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5:00 PM
We're uh... doomed.
 
Let's keep this civil, everyone.
 
Let's just say civil war may break out.
 
Captain America:Civil War
2
 
I've seen and been in useful, interesting, and constructive discussions about abortion, and that up there wasn't any of those.
 
I don't want to talk about abortion.
Canada closed their immigration system because too many americans applied.
 
5:05 PM
I wonder how many Americans will actually follow through.
 
@El'endiaStarman Canada's immigration system crashed. The slashdot effect.
 
@El'endiaStarman Probably not very many.
 
@El'endiaStarman I don't think it's a discussion worth having, period. Both sides are motivated by very emotional reasons and there's no real compromise or reasoning that can be done
 
It should especially not be done in a fight in a temporary chat room on the Internet
 
5:08 PM
^^^
 
And it should not be done in such a provoking manner
 
"We're all gonna move to Canada" doesn't really solve any problems anyway, except for removing people you actually agree with from future elections. It's a fairly selfish sentiment.
4
 
@Geobits go to switzerland, 100% neutral
 
I don't know what neutrality has to do with it.
 
@betseg - your opinion on the elections? Erodgan or Trump as US President?
@Geobits neutral in wars = no nukes
 
5:10 PM
I'm fairly certain most people didn't vote based on nukes.
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Trump
 
@Geobits Not getting nuked is a major factor when deciding the presidency.
@betseg Why?
 
@Geobits Yes, I've thought this too. If you move elsewhere, you lose your voice.
 
@El'endiaStarman You can vote from abroad.
 
5:12 PM
Weight it: Your voice vs. not dying
 
I know people who have voted from Denmark
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC You're a bit hung up on this nuke thing I think.
 
@Geobits s/nukes/ww3
 
Kaz
@Geobits It's a thing worth getting hung up on.
 
5:14 PM
You guys should probably move then, if you're worried about that.
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Erdoğan would destroy the Central Park and build malls. He would give Mexicans firearms and send soldiers to the border. He would close Harvard and open a cathedral.
 
Kaz
@Geobits To where, Mars? Global nuclear war doesn't magically stop at the American Border.
 
@betseg I understand.
@Kaz africa won't get nuked
 
Who do you think is actually going to nuke us? Or get nuked? I just can't see how this is very likely at all.
 
Kaz
@Geobits Nuclear war between any 2 of USA, Russia, China. Maybe not China depending on just how many they have.
 
5:17 PM
Islamists are more likely to nuke the world than america
 
Islamists don't really have nukes. At least not in the quantities that the five nuclear powers do...
 
Kaz
@TuxCopter With what nukes? 1 Nuke is a catastrophe. 200,000 people dead, a small city obliterated, but not the end of the human race.
 
in The Nineteenth Byte, 20 secs ago, by Kritixi Lithos
A bot going to vote? There is something fishy in all of this, the election has been hacked!
 
Will Russia actually destroy its nuclear warheads?
 
The election has been hacked. Proven by your truly, NewMainPosts
 
Kaz
5:19 PM
@betseg The USA and Russia have been officially destroying theirs for years now. I think they're down into the thousands now, rather than the tens of thousands
 
What would be the point of nuclear war between US/Russia though? I don't see an angle for either side. Not many rulers are that eager to kill off many millions of their own people.
 
N. Korea will come in this mess
 
N Korea is going to sit there and strut like they've been doing for a long time. I don't know why they'd be eager to be wiped off the map.
 
Kaz
Official numbers:
Russia: 7,300
USA: 7,100
France: 300
China: 260
UK: 215
Pakistan: 140
India: 110
Israel: 80
That's "warheads"
The number in-missiles ready-to-fire at any given time is a fraction of that.
 
I thought Turkey had 50 warheads that were put by NATO?
 
5:23 PM
Huh, China have less warheads than what I would have imagined
 
Kaz
@TuxCopter Just a reminder that those are the "Official" numbers.
In fact, not even "official" numbers outside the top 5, just the official estimates.
 
@betseg Erdogan!
 
> Erodgan
 
Kaz
@betseg Don't quote me on this, but I think that whilst those nukes might be in Turkey, they're not under Turkish control.
 
wat
5:28 PM
@Kaz so gandhi can nuke us 110 times
2
 
@Kaz 5 countries have those NATO nuclear weapons
 
Canada, Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Turkey^^
 
Civ 5 meme
 
wat
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Civ II**
 
5:29 PM
> Our words are backed with nuclear weapons
 
No memes plz
 
Is this room about conspirationist theories or memes?
 
Neither plz
 
5:31 PM
@TuxCopter Both
 
I always trust greek letters
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC that's actually funny
 
wat
oh yeah trump won
 
Really?
 
5:36 PM
When were the elections? Were they today?!?!
 
wat
xD
I was sleeping
i'm in GMT-8 timezone
 
user image
3
Best reaction to the outcome imho. It would be hilarious if it wasn't that sad.
 
Seriously, what is the problem with Trump
 
probably not a good venue to discuss that
don't mean to be rude, but... He's got like 40 years in the public eye; if you wanna know what folks find objectionable, start with Wikipedia.
today, you're gonna get a lot of knee-jerk reactions and little substance, I suspect
 
Kaz
@TuxCopter Half the country thinks he's a straight-talking, successful, competent, honest guy who's going to sort out politics and solve the entrenched problems in the USA. And the other half thinks he's a crazy, idiotic, sex-abusing, racist, misogynistic, fascist monster. That's a gross over-simplification, but it is the essence of the problem.
 
5:43 PM
It can be concluded that. the. elections. were. hacked.
 
@TuxCopter Personally, I take issue with his (successful!) use and/or expression of racism, xenophobia, and misogynistic statements to stir up a lot of people who agree with him. I also note how he is very unreliable regarding what he says he will do.
@KritixiLithos Would you stop it already?
6
 
@Kaz i thought he was Daenrys Targaryen is disguise and will break the wheel
 
@Shog9 Yeah, I'm seeing that on Facebook already. And not a lot of expression of agreement with those who take more of a middle road.
 
@El'endiaStarman yeah... That - if it ever comes - will be a year or more out.
 
I think Obama's still waiting for that to come from his election.
Bush too, most likely.
 
6:00 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong - the dedicated haters will stay that way. But there are a ton of folks who were on the fence; heck, half the country just didn't vote at all. Those are the folks whose opinions might change based on performance... For better or for worse.
And, yeah, I have seen that happen with Obama. And with Bush (mostly the other direction). And with the first Clinton, for that matter.
Folks look back a year, 5 years, a decade later and think, "ok, that didn't work out so well" or "ok, that worked a lot better than I expected it to."
 
I didn't pay as much attention back in the 90s, so I didn't want to lump that in without knowing. Looking back it doesn't seem so bad, but I don't know what it was really like at the time.
 
@Geobits take all the crap that Clinton got during this past race, and add to it most of the crap that Trump got, and that's what we heard about the first Clinton for eight years.
 
Sounds fun
 
He was cast as corrupt, misogynistic (to put it nicely), careless, fickle (again, politely)... I think most folks tend to remember him more positively now.
 
Oh, I know the overall picture I guess. It's just that I was 10 when he was elected, so I just didn't care enough to know the details.
 
6:06 PM
Of course, it helps that Bush showed up to take the blame for the first dot-com crash, 9/11, the housing crash... Some of which he deserved, some of which of course he couldn't have done anything about.
 
Yep, it's always nice when someone show up to take the fall. Bush knows that pretty well on both ends I guess.
 
I suspect this is what tripped a lot of folks up this past campaign too; Clinton is remembered much more fondly these days among the younger folks, and folks who were involved in tech than he is by the folks affected by (or who think they were affected by) stuff like NAFTA.
...which in turn was mostly the work of GHW Bush
 
It'd be nice if candidates would talk about jobs in terms of automation imo. It's going to be an issue for some time to come, but nobody seems to want to address it.
 
6:55 PM
@Geobits include "mechanization" in that and it's been an issue for generations.
Problem is that solving the problems it causes without negating the advantages it brings requires a nuanced approach... Which doesn't fit well with politics.
 
Yeah. I didn't really mean to say it's just now starting, but that it isn't going away any time soon.
Wait, you mean politics isn't mainly a nuanced conversation about fixing societal problems? Crap.
 
So instead we get rhetoric that likes to treat "jobs" as some sort of Works Progress "give people shovels and make them dig canals" thing, which hasn't really reflected reality in... Well, again, generations.
 
7:26 PM
Automation and the slow erosion of the workforce is a real and pressing threat to the economic stability of this nation that very few political candidates want to address.
There are significant underlying pressures which have no easy answers making them very poor topics for politicians who insist every conversation be able to end in a collapsible and easily digested sound bite.
The problem is FAR more significant and only likely to grow more pressing in the years to come as automation, robotics and near-intelligent machines continue to erode more white collar workers in the future.
Part of the issue is the inability of the job market to create new jobs for workers at the same rate automation is removing them.
This means a greater percentage of our society will become unemployed faster than they can learn new skills to replace those jobs.
Here is an essay on the subject including the related (and politically dangerous topic of "basic income")
 
Dangerous to whom?
 
Dangerous to politicians who dare to speak on the subject of basic income.
A basic income (also called unconditional basic income, Citizen's Income, basic income guarantee, universal basic income or universal demogrant) is a form of social security in which all citizens or residents of a country regularly receive an unconditional sum of money, either from a government or some other public institution, in addition to any income received from elsewhere. An unconditional income transfer of less than the poverty line is sometimes referred to as a partial basic income. Basic income systems that are financed by the profits of publicly owned enterprises (often called social...
 
8:15 PM
@Shog9 From what I've heard, a lot of the people who didn't vote at all chose that path simply because they couldn't stand either of the main candidates.
Which might well have been what I'd have done too, had I been an American.
 
@Randal'Thor The only problem with that is there are also local votes and ballot questions that will likely effect your daily life more than the actual presidency. So if you can't stand either just vote third party or write in Mickey Mouse for president, but still go vote.
 
@Skooba Well, I don't really know how the US voting system works. I was just talking about the votes for president, not anything else that might be voted on.
 
how is a write-in better than not voting?
 
@Randal'Thor I know, just trying to give you a little insight.
 
or do you mean write-in for president but real votes for one of the other positions?
 
8:19 PM
@Ixrec exactly
 
@Skooba Yeah, I voted on all the downticket races but left the presidential pick blank. I couldn't stomach voting for either Trump or Clinton but I wanted to vote for senator, representative, etc.
 
user132126
I don't believe that the US voting system is in any way an effective means of enacting any political change that is going to benefit me.
 
well, probably not the presidential vote. But you can actually have a reasonable effect on local elections / ballot measures.
 
user132126
I think there is a strong, reasoned argument for choosing not to vote at all (and I also think others have made that argument better than I could).
 
I decided beforehand that whichever candidate won, I was going to take the attitude "well, at least the other one didn't win". So far it's worked pretty well in keeping my spirits up.
 
user132126
8:24 PM
I'm not convinced municipal and state laws are things where my voting is at all effective, either.
 
@Shog9 There were some pretty exciting ballot measures. In the vein of voting system efficacy Maine coted enacted ranked-choice voting for state and federal elections
 
Like in PA we had a ballot measure "Should the state constitution be changed to read that judges be required to retire at age 75" (something to that effect). What they DIDN'T tell you is that it already says they must retire at 70. So, if people were not aware of the issue they thought they were voting to set the age limit, but rather they were voting to raise it... it got a 51/49 Yes vote....
 
@1000000000 nice
 
@Randal'Thor thats not a bad way too look at from across the pond. at least the two gave toned down acceptance and conceding speeches. focusing on moving forward.
 
This room started as a room to keep out political discussions of TNB, and now it's populated with users from the entire SE network o_O
 
user132126
8:27 PM
And voting on local matters supposes I have the time to research all tho local issues and stances and pick candidates accordingly. How many people are up-to-date with everything on the local ballot? Skooba's example is perfect.
 
@Skooba Yeah, I'm really glad the losing candidate didn't start raving about how the elections were hacked, widening the rift in the country even more.
 
@TuxCopter Well, other stacks tried that, but we couldn't play nicely with our toys
 
@Randal'Thor Which makes me really curious how trump would be responding right now if he had lost
 
You guys have so far kept it a nice pto just kinda talk, maybe vent a little, but still Be Nice
Having Shog here probably helps
 
@CreationEdge I have to admit some of the local voting is pretty hard to find information on. My district was electing court judges and it was very hard to find information on any of them.
 
8:29 PM
@Randal'Thor or even straight up contesting vote counts
 
TNB's members do generally follow the Be Nice policy fairly well. Helped by our moderators.
 
Generally :P
 
Yes. Some members are human, after all...
 
There are plenty of exceptions, haha
 
@DrMcMoylex Well, that's academic at this point.
 
8:30 PM
@El'endiaStarman I always heard you guys liked to get rowdy in TNB :P
 
@CreationEdge You can just leave them blank. I did for some positions I couldn't find any meaningful information on. But if you truly don't care or know about any of it, then by all means.
@Skooba No idea how that reputation came about.
 
Nice to know we have a reputation, haha
 
@Geobits me right now
 
wat
9:12 PM
@DrMcMoylex We definitely have reputation
 
9:33 PM
Hmm just got a company wide e-mail about the election results, interesting.
 
@Yodle good, bad, indifferent?
 
Just about changing times and stuff
Nothing bad
 
our company chose to extend its lockdown (i.e., a ban on all software changes on production machines) for the rest of the week after the result was announced
 
I think we can all agree that strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government #draintheswamp :P
 
9:52 PM
I'm only accepting a leader who receives a magic sword from a lake monster. #Election2016
 
10:26 PM
What. On. Earth. Just. Happened. With. The. World.
2
 
I believe it rotated a bit
 
user132126
@JackBNimble What about one from a lady in a lake? Does it have to be a monster?
 
10:52 PM
@CreationEdge Cool avatar you have there
 
This is why Trump won. To be clear: I, personally, despise the man. We all know his issues by now, so I won't repeat them. But. Having just found - and annotated - his "Contract with the American Voter", I find myself agreeing with far more of the things he's proposing than I thought I would. He's a terrible person, but he knows how to get some agreement, and that's what won it for him.
user image
4
 
@ArtOfCode This looks interesting, I'll have to read it later.
Is this recent, or was this released a while ago?
 
user132126
 
@mbomb007 disclaimer: full of opinions
 
@ArtOfCode Btw, he wants trade, but he wants to renogotiate trade deals where we aren't losing money
 
11:02 PM
@mbomb007 Aye, I guessed my ten-second lookup of NAFTA wasn't the whole picture :)
 
Also, this is personal experience, but Obamacare only made premiums go up for me and people I nkow
 
Yeah, I'm not going to judge that policy, I know nowhere near enough about either side to do so accurately (and ten-second lookups won't work)
 
11:16 PM
Oh, I screwed up the tax one. I missed the bit about the business rate. Maybe make that block orange.
@ArtOfCode It looks like our annotations were similar. I felt that some of his points needed to be explained more - and I understand that it's hard to explain stuff in detail in this small a space, but some points were lacking.
 
@HDE226868 Looks like you're even more firmly left-wing than I am...
 
@ArtOfCode I probably am, though I tried not to look at this as a conservative agenda. Any particular stuff you thought was interesting?
 
@HDE226868 I was just noting the comparison between the numbers of each colour in our respective annotations
I'm seeing a lot more red than orange in yours. About the same number of greens, though
 
@ArtOfCode My favourite bit is "No. I'm British" :-P
 
I will not sign your fancy contracts, for I am British and have no need of them!
looking cautiously back over shoulder at Brexit
 
11:25 PM
@ArtOfCode That could just be because HDE is American and therefore knows more about e.g. Obamacare to be able to judge those bits of the 'contract' better.
 
@ArtOfCode I think the major ones were my rejection of his rejection of Obamacare - simply because the system isn't that broken that starting anew would be better; there's still somewhere to start from, and it's actually decent - and the Restoring National Security Act.
 
@HDE226868 It'd probably be interesting, at some point when I have the time, to learn about Obamacare and about the education things he mentions, so I could have a better grasp of those.
I mainly judged my green on education on his proposed increase of technical education, which I think is a big win
 
In all seriousness, how scared should I be for European friends in the US?
 
I have no idea what Common Core is, or what's he means by education supervision.
 
Oh, we also differed on the Community Safety thing. I don't like where that could go.
 
11:27 PM
Aye. That judgement was based on the reducing drug and gang violence thing
 
@ArtOfCode Yes. Maybe I still have Treyvon Martin in the back of my head and unfairly associate community policing with shootings.
@ArtOfCode I can't give you an unbiased view of Common Core, to be honest. Think of it as blanket standards on another level to standardized testing. From what I know of UK standardized testing, though, this might be different.
 
@HDE226868 Aye. That's what "get some better PR for the cops" was about.
I don't think American police are inherently bad, it's just a few rotten apples spoiling it for the innumerable good guys on the force.
 
@ArtOfCode I didn't mean police officers; I meant neighborhood watches.
 
Ah. What's the difference?
 
The latter are civilian-based, local, and against petty crime and vandalism.
They work sometimes, and sometimes they don't. I shouldn't cast aspersions.
I'm just not comfortable with where it could go, not necessarily where it will go.
 
11:32 PM
That makes sense. I don't think we have anything comparable over here, unless you count PCSO's
@HDE226868 UK standardized testing is... pretty standardized. It's getting better at compensating for various disabilities, but in general it's pretty standard.
 
It's a neighborhood watch not a warning (like the weather system thing). You're supposed to call the police, as always.
Canada's immigration website crashed earlier today...
 
@Mazura Yeah, that's a different thing to PCSO's here then. Police Community Support Officers, basically like the police but without the powers of arrest.
 
11:47 PM
We can do a 'citizen's arrest', but you'd better be awfully careful going about it (for legal reasons, I'm not even talking about personal safety).
 
Likewise here, though you don't need to be so careful
ProTip: if you read someone their rights when placing them under citizen's arrest, they take it more seriously.
 
Why do people hate 'her' so much. Just what was, or did people think were, in those emails?
 
@Mazura Simple. Gender.
 
Kaz
@Zizouz212 Bullshit. You ran any even halfway competent female politican instead of Clinton and she wipes the floor with Trump.
 
@Zizouz212 No.
Trump had substantial female support.
 
11:59 PM
Oh boy, here we go....
 
@Kaz Easy.
 
It's not the only reason, but I'm sure it was a factor
 

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