V'dibarta Bam - 2013-05-08

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12:56 AM

@msh210

@SethJ and msh210 Would my question be opened if I ask for the single most Torah verse only? Actually I do not know much, thus the confusion. — Gulshan 58 mins ago

@SethJ I think that's still not constructive

It's not about Jewish life and learning

1:35 AM

@Daniel, that's fair. I just wanted @msh210 to see it, because he wasn't properly pinged.

1 hour later…

2:38 AM

@Daniel Why not?

@Daniel I don't understand. It's about Jewish prayer.

@SethJ Thanks.

@ both of you:

IMO if the question were edited so it asked for the one Tanach verse, or for the one Pentateuch verse, or both, most repeated in prayers, that'd definitely be reopenable. What @IsaacMoses said would still hold, though. — msh210 1 min ago

@msh210, I'm not done probing.

3:24 AM

Is it weird that every time I see the word "believed", I keep reading it like it rhymes with בדיעבד? — Shimon bM 12 mins ago

4

3:49 AM

Mazel Tov to our new Archaeologist!

4

4:00 AM

Chabad.org Omer Counter: Count 43 Days on Tuesday Night, May 7, 2013

posted on May 08, 2013

Today is forty-three days, which is six weeks and one day of the Omer. Today's attribute: Chesed ShebeMalchus

4:17 AM

@DoubleAA Strangely, the first time that ever happened to me was while reading that comment, but before getting to the end and finding out what it said

1 hour later…

5:38 AM

@shulem, before you ask, it was I who deleted the comments on judaism.stackexchange.com/q/28542 -- and I shall continue deleting comments that do not relate to the post they're comments on. Bring it to chat or pose a question on Meta if you have one.

2 hours later…

7:31 AM

i shall post in on meta in detail

7:52 AM

Downvotes without comments can give the wrong impression. The reason on this site for downvotes is varied. One does not agree to the answer. One does not understand it. Others may not understand it. It doesnt answer the question exactly. There is a better answer. I am sure there are many more. My question is that downvotes which are not for the first reason that one doesnt agree with the answer can give the wrong impression that the downvoter thinks the answer is wrong halachically or if not wrong not too bad if done. So at least he should mention in a comment that he agrees with it but ha…

8:19 AM

0

Q: Downvotes that can give the wrong impression

Downvotes without comments can give the wrong impression. The reason on this site for downvotes is varied. One does not agree to the answer. One does not understand it. Others may not understand it. It doesnt answer the question exactly. There is a better answer. I am sure there are many more. My...

6 hours later…

1:51 PM

Any rabbiz in the hizzle? Thoughts on Gimmel?

user image

My thoughts, as posted on FB:
"The reason, as explained to me, is that the Ta"Z is the only one who holds that Ma'ariv effects a change in the status of the day. However, if I'm not mistaken, since it is a Da'as Yachid that affects a DeOraisa, we go LeChumra. Sephardim have an easy way out, as the Ta"Z is not cited as normative Halachah for them in other areas like he is for us."

Am I wrong? Am I right? Am I kind of right but missed something?

(Ping R' @DoubleAA, R' @HodofHod, and R' @Alex. Did I miss any other rabbis here?)

7

A: Rabbonim on the site

There are no numbers on this, nor are there ever likely to be. Personal information is not required of anyone on this site, and never will be. Most people choose not to offer very much. There have been several Rabbis who used their real names etc., but actual numbers do not exist.

Try R' @Community.

Streisand effect

The Streisand effect is the phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet. It is named after American entertainer Barbra Streisand, whose attempt in 2003 to suppress photographs of her residence inadvertently generated further publicity. Similar attempts have been made, for example, in cease-and-desist letters, to suppress numbers, files and websites. Instead of being suppressed, the information receives extensive publicity and media extensions...

@DoubleAA To be fair, I don't think @SethJ's looking for pesak so much as for the type of analysis someone who studies/renders pesak would be good at providing. Still, the best tool we offer for seeking such is judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/ask

2:09 PM

@IsaacMoses I would, but then the whole internets would find out how little I know!

;-P

8

Q: Davening early Maariv first night of Shavuos

I have always heard that on the first night of Shavuos you should wait till Tzais HaKochavim for Maariv in order to have Temimos - 7 complete weeks of Sefira. Recently I heard that Harav Ovadia Yosef holds that it is not an issue and you may make an early Yom Tov. Does anyone know if this is corr...

halacha shavuos zemanim maariv

@SethJ Good thing you're pseudonymous

2:26 PM

Anyone have a copy of: Shut Hitorerut, R. Shimon Sofer (Teshuva 2:56)?

@SethJ hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1770&pgnum=84

Interesting header.

2:43 PM

@DoubleAA Wow.

why did you edit the changes I proposed. I mean the second as much as the first if not more so.

שמעון סופר (ערלוי)

הרב שמעון סופר (כ"ח באייר ה'תר"י; 1850 - כ"א בסיוון ה'תש"ד; 1944), היה רב וראש ישיבה, ממנהיגי יהדות הונגריה ב. נספה בשואה עם בני קהילתו ומשפחתו. ביוגרפיה נולד לרב אברהם שמואל בנימין סופר (ה"כתב סופר") בעיר פרשבורג. בשנת תר"ל התחתן עם אסתר פריד מקהילת קליינווארדין בהונגריה. בקליינוורדין למד תורה בתמיכת חותנו, כמקובל באותם ימים. שנתיים לאחר נישואיו נפטרה אשתו, והוא נותר עם בת יחידה. לאחר מכן נשא את בת דודתו (בת ר' חיים שמואל בירנבוים חתן רבי עקיבא אייגר). בתקופה זו התיישב באוקראינה, באומן ובקייב, שם נודע כאחד מגדולי התורה. עוד שנתיים ישב בעיר קרקוב, ולמד אצל דודו – רב העיר, הרב שמעון סופר,...

Why have links to blogs telling you how not to keep the torah

If that girl is reading this she must be laughing her head off

@shulem Whom are you addressing?

@SethJ I assume it's a continuation of his thoughts from the meta post

2:50 PM

@shulem If I'm not mistaken, someone who engages in premarital relations should go to the mikva. (CYLOR.) So the blog -- which I haven't read, but based on the description of it I saw on the site -- tells you how to keep the Torah.

@msh210 Someone who engages in marital relations should too.

@DoubleAA True, but not at issue.

Charles Koppelman

@DoubleAA And perhaps someone who engages in extramarital relations.... but that's another issue altogether

....that is, assuming it's the man and not the woman who's married

(although i wonder what the psak on that one would be....)

@CharlesKoppelman I don't see why that'd be different. It's an isur mosif or whatever it's called -- applies to more people -- so en isur chal al isur shouldn't apply.

@CharlesKoppelman either way, the woman should still go to the mikva

@msh210 Kim lei would, but that doesn't negate this.

2:52 PM

@DoubleAA Right.

@DoubleAA "leih"?

@msh210 because of the mapik? i suppose so

"Leih" looks really ugly, though.

קם ליה בדרבה מיניה

קם ליה בדרבה מיניה (קלב"מ) הוא ביטוי הלכתי (פירוש מילולי מארמית בבלית - עומד בפני הגדול ממנו) שמשמעותו: כאשר מגיעים לאדם שני עונשים על מעשה אחד, או על שני מעשים שנעשו בו זמנית, הוא מקבל רק את העונש החמור מביניהם. מקור בתורה מופיעים מספר מקורות מהם נלמד דין זה. הראשון נמצא בספר שמות, בפרשת משפטים: "וכי ינצו אנשים, ונגפו אשה הרה ויצאו ילדיה ולא יהיה אסון, ענש יענש ... ואם אסון יהיה ונתתה נפש תחת נפש" כלומר, אם האשה מתה, הרי אין המכה משלם לאב את דמי הולדות, מכיוון שהוא מחויב מיתה על אותו מעשה של הכאת האשה. אך אם האשה לא מתה, הרי שהוא מחויב לשלם. מקור שני, גם הוא בפרשת משפטים, נמצא בפרשת "...

3:04 PM

@msh210 Lah?

@SethJ Good point.

@shulem, I suggested three different ways to address the comment you don't like that would deal with it more directly, effectively, and appropriately than increasing the net score on the answer you posted to the question that comment's on. But, you seem fixated on the latter. Given that it's your post whose score you're trying to get increased and your history of bizarre fixation on downvotes, your ignoring my three suggestions looks like negi'a badavar.

^^^ Re: comments on meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/1631/2

Come off it. We are talking serious or at least I am. We are talking about pre marital sex

Charles Koppelman

@shulem Why is premarital sex more important to you than niddah?

Dont try to change the subject all the time. and start going on about rules. I already said when a fire is burning you dont stick to rules.

Charles Koppelman

3:11 PM

@shulem More importantly, why is premarital sex more important to you than loving your fellow?

... Also, if you really care about making the point in your answer, why not take all the time and energy you have put into pleading for votes for it and instead rewrite it into a beautifully written, persuasive, well-sourced answer?

4

@shulem You do stick to rules around here.

It is not my post anymore so dont say i am trying to increase my voting

you know its not true

@shulem Rules? I told you what you can do that would work better than the indirect narishkeit you're persuing.

I have no negia bedovor. and even if i had what has that to do with it.

either a thing is right or wrong

say i am wrong and finished and say it after 120 years as well

say pre marital sex is ok if you go to mikva go on

3:14 PM

@shulem She isn't.

for him she also goes to mikva

Her boyfriend is Jewish and he's the one who convinced her to go to the mikva

how do you know do you know who she is

Why don't you read her blog before slandering her?

she doesnt tell us on her blog

Charles Koppelman

3:24 PM

....I'm starting to miss Ali....

2

@CharlesKoppelman al tiftach...

5

Charles Koppelman

@msh210 heh

al tiftach etzba'ot?

@CharlesKoppelman Sorry?

Charles Koppelman

don't open your fingers?

.,...i'm typing, not speaking

@CharlesKoppelman Ah, heh, good point. (Sorry, I guess I'm slow.)

3:44 PM

@CharlesKoppelman You could invite him back :)

@Daniel no no no no no no

Al Ummat مجاهد

I must say, I am kind of laughing out loud. @DoubleAA :)

@AlUmmatمجاهد, welcome :-) Do you have an "Ali" chat feeler out?

Al Ummat مجاهد

@msh210 pardon?

@AlUmmatمجاهد haha He's saying it's a funny coincidence that you happened to appear the moment we mentioned Ali

and was wondering if you have some kind of tool that detected that conversation and alerted you

(it's a joke)

3:50 PM

What @Daniel said.

Al Ummat مجاهد

oh ok

as you have said, it is as it is, a joke

I do not have such a detector

if @Daniel had not come into the I.SE room, I would not have looked straight

at this room's transcript

@DoubleAA I actually didn't really mind Ali that much. I think that if he hadn't made his questions so leading, a lot of them would have been good questions

@Daniel A similar statement, m.m., can be said of other site users.

(Maybe I've just blocked it out of my head)

@msh210 true

@AlUmmatمجاهد Well, welcome

Al Ummat مجاهد

@Daniel thank you :)

4:03 PM

-1

Q: Censoring comments

I believe comments which help people to go against the Torah by providing links to websites which teach you how to do so should be censored. Such links are, form a Torah point of view, comparable to links to sites teaching you how to make bombs to blow up people.

discussion comments policy

@msh210, I think it's an interesting question that merits discussion both on the main site and on meta. Is allowing such comments a violation of "lifnei iver," and if so, what should our policy be?

@Daniel Well, as you see, the Meta half of that as been asked.

@Daniel I believe R' Student has discussed this issue. Unfortunately, I can't get into his blog from here. I recommend searching. I happen to have recently re-listened to our launch party, and the balancing act that is providing a forum for comments was discussed

... torahmusings.com/2012/05/the-social-media-challenge may contain relevant information/analysis/opinion. I don't recall.

@Daniel My comment wasn't about allowing such links specifically but, rather, whether the severoty of lifne iver is the same no matter the severity of the underlying sin.

@msh210 Both worthy questions for Mi Yodeya

4:14 PM

@IsaacMoses Yeah.

@DoubleAA It's a chakira in the nature of lifnei iver; one approach is that it is as if someone who violates lifnei iver violated the specific issur in question. A nafka minah would be if a person who leads someone else to violate Shabbos could be considered a mumar l'chol haTorah or just a mumar l'davar echad. — Fred Jan 11 at 3:16

2 hours later…

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

6:28 PM

@daniel I hope there is no hard feelings between us

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Of course not

I think those people over at Islam.SE had just never seen a real Jewish debate :)

3

Q: Have there ever been inter-faith debates between Jews and Muslims?

There are records of many inter-faith debates (disputations) between Jews and Christians even up to modern times. However I have never heard of similar such debates between Jews and Muslims. Are there records of such debates ever having taken place? Are there transcripts?

history gentiles islam

:)

Is there anybody here with a high rep on history.SE who can see the upvote/downvote breakdown on questions?

Oh never mind. They actually onlly have a handful of people with the 1000 rep necessary for that

7:11 PM

@Daniel It's 750 history.stackexchange.com/privileges/established-user

The numbers work differently in beta

@Daniel Not I, but what question is it?

@Daniel Incidentally, I believe this is our highest ranked agent there history.stackexchange.com/users/39/joe-shmoe

@DoubleAA I didn't know we had fifth columns.

7:28 PM

@msh210 You should get someone with a longer wingspan to do hagbaha in your shul some time.

> Being able to show 4 columns is nice but not required.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@Daniel :D

@IsaacMoses it wasnt jews debating muslims it was jews debating jews

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob just a little would-be humorous free-association

@msh210 File away for PTIJ 5774: this pun, along with conspiracy theories

2

1 hour later…

8:50 PM

1 hour later…

9:51 PM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPHU-nJq6Gw — Isaac Moses 21 secs ago

@IsaacMoses Wanna write those out?

:D

@HodofHod No, I want Ari Lesser to come and post his own lyrics as an answer. :)

Anybody know Ari Lesser?

10:34 PM

Any idea why he says the metzora gets sprinkled 7 times?

Jeremiah was clear the exile would last 70 years? Ya right...

11:13 PM

Which version of Tosefta is usually used for citations?

11:26 PM

@Argon between Lieberman and Tzukermandel?

@DoubleAA And all the rest: biu.ac.il/JS/tannaim/tosefta

@Argon Those are manuscripts.

@DoubleAA So it's only between Lieberman and Zukermandel?

What was done before them?

@Argon see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tosefta#Editions

@Argon Not sure.

Which one is commonly cited nowadays?

11:31 PM

Usually I've seen people specify if they know it matters, or else assume it's close enough that if you want to find it in the other editions you could with little extra searching.

Ok, thanks

I don't know what, say, an academish journal would request.

If I had to guess it'd be Lieberman but that's just a guess.

It seems for the Jerusalem Talmud, Venice is preferred

This caused me great confusion when text that was cited did not match up with the text on Mechon Mamre :)

@Argon This is what they say about their Tosefta: כוונתנו לערוך את התוספתא בקרוב לפי כתב יד וינה, בעזרת מהדורות ליברמן וצוקרמנדל.

Nice, thanks again

11:54 PM

Hm, is the Responsa Project site down for anyone else?

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V'dibarta Bam

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