V'dibarta Bam

msh210

1:52 AM

Congratulations to @shimonbm, our most recent 3000-reputation user.

3

Shimon bM

3k 7 17

Monica Cellio

2:23 AM

@msh210 yay! Congrats Shimon!

Meta-Man

2:39 AM

1

Q: Mi Yodeya Haggadah Proposal

Last night some folks were talking in Bam about assembling a Mi Yodeya haggadah or haggadah supplement, drawing from questions and answers here. We are commanded to ask questions and learn at the seder, and we've got questions! Users of the haggadah/supplement could use whatever subset they wante...

discussion mi-yodeya-haggadah

Isaac Moses

@Meta-Man @Double ing down on the brainstom shower, I see. Here goes ...

Monica Cellio

3:12 AM

@Meta-Man please, everyone who was chatting about this last night, and everyone else, come share your ideas here.

Isaac Moses

3:27 AM

@MonicaCellio I would love to see answers from @Meta-Man in the Meta thread.

Double AA

@SethJ

If you are convinced of Thav, doesn't Thaleth (Dhaleth) follow directly from that? — Double AA 8 mins ago

(now deleted there as too chatty. hence...here.)

Seth J

3:59 AM

@DoubleAA I just can't get away, can I?

@DoubleAA I don't think so, first of all, and second of all, I think it gets confusing for readers. Third of all, yes, I'm actually more inclined to say Ehadh in Qeriath Shema' than I am to actually say the words "Qeriath Shema'".

@DoubleAA Personal shtick and internal inconsistency.

@MonicaCellio, so... I fancy myself a writer. What can I learn over on Writers.SE?

Isaac Moses

Yeyasher kochacha, @HodofHod, our newest RA, joining the august ranks of @msh210 and @DoubleAA

HodofHod

<sniff> I'd like to thank the Academy, and my mother, and ....

;)

Isaac Moses

4:15 AM

@HodofHod ♫ Od yishama be'arei Yehuda ... ♫

Seth J

@IsaacMoses Oh, man, that's a thankless job.

Isaac Moses

@SethJ Thank him! Thank him!

Seth J

@HodofHod Thank you, thank you!

Isaac Moses

@SethJ Not today.

@IsaacMoses I think you meant "them"!

@IsaacMoses Thank you, too, @msh210 and @DoubleAA!

Seth J

@IsaacMoses How do you reply to yourself?

Double AA

4:20 AM

@SethJ Use the message ID number from its permalink.

Isaac Moses

@SethJ (Note: It doesn't mean you're insane as long as you're not surprised by the replies.)

Double AA

@IsaacMoses Incidentally, I joined the ranks in February.

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA Sorry, "the august and february ranks of msh210 and DoubleAA"

2

Double AA

@IsaacMoses Just checked. msh210 also joined in February. I think that's when they invented the badge.

HodofHod

@DoubleAA Yep meta.stackoverflow.com/a/117903/168660

msh210

4:33 AM

@HodofHod I got a gold badge for that. :-)

HodofHod

@msh210 Wow. Just....

Wow.

:D

msh210

(No one has yet gotten that badge on MY.)

Double AA

@msh210 Remind me on Dec 31 to be ready to post the next answer on MSO.

msh210

@DoubleAA Exactly. :-)

Seth J

@IsaacMoses Alright, I just created my first tag wiki. Where's my badge? ;-p

msh210

4:36 AM

(No one has yet gotten almost any of out gold badges.)

@SethJ Have some thanks: thanks!

Isaac Moses

@SethJ Patience. The Badge Committee has to meet and consider your case amongst all the others.

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses <Ahem> Academy.

Double AA

@SethJ Frankly, I'm thinking of rejecting your suggested wiki.

I'm not sure there is a consensus on its usage.

Seth J

@DoubleAA I'm trying to force consensus.

@DoubleAA Your call. I tried.

@DoubleAA Why not accept it and improve it later?

It's a wiki, afterall.

Double AA

@SethJ How does it not follow? They're both dental fricatives, whose voiced and unvoiced variants would nicely follow the voiced and unvoiced dental plosives (d and t).

Seth J

4:48 AM

@DoubleAA They're different letters and have different reasons (in my mind, anyway) that convince (or don't) a person that they exist.

Double AA

@SethJ You surprise me :)

Seth J

@DoubleAA :)

Double AA

5:04 AM

@CharlesKoppelman Your Ghayin comment could help explain torahmusings.com/2013/01/did-miriam-sing-2

@SethJ Do you know what the shoresh ghayin-nun-hey means in Arabic?

@DoubleAA Google thinks it's meaningless.

Seth J

@DoubleAA I know of the ghayin. I'm unaware of any changes to Hebrew word meanings caused by it, though (as suggested in Charles' link).

@DoubleAA Oh, you asked about Arabic. No, I don't.

@DoubleAA What prompted you to ask?

Double AA

@SethJ I'm told that ghayin nun hey (or something like that) means something like singing, explaining ותען להם מרים, if you assume the two gutteral sounds merged.

Seth J

@DoubleAA Oh, I'm slow. Sorry, falling asleep here. No, I'm unaware of any such meaning in Hebrew. Can't say I know what it is in Arabic either, I'm afraid.

@DoubleAA What difference would it make?

@DoubleAA Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "Trup" change back to "Shirah" style for Miriam's response/song/whatever?

Double AA

@SethJ In Ashkenazi synagogues I've seen: yes.

Seth J

@DhoweedYaAgov, care to chime in here when you wake up? It would be interesting to know if Sepharadim have this Minhag as well.

@DoubleAA If we ask and find out that Sepharadim do this as well, would it not suggest to you that the Ba'alei HaMesorah have her singing?

Double AA

5:17 AM

@SethJ Google says sing in Arabic is ghayin.nun.alif-maksura.

@SethJ Many certainly do. See the blog post above.

Seth J

@DoubleAA I saw. Still not sure what difference it makes.

Double AA

@SethJ What difference what makes?

Seth J

@DoubleAA It's interesting that the word might not be respond but sing, but does it change anything?

Double AA

@SethJ No. Just help explain pshat. That's not a value in itself?

It's not muchrach, but worth noting.

Seth J

@DoubleAA But is it Pshat? It could be coincidence.

Double AA

5:22 AM

@SethJ It always could be. It really depends if you want to accept that there were two ayins running around that merged. If you do, then this seems quite reasonable. If you don't, this won't convince you.

DhoweedYaAgov

@sethj what are to referring to regarding Sephardim?

Seth J

@DoubleAA It would have been lost looong ago, and probably a relic already at the time of Matan Torah.

@DoubleAA Consider the fact that it stands out so strangely in that Pasuk - even more so than the idea that they responded.

Double AA

@SethJ Perhaps. Then at least you can concede the possible etymological point. Perhaps 'respond' was common usage for sing for historical reasons or custom or something.

@SethJ Who responded to whom? No one in the verse responds to Miriam.

Seth J

@DoubleAA Then consider the fact that in the very same Pasuk it says "Shiru".

Sorry, Miriam responded.

(I assumed Miriam and the other women.)

Double AA

@SethJ Shiru would have existed even before a merge. Synonyms are allowed.

DhoweedYaAgov

5:27 AM

What are we talking bout, I'm in bed with my phone :p I don't know how long I'm going to stay awake but my phone will be on most likely

Seth J

@DoubleAA Yeah, no I think we're misunderstanding each other...

Double AA

@SethJ You mean you read that Miriam responded to the women? That's possible, but we don't see they ever sing. It says they follow her out and she responds to them.

Seth J

@DhoweedYaAgov Do Sepharadim read Miriam's and the women's Shirah with special Ta'amei Miqra ("Az Yashir" style)?

@DoubleAA Ugh, <headdesk>. No no no. She (and the women) responded to the men. That was my initial understanding. Is that wrong?

DhoweedYaAgov

By the teimonim once we finish oz yosheer we read Miriam's verses together but with no tune

Double AA

@SethJ Well, ותען is singular.

@DhoweedYaAgov But there is special tune for oz yosheer?

Seth J

5:29 AM

@DoubleAA Yes, but it says she went out with the women.

DhoweedYaAgov

Then shaliahH sSibur takes over from there with yishtabach or nishmath gol hHai on shabboth

Seth J

@DhoweedYaAgov No, we mean in the leinin.

DhoweedYaAgov

Yes special tune for oz yosheer

Double AA

@DhoweedYaAgov Oh. We were asking about during qeriath hatoroh.

DhoweedYaAgov

Oh

The tune used for reg oz yosheer in the morning is used for leining

Seth J

5:31 AM

@DhoweedYaAgov What about Miriam's "response"?

Double AA

@SethJ So...it's somewhat ambiguous. (Who's the 'them'? Who is responding? To what are they responding? Who sang first?) But all that is answered if ותען is sing.

DhoweedYaAgov

I don't remember if Miriam's song was sung when leining most likely not

I mean why would a man sing a woman's song?

Seth J

@DoubleAA Not really answered. Read the rest of the pasuk.

DhoweedYaAgov

If there was a tune for leining, we would be singing it with the tune for leining for oz yosheer

Seth J

@DoubleAA "VaTa'a LaHem Miriam, Shiru..."

Double AA

5:33 AM

@SethJ So Miriam sings to the women. What's the problem?

Seth J

@DoubleAA LaHem is masculine.

@DoubleAA Groups can be singular in Hebrew, btw.

(:8384273) You can see she was with the women, engaging them in response to the men's song, and then "VaTa'an...Shiru". Either they sang in unison to the men, or she is responding to the men in front of the women, encouraging the men (or the entire nation) to keep singing.

@DoubleAA, I really need to head to bed. Tomorrow's another day.

DhoweedYaAgov

m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ta2mv5tM5E listen here

m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrHzyqChIrA&feature=related listen here for regular song not Leining.

@doubleaa so what's the question Seth is asking?

Ali

7:36 AM

Hi @msh210 how r u

-4

Q: Examples of Destruction of Idolatry in Tanach by Minority Believers in a Pagan Land

Idolatry is seems to me the greatest abomination for which the Bni Israel were even divorced by God, hence wanted to know whether the believing people of past took an action against it even if they were in minority. Hence , Are there examples, in Tanach or other traditional Jewish sources , of ...

avodah-zarah tzibur-community

I have added the relevant motivation yet the thread is still closed

msh210

@DoubleAA @SethJ Vataan can also be hif'il. (A priori, anyway: I haven't checked the m'far'shim.) At least I think it can. Not sure.

@Ali I'm well, thanks. I must be off. A good timezone to all and sundry.

Ali

@Caleb hii

TRiG

3:39 PM

@DoubleAA Now with an accepted answer.

8

Q: Why does the Septuagint contain non-Tanakh books?

The deuterocanonical books, treated as part of the Bible by the Orthodox and Catholic churches, are accepted because they appear in the Septuagint. However, they are excluded from the Jewish Bible, the Tanakh (and are therefore also excluded by most (all?) Protestant Christians). Given that the S...

tanakh septuagint canonicity

Monica Cellio

5:05 PM

@SethJ Writers.SE is for all kinds of writing. A lot of the current questions are about fiction, but I've seen an increase in questions about technical, academic, and scientific writing since I've been there. Questions about the writing itself (e.g. deciding what voice to write a story in), questions about tools (e.g. how to create e-books), questions about management (planning, collaboration, etc), questions about the publishing process, [cont]

specialized ones like my one about maintaining code samples and this one about indexing... we also get some questions about blogging and email, and soon there will be one about going from SE Q/A to PDF. :-)

Monica Cellio

5:21 PM

0

Q: How should we go from Stack Exchange Q/A to publishable PDF with the least hassle?

Over on another site we're talking about taking some of our content (on a particular theme) and re-packaging it as a printable PDF. (The primary use case is paper.) This wouldn't be a straight dump of the original posts; sometimes you want to edit some for a different audience, links don't work...

publishing formatting tools

msh210

@DoubleAA re "tiyuvta": I don't see how it's a tiyuvta. (Fwiw, I'm my wife's agent to do her hataras n'darim and m'chiras chametz for all future years. (That was done without asking a rabbi, though, and maybe we're wrong. And it's different from bitul of course.))

@MonicaCellio In writers.stackexchange.com/q/5139, are you asking how to make sure the quoted code matches the current actual code, or only how to make sure it matches something that the current actual code could be based on best current practices? (Not that I have an answer either way.)

Menachem

anyone know where I can see the "הגהות מיימונית" online? Is it printed in the vilna rambam?

Monica Cellio

@msh210 the former -- if we write documentation based on example version N and then it's changed so that N+1 no longer matches the doc (e.g. we totally changed how you should do that), how can we track that? (We actually ship the examples as runnable code, so mismatches between them and the doc are visible.)

msh210

5:37 PM

@Menachem It's in the standard Rambam. (Is that Vilna?)

@MonicaCellio Right, okay. I don't know anything about revision-control software, but would tracking the documentation using such software, in the same... project(?) as the code it's documenting, help? I figure then someone could check (still manual) each revision in the code and make sure it's echoed by a revision in the documentation.

Menachem

@msh210 Thanks, that's the one I meant when I said the vilna edition (I just assumed it was printed in vilna). this one says it was printed in Warsaw: hebrewbooks.org/39979

Monica Cellio

5:54 PM

@msh210 we're already using revision control and get alerts if a relevant file changed, but it's still (currently) a manaul process to look at the change, look at where that file is used in the doc, decide if the part excerpted in the doc changed, etc. I'm wondering if everybody does that manaully like that or if there are tricks -- clever diff engines, code annotation, anything like that.

Instead of (well, in addition to, 'cause I'm nosy) "this file changed" I'd like to get "a part of this file that you care about changed".

msh210

@MonicaCellio Maybe just use smaller files? Break things up, so you know more precisely what changed. (This is all coming from a total newbie so it may of course be ridiculous.)

Monica Cellio

@msh210 not ridiculous. We try. We don't always succeed. :-) Thanks for the suggestion!

msh210

7:13 PM

@IsaacMoses shall I fix the link? judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/26840/…

Isaac Moses

7:28 PM

@msh210 Yes; thanks

Double AA

7:55 PM

@IsaacMoses Fixed.

Stack Exchange

8:16 PM

Blog - Stack Exchange: Podcast #44 – This Should Have Been #43

Alex Miller on March 06, 2013

Welcome Back! Our guest today is the one and only Robert Scoble – blogger and video maker extraordinaire. He’s joined by the usual Stack Exchange crew for a packed hour of fun.

Robert is a geek who gets around and meets startups and tech innovators. He’s calling from Flipboard‘s headquarters in Palo Alto, CA. Joel wonders if Flipboard is just kind of an echo chamber, but it certainly is not! As with much of the internet, your experience with Flipboard depends on who and what you choose to Follow and Like on your social networks. …

Monica Cellio

9:07 PM

Hi all. It looks like people like the idea of the haggadah supplement. B"n I can attempt to put together a template for proposed contents tonight/tomorrow-ish. Could I have nominations here for a couple strong questions, ones that we would almost certainly want to include in this haggadah, to use as examples? At least one should be a question that has two or more strong (and different) answers, so we can test-drive the "question, answer, d'var acher..." approach.

(The goal of the template is to allow people to start proposing content as soon as possible, without just posting links that we'll only have to comb through and edit later anyway.)

The above might make more sense in the context of this:

2

A: Mi Yodeya Haggadah Proposal

For collecting and editing questions, I suggest a series of Meta questions, each of which solicits content for a particular section of the Hagada, with Magid broken up into sub-sections. They would each link back to a central post that catalogs them all and also provides a template and guidelines...

Isaac Moses

10:44 PM

@MonicaCellio This one looks pretty strong. :) Oh, and to show I'm not biased toward the requestor, how about this one?

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses thanks! (And :-) )

DhoweedYaAgov

@IsaacMoses did u check my repsonces with and such?

DhoweedYaAgov

11:47 PM

@DoubleAA Please come

Transcript for