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12:34 AM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MONICA CELLIO or should I say יום הלדת שמח!!!
@DoubleAA Do you have a calendar that you update whenever someone mentions their birthday??
@DoubleAA Time to get working on:
May 11 '12 at 16:58, by Monica Cellio
@HodofHod with 1000+ users, we can probably have a party every day if we want to. :-)
@DoubleAA aw, you remembered! Thank you!
@MonicaCellio Happy Birthday! To many more years of health, wealth, and happiness, physically and spiritually!
12:50 AM
@HodofHod said that on one's birthday our words of blessing carry some extra weight, so: may the Holy One blessed be He continue to bless all in the Mi Yodeya community. May we all merit many years of health, happiness, spiritual fulfillment, and growth in learning!
And on another note, I am delighted to see the edits to some of Shulem's answers this evening. Thank you to everybody who helped him out with comments!
@MonicaCellio From his "about":
> Seeing the voting patterns here I think I should give myself votes for each post depending on these things. How easy it was for me to find an answer, like just asking it on google. If I have provided any 'chiddush' in the answer not mentioned in the quote. Maybe other things will come to my mind later, on what to base these votes.
@HodofHod oh I hadn't seen that. I'm not sure what he means by "give myself votes".
@MonicaCellio Neither am I.
1:05 AM
@MonicaCellio Pin?
@HodofHod are you in the picture, or behind the camera? (Is it time to play "identify HodofHod"? :-) )
@MonicaCellio I meant you should pin your blessing :D
@MonicaCellio I am neither, btw. This is the early part of the evening. Stayed eating, singing, guitar playing, and flute playing/beatboxing until the wee hours of the morn'.
@HodofHod oh! Ok. I figure a picture from your Lag b'Omer birthday is worth attention too. :-)
@MonicaCellio Still trying to see if someone took one with me in it...
@HodofHod sounds like fun! Our local celebrations are very kid-oriented, so no late-night stuff here.
1:11 AM
@MonicaCellio Oh, this wasn't community-arranged. Very exclusive ;D
@HodofHod yeah, I figured yours was something different (how exclusive, on a public beach, I can't say :-) ).
@MonicaCellio Public State Park campgrounds in the mountains above the beach. They give you a pretty isolated spot if you bring a group.
Everybody should do it at least once. Was absolutely gorgeous!
@HodofHod sort of like reserving shelters in parks here, but without the nice view and beach. :-)
@HodofHod "Next year in Malibu"? :-)
@MonicaCellio Oh yeah!! (But I just meant camping/bonfire for Lag Baomer. Any old place will do. Malibu is just better'n most ;) )
@HodofHod we have rivers, sans beaches. Not the same. :-)
1:24 AM
@MonicaCellio Come on, even lakes have beaches. They're not the Pacific, but still! (Besides, you're about 12 hours closer to the ocean than where I call home (Not California, obviously)) :D
@HodofHod Yeah, New Jersey beach is probably 8-9 hours. Maybe Lake Erie has a beach; that's only 2.5 hours. This is certainly doable -- it just wasn't on Sunday afternoon this year. :-)
@MonicaCellio 6.5 hrs to Delaware's Assateague Park. Looks cool!
Course, not everyone can/wants to do a long roadtrip.
@HodofHod ooh, looks pretty -- didn't know about that one! (Poor little Delaware, always getting overlooked...) Also, DC and Baltimore are both about 4.5 hours; I don't know what beaches they have, but I have friends down there, which helps.
@MonicaCellio Yep, bet the Chesapeake has some really nice spots. (Especially if you camp on the east side.)
@HodofHod you've been?
1:37 AM
@MonicaCellio Nope. Just like watching the sun set over the water. (I prefer it to watching it rise.) :D
@HodofHod definitely! Sunrise is a little too late to still be up. :-) But sunsets over water are gorgeous.
1:56 AM
@MonicaCellio So are you having a party IRL?
@HodofHod no. I really ought to do a party someday...
@MonicaCellio You should! They're great! (For some. Some don't like 'em at all)
@HodofHod I'm kind of an introvert, but on the other hand, reasons to celebrate are good!
2:32 AM
@HodofHod I knew that was a state park before I even clicked on it.
@DoubleAA ?
@HodofHod Delaware is the only state without a national park
errm....google tells me that as of a month ago that's not true anymore news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/03/…
@DoubleAA Wow. Just - wow.
Kinda sad actually. Now Delaware has even less interesting about it. :)
2:44 AM
Just catching up on comments and...
A huge Yeyasher Kochacha to @Daniel!!
@DoubleAA and @Fred, I wonder if that Magen Avraham is traceable....
3:07 AM
@SethJ Same siman, s"k 2: "כדאיתא בברכות, אם שמע דין ונראה לו שהלכה כך מותר לאמרו בשם אדם גדול כי היכי דליקבלי מיניה [עירובין דף נ"א ופסחים דף קי"ב] ובסוף מסכת כלה איתא האומר דבר בשם חכם שלא גמרו ממנו גורם לשכינה שתסתלק וכ"ה בברכות דף כ"ז ע"ש בתר"י וצ"ע, כל שאינו אומר דבר בשם אומרו עובר בלאו [נדרים פ"ק"
@MonicaCellio Happy Birthday!
3:34 AM
@Fred Whoa. I just learned this. Like just now, a few minutes after that comment. (Slightly behind on Daf Yomi.)
רבה ורב יוסף הוו קא אזלי באורחא א"ל רבה לרב יוסף תהא שביתתנו תותי דיקלא דסביל אחוה ואמרי לה תותי דיקלא דפריק מריה מכרגא (ידע ליה מר) א"ל לא ידענא ליה אמר ליה סמוך עלי דתניא ר' יוסי אומר אם היו שנים אחד מכיר ואחד שאינו מכיר זה שאינו מכיר מוסר שביתתו למכיר זה שמכיר אומר תהא שביתתנו במקום פלוני ולא היא לא תנא ליה כר' יוסי אלא כי היכי דליקבל לה מיניה משום דר' יוסי נימוקו עמו:
I'm thinking we should have a final call/vote for 404/Error pages after which we can let Jin know a decision, and get those pages changed once and for all. Anyone interested?
@SethJ @MonicaCellio @msh210 @DoubleAA @IsaacMoses @Michoel @Anyone-Else?
(Sorry about the double ping, everyone.)
@Fred thank you!
@HodofHod thanks for the reminder!
@MonicaCellio Discuss it in the office?
3:50 AM
@HodofHod Thanks, I've gone through the proposals and voted for the ones I like (which were already the top ones anyhow).
@HodofHod not necessarily. Basically, we need to (1) check with Jin about logistics (like timeframe), and (2) decide how to proceed (new post? bump the existing one? something else?). No reason we can't do that openly. What are your thoughts? (I'm going to have to drop off, but please queue 'em up, all!)
@Michoel Keep in mind that the Captcha is already the Golem (I personally would have gone with King Shlomo's feet, but hey!)
@HodofHod Yeah I noticed that. I liked both ideas but the Golem one is already done and would probably be understood by a larger audience anyway
@MonicaCellio Bump old one, tag , call for more proposals/more hashing out of specifics. Voting could be conducted perhaps preferentially, a la meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1111/…
^^^ My opinion.
@HodofHod Why not just rely on the voting that has been done already on the current meta question?
3:55 AM
@HodofHod I was thinking along similar lines, so I'm glad for your suggestion! @msh210 @DoubleAA ^^^ starting here
Small annoyance with the Captcha answers sitting there. 3 options (as I see it) a) leave 'em (who cares?) b) delete 'em until after final voting, or c) start a new call.
@Michoel Preferential voting takes into account people's 2nd or 3rd (etc.,) choices, hopefully leading to a greater combined satisfaction average.
@HodofHod Aha, makes sense
4:16 AM
@MonicaCellio Congratulations! That is Bam's 30K message.
@DoubleAA YAY! What did she win? (Also, where's the flashing banner?)
posted on May 01, 2013

Today is thirty-six days, which is five weeks and one day of the Omer. Today's attribute: Chesed ShebeYesod

@DoubleAA For what?
@DoubleAA How do you know?
@Daniel Bottom right corner of the box demarcating this chat room. See it at chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/468/vdibarta-bam or chat.stackexchange.com
@DoubleAA Ah got it
4:24 AM
@DoubleAA Conspiracy!!!! Between this and snooping in the deleted comments, who know what other abuses are going on here?? ;D
@HodofHod :) Serious props for taking the time to leave me a deletion note!
@DoubleAA You think you can bribe me with flattery?? I would nev... Yeah I can't do this. :)
Ooh awesome! I got a comment with 6 upvotes. I think that doubles my previous record!
@Daniel Nope. You have at least 2 others with >4 upvotes
@DoubleAA Yeah I was just looking for that
@DoubleAA, Ooh I actually have a great comment on StackOverflow with 9 votes
Someone asked a question about pointer arithmetic
and asked for any pointers
8 hours later…
12:30 PM
@MonicaCellio, I've noticed lately that Caleb seems to always be here in an idle state. Is that so we can ping him (ie., is he here in a supervisory role), or is there a bug keeping him from leaving? Is he our assigned chat supermod?
12:54 PM
@DoubleAA cool! How did you determine that? (It doesn't seem to be encoded in the permalink.)
@DoubleAA oh I see. Cool.
@Daniel heh. Link?
@SethJ I'm not aware of anything official. I'm guessing that he came in once to chat about something, never officially left, and automatically logs into "all rooms" when he enters chat.
1 hour later…
2:20 PM
tee hee at the pun asking for "pointers" — Daniel Aug 18 '11 at 20:58
That's weird. I replied to @MonicaCellio, but and the chat message is linked to her chat message, but chat didn't seem to @-ping her
Also, that's weird that it converts links to comments into the comment itself
@Daniel I think when a reply consists of something that gets "oneboxed" (links -> messages, wikipedia pages, questions/answers, etc), the name drops out of the reply.
But the connection remains, as you saw.
3:17 PM
A: Which links and sites are handled specially in chat?

Juha SyrjäläThe current list of integrated (we call this onebox, or oneboxing, ala search engines) sites is: Stack Exchange sites: Questions / Answers / Users / Comments Stack Exchange Chat: Messages / Rooms / Bookmarked conversations Area 51 proposals Posts from the Stack Exchange blog, the Server Fault b...

Don't worry; it does ping the respondee. Just like the one-boxed link above pinged you.
You can also one box:
and more
@DoubleAA haha yeah I saw that you could do xkcd and thought that was funny
3:35 PM
@SethJ I'm not aware of such an arrangement. (And you can always ask him; he doesn't bite :) )
ALL Please provide input regarding this
3:50 PM
@DoubleAA How'd you know? (Just catching up on backread now.) But, yeah, happy birthday, @MonicaCellio! Many happy returns!
@msh210 Probably:
May 11 '12 at 13:15, by Monica Cellio
@ShmuelBrin well, my birthday isn't until 21 Iyar, but close enough. :-)
@HodofHod But how does one remember that from a year ago?
Pretty impressive
@msh210 thanks! Yeah, it came up last year. :-)
But happy birthday!
15 hours ago, by HodofHod
@DoubleAA Do you have a calendar that you update whenever someone mentions their birthday??
3:52 PM
@Daniel I think it was @HodofHod who remembered, probably due to proximity to his. (I remembered his before it came up, too.) And thanks!
@HodofHod We should make a calendar
@MonicaCellio I wish I could claim credit, but it was not me; it was @DoubleAA
May 11 '12 at 16:58, by Monica Cellio
@HodofHod with 1000+ users, we can probably have a party every day if we want to. :-)
@HodofHod oh oops, sorry @DoubleAA! That'll teach me to write without backreading first.
@DoubleAA I like @IsaacMoses idea
Also, for the captcha, we could have some kind of image of a golem
@Daniel Thanks! Me, too. @DoubleAA, I recommend turning the top two top-voted ideas (Vidui and yagata/matzata) over to Jin and having him see what he can do with them.
4:01 PM
@IsaacMoses Ooh that's so funny. I thought I was being original
First time I'm here :)
@Charlie Welcome :)
I hope you enjoy yourself here
@Daniel שלום it's a pleasure to be here
@IsaacMoses Note the different yaga'ta ideas: it's hard to tell which was upvoted.
@Charlie Welcome!
@msh210 Thank you!
4:15 PM
@IsaacMoses I think viduy is the only error-page idea. Did I miss any?
Can I make a question? I asked a friend and he didn't give a very accurate answer
@Charlie Of course! that's the whole purpose of this site
@Daniel excellent! Is it allowed to get married.on shabbat ?
@DoubleAA @msh210 @MonicaCellio How do I link to the ask a question page? [ask] takes people to the "how to ask a question" page
@Charlie Great question! The answer to that question is no
If you want sources, I recommend asking it on the main site
Q: Are marriages on yom tov recognized if all other halacha is observed?

user2325I attended a reform Jewish wedding on Shavuot and was wondering if the marriage is acknowledged and what the status of the children of that union are?

4:18 PM
People will give you a thorough answer
@Daniel Just link to it. I know no other way.
Q: Add a markdown shortcut to Ask a New Question

Double AAI notice often enough that I or someone else has to suggest asking a new question (especially to newer users) when discussion in comment threads gets too off topic. I request an addition to the markdown shortcuts such as [edit] and [faq] that would link to currentsite.stackexchange.com/questions...

@msh210 I tried that. [ask a question](judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/ask)
@Charlie note "yom tov" = holiday (like the first day of Passover for example)
@Daniel Add in http:// after the (
@Daniel you need the http
[ask a question](http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/ask)
4:19 PM
@DoubleAA @msh210 Oh.
I probably should have thought of that
@Charlie, did that link that @DoubleAA provided help you?
Q: Are marriages on Shabbat allowed?

Charlieit's my first question here, I saw a similar question, hooe I'm not being redundant. I wanted to know if they are allowed, and if not, where is it said, and why not. Thanks in advance! It is a pleasure!

Is it good?
@msh210 The precise phrasing can be worked out at the design level, even without any Jewish knowledge other than the quote provided.
4:27 PM
@Charlie Looks pretty good! We (it's a Stack Exchange thing, not just Mi Yodeya) usually try to minimize the stuff in the question that's meta to it (thanking people, identifying oneself, etc.). I've removed some of that stuff; probably the "Thanks in advance! It is a pleasure!" can also be removed.
You also may wish to include why you think there may be a problem. (Otherwise, one could just as well ask "are marriages on Tuesday not allowed?".)
@msh210 oh! Fascinating! Thanks for the advice.
(Marriages on Tuesday are allowed, incidentally. Most Tuesdays, anyway.)
@msh210 Not this Tuesday :)
@Daniel Depends....
@msh210 Fine. Not last Tuesday
4:29 PM
Tge answer gives " However he notes that if one did so, even on purpose, it works and the couple is fully married." So, you should nit, but if you do, it is okay?
@msh210 Do people hold that you can get married in the second half of the omer?
@Daniel Yes.
@Charlie Exactly
@Charlie If you did, the marriage is effective. That doesn't mean it wasn't wrong, in retrospect, to do it.
@IsaacMoses I suppose so.
4:32 PM
@Charlie See this
lechatchila, one should not have a wedding. After the fact, it is still considered to have been effective
@IsaacMoses I like the top-voted 404 idea. (Not sure which you mean by yagata/matzata.) I don't care for the vidui one but I'm out-voted so oh well.
@Charlie You should not build a house on Shabbat, but if you did, the house is still built, as defined by its physical cohesion. In the case of a marriage, whether it's "built" or not is a matter of Jewish law that isn't necessarily tied to a separate matter of Jewish law - whether it's permitted to enact it then.
@Charlie welcome!
@MonicaCellio That's the yaga'ta-matzasa one.
@MonicaCellio Sorry. I was using the central Aramaic words in the quotation as shorthand.
“אמר רבי יצחק: אם יאמר לך אדם ‘יגעתי ולא מצאתי’ – אל תאמן; ‘לא יגעתי ומצאתי’; אל תאמן; ‘יגעתי ומצאתי’ – תאמן”
4:35 PM
@IsaacMoses Hebrew.
(And for some reason I parsed that as {central Aramaic} -- a dialect. Something is wrong with me....)
@msh210 It's what the speak in Honduras
*The Jews in Honduras
@Daniel No, that's Central Americ.
@msh210 Oh; right. Huh. Didn't realize that was Tannaitic. Also didn't realize that "yaga'ta" is actually not the word used in it - it's "yaga'ti"
@Charlie yes, this is a difference between "up front" and "after the fact" (l'hatchila and b'dieved). There are many things in halacha where you shouldn't do X or should do Y, but if you did X or didn't do Y, we still let it stand rather than, e.g., invalidating a marriage.
@IsaacMoses Well, we'd want it in second person if we're using the first idea in that answer. I think. (In first person if using the 2nd idea.)
4:38 PM
@msh210 I'll claim that as a back-justification of my shorthand
@Daniel I was taught that weddings after lag b'omer are ok, but I don't have a source. (We ended up on the Sunday before Pesach rather than later, so we didn't have to go there.)
@MonicaCellio Ooh, now we know your anniversary, too! Wait, er...
@msh210 Well, within a few days
@IsaacMoses Yeah, somewhere in [8..12] Nisan.
@msh210 oh, ok. To be clear, I like it only with the second option, not the one that accuses the user of not toiling.
4:40 PM
@IsaacMoses but if it is not allowed,.it should not be done, no?
@MonicaCellio I could tell from your comment there. :-)
@MonicaCellio @msh210, Me, too, really. I also like Menachem's version
@IsaacMoses thanks. Since there was also an answer about searching for chametz that seemed like it could be "matzata", I was confused.
@IsaacMoses It's a clearer reference.
@Charlie Right. One should not get married on Shabbat
4:42 PM
@msh210 only if you have a year. :-)
@IsaacMoses yeah, that one too. :-)
@msh210 but it's not really a secret or anything. 11 Nisan.
Ok, so I've gotten a little lost in the transcripts: for 404 we're proposing the "did not toil" one, and for error... vidui?
@MonicaCellio Nice. It was in a year in which Shabbat Hagadol lined up with the original Shabbat Hagadol's date
@MonicaCellio AFAICT that's the only proposal on the table for the error page.
@IsaacMoses it did? Cool. I hadn't done the calendar math.
@Daniel thank you very much, it was very informative!
@MonicaCellio Yeah, we left Egypt on a Thursday. Everyone was saying TGIT.
4:45 PM
@MonicaCellio They could actually be combined for 404, if the tone of the 404 text is apologetic. A graphic of viddui could speak for itself in complementing that.
@Charlie we're being pretty talkative today; I hope you're finding your way through this ok! (If you click on the little left-arrow at the top left of a chat message, you can follow threads back.) Anyway, yeah, you shouldn't plan a wedding on Shabbat.
@IsaacMoses that's true.
@MonicaCellio ... and the generic error could still use the same graphic.
@IsaacMoses But the idea of viduy is wrongdoing and the idea of yaga'ti is that he ddn't do anything wrong.
@Charlie Thank you for your question! Please come back to visit Mi Yodeya again :)
@msh210 he didn't; the server did.
4:47 PM
@MonicaCellio :D I'm quite used to stack exchange chat!
@Charlie oh, ok! Sorry, should have checked your profile. :-)
@msh210 Fair enough.
@MonicaCellio 'he'=the anthropomorphic server
...which is both doing viduy and saying he toiled.
Now I'm confused. Which message is assigned to which problem?
Is viduy for 404 or for error?
@msh210 Should have used "yo"
4:49 PM
@DoubleAA I'll comeback more often, I have many questions, and not really sure where to look for answers
@Charlie Well hopefully we can help you here!
Do we have a Q&A about how to find oneself a rabbi?
@IsaacMoses I think so. I seem to remember it
But I seem to remember many questions that don't actually exist
I appreciate the politeness!!
@Charlie Yes it is nice here. Much better than what I like to call the "c++ shark tank" at SO and on some other stack exchange sites
4:52 PM
@Charlie Ahh, shut the^W^W^W Glad we could help! :-)
@IsaacMoses I'm not sure, actually. We have a question about why you should, but I don't remember a how-to question.
@MonicaCellio OK, well, anyway: @Charlie, I recommend that in addition to posting questions on Mi Yodeya for information, you also try to find a rabbi you can go to if you need personal, professional advice.
@Daniel I believe it's important to point this out, once I've seen in other places (stack exchange site) a very unpleasent behavior which I'm still trying to comprehend, and correct.
@IsaacMoses yes, yes, I'd like to point out the fact that I'm not jewish.
@Charlie Then consulting a rabbi for practical advice isn't as crucial. :-D
(I kid, but) consulting a rabbi is still helpful if your wedding question was a practical one (but for someone Jewish rather than for yourself).
@Daniel I've never spent any time in any of the SO chat rooms. Do they deride C++ users?
:D I wanted to ask,.is there hebrew language and usage? I'm learning it(by myself), it would be very helpfuls
5:02 PM
@Charlie There's a proposal for it that's gaining traction slowly
"Slowly" being the key word, there.
@IsaacMoses "I toiled hard to find the URL etc., but I did not find it!" (Followed by two buttons, "I believe you" and "I don't believe you". Clicking the "I believe you" button takes you to a video of Rick Astley) — HodofHod 6 mins ago
That's lame!
Moral of the story: Al Taamin
@HodofHod, hope you don't mind, but I edited meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1018/… to remove the version that points a finger at the user and added a couple of alternative phrasings from the comments
@IsaacMoses Hey, it was your proposal - do with it as you wish :D
(The whole idea, I don't remember whose finger-pointing, and I doubt it matters)
5:05 PM
> ... 404: Would you believe that I toiled, trying to find the URL you asked for, but did not succeed? Wait; don't answer that.
^ Not sure that needs the Talmud quotation also.
@HodofHod Did you try to find out whom to point the finger at for the finger-pointing?
@HodofHod finger-pointing = telling the surfer he hadn't toiled
@msh210 Good point. Maybe just the citation, or a link to the original text from "Wait ..."
@IsaacMoses yeah, a link sounds good
@msh210 I know. (The first clause was about the previous message, and should probably have been followed by a semicolon.)
@IsaacMoses Aww, and I was really looking forward to Rickrolling people....
5:08 PM
@Charlie Meanwhile, although Hebrew-language questions are off-topic on Mi Yodeya, you can try some here in chat if you want.
@HodofHod But what if someone gets a 404 during Sefira?
('meanwhile' = until the Hebrew site gets off the ground.)
@msh210 "Hebrew-language questions that are not also about Judaism"
@IsaacMoses Yes, sorry, shoulda specified. @Charlie
5:11 PM
@msh210 The tricky bit is that it's often difficult to come up with a canonical link to a particular Talmud quotation, out of context
@IsaacMoses You mean, as opposed to a link tot he whole page? I suspect there's a good Web page somewhere that explains this maxim, though.
... and, searching for one (Googled toil find believe) the first result is 1 Timothy 4:10.
Added megillah
@msh210 Probably. Takes some involved searching.
@IsaacMoses I'm toiling, I'm toiling, give me a chance.
dafnotes.blogspot.com/2007/02/… is okay, though I'm hopeful there's something better.
@HodofHod I'm very impressed. What's next - a Kosher for Passover version of that gag food that looks great but tastes horrible?
@msh210 You just tied your credibility to the ultimate success of your quest. Dangerous.
@msh210 oh! That would be wonderful!
5:16 PM
@IsaacMoses Well, I've found something (above), so I'm in the clear, I think.
I don't see anything better than the dafnotes blog entry.
I'm not sure SE would be willing to have its 404 page link to some arbitrary blog entry from its 404 page. Maybe it could link to a Meta post explaining the 404 page instead?
@msh210 Or maybe we could come up with a legit Mi Yodeya question that hilights that quotation?
@msh210 I don't know about the chat room. The regulars who follow the c++ tag are often quite rude
Give sarcastic answers
Especially to new users
5:35 PM
@Daniel I see.
@IsaacMoses Why is there divine help for memory? That also depends on effort (as we see from somewhere-or-other that says to sing mishnayos)!
@HodofHod The other one is better.
@msh210 But this one is more annoying (I think), and isn't that the whole point?
@HodofHod I suppose so.
@msh210 Better yet, host a page that starts playing both, offset from each other by .5 seconds!!!
@HodofHod Doubtless someone's posted something like that to YouTube already. I'm not going to toil and look for it, believe me.
6:06 PM
Levy, thanks for bringing your question here! As you can tell from the above comments, what, exactly, you're questioning about the other fellow's actions is not clear. Might I suggest you edit the question to clarify? Meanwhile, I'm closing the question as a temporary measure to make sure people don't post answers that don't address what you really mean to ask. — msh210 22 mins ago
^^ @msh210, I like this closure-comment formula you've been using, especially the last sentence.
@IsaacMoses Now if we can only change the big, bad "not a real question" text to some other wording....
@msh210 That's under active development by SE, right?
@IsaacMoses I know it was asked about on MSO, but I don't recall what the reply was.
@IsaacMoses ...and that, it seems, is the last we hear about closure in the podcasts. (According to their summaries, anyway.)
6:17 PM
@msh210 The last I recall hearing (at least as a topic for full discussion). If you ask in the mod room, someone from staff will probably let you know how much progress they've made since.
@IsaacMoses Mod room? The SE offices are in NYC, and I'm not. :-)
But hang on, I'm on the red phone.
@IsaacMoses They're working on it.
@msh210 Thanks.
6:34 PM
just saw this, and thought it might be of interest: news.discovery.com/animals/whales-dolphins/… -- a worm that uses acid to cut through bone. Kind of sounds like the Shamir worm
@Menachem Very cool. Just when you think you've seen all the kinds of ma'asei Hashem out there ...
6:59 PM
I hope this didn't coma across as too harsh:
Shulem, a few things. 1. I haven't voted. 2. Original work isn't frowned on, but it's not clear how this answers the question and that might explain the votes. 3. Mi Yodeya Chat is a good place to have conversations. 4. This site isn't a forum; it's more targetted. 5. The ongoing commentary on voting patterns is getting a little tiresome; can you please participate (you have good stuff to contribute!) without focusing on the behavior of other users and the self-declared merit of your answers? Let your work speak for itself; that you earned Mortarboard in your first week speaks volumes. — Monica Cellio 1 min ago
@MonicaCellio It seems like he just doesn't really understand the point of this site
And it also seems like English might not be his first language
Which could be a contributing factor to all of this
@Daniel I thought we'd made a breakthrough yesterday. He posted or edited several quality answers and seemed to be taking comments to heart. But I guess there are still aspects of the site that aren't clear to him. I do hope he'll join us in chat at some point; long comment threads aren't the best way to talk about these things.
@MonicaCellio No. Unfortunately, though, he seems to have declared a resolution not to accept constructive criticism.
7:15 PM
@MonicaCellio I actually think that a language barrier might be the biggest issue here. It seems like he doesn't really understand the questions that he is trying to answer, and then his answers themselves are very difficult to understand
@Daniel hmm, that's a good point. And if I (and perhaps others, but I'll pick on myself) have written comments that are hard for a non-native speaker to unpack, then that's not helping.
7:38 PM
@shulem, I'm not sure why you're having trouble getting into chat, but I just sent you an invitation to this room, so I hope you'll see this comment in a moment.
@MonicaCellio, He is probably seeing the chat transcript page, but doesn't see the button to enter the room. That actually confuses me almost every time, even though I know exactly what I'm looking for
@shulem, Welcome!
@shulem, are you able to converse here?
Here's a single, simple tip that I think could help your answers get much better reception right off the bat:
A BLUF is a paragraph detailing the conclusions and recommendations at the beginning of some text, in order to facilitate rapid decision making. This differs from an abstract or executive summary in that it doesn't necessary summarise the arguments or evidence included. Traditionally, conclusions and recommendations are included at the end of a text, following the arguments and considerations of facts. The concept is not exclusive to writing; it can also refer to conversations and interviews. B.L.U.F. is an abbreviation for "Bottom Line Up Front". The term is common in US military wr...
Am I in this room now
@shulem, yes welcome
I seem to be talking to myself
7:53 PM
@shulem hi, welcome!
how many do i have the pleasure of addressing
@shulem Hi!
@shulem It looks like there are 5 people in here right now
including you
at last speaking to humans and not machines
Anybody can come or go
7:54 PM
well then let us have it out
English is my first language
I have been to university
@shulem it looks like there are about five-seven people here right now. If you look on the right, under "V'dibarta Bam" and the text blurb, you'll see the user icons for the people who are here. (Grayed-out icons are people who are still here but have been quiet for a while.)
and published six books not on jewish subject
@shulem, My suggestion: See the WP article I linked write when you came in. If you start each answer with a paragraph that very directly addresses the question, then spend the rest of your answer backing up the assertion in your first paragraph, it will go a very long way toward getting your point across to the reader.
do my credentials satisfy you
@shulem We aren't concerned with credentials here
Which is why we require sources for all of the claims that we make
7:55 PM
@shulem not worried about credentials. We were just trying to figure out if we had inadvertantly placed a stumbling-block before you (with the language discussion, I mean).
sorry what claims
do you make
@shulem All claims. About anything. Any thing that we put in an answer should be sourced.
I can also type quickly as you must realise by now
@Daniel ... or at least, explicit reasoning that indicates what parts of it are based on sources, and which
Or at least made clear that it is our own thought
7:56 PM
I would think that i usually do that
I think that the biggest problem that people have is that your answers are very difficult to understand
Not just the content, but the English
My english is not that cryptic
Yes. Original thought is fine but help us out and show your work. If you just say "X is true", well, you're some random person on the internet -- perhaps a very-knowledgable one, but just like you wouldn't follow a ruling from RabbiPloni@gmail.com without asking for support for what he says...
It would be helpful if you would use proper punctuation, capitalization, and spacing
my university professors didnt seem to have problems
again i usually do provide this information
7:58 PM
@shulem You are not on trial.
ok will try to improve what dani has written
well thats a relief
@shulem please don't think that people here are criticizing. Mi Yodeya (like any other Stack Exchange site) has a broad user base -- different language skills, different levels of knowledge, different backgrounds... we're trying to be accessible to as many of them as possible.
@shulem I think that would be very helpful.
I understand this very well
Also, to reply to a particular comment, click on the little right arrow that appears when you hover your mouse over it
7:59 PM
but you have to realise that not everything can be explained to everyone
And this means that things that seem obvious to us might not be to others, and sometimes we don't realize that until someone comments about it. The goal is to collectively make the site better, not to pick on anybody.
That way, the messages are all chained together
@shulem Our guiding principle here is that we are resource to everyone who wants to learn more.
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