Japanese Language - 2013-03-25 (page 1 of 2)

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12:35 AM

すいてる・・

Easter holidayだし。

(たぶん関係ないな～)

寒い。雪むっちゃ積もってる

庭、真っ白。

もっと降れ～

I haven't tweeted a while

Some people say twitter is addictive but

I don't know what to tweet!

発想が貧困で、アカンわ～～

I signed up for twitter back when nobody knew what twitter was and i have made a total of about 5 tweets

most of them from the first day i got it

eventually some guy wanted my twitter name so i sold it (!)

あはは、なんでや～～ｗｗｗ

売れるんだ？えええ

well.. he sent me money and i gave him the account information

うわ～～ほんとにお金くれたんだ

すごっ

yes, a lot of people tweeted at me thinking i was him

12:45 AM

www

so i started pretending to be him but like a lot more stupid

取り替えっこしたんだ

とりかえっこプリーズ

what is that

if i type 取り替えっこ in google IME it suggests とりかえっこプリーズ

とりかえっこ・・・交換？

とりかえっこプリーズ

『とりかえっこプリーズ』は、イマクニ?・レイモンド・ジョンソン・小林幸子とのユニット『スズキサン』によるシングル。1998年2月10日発売。作品概要 * 『ポケットにファンタジー』は、テレビアニメ『ポケットモンスター』3代目エンディングテーマ曲であり、1997年12月16日から1998年7月9日にかけて使用された。歌が始まる前には大人（さち）と子供達（じゅり）の掛け合いがあり、その後もミュージカル調に歌は進行していく。 * 最初にお披露目した回はポケモンショックの発生した回であったため、二度目のお披露目（1998年4月16日）まで4カ月も間が空いた。ちなみにテレビアニメ放送初期、特別編として放送された『ルージュラのクリスマス』では、クリスマスバージョンにアレンジされたものがEDで流れた。ちなみにこの歌は、『劇場版ポケットモンスターミュウツーの逆襲』の特報映像のBGMとしても使用されている。収録曲 # とりかえっこプリーズ（ポケモンカードゲームCMソング） #* 作詞：戸田昭吾、作曲・編曲：たなかひろかず、歌：スズキサン # ポケットにファンタジー（テレビアニメ『ポケットモンスター』3代目エンディングテーマ） #* 作詞：戸田昭吾、作曲：たなかひろかず、編曲：中村暢之 #* 演奏：ポケモンフィルハーモニーオーケストラ、歌：さち&じゅり # ポケモン音頭（テ...

huh.

12:48 AM

ああ、歌ね

（たぶん知らないけど・・）

i learn a lot of random things from suggestions on google ime

I use Twitter because there are many Japanese programmers on there

So it's fun to use Japanese to talk about what I usually do

I usually just look like an idiot making stupid mistakes. It's fun anyways though!

私はtwitterで「おはよう」とか「おやすみ」とか「雪だ！」とか「さむっ！」しか書かないから話が続かないんだな～

「今、日本、何時？」「あ、そう」「いってらっしゃ～い」で、

終わってしまう・・・

あ、そうそう、あのね、日本には「ウォシュレット」があるけど、イギリスにはないです

みんなのおうちには、「ウォシュレット」ありますか？

1:07 AM

ありません。

そおか～

やっぱり、

「あったかい便座」って、気持ち悪いのかな～

しかも、シャワーついててさ

@Chocolate まあ、いろんな人はそういうなツイートだけを書いていますよ、ときどき１００００倍ぐらい。

温水で、オシリを洗う・・

挨拶で一万！ｗｗｗ

根気が要りそうだわ～～～

昔、シンガポールはイギリスの植民地でしたからと思います

まあ、あいさつだけじゃないですが、いろなどうでもいいこと

1:10 AM

シンガポールには、イギリスの文化が、たくさんある？

@djahandarie 独り言。。とか。

アメリカもウォシュレットが持っていないです

今、あまりないと思います

そおなんだ～

日本は、なんで、ウォシュレットがすきなのかな

でも僕は好き、日本に行った時本当に楽しみにした

でも、ここの病院にウォシュレットがあります

1:12 AM

病院・・・へ～～～

病気の人とか、怪我してる人は、オシリを拭きにくいから・・・

(なわけないし)

Anonymous

こんにちは！

ちわ～

Anonymous

「病院」って・・・大丈夫ですか？

ウォシュレットの話しててさ

おしりの話だけ

1:14 AM

ｗｗｗ

僕はウォシュレット持ってないけど初めてこのアパートに来てあの暖かい便座を見た

Anonymous

へへへ

やっぱ気持ち悪い

そおなんだ！ｗｗｗ

Anonymous

@Chocolate I'm no good at Twitter.

Anonymous

1:18 AM

There's too many messages... I can't keep up.

たくさんフォローしてるんだ？

Anonymous

I'm following 83 people

Anonymous

83 is too many ^^;

でも、村でとか、そういうなファンシーなトイレはないんだとおもう…普通和式だけと思うのですが

Mmm, I think I follow more than that

I don't try to read every message. Just whenever I'm bored I look at them.

It's nice having it on my phone for that reason, that's where I use Twitter 90% of the time.

Anonymous

I mostly click @つながり

1:21 AM

ありゃ、今見たら、私は53人だったよ・・

すくなっ！

You can follow me if you want even more messages! :D

Anonymous

I'll follow anyone as long as they follow me back! Twitter asymmetry makes me sad.

Though my messages are very complicated and uninteresting to the average person.

難しくない～？

あ、complicatedなんだ（やっぱし）

Anonymous

My tweets are mostly uninteresting. I think that most tweets probably are. :-)

Anonymous

1:24 AM

I tweet about Japanese, or about game dev, or about pears being better than apples.

Why are pears better than apples?

Anonymous

By the way, pears are better than apples.

Anonymous

Because they taste better.

Hahaha. Suddenly interest spikes.

Anonymous

That's most of it

1:24 AM

Oh

コメディアンとか、フォローしてます。「ひろし」とか。

Anonymous

A nice ripe, juicy pear has a better consistency than an apple, too.

I thought there was more to it, or it was some trick question

Anonymous

No, I just like pears.

twitter.com/djahandarie　＜僕の

Anonymous

1:25 AM

I also like saying 梨〜

私もりんごより梨のほうがいい。

You'll have to suffer through my bad Japanese if you follow me th

Anonymous

@Chocolate I don't know if I've followed anyone famous...

Anonymous

A lot of my friends follow Neil Gaiman.

Anonymous

@Chocolate :-D

1:26 AM

どれどれ・・

Anonymous

@djahandarie I followed you!

Anonymous

I keep starting to say something in Japanese, then realizing my Japanese is wrong.

Anonymous

So then I say it in English

Man this highlight sound scares the hell out of me.

Anonymous

You can turn it off.

Anonymous

1:29 AM

Click the little speaker icon in the upper-right, to the left of "all rooms"

Yeah, I just found it.

Anonymous

You don't actually have to follow me back. I was joking about the symmetry rule

Anonymous

My twitter is already asymmetric.

Anonymous

I'm at 87 followers

I actually originally started my Twitter just to practice Japanese. It eventually turned into a mix though

I used to be on IRC a lot in the past, but not as much now, so Twitter helps me keep in touch with some people.

Anonymous

1:33 AM

I should tweet in Japanese. 日本語でツイートするべきです

私のツイート今読んだら「めりくり」と「あけおめ」ばっかりで終わってる・・もう削除しようかな

（掃除したらフォローします）

@snailplane ぎくっ耳が痛い

Anonymous

Oh no

ｗｗｗ

Anonymous

Hehe, I'm so bad at Japanese.

耳が痛い、は

どういう意味かな・・ええと

わからへんｗ

Anonymous

1:37 AM

Hehehe

Because you said "日本語でツイートすべき",

it applies to me too,

Anonymous

I was trying to talk to myself

Anonymous

Oops :-)

I know I have to tweet in English but I don't, so

Anonymous

Ohh

1:39 AM

よく、「あ、耳が痛いわ～」とか

言います。

Anonymous

I get nervous talking in Japanese, because I know my Japanese sounds wrong.

私もです～

自分がやるべきことが聞きたくないという意味なのかな…

「あ、自分が、ちゃんとしてないなあ」って思って、

「あ、ごめんなさい」って感じ。

なるほど…

1:45 AM

お風呂に入って、寝ます～

おやすみなさい～

Gute Nacht

おやすみなさい

Anonymous

おやすみなさい＾＾

おやすみなさい

Unrelatedly,

What is the difference between "did you go" and "have you been" ?

Anonymous

"Have you been" works without context, and refers back to the entire previous experience of the listener. "Did you go" has an implied reference to a recent event

Anonymous

So I could ask you "Have you ever been to Disneyworld?" <-- no context, refers to your entire life

Anonymous

1:59 AM

"Did you go to Disneyworld?" I'm probably asking if you went recently, and it would make more sense to ask this if I had some reason to believe you recently had

Anonymous

"Did you go to the store?" This is fine, it's asking about an implied recent event. Not have you ever been, but did you go recently

Anonymous

"Have you been to the store?" Again, refers to the entire lifetime of experience

Anonymous

(But this last can be used in the same way as "Did you go to the store?")

Anonymous

See, this is why I like writing answers on SE, because I can type all this up, then edit it until it's coherent.

Anonymous

I didn't think of the fact that "Have you been" can also be used like "Did you"

Anonymous

2:01 AM

until I was already halfway done typing it.

Anonymous

Anyway, that is more-or-less how I see the difference.

it's the same as the difference between 行った and 行ったことがある！

My friend asserts that "have you been" sounds politer than "did you go"

Anonymous

Hey, way to bring it back on-topic, ssb. That's probably a better answer than mine

Anonymous

Well, it doesn't sound more polite to me, but I suppose other people may disagree

Anonymous

2:06 AM

Maybe the difference in politeness (if any) would be more obvious with a more complete example. I'm thinking "Did you go to the store?" "Have you been to the store?"

Anonymous

The latter is slightly less direct, which I suppose could make it slightly more polite...?

@ssb I think that makes sense. "have" would be ことがある

if you use "have you been" in the sense of "did you go" the only thing that comes to mind is some sort of posh british aristocrat or other similarly "refined" ways of speaking

for me, anyway

@snailplane similar to 行きました and 行かれました for politeness because it's less direct?

or a sweet old grandma kind of image maybe

"oh have you been to the store then, deary?"

Anonymous

2:09 AM

I think there's too much overlap to claim there's a real distinction

Anonymous

The more I think about it in my head, the more I come to that conclusion

Anonymous

(Yes, "think about it in my head". I am a master of prose)

Anonymous

(That was sarcasm, in case I failed to convey even that. :-)

(what was wrong with "think about it in my head" ?)

Anonymous

It's redundant.

Anonymous

2:10 AM

It's fine, though. I'm just picking on myself.

@snailplane (Also, the parentheses for this sentence doesn't add up)

Anonymous

Yes, they do. I consider a smiley mouth to end a parenthetical statement. That might be wrong or confusing, but it's the way I habitually use them.

I don't know how to end with a smiley within parentheses

Anonymous

It's because I hate typing :-) )

It looks wrong either way

Anonymous

2:11 AM

It looks like the smiley has double chins.

Anonymous

It's even worse if you omit the space

I wonder if there is an official style guide with a ruling on ending parenthetical phrases with a smiley

Anonymous

Although on IRC in the 90s, when we first had contact with Latvian IRCers in Riga, we discovered they smiled like this: :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Anonymous

They used more parentheses the happier they were.

Anonymous

And I think that's pretty awesome, but there was one girl on #riga who typed ))))))))))) with no eyes

Anonymous

2:12 AM

And that was kind of creepy.

Anonymous

We pointed it out to her one time

Anonymous

She responded with :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::)

Anonymous

So some Latvians have the superpower of saving up all their smiley eyes to use at once.

Anonymous

That is the lesson we learned that day. The End

Anonymous

(That story always pops into my head if I end a parenthetical with a smiley :-))

2:15 AM

I see infinite recursion

do any of you work as programmers in japan by chance

Anonymous

I do not. I used to work with Japanese programmers, but not lately

Anonymous

2:42 AM

@Flaw My friends think "did you go" does have a harder edge to it.

Anonymous

One notes: "It depends on the tone of voice"

Anonymous

I guess that's true. I'm playing through a couple conversations in my mind

Anonymous

The two are generally interchangeable (when used with that meaning), but if you're accusing someone of shirking their store-going duties, then "did you go to the store" fits better

2:58 AM

"Did you eat?" "Have you eaten?" It seems like the "have + (subject) + (past participle)?" version always is a little softer.

(Of course the second version can be read in both the "have you ever eaten before?" sense and the "have you eaten yet today?" sense. The latter reading being the relevant one.)

Anonymous

Yeah, my friends agree with you. My guess is that it's because it's less direct

Though it seems the second version does not work so well with verbs that someone may not have ever done before. Even if I'm a dancer, someone asked me "have you danced?" without any extra words in there would seem a tiny bit weird (though totally understandable).

"Have you danced?" definitely suggests the "experience" reading to me, no matter what the context is

Once you say "Have you danced yet?" then it's fine of course.

ふしぎですね…

but what if you're like

in a dance contest, right

and there are people dancing in succession all day and you see your friend and you're like "have you danced?"

Yes, even then, for me, it'd be weird. It'd be totally understandable, it'd just sound a tiny bit weird.

Anonymous

Hmm. It sounds okay in my imagination

Anonymous

3:07 AM

It's one of those things where you have to imagine the proper context to decide if it's appropriate

Anonymous

In the scenarios I can imagine it sounding okay, I imagine other phrases that I'd say instead, like: "Did you go up yet?"

it seems like in most situations when you say "have you~" then there's an expectation that the person will do the thing in question if they haven't already

like it's implicitly saying it with yet/already

@snailplane Once you add "yet" you eliminate the experience reading.

Anonymous

@ssb That's a good point, too

"did you go to the store" sounds neutral to me but "have you been to the store?" sounds like the person was expected to go to the store at some point

3:11 AM

I don't agree, "did you go to the store?" also indicates an expectation for me.

One would never even ask that question unless they had the expectation, really.

i can think of situations in which it could be used without expectation

Anonymous

On second thought, I think I agree with djahandarie.

Anonymous

I think my brain is burning out on hypotheticals.

Anonymous

English is hard.

it's like when you say "by chance"

3:15 AM

@ssb Perhaps if speaker knew that the addressee had gone somewhere, but was guessing where, then "Have you been to the store?" wouldn't be allowed, only "Did you go to the store?"

did you go to the store by chance? there's a big sale on anchovies!

or... something, maybe

Anonymous

In my idiolect, that's by any chance

Yeah, same here.

ahh for me it can be either way

To me that question still reads with the expectation that there's a possibility that the addressee went to the store, and "have you been to the store by any chance" would be just as good.

The guessing situation I mentioned seems to be the only one I can think of where only one is usable, I think.

3:20 AM

snailplane has added snailplane to the list of this room's owners.

Like, consider these series of questions:
"Have you been to the store? Have you been to the museum? Have you been to the post office?"
vs
"Did you go to the store? Did you go to the museum? Did you go to the post office?"

The first series of questions is forced to be read as experience, it's no longer possible as just a softer past tense.

(You may want to imagine "yes"/"no" replies in the middle of the questions to make it sound a little less weird.)

Anonymous

I'm not sure it isn't possible.

Anonymous

"Yeah, I can't find a hammer anywhere." "Have you been to Hammer Outlet?" "Yeah." "Have you been to Hammertown?" "Yep." "Well, how about Hammer Time?"

Anonymous

Also, I have commandeered the owner ship.

It seems necessary to drop the beginning of the sentence, though.

Hmm.

Anonymous

3:23 AM

Maybe. In my imagination, it still works.

Anonymous

I edited it.

Anonymous

I'm not sure it's totally natural anymore.

It's reading as the experience reading to me.

Anonymous

Maybe you're right

Anonymous

3:37 AM

I like this question: japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/11528/…

Anonymous

I understood the difference from the prefix お

Anonymous

But not what role に was playing

Anonymous

(It was always just a set phrase in my head.)

Anonymous

I wish I were better at resolving ellipsis in Japanese.

3:54 AM

I think I'm generally okay with that.

My biggest problem is that my vocabulary is very small.

And for the few situations where I have a few words to select from, I never know which one is better for that context.

My understanding that it's even worse in English, so I have no idea how people end up becoming fluent.

Anonymous

I have pretty decent vocabulary and morphemic awareness (which comes from studying kanji)

Anonymous

I'm much better at understanding Japanese than I am at producing it

Anonymous

Which is not to say I'm terribly good at understanding it

Anonymous

But hey, I've gotten a lot better in the last year, so I'm not too worried.

Anonymous

Most of what I do is reading. I'm trying to focus more on listening practice

Anonymous

3:58 AM

I did a lot of studying around ten-fifteen years ago

Anonymous

Starting when I was in high school

Anonymous

I didn't put a whole lot of time into Japanese over the last decade, and I forgot some things

Anonymous

The last few years I've been making an effort to pick it back up.

Anonymous

I think vocabulary, much like kanji, is just something you continue to pick up, so the more time you put into it, the more you know

Anonymous

(And, assuming you use it enough to come across the vocabulary again, or assuming you use a system like Anki, then you can retain it, as well)

4:00 AM

Honestly, I've tried Anki like 5 times now.

Every time I end up giving up.

Anonymous

I've been studying Japanese for fifteen years, so kanji is easy--it's hard not to learn 2000 kanji in that period of time

Anonymous

Do you overdo it?

Anonymous

You don't want to burn out.

Anonymous

This is a problem for me since I'm super-obsessive about everything.

Actually, one time I got it going pretty good, but then my power went out for a week and it totally broke the habit.

Anonymous

4:01 AM

Ahh

Anonymous

That sucks.

No, I'm just really, really bad at establishing habits.

Anonymous

I've never been without power for an entire week

Even shaving every night was hard as hell for me to establish.

Anonymous

Well, there's no rule that you have to use something like Anki, anyway.

Anonymous

4:02 AM

(As I'm sure you're aware!)

Anonymous

I'm not trying to evangelize, either. I do like it :-)

I think it's the most rewarding method.

Anonymous

By rewarding, do you mean efficient?

Yeah.

One day I will crack my brain and then become an efficiency master.

Anonymous

Yeah, perhaps.

Anonymous

4:03 AM

It's not the same as actually using the language, though.

Anonymous

And there are other factors

Anonymous

Your brain is really good at contextual learning

Anonymous

Learning the same thing in different situations makes the memory stronger--learning everything in one white box, I think, is slightly less good

Anonymous

(But then, I think Anki is most useful for retention, not learning.)

Anonymous

Honestly, the most useful thing for learning Japanese for me so far... was probably reading a book.

Anonymous

4:07 AM

But I need to spend more time working on my huge, glaring weak points, which is less fun :/

I don't even read books in English, I don't think that'd necessarily be the best path for me.

Anonymous

Wow

Anonymous

I usually try for one book a week

Anonymous

Works out to 50/year as a goal (never quite 52)

Well, I do read non-technical books sometimes.

Anonymous

4:07 AM

It is a bit disheartening, though

I mean technical*, not non-technical.

Trying some physics ones right now, it's going okay.

Anonymous

When the new Dresden Files came out, I read that in one day in one sitting, and I'd been working on the Japanese book I'd been reading for a while...

Actually I should be reading them right now according to schedule, so maybe it's not going so okay.

Anonymous

Ah

Anonymous

A trend among learners of Japanese is using time-management methods like timeboxing

Anonymous

4:09 AM

I don't know how people do things like that.

Anonymous

I just do stuff, then the day is over and I did some stuff.

Anonymous

It usually works out for the best

It definitely does not work out the best for me. My top interests cycle rapidly.

Hmm. Well.

My top interest stays in one thing until I master or near-master it. Then it changes drastically.

Anonymous

My hindbrain is always working on several things, and these bubble to the surface

I do learn a ton of stuff if I just run free, but that strategy totally ignores any time constraints.

Anonymous

4:12 AM

I do have trouble making myself do things my hindbrain isn't constantly reminding me of

Anonymous

So I try to trick myself into making these things requirements

Anonymous

So I can't just ignore them.

Anonymous

4:27 AM

For stuff I need to work on, just working on it all the time makes my brain want to work on it more. You know, when you're working on something a lot, and you start seeing it everywhere and dreaming it...

Anonymous

For things that are more one-offs, like making myself wash the dishes, I use tricks: I keep only one of each dish and piece of silverware, so I can never let anything pile up. That's what I meant by tricking myself into making them requirements

Anonymous

If I can't forget to do something I need to, I won't

4:54 AM

That's certainly one way of doing it.

Anonymous

Yeah, but it's not really applicable to every situation, unfortunately

5:35 AM

My tweets all have mixed teineigo in them. I can never decide how I want to tweet.

Ah well, bed time for me, night.

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Mar '1325

Japanese Language

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