice it).
I feel like you're one of the few people who don't hesitate to respond in Japanese as long as there is a slight chance the person you're talking to will understand it.
 
8:42 AM
@DariusJahandarie Oh no no, you're not wrong
When I just started posting here, I felt that pressure, yes
I thought that I was supposed to respond to comments in English
It's just I got lazy...
 
Xeo
@DariusJahandarie I left my thoughts on the meta question
 
I'm getting lazier and lazier...
 
and more and more thick skinned...
 
あれ?
体に有害そう
@Xeo Yay, thanks!
 
8:59 AM
@broccoliforest 関東のタクシーって白いんだぁ
つうか、この緑色が、珍しいと思う。
大阪で、見ないもん。
@broccoliforest な~るほど
@DariusJahandarie 日常会話では、「ペンを3本買いました」ですよね
「ペン3本を買いました」・「3本のペンを買いました」って、会話ではちょっとねえ。。算数の問題みたい
ちょっと文語的なのかも。
 
9:14 AM
朝の4時…やばい
 
www
寝~!
@virmaior I think I know which thread you're talking about
I think your Japanese there is understandable enough
 
吹雪のせいで明日(今日?)は事務所に行く必要はなくてよかった
 
吹雪!おお~
 
前の吹雪の雪はまだ地面に30-40cmぐらい残ってる
先週だったけ
とにかく吹雪が多すぎる
寝る。おやすみ。
 
ごおdにght
We don't have much snow here, so I like snow!
(寒いの嫌いだけど)
 
9:37 AM
それは本州中心思想だ。ここで、1日30センチ日が数えられない。
 
@virmaior Yeah.. it rarely snows here in Kyoto.
 
I actually find Honshu colder in the winter
or so i tell myself
 
へえ~~
そおなんだ
 
暖房の使い方のせい
 
新潟とか、雪が多そう!
 
9:45 AM
ええ、天気予報またニューズあまり見ないで、何が行っていますか。
ちなみに、(日系人の)妻はふたつの点で私より日本語上手。まず、カタカナことば。先週の木曜日75人の前、リポートの書き間違うのを発表しました。また、「うん」と「う‌​んん」の区別。
 
北海道は、数日前、すごい雪でしたね?
うんvsううん?へ~
おじさまvsおじいさまvsおうじさま、
みたいな
speaking of カタカナ言葉・・・
How do you transcribe your username in katakana?
virmaiorさんのアバターの横にあると、自分のアバターがいっそうあほに見える。ww
 
10:00 AM
はあはあ
実名だって簡単。virmaiorだって、ヴィルメーオル
 
(=Virmaior's profile pic makes mine look even stupider?)
 
確かに
 
ひひひ
 
はじめはアバターなかった。
いつこれに変えたのがわからない。
妻はフェスブクの写真使っているで、私もそこに入っている。
妻もメンバーだ。
 
その写真(つうか、絵)は、だれか、哲学者の肖像画
 
10:05 AM
キェルケゴール
 
@virmaior えっ、ここの?
JLに?
 
うん
 
うわ~探そう~いわないで~~
 
また5枚入力して、家へ帰る。
 
@virmaior あ、もしかして!わかったようなきがする!!
 
10:08 AM
一回ちょこと同じ質問答えた。
(妻が)
 
これ!!
6
A: My name is Midori, but I have never known the Kanji

seijitsuSince "youthful immortal" is not a common reading for the name "Midori," if you have the opportunity to ask your parents their intended kanji, that would be the easiest route. The main kanji for Midori is 緑 (meaning greenery, or the color green). There are a few obsolete kanji variations on it ...

cos she's in Sapporo-shi!
 
うん。
ああそのようにばれた。
 
I have a good memory! yay!
 
well that's definitely true
また、二枚
Chokoさんは仕事していますか。
 
 
2 hours later…
12:26 PM
@l'électeur ちょっとお
 
 
2 hours later…
Anonymous
2:40 PM
@DariusJahandarie I deleted it a little while back
 
Anonymous
My reasoning was this:
 
Anonymous
1. My answer didn't seem to be really considered satisfactory by the community (few upvotes, the comment, no accept)
 
Anonymous
2. If I left my answer there, it probably wouldn't get another answer
 
Anonymous
If I deleted it, I knew Community would bump the question and it would show up as unanswered
 
Anonymous
So someone could write a better answer
 
Anonymous
2:42 PM
I didn't want my answer there to keep the question from being satisfactorily answered
 
Anonymous
I can un-delete it later, though
 
@Choko 能ある鷹は爪を隠す!かっこいい!つきあってください!!ww
@virmaior アバターよりもイケメン
@virmaior isn't it Latin or something?
5
Q: Translating the FAQ into Chinese

KrazerAlthough this community is primarily composed of people who can speak both English and Chinese, I'd like to make it a bit user friendly to primarily Chinese speaking vistors, so they are not intimidated, driven away from not being able to speak English well, or even feel obligated to speak Englis...

it looks like Chinese Language SE has the same kind of discussion here
9
Q: Asking questions completely in Chinese

xiaohouzi79Prior to site launch I asked this question during the sites definition: Will the Chinese Language site allow for questions to be asked completely in Chinese? Which over time received 20 upvotes. Not that this make it a consensus. How would everyone feel about someone asking a question here co...

 
3:10 PM
and occasionally I run into conversations (comments) like "Don't use Chinese, use English here", "No, you don't need", so there could be some kind of "English pressure" in that site too
and I feel that JP and CN sites have more "language learner" color, at least, than the FR
 
Anonymous
Yeah. On the meta post here, Xeo talked about splitting Japanese.SE up into a "learners" and "non-learners" site.
 
Anonymous
That made sense with English.SE
 
Anonymous
Because with English.SE, there were lots of native speakers asking and answering questions
 
Anonymous
And the learners' needs weren't being met by English.SE
 
Anonymous
So the learners got a separate site, ELL.SE
 
Anonymous
3:17 PM
But with Japanese.SE, almost every question is asked by a non-native speaker
 
Anonymous
Native speakers who participate essentially only answer questions
 
Anonymous
So I don't think Xeo's split is possible
 
Anonymous
On French.SE, they tried to accommodate both languages from the beginning
 
Anonymous
But still, most of the questions are from learners
 
maybe, what we need is JP -> EN translation?
 
Anonymous
3:22 PM
One time Choko posted an answer in Japanese, and Flaw translated it, and everyone seemed happy :-)
 
that is, answerers can feel free to post in JP
:)
 
Anonymous
But that hasn't happened very often
 
actually the site mechanism... it doesn't have translator badge or something :D
 
Anonymous
Oh, true
 
what happens if OP's English is low quality in ELL?
 
Anonymous
3:26 PM
I very often edit questions and answers on ELL to improve their English
 
Anonymous
But if I can't understand, then I can't edit, of course―so I leave a comment asking what they mean
 
Anonymous
It's more or less expected that not everyone's English will be perfect on ELL, and that's okay
 
Anonymous
But ideally we want questions and answers to be useful to other people in the future
 
Anonymous
Who find them with a Google search or the like
 
Anonymous
3:29 PM
One problem that OPs have is figuring out how to vote, or what answer to accept
 
true
2
Q: Difference between 本当に and 全然 in a negative sentence

en_I want to translate something like the following: I watched a movie with together with my friends. Not at all did I watch it alone. Where the "not at all" is supposed to express obvious sarcasm regarding the alone-ness. EDIT: Obvious sarcasm because "I" doesn't really have friends, exce...

I remembered this question
who doesn't seem to be very fluent(?) in English
maybe not fluent is mine :D
 
Anonymous
Well, it's difficult to understand what they're trying to express with their English examples
 
Anonymous
It's got to be tough studying a third language in a second language
 
anyway, it doesn't seem good that the posters must know English other than Japanese itself
 
Anonymous
Asking questions entirely in Japanese is okay here (but people don't do it very often)
 
3:34 PM
perhaps some people speak mother tongue > Japanese > English
yeah, but I don't see much Japanese in this site (as well as in CN), so perhaps people don't know about it
 
Anonymous
That's a good point
 
especially the passers by...
is it technically possible to insert more Japanese into the site interface?
I wonder
 
Anonymous
There's the user-made script to localize Japanese.SE
 
Anonymous
I haven't used it
 
Anonymous
There's nothing official at the moment
 
Anonymous
3:46 PM
But they did localize Japanese Stack Overflow, so maybe it'd be possible to request a language option once they get the translation problems sorted out
 
it seems they have kind of official backup: they can alter the backend
I don't know what degree of customization we could use...
 
Anonymous
4:11 PM
0
Q: Japanese language interface option for Japanese.SE

snailboatIn the past, we've discussed the possibility of a localized interface for Japanese.SE: Is JLU an English-centric site? & Is it possible to create a localized JLU for Japanese? Creating as much Japanese interface as possible to be more inclusive of native Japanese speakers Localization: The stat...

 
Anonymous
I posted a feature request!
 
thank you! +1
I wish we wouldn't end up translating all interface using javascript...
 
5:23 PM
Would you guys understand this: ここで寒くなって雨が降っている。 as: Here it has become cold and it's raining.
?
 
doesn't sound natural, what do you mean by "here"?
 
here, in Spain
she's in Japan
I know it's posible to use the te form to link verbs the same way we use AND in English
but I don't know if it's posible to link different conjugations, such as past and progressive
What I'd like to say is: it's become cold and it's raining
 
oh, I see
if you really want to chain the two parts
ここは寒くなってきて雨も降っている
 
what does the きて after なって do?
 
well, "getting more and more"-ish nuance
often we can't translate some kind of perfect tense without it
日本語が上手になってきた
 
5:39 PM
I won't worry too much about it then, my level of Japanese is still very basic
 
"my Japanese has improved"
 
I learnt the way to say it is 日本語が上手になりました
My japanese became more skillful = My japanese is more skillful (has improved)
 
yeah, it's correct
上手になりました sounds like you "beat a level"
上手になってきた is more like "gradually, step by step"
 
Xeo
6:06 PM
Hm. Today, I came across an ad with "maybe today I say what I think". And I tried translating it for funzies - 「---たぶん--- 今日思い事という。」. How bad of a translation is that?
 
is the strikethrough part of the ad too?
anyway, 今日思い事という already contains too many errors
 
Xeo
@broccoliforest ye
@broccoliforest hehe, I guessed as much
 
btw, how do you mark up the strikethrough here? :D
test テスト
ah, easy
 
Anonymous
It has to be surrounded by whitespace, though, so 「---テスト--- fails
 
Xeo
ye
@snailboat Well, it needs whitespace or punctuation. But 「 apparently doesn't count as the latter
[test
ye, that works
special characters suffice
 
6:20 PM
then I'd say 今日こそ思ったことを言う つもり
thanks
if I understand correctly
 
Anonymous
@Xeo Oh, I didn't realize
 
Anonymous
,test,
 
Anonymous
【---test---】
 
te st
 
Xeo
test
 
Anonymous
6:21 PM
Well, the programmers who put Stack Exchange together have never been known for being Unicode-savvy
 
Xeo
hehe
 
Anonymous
You wouldn't believe how many bugs there were with Japanese support early on, and of course some of them are still around years later
 
Xeo
15
Q: Tags don't want to play with 🍌s

Xeo[tag:🍌] As can readily be seen, tags seem to discriminate against bananas and don't want to play with them. I thought SO was a place of no discrimination against other origins, but it seems the ASCII-Landers are considered first-class citizens, while the Unicodians are seated below them. The sa...

 
Anonymous
We have kanji tags now on Japanese.SE, but people have largely decided not to use them
 
Xeo
6:22 PM
[tag:🍌]
heh
 
Anonymous
Awww.
 
Anonymous
Hey, if we can get my feature request up to +3 it'll appear on the front page :-)
 
I saw on meta that how bolding and furigana were unavailable
 
Anonymous
I tried to tag a question with 🍌 just now, but it failed
 
Anonymous
@broccoliforest There were a bunch of others
 
6:25 PM
@Xeo how did you do this?
 
Anonymous
URLs tended to filter out Japanese
 
Xeo
[tag:stuff] =>
 
Anonymous
And you couldn't ask questions with 100% Japanese, because the "quality filter" counted only ASCII characters
 
Xeo
[meta-tag:stuff] =>
 
Anonymous
6:25 PM
So it would reject your question as "very low quality"
 
Xeo
wow, not much difference there
 
dark ages...
 
Xeo
very different on SO chat
@snailboat hahaha
 
Anonymous
Chat conversations, to this day, filter out non-ASCII characters
 
Anonymous
So if you try to save a chat conversation (essentially, bookmark a section of chat and give it a name and a permanent URL)
 
Anonymous
6:27 PM
And you enter in a Japanese title
 
Anonymous
It'll complain that you haven't entered anything
 
Xeo
welp
 
Anonymous
I have a conversation titled "and" because I had to add an English word to the Japanese to get it to save
 
Xeo
Chat has always been a second-class citizen on SO
 
Anonymous
And it reduced it to "and"
 
Xeo
6:28 PM
Great success
 
[tag:𠮟る]
 
Anonymous
@Xeo By which we mean, the guy who wrote chat left SO and it's just sorta floated around since then
 
oh, it just doesn't support plane >= 1
 
Anonymous
A-ha
 
Anonymous
It did take years for them to (mostly, but not entirely) fix the problems with bold and italic markup
 
6:30 PM
 
Anonymous
Ooh, what's that one?
 
Anonymous
I see a Unicode substitution glyph
 
Anonymous
LATIN EPIGRAPHIC LETTER ARCHAIC M
 
/\/\/ shaped letter
Roman personal name abbrev, I think
for Manius
 
Anonymous
The site search is mostly useless for languages like Japanese or Chinese
 
Anonymous
6:32 PM
I'm not sure they're planning on fixing that
 
Anonymous
They should really just use a Google custom search or something :-)
 
it's become a problem in ja SO now
 
Anonymous
They've known about the problem for years
 
Anonymous
So they shouldn't be surprised by it
 
too sad for words...
 
Xeo
6:36 PM
@snailboat site:japanese.stackexchange.com for your own custom google search :P
same for chat search
 
Anonymous
@Xeo Yeah, I think that's what most people do
 
Anonymous
Thanks for the tip :-)
 
Anonymous
I think if we had more posts in Japanese, and people had trouble understanding, they could always post additional questions asking about the parts they don't understand :-)
 
I hate to think what happens if hindi or arabic language join the SE, with current backend
 
Anonymous
Right now, that seems unlikely
 
6:42 PM
it must be a pandora's box
btw, I daringly put an all-Japanese post (on meta)
1
A: Encouraging participation from native Japanese speakers: translating posts

broccoli forest翻訳論的には、第一言語以外から自分の第一言語に訳すのが一番理想的とされています。なので、英語の投稿を日本語に直すお手伝いをするのは個人的にやぶさかではありません。逆に、英語の母語話者の方は日本語で書かれたものを英語に訳すようにすると、スムーズなのではないかと思います。ただ、今くらいの回答の量を逐一訳せるマンパワーが継続的に確保できるかというと、やはり疑問です。もし本格的に翻訳制度を定着させようとするなら、「翻訳者バッジ」とか、何かしらの形でシステム上のバックアップも必要なのではないかと思います、どこまで可能なのかわかりませんが。 いずれにしても、日本語でも質問できるということを、どこか...

 
 
2 hours later…
8:25 PM
Ah, your Japanese is so good...
I mean, of course, but 憧れます、ということです。
Thanks for your edits on my post BTW.
 

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