Moderation

3:17 AM

@Mr.Alien, @KeshavSrinivasan. Hello Mods. Good to see you!

> @iammilind mind if I ask you, whats up with the hatred lately? cc @sv.

So it started with allegation of "hatred" :-). We neither know @Mr.Alien's name nor we know how does @KeshavSrinivasan look? How can we hate you guys even if we want!

This is just criticising the policies around moderation. When you have so many number (400+) of posts with low quality with a readymade list, why are you behind the posts which are proper with scriptures and contend? Actually this can be called "hatred". But still we want to act in parliamentary way, hence some of us pained user use the term "targeting users".

IMO @sv. doesn't have any deleted post. But some of the targeted users are Rickross, moonstar2001 & myself. There might be others too.

I personally have 5 posts deleted. 2 of them are reported in meta.

Mr_Green

Guys that is the problem. You guys are presenting the problem but highlighting other things which is like you are trying to create sides in community. Please only highlight the problem, as a community we will decide how to solve it. I got a sense you guys are high rep users, you aren't just trying to mischief but trying to present the problem you are facing. Let's stick to that.

Present the problem without your suggesting solution which is kind of getting more highlighted.

iammilind

@Mr_Green. No The problem is presented properly here. May be the way it's communicated, has made you feel otherwise. The creation of sides are inevitable.

Mr_Green

Yeah the way it is communicated..

iammilind

3:37 AM

Some issue at my mobile

sv.

@iammilind LOL, I try to be very careful .. :)

@iammilind I'll usually go hunt for scriptures to back up my pre-conceived notions to stay safe :P

Anyways, I do agree that we have got some very rigorous rules .. compared to other SE sites. The main SO site itself doesn't care if you provide link to "software documentation" to support your answer. People want reasonable sensible answers like that of moonstar2001's Sai Baba answer.

Deleting such an answer is a bad example to set, it'll scare people away who genuinely want to answer using knowledge they acquired from guru's or elders.

iammilind

Yes also @Mr_Green, in my deleted answer few people feel it's wrongly deleted. Mods are defending it's rightly deleted.

Only @Pandya among the other users feel rightly deleted. However I have noticed in that answer that the reasons are generated as & when I clarify with comments. Moreover @Pandya is asking Mod's (read permission) blessings while posting that answer. That is not a substantial neutrality for me. Anyways as you see this is debatable. It can't be deleted so easily. However the posts listed in the DB query can be deleted straight away. But the deleted mod is not interested in that.

sv.

5

A: What should we do about opinion based answers?

I agree with @Mr.Alien that We cannot delete the answers unless they are surely wrong or makes no sense. Also, from @BeHappy's answer to Guidelines for new users answering questions which received 17 upvotes as of today: 3. If no such text references are present, then users can provide ans...

Now obviously moderators shouldn't use their powers wrongly, so an answer should be deleted if it is :-

Totally wrong, off-topic (question is something else and answer is something else),
Comment like answer (if useful, convert that into a comment)
Thank you answer
Rude/Offensive
Providing ONLY scientific reasons
Cross religion answer, explaining other religions philosophy (depends on the question though)

sv.

I don't see where moonstar2001's Sai Baba answer fits in any of the above rules to warrant deletion. So we have one mod writing something, another mod doing something else, no one knows what and where the rules are defined., which rules are being followed etc. Simply put there is no "rule book" to follow for any new moderator coming in. It is a mess!

iammilind

3:54 AM

2

A: Is the moderator justified in deleting this answer?

Moderators must not delete answers period. They may place a comment that an answer is incorrect/inappropriate/in contradiction to the site's rules etc.. Deletion is an extreme measure and must be employed only in cases of abuse. The answer referenced in this Q does not merit deletion at all!

sv.

@iammilind Your latest answer that was deleted might fall into "Totally wrong, off-topic (question is something else and answer is something else)" (IMO)

iammilind

@sv., may be but it's disputable. Whatever Qns were asked, were answered in single line.

Mr_Green

Am I right with my above comment?

iammilind

How will you answer: "Do you like your father or mother?" You can't be objective by listing their advantages and disadvantages.

sv.

@Mr_Green This one?

Mr_Green

3:57 AM

Yeah :)

sv.

@Mr_Green "Please only highlight the problem" -- yes, that is what is happening. If mods show no interest and keep ignoring complaints, users will eventually set up side discussions like this. And gang up on the mod.

Example see this comment by Rickross :)

@sv.@Tezz and @The Destroyer..I have flagged the answer asking for removal of the interpolated portions..i think u all shd also do the same.. — Rickross 20 hours ago

To that I replied:

@Rickross I'm not sure about flagging an answer with misleading tr.'s. A user is free to choose any tr. he likes. If you don't like a question or answer using voting privileges instead. JMO. — sv. 20 hours ago

iammilind

I would wait for Mods to respond in above said matters. Then will discuss further. @Pandya though I don't agree with your answer on my last meta post, Thanks for inviting in this room & creating platform with mods.

sv.

@Mr_Green We don't want users downvoting or not-upvoting good answers by mods because they don't like the mod's rude behavior etc.

@iammilind Agree. Logging out now. This is simply beating around the bush.

iammilind

@sv. Meanwhile you can try to think on this: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/34168761#34168761

Mr_Green

Yeah I think first of all we don't need a separate chatroom for discussing things. We are making a feel like something is going out of the hand. Just my opinion.

sv.

4:05 AM

@iammilind Show me a question that's similar to "Do you like your father or mother?" .. then we can discuss. As such "Do you like your father or mother?" is not allowed on our site.

6

Q: Consider fixing questions that will lead to opinion-based or low-quality answers

Recently, I found that the nature of some questions leads to answers: that are opinion-based or that deviate too much from OP's title or main question or that are of very low quality So, I'm encouraging experienced users to improve or fix such questions. These problematic questions may conta...

Personally, before I try to answer an opinion-based question, I try to fix the Qn, ask user for clarification, else the question will be edited and my answer doesn't make sense anymore.

@iammilind I posted an answer to this question, which doesn't make sense anymore, the question has been edited since I answered.

3

Q: How can a man completely get relieved of curses and sins?

How can a man completely get relieved of curses and sins he committed during his earthly life? Please quote from Hindu scriptures instead of vague answers.

scripture sin prayaschitta

@iammilind After that experience, I don't try to answer questions that I don't properly understand. Else, it's just going to be a huge waste of my time. Then trying to undelete my answer (if a mod sees it no longer makes sense etc.) is another headache. So just my advice to you from what I learned :)

iammilind

4:41 AM

@sv. "Father mother" was just an example. You can try giving an answer even without scriptures. I percieve your Qn like that. While answering your Qn, I had edited the title to make it less opinion based but that was reverted to delete my answer. You may want to think how other perceive your Qn, even if you think otherwise.

In any case, when there is a doubt in a post then it is ought to get discussed in chat or comment. That's the reason I focussed on larger issue rather than just on that 1 answer. Hope that Mods learn from this chat room for how to deal with things.

Also your "fear" to take extra protection before Q&A is not right. That's not a productive situation for community. Some general care is enough.

Keshav Srinivasan

Hey guys

@iammilind Let me start off by saying that there is no targeting of any kind. When come across a post on the site, either brought to my attention through a flag or which I just happen to spot while browsing, I follow a very simple procedure. If it's extremely short and it doesn't cite sources, I convert it into a comment. If it doesn't cite sources but it's not extremely short, I ask the user to cite sources, and if they still don't do so, I delete the answer.

@iammilind If an answer doesn't answer the question. I delete it first and then give the user the opportunity to edit it so it does answer the question.

@iammilind I don't base my decisions based on who the author of the post is. The only differential treatment, if you want to call it that, that I do is that I give new users a bit more time to cite sources, compared to users who have been on the site longer.

@iammilind As to your answer, I deleted it because it did not answer the specific question asked, which was whether Hindu scripture addresses the question of buying a house vs. renting a house. The phrasing of the question was actually the product of a discussion between me and the user @sv. about how he could pose a question about buying and renting that would not be closed as either off-topic or opinion-based.

@iammilind I suggested that he post a question about what Hindu scripture specifically says about this subject, because that way answers wouldn't degenerate into discussion and arguments over what general scriptural verses may or may not imply about this subject, which is not what this site is for. That's why the question had the form it had, and your answer did not answer that.

sv.

5:04 AM

@KeshavSrinivasan I agree with Keshav there that answer should remain focused on the central part of the question. Not deviate too much from it and discuss economics of house ownership vs. renting. Although now I think about it, I should have removed the part about 'economic' reasons why people rent before anyone answered.

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, thankfully I removed the economic reasons before anyone answered.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Although you should take up on my suggestion instead of exercising delete power right away talk to user first. Especially existing high-rep users.

"discussing in chat-room may help" - another take on this. Why can't the moderator initiate a chat with the high-rep user before deleting an answer? Don't you think it's better than "Shoot first, ask questions later?" — sv. yesterday

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, when it's a quality issue like citing sources or the answer not being in English and the like, I do talk to the user first. But if an answer doesn't answer the question, then I delete the answer first and then give the user the opportunity to edit it.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Also, why show so much urgency deleting answers? I don't think anyone will stop buying a property instead start renting after reading an answer on Hinduism.SE :)

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. And also I don't think anyone will postpone their mortgage decision because the answer they would have seen was deleted, haha

sv.

5:12 AM

@KeshavSrinivasan Fair enough, but then we will have high-rep users complaining on meta about mods. Had you initiated a chat before deleting an answer, things would go in a different way.

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, but it's not like that's an inevitable process, people have free will. If iammilind wanted to talk to me about my deletion decision in chat, I'd be more than willing to do so, as I'm doing now.

Mr_Green

Sorry to interpret. I think it makes sense giving time to a new user because he/she don't know about rules here but it doesn't apply same to a high rep user. my opinion.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Mr_Green Yeah, that's what I generally follow.

Mr_Green

high rep users are supposed to know and follow the site rules.

not saying that iammillind or anyone not following it.. It just a generic statement.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Long long ago, at least 1-2 Yuga's ago, mods were given this query. When high-rep users see you don't have time for fixing those old ones but readily jump on new answers, long ones, without giving time for users to fix their answers. Delete them straightaway. Don't seem to be fair.

in Discussion on question by moonstar2001: Upvoted and accepted answer deleted by moderator, May 26 at 20:49, by sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan @AnkitSharma I don't think flagging new answers is going to do any good when there are tons of answers for the mods to work on already. You can run this query and sort by date, there are at least 100 answers (in 2016 alone) that have been flagged already. So the question is why are onlt @moonstar2001's answers targeted here?

@KeshavSrinivasan "Shoot first, ask questions later" -- is not a good policy in my opinion. creates lot of friction.

Mr_Green

5:19 AM

lol shoot first

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, for most sorts of issues that's not the approach we take. It's only when the answer doesn't answer the question that it's necessary to shoot first. Because otherwise you create perverse incentives, where people upvote answers that have nothing to do with the question just because they like the answer for its own sake. And it encourages others to post other answers responding to that answer which also do not answer the question.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Not everyone will try to work with the mods to fix their answers or question. I remember you had deleted my question as too broad. I worked with you to have it re-opened. But most users simply don't care enough, they get offended.

3

Q: Why didn't Kṛṣṇa really prevent the Mahābhārata war? Did Kṛṣṇa classify the Kurukṣetra war as hiṁsā or ahiṁsā?

Why didn't Kṛṣṇa really prevent the Mahābhārata war from taking place? Was the war really worth it? This answer says the war resulted in the death of more than a billion soldiers, horses and elephants on both sides. The numbers maybe inflated but what a great calamity! Isn't it the biggest war e...

mythology mahabharata krishna bhagavad-gita

@KeshavSrinivasan Why cannot a mod downvote the answer and state the reason -- 'deviating too much from OP's question...will be deleted soon if you don't fix it'

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. We discussed this before. Not all of those answers in the query are actually worthy of deletion. How we as mods respond to posts is that we look at posts that have been flagged. Now if you or someone else would like to go through those 400 (or more posts), find out which ones really don't cite sources, and flag those, you are welcome to do so.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Sorry but only 10-15 flags are allowed per day. If you can transfer your moderatorship to me for a day, I can do it for you :)

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, but in the mean time that encourages others to write similar answers.

The Destroyer

5:25 AM

@KeshavSrinivasan Though this is good approach, it is increasing unnecessary meta posts, which are detrimental to the community. They are perceiving you like Parasurama with axe attacking "Kshatriyas".

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Haha, you can flag them over multiple days if you like.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan I agree, which is why I said, downvote and state the reason.

@KeshavSrinivasan And in the meantime, fix the question to remove all opinion-based and unclear stuff. As advised in this meta question.

7

Q: Consider fixing questions that will lead to opinion-based or low-quality answers

Recently, I found that the nature of some questions leads to answers: that are opinion-based or that deviate too much from OP's title or main question or that are of very low quality So, I'm encouraging experienced users to improve or fix such questions. These problematic questions may conta...

discussion featured post-quality editing suggestions

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, people will still see the answer and want to respond, lots of people don't read comments under the post.

Mr_Green

downvoting by a single mod and upvoting by all community members will still perceive the post as on-topic. we don't have much participation that is the problem.

@TheDestroyer lol

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan we don't have that many users getting inspired by others' answers .. only about 10-15 are writing answers anyway.

Tezz

5:31 AM

@TheDestroyer lol.. Parashurama with an axe..😀😀

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. There are tons of anonymous users posting answers every day.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Those are all one-liners.

The Destroyer

@Mr_Green But keshav point is logical too. We should delete those questions which deviate from Hinduism. New users may take it as inspiration.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Anyway, IMO, this answer by moonstar2001 has to be immediately reinstated.

5

Q: Upvoted and accepted answer deleted by moderator

There is this question on whether saints and sages can be worshiped in Hinduism and why Sai Baba is worshipped in Hindu temples. Why Saibaba is worshipped as a deity in Hindu temples? I gave examples of saints that are enshrined and worshipped as deities. I also provided commentary on why Sai ...

discussion sources-and-citations moderators deleted-answers

hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/12306

@KeshavSrinivasan See my answer below.

5

A: What should we do about opinion based answers?

I agree with @Mr.Alien that We cannot delete the answers unless they are surely wrong or makes no sense. Also, from @BeHappy's answer to Guidelines for new users answering questions which received 17 upvotes as of today: 3. If no such text references are present, then users can provide ans...

Mr_Green

@TheDestroyer Yeah I agree. but community members aren't able to understand it. maybe we need to add a new mod by not altering the existing mods ofcourse.

Keshav Srinivasan

5:34 AM

@sv. I disagree. Now if that answer was edited to provide some evidence that those saints really are worshipped in those temples, like links to websites, I'd be happy to reopen it.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Well then you and @Mr.Alien simply disagree on that point.

He wrote:

3

A: What should we do about opinion based answers?

Side note: For most of the users who don't have sufficient privileges to view deleted answers, its just 6 answers for them and not 7. Coming to the question, it has around 2.5K views so the question was listed in Hot Network Questions for sure, so when any of the question enters into Hot Network...

He stated 5 reasons to deleted opinion-based answers.

Totally wrong, off-topic (question is something else and answer is something else),
Comment like answer (if useful, convert that into a comment)
Thank you answer
Rude/Offensive
Providing ONLY scientific reasons
Cross religion answer, explaining other religions philosophy (depends on the question though)

moonstar's answer doesn't fit into any of it.

sv.

And we have following guidance:

3. If no such text references are present, then users can provide answers which they have learned or heard about the culture from parents and others. (If their answers are authentic then other users might be able to provide references to their source scripture.)

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. That answer was written in the site's early days, back before we started requiring users to cite sources.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Time to go back and update all those answers by mods? Because it's sending all confusing messages or simply delete those answers which don't make sense or the rules have changed.

The Destroyer

If a high rep user answer (not about immilind, generally) is deleted, instead of raising it in meta, he can contact active community members and he can take their opinions. He shouldn't consider that is Mod's view. Many active high rep users agree with Moderator (Keshav's) view in housing and buying answer. We can solve these issues amicably in chat rooms.

sv.

5:38 AM

17

A: Guidelines for new users answering questions

Few guidelines for answering questions about Hinduism: An answer is most acceptable and authentic when it is based upon Vedic scriptures and gives proper reference to the source. Some of the credible scriptures are as below: Vedas and the primary Upanishads Smrutis (Bhagavd Gita, Manu Smu...

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Yes, and users can talk to mods in chat.

sv.

I often point new users to that post by @BeHappy.

He said: "(If their answers are authentic then other users might be able to provide references to their source scripture.)"

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Yeah, some of the Meta answers from the early days of the site may need to be revised.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan For someone else to update moonstar2001's answer, you need to leave it as is, if you delete it only high-rep users can see it.

Mr_Green

Instead of revising, how about creating a new page?

there are many identical posts which are confusing.. as in this matter

sv.

5:41 AM

@Mr_Green Exactly! A highrep user like myself sees all these rules very confusing.

Mr_Green

maybe we can update the existing help page..

sv.

@Mr_Green And no ones knows what rules are mods following these days.

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, that would require leaving all unsourced answers up, which would be a very bad policy. But what we could do is create a chat room where high-reputation users post the text of deleted answers and invite people to try to find sources to back up the claims made in those answers.

@sv. I think it's pretty clear what rules we're following from our more recent Meta comments and answers.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Sorry, that defense will not sell to many. We need rules documented as answers in meta.

Not in comments!

@KeshavSrinivasan Rules simply have to match with our FAQs.

@KeshavSrinivasan If you keep telling new users that those FAQs are "outdated", "from early days of the site" .. that's a bad way to run a forum!

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Yeah, we haven't customized the text of the FAQ's for our site yet. We should do that.

Mr_Green

5:46 AM

I agree with sv. we need to document it somewhere as official page.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Yes, IMO, we do that first, then start deleting answers!

Mr_Green

I am ready to participate in draft doc if there is something going to happen such.

iammilind

All, @KeshavSrinivasan ... Sorry I am interrupting here in the ongoing discussion. I am referring to your initial comment about "not an answer", which is agreed by @Pandya, @sv., @TheDestroyer. To me my first line answers the question objectively.

> "Do Hindu scriptures recommend one to buy and live in their own house instead of renting one, or vice versa? If so, what reasons do they give? Does Hindu scripture discuss whether the house one buys should be a new one or an old construction?"

Anything of them.

There is no strong reason to nullify it objectively.

It will be a deadlock, and benefit of doubt goes to answerer

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind But the vast majority of your question does not answer the specific question asked. If you want to make it a one or two line answer that simply says that Hindu scripture does not address the question of whether buying a house or renting a house is better, I'd be happy to undelete it.

iammilind

If you can explain me why "Anything of them" is not an answer, then I will put forward my arguments and it will be in loop.

sv.

5:50 AM

@iammilind I did not follow what u mean by "Anything of them" -- is it "Any one of them?"

iammilind

> Hindu scripture does not address the question of whether buying a house or renting a house is better, I'd be happy to undelete it.

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind Well, if you found a scripture that said "Buying or renting a house are equally fine." then that would be one thing. But if Hindu scripture just does not discuss that specific subject, just say it doesn't discuss it.

iammilind

Gita reference is cited. One should not be concerned with housing.

> Non-attachment and absence of fondness with regard to children, wives, homes, etc.,

@sv. I used "anything" because lots of Qn are combined. You can assume "anyone" for housing part.

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind But that is not a verse that specifically discusses buying vs. renting.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan I agree.

iammilind

5:55 AM

"Buying or renting" what?

House? (or something else)

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind That is not a verse that specifically discusses buying a house vs. renting a house. It mentions houses, but it's not on the specific subject of buying a house or renting a house.

iammilind

@KeshavSrinivasan My answer is focussed on the root cause.

The Destroyer

@iammilind Dharma Sastras or Vastu Sastra related scriptures give proper answer rather than gita.

iammilind

For example, if I ask you. I have got admission in USA, I should come by Air India or Luftansa? You may say anything. Because education is important.

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind OK, but the question is asking about a very specific factual matter, which is whether Hindu scripture specifically addresses the subject of buying a house or renting a house. An answer to that question would either be "No, it does not address it." or "Yes, it does address it here, here, and here."

iammilind

5:59 AM

@TheDestroyer isn't it your opinion? What if someone disagrees. Will you delete an answer?

@KeshavSrinivasan. That specifics are answred using "SwaDharma".

@All, don't take my arguments with fellow members to "undelete" the answer. This is how the discussion should happen amicably before deleting an answer. Just setting an example

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind There is nothing in your answer that points to a scriptural verse that addresses this specific subject. It might be true that there are scriptures which state things which can be applied to the problem of buying a house vs. renting a house, but the question was specifically worded to prevent answers like that.

@iammilind The discussion can happen equally amicably after the answer has been deleted, as it's happening now.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Second that!

iammilind

@KeshavSrinivasan, I don't see it's worded like that. You are putting me in a loop. Refer the 1st comment. "Anything of them" answers it.

sv.

I worked with Keshav to have my question re-opened as it was too long. He closed it. I worked overtime to have it re-opened!!!

3

Q: Why didn't Kṛṣṇa really prevent the Mahābhārata war? Did Kṛṣṇa classify the Kurukṣetra war as hiṁsā or ahiṁsā?

Why didn't Kṛṣṇa really prevent the Mahābhārata war from taking place? Was the war really worth it? This answer says the war resulted in the death of more than a billion soldiers, horses and elephants on both sides. The numbers maybe inflated but what a great calamity! Isn't it the biggest war e...

mythology mahabharata krishna bhagavad-gita

iammilind

@sv. Fine

The Destroyer

6:04 AM

@iammilind But how can you say it is my opinion without reading Vastu Sastra? AFAIK, vastu Sastra doesn't distinguish between buying and renting. Vastu Sastra can be possible scripture you can cite rather than Philosphical text Gita. Vastu Sastra deals with rules of construction of houses and related stuff.

Mr_Green

^ I don't know much guys but I feel the same that geeta isn't the right thing to cite in that post.

that makes human trafficking good too

buying or renting humans

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind The question says ""Do Hindu scriptures recommend one to buy and live in their own house instead of renting one, or vice versa?" So it's quite clear that the question is asking about Hindu scripture explicitly discussing this specific subject. If it's unclear to you, maybe we need to make the wording clearer.

iammilind

@TheDestroyer, @Mr_Green, let me agree with all of you that Gita is not right. Can you prove it objectively? You will always start with "I think".

Mr_Green

@iammilind no I can't. going in mute mode :)

iammilind

@KeshavSrinivasan, loop.

Sorry I am on mobile so can't type that easy.

The Destroyer

6:09 AM

@iammilind There are some pramanas in Hinduism. You should accept some facts first and you can verify them later by expanding consciousnes. The verification is up to you. This is how Hinduism is different from other faiths.

iammilind

@TheDestroyer are those "pramanas" mentioned at help centers for deleting a post. If not then it becomes an opinion.

The only criteria of "answer" is addressing query (1st line of my answer) and citing sources(gita, swadharma)

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind Yeah, we are going in circles. So to sum up, if you edit your answer so that it simply says "Hindu scripture does not specifically discuss this subject." I'd be happy to undelete it. And if you feel that the question is not clearly asking whether Hindu scripture specifically discusses the subject or not, then I'll edit the question so that it more clearly says that.

iammilind

Rest are just opinions & are not enough to delete an answer.

The Destroyer

@iammilind See, if you doubt authencity of Gita, you shouldn't even cite it. But, that's altogether different topic.

iammilind

@TheDestroyer I didn't doubt.

The Destroyer

6:13 AM

When one acts in Swadharma [BG 18.47], the attachments don't bind easily. Below are few examples of how people decide their Swadharma based on affordability:

Having own house & car might be part of American Dream. But predominantly in other developed nations such as Germany & Netherlands, people rent homes & rent cars, respectively.
Decide based on your workplace to avoid waste of time & resources.
A long term planner should buy a house for good of his/her own children & further generations
A short term planner should rent a house to avoid big liabilities of loans & keep oneself free

But this is your Dharma right? You are writing your opinions.right?

iammilind

@KeshavSrinivasan, The only criteria of "answer" is addressing query (1st line of my answer) and citing sources(gita, swadharma). If these 2 are not met then answer can be deleted. Anything outside it are just opinions.

@TheDestroyer, those are examples of various possible SwaDharma-s not my opinion. 1st one is direct from verified source. See my comment Pandya's meta answer.

In general in Philosophy websites people have to be liberal. Conservative people don't deserve moderatorship. Again that's my opinion which can't be imposed but just expressed.

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind The question is whether Hindu scripture specifically addresses the subject or not. You simply did not answer that. If you'd like to revise your answer so that it is an answer to that, I'd be more than happy to undelete it.

The Destroyer

@iammilind No liberals and no conservative. Liberals often interpret in their own way. Liberals or whoever views must conform with views of Acharyas.

iammilind

@KeshavSrinivasan, I know you like to have the last comment. But I am resting my case here.

Hope to see this kind of discussion in future before deleting and not afterwards.

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind "In general in Philosophy websites people have to be liberal. Conservative people don't deserve moderatorship." I disagree. I am an orthodox Sri Vaishnava Brahmin with traditional views on the caste system, the role of women, animal sacrifice, etc., but that doesn't affect my moderation of the site.

iammilind

6:21 AM

Thanks all for all your involvement. It really brought the community at 1 platform. Special thanks to @Pandya.

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind There are tons of answers on this site which argue against the caste system, which argue against traditional gender roles for men and women, which argue that Vishnu and Shiva are the same, etc. but I don't take action against them. All views are welcome here, as long as users follow the rules of the site.

Mr_Green

dharma.se nice. but we definitely need scriptural references.. always. otherwise intention of this whole site will be lost.

we will become yet another quora

Keshav Srinivasan

@iammilind And yeah, for the most part I do discuss things with users beforehand. It's only in the rare case of an answer that doesn't address the question that more immediate action is necessary. But remember, deletion isn't a death sentence. So then next time you see your answer deleted, feel free to ping me in chat and we can discuss it. Nice talking to you.

@Mr_Green Yeah, citing sources is the only way this site will develop a reputation as a place where you can always get reliable information about Hinduism

The Destroyer

@iammilind I'm not against you. I just disagree with some of your views. No personal grudges. BTW, i liked your answers about Caste system. Now, i feel sometimes you are writing your own interpretation in answers.

Mr. Alien

8:43 AM

@iammilind Meta says so.. :) cuz mod hatred questions are all over meta

@sv. He/she does explains why Sai Baba is worshipped... but he suspects -> * I suspect one of the reasons that Shirdi Baba is worshipped* ... kinda doubts, all Keshav did was to back this off with a link or a source .. I can post an answer with my thoughts like Sai Baba is worshiped today cuz he was great, he used to heal people and hence people used to love him and so on, don't you expect me to share a source to support this? Yes or No

@sv. @iammilind just a question for you both, or I would say FYI, I was ready to step down and had already emailed SE team about it cuz no matter how mods handle things on this site, some specific people are always against them and is no good. Instead of discussing, we go to public and start a war... so do you have any good replacement for current mods? If yes than please let me knw...

@iammilind @sv. also just to add this, not showing off but if you are an user on Hinduism since day one, than you might be know that I was the only active mod who handled the website for more than 6-8 months before Keshav and Ankit joined. I am still active but not that frequent though I've started visiting the site frequently. but keeping these things aside, just want you to answer my previous question

Pandya

10:11 AM

@iammilind so, have you understand the views of community users?

@iammilind I've read the discussions on this room overall. I found that you are crabby (not sure about proper word) as You're continuously saying that I am right with may answer and quotation with Gita. But it looks your opinion for me as like others.

@iammilind And whenever other tries to explain, you say that it's your opinion

@iammilind I've seen @KeshavSrinivasan lots of time saied about undeletion if you correct it

The Destroyer

@Pandya it seems he left the site. His profile description says "Inactive".

Pandya

I'm agree with most of discussion with @sv. and @KeshavSrinivasan

@TheDestroyer Hmm... I've experienced such in case of @Rickross earlier:

Update-2: Question is fixed and reopened. Your answer doesn't cover the question at all. As i have said many times before that i was only answering the Q partially..now if someone intentionally remove those portions from the Q,to which i was replying then nothing can be done atleast by me..To the earlier Q my answer was valid and as u have said in the answer it shudn't have been deleted....In anycase ,initially i felt i shud leave this site for ever because i never like to be be a part of a site/forum where unjust and biased mods are there,but later thought "ok let me stick on.". — Rickross Nov 29 at 7:40

I had tried to handle that:

@Rickross you've said that "i felt i shud leave this site". My suggestion is better to forgot this issue and start contributing again with fresh positive mind/energy. Best of luck! — Pandya Nov 29 at 11:25

Btw,

18 hours ago, by Pandya

Note for visitors If you think you should have write access here, ping me or moderator in our main chat-room.

@iammilind Btw, don't consider me as against you personally (or target in your words) I've not downvoted your recent meta post (FYI)

@Mr.Alien @Mr_Green @Sv. @TheDestroyer @KeshavSrinivasan Thanks for participating here.

Mr. Alien

11:21 AM

@Pandya appreciated dude....

Pandya

@Mr.Alien Thanks

@moonstar2001 You've told that we need to change moderators in answer.

Those who think we need to change, what changes do we need? @all

@Mr.Alien why do you want to step down? Isn't Hinduism Stack Exchange need moderation?

"Kuputro Jayeta Kvachidapi Kumata na Bhavati"

Mr. Alien

12:02 PM

@Pandya I think few people think that they can get better mods which I completely agree and hence asking for replacement names

I dont mind stepping down if there's someone better.. I also recommended your name to Ankit and Keshav for my replacement

I would love to see you at mod position

The only reason i delete answes and keep the site clean is because our people tend to compromise quality over quantity

I am fine with less answers on the site but i want quality one

I know what impression our people has on stack overflow.. i want to make it better here.. since the day people started complaining about stringent mod rules

I started losing interest

iammilind

12:42 PM

@Mr.Alien. I don't have any issues with your moderation. I haven't seen you (or Ankit Sharma) deleting any answer which are reasonable. The only complaint I have with you both is that you try to backup wrong decisions. May be you are feeling compelled to do so, like how a parents defend with their naughty kids.

@Pandya, regarding your Qn:

> so, have you understand the views of community users? I found that you are crabby (not sure about proper word) as You're continuously saying that I am right with may answer and quotation with Gita. But it looks your opinion for me as like others.

May be you meant, I am "cribbing". NO. This is how the discussions are ought to happen. You are probably assuming that I am wrong because I am alone and others are right because they are too many. That's not right. What I talk is "Objectivity". You need to understand the meaning of it.

What is Objectivity for this site? ==> A post is "not an answer", if it lacks sources and doesn't address the Qn.
My post doesn't fall under that, because I have addressed the Qn in 1st line. And cited "housing" related source from Gita. Once you understand "Objecivity", then you should learn about "Benefit of doubt", which goes to answerer, because he/she puts efforts. While Mod just clicks "delete" button.

But I think I will not repeat the whole thing again, as I have rested my case here.

@TheDestroyer, oh so you noticed my "inactive" status? Well yes, if I had an issue with only Mod, then I could have stuck with the community like my earlier sabbatical. But I think, there are many users with whom I have disagreement on the "Objectivity". When there are many opposers then it's best for one to step down.

BTW, our team is building an Android app called "Saarathy" which will be location based. Due to my over involvment in Hinduism, I was unable to pay attention to it as I am the primary coder in that. With this break, I think I will be more productive. :-)

My next target is to have an Android app for "Bhagavad Gita" with perfect translations and multi language support and searchable & queriable verses.

Tezz

@iammilind hmm.. good to hear that you are making Android App for Bhagvad Gita..👍👍👍

iammilind

@Tezz, no haven't started. I first need to get the real translations. For that I have to research myself or take help from the experts. Yes I intend to do in future if time + sources permit.

@Mr.Alien, regarding your Qn:
> @sv. @iammilind just a question for you both, or I would say FYI, I was ready to step down and had already emailed SE team about it cuz no matter how mods handle things on this site, some specific people are always against them and is no good. Instead of discussing, we go to public and start a war... so do you have any good replacement for current mods? If yes than please let me knw...

I can't say who can be a good Mod. Actually I have received an offer, but when I told Kevin Chang (Pops), that other Mods may not like me, he didn't revert back.

See below email with my reply. May be my over transparency worked against me.

-----
Hi Pops, Kevin,

Thanks for contacting me to convey the honour of moderatorship. Though you may have seen some qualities in my contributions, I would like to give some first-hand information about certain other criteria, which could have been missed by you.

1. My views & answers are more liberal on Hinduism compared to many other orthodox users, which makes me sometime unfavorable yet neutral among large section of users. On the other hand it strikes a balance in the community to avoid one way leaning.

iammilind

1:04 PM

I don't think Pandya is ready to become a neutral moderator yet. See this comment:
http://meta.hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/708/should-we-change-at-least-one-of-our-current-moderators?noredirect=1#comment2481_709

Anyone who becomes a new moderator should not act under the shadow of current Mod(s). He or she should be cooperative. I think @sv. or @moonstar2001 can be good Mods. For me, I can't participate now anymore unless I am the Mod. :-) Hence going inactive.

The Destroyer

1:24 PM

@iammilind You shouldn't put views as Orthodox and liberal. There's no "objectivity" in Maya. We should follow words of Acharyas. See this question which says idol worship is prohibited as per Yajurveda.

0

Q: Hinduism is extremely confusing for me?

First of all, I am a Hindu myself and I am saying this with no intentions of converting to any other religion but there some misconceptions that really boggle my mind. The biggest of them is that in the Vedas, the Upanishads and even in the Bhagavad Gita it is prevented to worship idols and it i...

bhagavad-gita bhagavata-purana dharma

We can only go with commentaries of Acharyas and go with their views. Why to change their interpretations now?

iammilind

@TheDestroyer, from your general talks, it seems that you are too idealistic. Nothing wrong in it. In this site, many are idealistics. Are you married or still bachelor?
Remember my words: "Ideals are until marriage." :-)

The Destroyer

@iammilind haha. I'm bachelor. But i know those things won't work out. I shout outside sometimes (or pretend as irked) to get somethings done quickly..

@iammilind My suggestion to your App.. Add commentaries of Shankara, Ramanuja and some eminent Acharyas rather than our own interpretation..

bhagavad-gita.us

This is the best site..

iammilind

@TheDestroyer, ;-) good, then enjoy your time. I am married with 2 kids (4 & 2). Also running a small software company in Bangalore. When I was a bachelor and doing job, I was too idealistic in my "Hindu" views. But those things changed, when I entered in marriage, had kids and started company.

When we grow in such direction, we understand that how to be "all inclusive".

The Destroyer

@iammilind I think you want to say answers should be more practical. Right?

iammilind

@TheDestroyer, now you understood. It should be practicality and "all inclusive".

[Note: When people here criticise "Islam" or "Christianity" or "Buddhism", I feel that we are missing the basic essence of Indian culture. Which is "all inclusive".]

The Destroyer

1:35 PM

@iammilind BTW, me too Android App developer. I have a plan to build complete Shiva Purana app as info about Shiva is less on internet. But right now i'm concentrated on other app. But i plan to launch it before Maha Sivaratri.

@iammilind you should see what we criticize. I criticize only bad interpretations of Islam.. There are two interpretations for "Jihad".

iammilind

@TheDestroyer, good to know. Good luck on the same!

@TheDestroyer, do you know, I am now even OK with Islamists killing people on the name of Jihad & beheading people. They are just acting in their own tendencies which is "Tamas". Rest of the world should act in their own tendency to be "Saatvika". Let the fight continue. But I don't despise those extremists, I just feel that I don't agree with them and those extremists should be killed without any extra cruelty.

The Destroyer

@iammilind But i can't forget what it has done to my country. But still it all happened at will of our hindu Gods. We were fighting and Lord sent them make us united.. It's simple. Vishnu didn't incarnate to save us because we forgot true teachings and were busy fighting.. It's all karma.

@iammilind but you should stop "Tamas" from growing or try to make the world "Satvika" for prosperous and happy world.

iammilind

@TheDestroyer, That's simply not possible. If growth of "Tamas" could have been stoppable, then our ancestors should have stopped it. The "Tamas", "Rajas" & "Sattva" can be just observed. They can NOT be controlled in anyway. They always remain as it is.

The Destroyer

@iammilind Obviously not. India was Satvika before Islamic invasions.. after Islamic invasions it became Tamas.. Britishers made it Rajasic and it is still Rajasic..

iammilind

@TheDestroyer, LOL. Ok, let's not discuss this further. May be some other day. ;-)

The Destroyer

1:50 PM

@iammilind Ok. finally i want you to say one thing. There's no objectivity in Maya. We people always have difference in opinions.

Mr_Green

I think sv. should also stand for mod

Pandya

2:10 PM

@iammilind You've said ". For me, I can't participate now anymore unless I am the Mod "I don't think you can't participate to an SE community without being a mod!? - This is not How SE works :p

iammilind

@Pandya, I meant not for this SE.

@Mr_Green, regarding @sv. to be Mod, I had asked his interest a while back, but apparently not much interested yet. See this comment: meta.hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/656/…

Pandya

@iammilind so, are you considering this community different in moderation and participation way?

@iammilind I haven't heard yet about it.

A Theory of Moderation

Jeff Atwood on May 18, 2009

We believe deeply in community moderation. That's why we appoint Pro Tempore Moderators and, ideally, democratically elected community moderators for every site in our network. But what do community moderators do? The short answer is, as little as possible!

iammilind

@Pandya, IMO, I am not fit enough for the kind of moderation happening here. Hence for me to participate productively, I need to have control. Which I can't have, unless I am a Mod myself. But that doesn't seem possible. Due to which I will choose to be "inactive". And I don't think that will matter much to the community in anyways.
"Stubborn people should be left on their own." May be you can consider me one of them at this point, as I am in a state of "My way or high way". I can't help myself to get over it. :-)

Thanks all. Get to go! Please continue the productive discussion ahead.

Pandya

2:26 PM

@iammilind anyway, I don't think that the moderation of this community is of such nature that one can't contribute/participate in the community. If your decision is to leave community, I don't endorse it. Thanks.

@iammilind By the way, how is your experience in other sites?

I just found that your contribution is 2nd major in Hinduism.SE after SO. @iammilind

@Mr.Alien Then how about meta post for that like "we are planning for...... Give your review/choice" ?

Do SE allow/support such posts/procedure?

moonstar2001

3:07 PM

@iammilind @iammilind and @sv are good candidates for the role of Mod. I believe the site will vastly benefit from their deliberation and objectivity.

Mr_Green

you mentioned iammilind twice @moonstar2001

maybe you were supposed to mention someone else

moonstar2001

@Mr_Green Oops. I meant to mention Milind and SV

Mr_Green

ok :)

moonstar2001

3:27 PM

@TheDestroyer It is still tamasic, IMO

There are several other good candidates as well for the post of Mod.

The Destroyer

@moonstar2001 I feel more Rajasic than tamasic.. many people want "Artha" and "Kama" without "Dharma" and "Moksha".

moonstar2001

@TheDestroyer Wrong analogy. Parasurama protected and preserved dharma. This discussion is about the adharmic actions of the mods. Our mods are not Parasurama :-)

The Destroyer

@moonstar2001 I was talking about India not about Mods. :)

moonstar2001

Rajasic/Tamasic about India sure. But wasn't the parasurama analogy used in the context of mod behavior? My bad if it wasn't.

The Destroyer

3:44 PM

@moonstar2001 Haha.. Parasurama attacked Kshatriyas (Dharmic or Adharmic that's different matter). So, it looks like (to few) Keshav is attacking few particular users like Parasurama attacking "Kshatriyas". That's my analogy in Parasurama comment.

:P :P (i was just kidding)

moonstar2001

@TheDestroyer I know :-)

Pandya

4:57 PM

@Mr_Green Hello:

in Hinduism, Jun 8 at 10:28, by Pandya

oh! Mr.Alien is moderator not Mr_Green. That may be mistake.... (I was thinking that I am talking with moderator while talking with @Mr_Green)

^^ That was when I was newer to (be active) on this site!

Mr_Green

@Pandya haha yeah :)

Mr. Alien

6:49 PM

@Pandya sure they do, if you have replacements, please do suggest me, you guys can ping me. Me and Ankit are ready to drop out for new mods. Lets see how site progresses from there ;)

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