V'dibarta Bam

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12:05 AM

@AdamMosheh That's not quite how the English language (or any natural human language) works. It doesn't come down from above, set out by lexicographers. It's a bottom-up process.

And changing it is a difficult process. Conscious efforts to revise a language are rarely successful.

That said, any word used in running English speech or text by a native English speaker which is expected to be understood by the majority of the audience is, almost by definition, an English word.

A more detailed explanation of how foreign words become naturalised into a language may be found on the EL&U or Linguistics sister-sites.

Dave

12:29 AM

Why would someone vote to close this as off-topic? judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/17075/…

Double AA

12:44 AM

@Dave Wasn't me. But from faq: Please respect that in the Jewish tradition certain questions, especially certain questions relating to sexuality, are discussed only in private. Such questions will be closed or deleted at the discretion of the moderators or community.

@HodofHod Wouldn't that be lifnei iveir?

HodofHod

12:55 AM

@DoubleAA Not necessarily. I suspect that the vast majority (though not all) of the concerns of the asifa, are not assur for non-Jews.

Also, try not to bring too much logic to the Purim Torah Table ;)

Isaac Moses

1:12 AM

soundcloud.com/stack-exchange/mi-yodeya-launch-party

15 hours later…

Double AA

4:18 PM

@IsaacMoses I still think discussion should be reopened on meta as there clearly is not sufficient consensus.

bchol beisi neeman

Stack Exchange

4:36 PM

-1

Q: Should this site have a posek or a beit din?

Would it be worthwhile to have a posek and/or beit din affiliated with this site to provide guidance on policy/hashkafa issues that may arise?

2 hours later…

jake

6:40 PM

OK. I know I was the one to suggest the name of this chat room, and I know the obvious way of transliterating "ודברת בם" is "V'dibarta Bam", but whenever I see the chat room title, in my head I pronounce "bam" such that it rhymes with "ham", which (again, in my head) becomes a dramatic explosion sequence.

V'dibarta...

msh210

May 23 at 15:41, by msh210

@IsaacMoses Emeril would approve.

jake

@msh210 Indeed.

msh210

@jake And I, for some reason, pronounce it in my hand with the stress on the 'bar' rather than on the 'ta' (even though when praying I put the stress on the 'ta').

jake

@msh210 I think that's quite common in Ashkenazic circles. In fact, it's quite natural in general being that probably the only reason the stress is not pushed back by nasog achor is because the taamim don't connect the two words.

msh210

@jake Is that the only reason? I wish I knew the rules of nasog achor -- I don't really -- but a lack of nasog achor is common among vav-hahipuch perfect 2d-person-masc-sing verbs I think: are they all because of the trop?

jake

6:56 PM

@msh210 How often do they occur before one-syllable or two-syllable-mil'eil words? I don't really remember all the rules either. One moment while I consult my handy dikduk reference... (I'm at home now.)

jake

7:12 PM

@msh210 Turns out there are more exceptions to nasog achor than I remember. My book here counts four: (1) The first (mil'ra) word ends with a "closed" syllable (נח נראה) with a long vowel (תנועה גדולה). (Our case of "ודברת" is considered an "open" syllable, though.) (2) If the taamim don't connect the two words (as I noted above). (3) If a dagesh or sh'va nach occurs before the last syllable of the word (as is the case here, where the reish has a sh'va nach).

(4) If the word is two syllables and pushing the stress back necessitates a nasog achor on the previous word. (We don't do "chain"- nasog achors.)

So our case is exception (2) and exception (3).

msh210

@jake ah, yes, thanks. 1 is something, 2 is 'mafsik', 3 is 'ase merachik', and 4 is... something else. Or maybe I got either or both of those wrong, too. (The mnemonic names for the rules.) Anyway, rule 3 would apply to other vav-hahipuch perfect 2d-person-masc-sing verbs.

jake

@msh210 Hmm... I never heard any mnemonic for these. True, though, that this would apply to other vav-hahipuch... words, but not all (e.g. ונתת).

msh210

@jake Right. (Another of the mnemonic names is 'd'chik' but I forget which rule it applies to; the 4th also ends in 'ik'. I should really sit down and learn these rules properly. Also the rules of dagesh kal, which I also don't really know.)

jake

@msh210 I recommend this book if you don't already have it. Great for review.

msh210

7:31 PM

@jake Thanks.

@jake Well, I should go. Have a good Shabas (and whoever else wanders in here).

jake

@msh210 good shabbos

bam

Double AA

7:45 PM

@jake How do you explain nasog achor on ve'aCHALta in devarim 14:26

jake

@DoubleAA Don't know. I do know that there are a lot of exceptions to this rule (and its "official" exceptions), but I don't know if this is one of them or if it fits into the rule somehow. Also the one near there in 16:2 (v'za**vach**ta pesach...)

@DoubleAA Don't happen to have a good online Minchas Shai, do you?

Double AA

@jake (speculation) Maybe since that structure is already nasog kadima because of the vav hahipuch, it more easily reverts back using nasog achor, so it can do so even though it's breaking the closed syallble rule.

@jake I found once on hebrewbooks. I don't have it available now. Maybe I'll try and check over Shabbat.

Adam Mosheh

8:57 PM

Levi Yitzchok of Berditchev

Levi Yitzchok of Berditchev (1740–1809), also known as the Berdichever, was a Hasidic leader. He was the rabbi of Ryczywół, Żelechów, Pinsk and Berdychiv, for which he is best known. He was one of the main disciples of the Maggid of Mezritch, and his disciple Rabbi Shmelke of Nikolsburg, whom he succeeded as rabbi of Ryczywół. Reb Levi Yitzchok was known as the "defense attorney" for the Jewish people, because it was believed that he could intercede on their behalf before God. Known for his compassion for every Jew, he was therefore one of the most beloved leaders of Eastern European Jew...

^^^ Why is this still a stub?

Dave

9:15 PM

@AdamMosheh I followed that link just to see if that's what the Bardichever really looked like. :) Turns out it's a self-portrait of the Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko.

@AdamMosheh As regards your question, I totally see why it's still a stub. But anyway there's no reason to discuss it here.

Shmuel Brin

another user got deleted :(

could a non-registered high reputation user vote?

Menachem

10:08 PM

was there once a question on this site about the possible connection between the 13 attributes of mercy and R' Yishmael's thirteen principles of talmudic exegesis? I thought there was, but I searched and couldn't find it

Double AA

10:37 PM

@ShmuelBrin I don't think so.

@Menachem Not that I remember.

Double AA

10:50 PM

@jake שבת שלום שַבֵּאם!!!

And Shabbat Shalom to everyone else too :)

jake

@DoubleAA ומבורך.

Double AA

11:12 PM

@Grammarians What's the shoresh/binyan/etc. of שובה from ישעיהו פרק ל פסוק טו?

Alex

11:35 PM

@DoubleAA: Rashi relates it to ישוב (being settled, shoresh ישב), Metzudas Tziyon to ישובב (as in נפשי - the root is שבב, I guess). The binyan is, maybe, like other abstract nouns such as שמחה.

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