V'dibarta Bam - 2012-05-16

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1:39 AM

Has anyone here travelled from the US to Israel via a third country? Looking for some newbie guidance about how customs works for that.

@AdamMosheh I don't know about "every," but for many halachic questions, the correct course of action depends on the particular situation, the person asking, and the communal context, all of which are available to the person's own Rabbi and are not available to someone on a website, no matter what their training and qulifications are

@AdamMosheh and many people follow different customs and poskim, and the person answering can make mistakes

would you follow advice from skeptics.se when it comes to your medical condition, or would you ask a doctor?

@ShmuelBrin חמירא סכנתא מאיסורא

1:59 AM

@MonicaCellio Europe is dangerous for Jews. Just saying.

@DoubleAA What? (Please translate.)

2:14 AM

@AdamMosheh I'd be going through Canada. Toronto seems safe from what I've seen.

@DoubleAA It doesn't mean that one should take a lax attitude to Halacha. It just means that many times concepts which apply in halacha may not apply to medical conditions (Botel Beshishim, for example).

@DoubleAA OK. Better example, would you take advice from a blogger who claims to be a lawyer (however knowledgeable he may sound)?

Especially that there are many people who can quote Tshuvos and still not be capable of paskining a shaila.

2:33 AM

@ShmuelBrin Certainly! I'm just saying it's not a logical kal vachomer.

@MonicaCellio You might want to try Travel

2

@IsaacMoses thanks. They're my next stop, but I figured I'd try my friends here and on G+ first (no hints there so far either). I'm wondering if going through Canada introduces another customs check into the chain or, if not, whether I do customs at home or there (so I can gauge the reasonableness of flight times).

@MonicaCellio I think you don't go through customs twice if you don't switch airports or stay overnight in Canada. But I haven't done such a thing since I was little, so am not at all sure.

@msh210 thanks. Same airline and I have no intention of leaving the airport secure zone.

2:49 AM

12 mins ago, by Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio You might want to try Travel

3:00 AM

@msh210 thanks, done.

In case anyone's wondering: travel.stackexchange.com/q/7140

@MonicaCellio "If it's just once, is it at the point of origin or in Canada?" Don't you mean "If it's just once, is it at my final destination or in Canada?"

3:29 AM

@ShmuelBrin What is the literal meaning for the word chamira?

Question for all: Do most of you who read answers to vote on them normally check out the sources quoted therein before would you give them positive ratings?

3:45 AM

@msh210 oops, good catch. Will fix, thanks.

4 hours later…

7:21 AM

FYI - area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/39766/israel

FYI - area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/36772/hebrew-language-usage

4 hours later…

11:12 AM

..as long as we're on the subject:

30

Yiddish Language & Usage

Proposed Q&A site for students, teachers, and linguists wanting to discuss the finer points of the Yiddish language, its proverbs and rich culture.

Currently in definition.

3 hours later…

2:12 PM

@AdamMosheh If the source is in English and linked I generally check it out. If it's in Hebrew and/or well-known (e.g. SA) and the answer has other up-votes and it's otherwise a good answer, I vote it up.

2:28 PM

@AdamMosheh I don't always.

Question for the crowd: Are links (in comments on questions) to lmgtfy inherently "rude or offensive" (one of the standard reasons for deleting a comment)? See e.g. lmgtfy.com/?q=foo -- seems rude/offensive to me. What do y'all think?

I think so.

Full disclosure: I posted one or two of these on the site when I first arrived. I did it on questions that (to me) were so mind-bogglingly easy to find that it was obvious (to me) that the person hadn't bothered to conduct a search. So I responded with "LMGTFY <link to google> :D" (not to lmgtfy.com). I was quickly and kindly informed (I think perhaps by Alex) that it was inappropriate and possible rude. I agreed, and changed it.

"Hi, my name is HodofHod, and I'm a reformed LMGTFY-er"

2

@msh210 Why?

2:47 PM

@HodofHod You mean, why am I asking? I've seen it some on the site.

3:15 PM

@HodofHod No Ladino or Romaniote or Judeo-Arabic proposal yet, I see. Nor Aramaic/Syriac.

3:34 PM

@msh210 According to google :)there are three LMGTFY links. One from me and two from doubleAA

@ShmuelBrin One of the latter has been deleted (not by me).

The first was deleted, the second and third questions IMHO are inherently googleable (especially considering that one question was asked by a knowledgeable individual, and the other showed some basic knowledge [that one can use to search in google]).

It's like "Does the word Kerach appear in the Chumash"?

@ShmuelBrin I agree pointing to Google is a fine comment. I think pointing to that Web site (which says "Let me Google that for you" and "Was that so hard?") is rude.

4

3:57 PM

@msh210 I considered it, but I think those are even more hopeless than the Yiddish one.

@msh210 Precisely

@HodofHod I'm not so sure about Aramaic/Syriac. It's a living language, after all. Plus, its ancient versions are of interest to Christians.

@msh210 Yiddish is alive too, just not in communities that are big on the 'nets.

2

Same with Aramaic. Where would the experts come from?

@MonicaCellio Even if you are have absolutely no idea what the Hebrew is saying? Our policy should be to vote based upon whether the answer is actually good (and not suspected to be good). Voting can impact users' reputation, which is a rough yardstick of how we as a community can measure their trustworthiness. Does anyone agree with me?

@HodofHod I am a student of Targumim, but that certainly doesn't mean I am an expert. Call me an enthusiast, if you will.

@AdamMosheh That's 1! Anyone else? ;)

going once...

@HodofHod Does such a proposal yet exist?

@msh210 Why not Jews as well?

@msh210 Teachers of mine have told me that they were able to keep up in conversations with Syrian Christians based on the Aramaic that they (my morim, not the notzrim) knew from Targum and Talmud.

4:08 PM

@AdamMosheh He's saying that in addition to Jews, those groups would be interested

@AdamMosheh I thought that was implied by my listing it alongside Ladino et al.

Does there yet exist a proposal for Biblical Studies in Ancient Languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin, etc.)?

(What HodofHod just said.)

@msh210 Understood.

@AdamMosheh I believe academics who study the NT text do so in in its original languages, yes.

4:10 PM

@msh210 No, I'm talking as a Stack Exchange website?

@AdamMosheh Oh, sorry. I don't think so, then. Thought Biblical Hermeneutics is close AFAICT.

@msh210 I'll check them out.

@AdamMosheh I kinda agree with you, yes. What I do is, if I already trust a user, I upvote an answer with listed sources that I can check, even if I haven't done so, on the theory that that user wouldn't be deceiving me on something I can check. I sometimes do the same for a user I don't already trust, but not usually.

3

@msh210 I tried, btw:

2

Q: Should questions on other Jewish languages be on topic?

Proposal: Hebrew Language & Usage There are arguments both for and against welcoming questions on other Jewish languages, such as Judaeo-Arabic, Talmudic and Biblical Aramaic, or Ladino (not Yiddish, it's got its own proposal). For: They are linguistically related, and share many words. E...

Everyone: Should we petition Jin for custom anonymous images?

Compare:

@msh210 Come to think of it, I believe Christian divinity-school/seminary students study the OT/NT in their original languages, too. @AdamMosheh

4:17 PM

1

Q: davening (coming in during shema)

where are supposed to start at when you come into shachrit during shema on a regular week day?

6

A: Do any security experts recommend bcrypt for password storage?

I think Gui's suggestion about PBKDF2 has merit, although I know Rook disagrees strongly. If only they were clear about their reasoning! Regardless, there's no reason to use a salted SHA-256 hash in comparison to HMAC-SHA256. HMAC has the advantage of blocking extension attacks.

@HodofHod What is that supposed to be? A lion? Why?

@HodofHod Ah. Thanks.

That is cool! Hold on...

@HodofHod I'm happy with our current one, tbh, but perhaps if someone proposes a really good one then I won't be. :-)

4:20 PM

@msh210 What looks distinctively Jewish in silhouette? A Yarmulke?

on the guy's head, obviously.

@HodofHod be hard to see, unless it's tasseled or something.

Or Bucharian.

@msh210 Slightly different shade of grey

Wait!! Horns!!

Shtreiml and payes!

2

@msh210 un a bord!

@HodofHod very sexist. Not all anons are male.

4:22 PM

@msh210 Ah, good point. Just the shtreimel and payes then.

(Females can grow payes and wear shtreimls. Beards? unlikely.) :-)

@msh210 Hey, you ain't never been to the soikus?

@HodofHod true.

Okay, seriously. Any real ideas?

The problem we face is that any Jewish symbolism (unless it's the site logo or something) presents the problem that some could object that not every anon is Jewish. This is a very site specific problem (although other religion SE sites would have the same one. Imagine Christianity having a tzelem for anon pictures).

3

A: Should questions on other Jewish languages be on topic?

As the starter of this proposal, what you're suggesting was not my initial thought. I wanted a site to help with (specifically) the Hebrew language, I think that a better option would be to open a proposal for Jewish languages as a whole, it would seem more appropriate.

4:29 PM

@HodofHod It doesn't have to be symbolism signifying the anon is Jewish. IT Security has a lion, as you pointed out

@msh210 But there's nothing in that that could possible bother/offend anyone. (Except perhaps lambs. And that only until Moshiach comes).

@msh210 Why are images of animals necessarily problematic?

@AdamMosheh I didn't say anything of the sort.

@HodofHod Because of Isaiah 11?

@AdamMosheh They're not. But a picture of a distinctly Jewish silhouette could conceivably bother non-Jews

4:30 PM

@AdamMosheh, see comments on judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/16427/…

@AdamMosheh If I was an anonymous lamb on Security.SE, I'd be very offended at being portrayed with a lion icon!

2

@HodofHod You kid, but I agree: no shtreiml avatars on judaism.se

@msh210 Fine, but what about turban avatars?

@HodofHod All time best quote in this chat room? Possibly! Am I biased? Definitely!

@AdamMosheh or black fedoras, or Bucharian kipos, or the kohen gadol's hat, or...

4:34 PM

@msh210 Agreed

(Pun intended.)

@msh210 What? I missed it.

6 mins ago, by HodofHod

@AdamMosheh If I was a an anonymous lamb on Security.SE, I'd be very offended at being portrayed with a lion icon!

5 mins ago, by msh210

@HodofHod You kid, but I agree: no shtreiml avatars on judaism.se

You kid!

@msh210 Aha, I wasn't sure which message you were referencing.

@HodofHod Any other interesting anon avatars that you've come across on the network?

(Or anyone.)

4:41 PM

@msh210 @HodofHod judaism.stackexchange.com/a/16426/759

@msh210 How about representation of the garments of the kohein gadol (high priest)? We can have him all "dressed up" (as if on the shape of a body) but no human body inside of the clothing. We are a mamlekhet kohanim and being gadol is an emulation of HKBH, so I think this would make a good avatar. Especially since God is incorporeal as well.

@msh210 Hey, I thought we agreed to keep lambs and kids separate? judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/14351/…

2

@DoubleAA In and out, huh?

How many stars (i.e. chat votes) are allowed per day?

@DoubleAA Thanks, gone.

@AdamMosheh I don't think there's a limit. They're not really votes, after all

4:43 PM

@msh210 Is it completely deleted, or only visible to mods and her?

@HodofHod It says I can't do any more, "You have fully used your vote allowance for today"

@AdamMosheh Visible to those with some rep (10,000?) and her, I believe.

Anyone up for a game of Spamalot?

@AdamMosheh Really? Wow!

looking

@HodofHod Maybe if you have more reputation, you can cast more chat votes? I'm not sure.

@AdamMosheh, the site is suggesting i move comments on judaism.stackexchange.com/q/16427 to chat, so let's discuss it here, yes?

@HodofHod Huh?

4:44 PM

-2

Q: Not washing netilat yadayim for pizza?

Also, are calzones different than a regular slice of pizza with regards to netilat yadayim, bracha rishona, and bracha acharona? (AFAICT neither calzones nor slices of pizza are exactly considered bread per se.)

blessing netilat-yadayim-washing bentching bread pat-habaah-bekisnin

@msh210 I can't talk now. Let's talk later.

@HodofHod I only know it as a musical. It's a game?

Guees who:

@AdamMosheh All right, b'li neder.

On the ancient practice (chumra) of Teveria vs Tzipori that valley folk should b
e accepted on us. This must do the placement, the 1st knot and the 1st chulia. I
'm not familiar with the procedures of Tikkun Chatzos, but the following may hel
p: We re strict to wash our talmudic texts] What the minor is still permitted si
nce it is spiritual aspect of the "stolen" matza), and a public domain
would not contain walls. (Although it is possible that one would plan) on undoi
ng it or leave it): The PY holds that while brachos were established prior to th

@msh210 just made it up

not the game, the name for the game

4:45 PM

"We re strict to wash our talmudic texts"

@HodofHod jake?

NO GOOGLING ALLOWED IN SPAMALOT. VIOLATERS WILL BE I don't know, ni'ed, perhaps?

@HodofHod I didn't.

@msh210 Nope, YDK. These are actually pretty hard. You'd have to know someones style very well

@msh210 I wasn't accusing, just announcing.

@HodofHod Transliteration scheme helps some. I considered Double AA,but rejected ito n the grounds of "kashrus": he's use "kashrut" I think.

@msh210 True. Alright, give me one

4:49 PM

@HodofHod What's the URL, please?

@msh210 quickmediasolutions.com/flack

2

Unless you object to the pinning

@HodofHod only because of the slippery slope. That is, I don't think it's appropriate, but won't object, but hope it doesn't become rampant

The problem with flack overstow, is that it can't handle Hebrew. Probably because it's made with Python. That one always gave me trouble with utf

@msh210 Aww, you've got to give me more to go on than that!

@msh210 Isaac, perhaps?

@HodofHod I was responding to your asking whether I object to the pinning!

@msh210 <hangs head in shame> I hear what I want to hear.

@msh210 Rampant? Chas V'Shalom!!

4:55 PM

@HodofHod Beracha is (as well as a safek to us what its beracha is considered a hefsek (interruption) in the tables Friday night in just their son to Rav Bakst's yeshiva, Rav Ephraim Greenblatt told me that it moved to Cleveland along with Rav Moshe Feinstein understands the Remah and not reach philosophically erroneous conclusions. In my experience and from what I have not seen this anywhere but certainly not least one of my sources for concerns of Lashon Hara. You are correct. The person in the mishnah that holds tzitzis to make Havdalah first so as to discuss. If you understand that it over 30 days (at least 90 times) and others hold it is an undisputed fact that Hazal only people named Esther must wear a quiet and soft tone. He must wash for it). To disagree with Rav Ruderman and half of the custom is to make an indentation.

hmmm...

uggh, I have no clue. "tzitzis" with a saf but "Hazal"?

@HodofHod I'll leave it in case anyone else wants to try.

I just leafed through a couple more stacks. They're funny, but it's not realistic for people to guess them. Apologies all around

A fairly easy one:
Hilel Shelit"a in his Sefer Amude Horaah 3:44 brings a source from the word "Karecha" - "Lashon Mikreh" a coincidence" we are erasing the memory is by erasing their philosophy. What shape? What color? How does it can Has WeShalom have a negative effect and may Has Weshalom lead to the Neshama to get tortured. He also says that when someone says Hashkava for someone after the picture where it brings all the house. Well, for one of the group aren't really so interested): trying to interest everyone with one topic on our own! Joshua taught, and he even adds "×•×“×œ× ×›&time…

@msh210 Hacham?

5:05 PM

@HodofHod Yes. :-)

@HodofHod Sorry not much time to chat today.

"Ben Ish Hai" is the giveaway. "Has Weshalom" sealed it.

@msh210 No fair to give this to Hod.

@DoubleAA No worries :)

@HodofHod Pashut!

5:06 PM

@DoubleAA why not?

@DoubleAA :-) Why, who is it?

Semen (whereas in fact there is only 101, which is shorter than average. Of course, this creates an interesting quote: While many halakhic responsa by the second Dibra in particular. On The Main Line about a nun ending seems morphological; also, we would likely only be two volumes (1 and 3), rather than all five. That it is not intended literally, then we can either agree with light â€” it is written here, I would add the following (which I develop at greater length here): The ketiv of the word is inappropriate as it stands and as holding a view similar to what I shall see in my dream. Such…

@msh210 Josh Waxman

I believe that we should promote mi.yodeya.com by using fliers similar to this one (dl.dropbox.com/u/37818223/english-pamphlet.pdf) that ESU.SE has created. Does anyone agree or disagree with me?

@DoubleAA Yep!

@AdamMosheh Where? Online? On (brick and mortar) bulletin boards?

(Er, cork and mortar.... or something.)

@msh210 Synagogues, JCCs, and other places where Jewish people seem to gather. Anywhere to generate publicity.

5:12 PM

Are no longer valid, one may dispose of everything in a respectful manner. If you wish to follow the offspring of Amalek, and is not assur. The Talmud in Masech
et Hullin 108b, Rashi DH "Aherim" and Ritva on that Rashi. He says that at least one of the criteria above is met, and therefore in the following cases: The meat was inaccessible by keeping one side of the original arabic on one side. There's also be capable of wearing it in a Sepharadic environment: I have ta'amim for several readers using systems they taught me. They all seem to me to be more-or-less universal in Sepharadic circle…

"In your situation, where the article of clothing no longer fits you, you may have been later relocated to Pumbedita"

2

20 hours ago, by Double AA

Here's a good one: If it was eaten beshogeg (accidentally) then one can read the megillah before the total amount of wall is greater than or equal to a kezayit.

10 reps to whoever gets this without googling:

_"You mentioned - an especially elegant watch and [for example] a remote control.
The latter would be a k'li shem'lachto l'heter - its normal usage of #7 in the T
orah is enough incentive built into the command, according to some). Hypothetica
l explanation for other purposes. A shalom zachor is that the birthday of signif
icance is permitted while moving it for the Ramba"m states that the require
ment is intended for a purpose other than the meaning of the words de(or re)cont
extualized. The verb ×’.× .×‘ is certainly seems to think

or in-site searching

@HodofHod I guess you!

just because

@HodofHod Alex

5:25 PM

any other bidders?

@ShmuelBrin @AdamMosheh ^^

going once. gone!

It was WAF. These things are just too hard, I'm telling you (at least they are for me)

@HodofHod metoo!!!1111oneone

Let's see how hard they are:

All-embracing expression.] I wrap it seven times, and issue unusually lenient (o
r strict) legal decisions because of the changing times, and issue unusually len
ient (or dissolve) regulations because of the changing times. But these are done
only to the mind of God, who were killed "al kiddush Hashem") 1 Only
used for people who are designed to avoid it; in a change in the name"], an
d that's how everyone practices already. However, in the summertime. Some are ve
ry careful about not crossing against the light on Shabbos, because they may cau

@DoubleAA the only part of that that I recognize is the "not sephardi tahor". Isn't that you?

Any other guesses?

@msh210 @Alex ?

Sorry to interrupt, but its time for...

Begin Parashat Hashavua' Chat #22 - Behar-Bechukosay 5772

5:32 PM

@HodofHod It's msh210! OK this game must be too hard if he couldn't even recognize himself.

Welcome, @ShmuelBrin, @Alex @HodofHod @DoubleAA @Fred

@msh210 It's only Bechukosay in Israel.

@DoubleAA I know.

@DoubleAA I did. Anyone: have anything to start us off with, re the parasha?

@DoubleAA but saying "Behar-Bechukosai/Bechukosai" would have been strange

@HodofHod Exactly.

5:34 PM

@msh210 Careful, we're agreeing too much today. Anymore of this and people will start thinking I'm your sockpuppet!

@HodofHod True.

@msh210 Exactly!

Okay, seriously, folks. Parasha?

Oh, I see what you did there....

;)

Sorry, gtg. I'm needed for a minyan.

Ok, how about this: Reasons for the seeming redundancy in (25:55): Ki Li V'nei Yisrael avadim, avadai heim... (end of Behar)

5:42 PM

he.wikisource.org/wiki/…

@Fred Thanks for saying something. :-)

@msh210 Yeah, I think I saw a tumbleweed.

@Fred Ohr Hachayim says something about it, although I'm not 100% sure I understand him: we are His avadim because our souls are sourced in Him, independently of His having taken us out of Egypt; and we are act as His avadim because we owe Him for having done so.

@Alex - Nice, thank you.

ateret4u.com/online/f_01610.html?dyn

@Alex Tough.

5:47 PM

@msh210 ?

@Alex The piece.

Ok, he says that being taken out of Egypt is a more recognizable/experiential reason to motivate us to commit ourselves to His service.

... But that we have that obligation regardless since HaShem created us and is the Source of our being.

@Fred Which sounds somewhat similar to how Kuzari explains why the Ten Commandments begin with Hashem introducing Himself as the One "who took you out of the land of Egypt" rather than "who created heaven and earth."

Yes, good point.

@MonicaCellio welcome to the parasha chat.

5:50 PM

I see here, in a footnote to one of the Lubavitcher Rebbe's maamarim, that he explains it somewhat differently: "avadim" represents our acceptance of Hashem as our master, "avadai heim" is Hashem imposing this on us. Which, I guess, might relate to the idea that doing mitzvos because of Hashem's commandment is greater than doing them on our own (גדול המצווה ועושה).

(If I may change the topic.) Onkelus translates even maskis (26:1) as "bowing stone". I saw recently that Hak'sav V'hakabala suggests that this is because he says it comes from the same root as "vachamas hamelech shachacha" and "vayashoku hamayim", going down, hence bowing. Oh, one's a shin and one's a sin? Whatever.

@msh210 Aren't there other cases where we interchange those for etymological purposes? Though I can't think of examples offhand.

@Alex Could be. I can't, either.

@Alex is there some d'rasha on sharim v'sharos (in Koheles) maybe?

We sometimes interchange sin and samech.

The root sin - chaf - lamed, for example.

@Fred Often. Some words are written different ways in different eras/areas, in fact, such as cheres.

@Fred Yeah, good one.

5:58 PM

@msh210 There is also the derashah on ושמתם - that Torah is like a סם of life.

@Alex yeah, good

Also, speaking of cheres, there's the drash on שנים אנשים מרגלים חרש that they pretended to be pottery merchants.

@Alex Oh, there's the drasha on sam derech that reads it as sham derech -- in BK I think somewhere.

@msh210 Good point.

@Alex How old is that explanation?

6:00 PM

@msh210 Might be in Yalkut - I'd have to look.

@Alex Don't bother; I was just wondering whether it's "real" (if you'll excuse me) or recent.

@msh210 - You mean the cheres one?

@Fred yes

@msh210 Found it. Ruth Rabbah 2:1. So it's legit.

@Alex Thanks.

6:02 PM

Anyway, though, all of these are derashos. I wonder whether indeed there are peshat explanations anywhere in which shin and sin can substitute for each other.

@Alex ...which is what's being claimed by Hak'sav V'hakabala here.

Or should I say:

@Alex Sure! Hak'sav V'hakabala here.

:-)

Looks like I have to take off early; see y'all next week, bez"h.

I was wondering about the very beginning of the (diaspora) portion -- it says God spoke to Moshe b'har Sinai here. Lots of times it tells us God spoke to Moshe; why is it called out as being on Har Sinai this time? Does that mean anything? (Does it happen in other places?)

@TRiG, welcome! We're amid our weekly parashat hashavua' chat.

@msh210 Which presumably means something.

Don't tell me. I'll look it up.

6:06 PM

@TRiG weekly torah talk; higher jargon density than usual, probably.

@MonicaCellio Is that possible?

@MonicaCellio Rashi explains.

@msh210 thanks. So his argument is that because sh'mita isn't covered in sefer D'varim, it gets called out here as "yes, this is from Sinai just like everything else"?

@MonicaCellio No.....

Erm.

@AdamMosheh Or more relevantly: מה ענין שמטה אצל הר סיני? — Double AA yesterday

6:12 PM

@MonicaCellio Because sh'mita isn't covered in D'varim, it gets called out here as "yes this is from Sinai, so so is everything else".

@DoubleAA what does ענין mean? (Sorry for my sub-par Hebrew.)

@TRiG der aibishter iz duch a kol yachol. So it is possible :D

@MonicaCellio "What relevance?", roughly.

@msh210 ah, now the repost of that comment makes sense. :-)

@MonicaCellio It's Rashi's opening question on Parshat Behar, and it's exactly your question.

6:14 PM

user image

@DoubleAA so I'm in good company, except he understands his answer and I don't. :-)

@MonicaCellio It is also a pretty well known Hebrew phrase used like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_tea_in_china

The Ramban explains that the generalities of the Sabbatical year were addressed previously, but the point here is that it's specific laws were also covered at Sinai...

... and this passage is followed by a reference to all the commandments

...which teaches that all of the commandments were likewise fully treated at Sinai.

@Fred ok, saying that all the commandments were given at Sinai certainly makes sense. I'm a little confused by the sh'mitta thing -- yeah, it's not in D'varim (according to Rashi; I didn't check & don't remember), but it would almost seem to make more sense to say that something that is in D'varim was b'har sinai. ?

@Fred I guess that must be his explanation of the midrash that Rashi quotes.

6:18 PM

Or maybe I'm over-thinking. :-)

@MonicaCellio If all its details are in D'varim, one might think they weren't at Sinai, no?

@msh210 right, which is why it would be especially important to call out that, say, Shabbat was from Sinai and not just in D'varim.

Or is the idea that D'varim, being the summary, is also the list of "take-aways", and this is to warn us that there are other things that were given at Sinai that we have to learn?

"take-aways"?

I don't think the agricultural themes show up in Devarim, but Shemitta itself is mentioned regarding its monetary aspects mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0515.htm

(Picturing Chinese food.)

6:22 PM

@msh210 the key points to remember.

@DoubleAA But those are not here.

And again by Hakhel mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0531.htm#10

@msh210 yeah, not like that, sorry. (And now I'm hungry. :-) )

@msh210 Right, so not all the details are here. Some are added in Devarim.

@DoubleAA Are those further details or a completely separate mitzva?

6:23 PM

"These are the commandments that God commanded Moshe to relate to the Children of Israel at Mount Sinai." (27:34) According to the Ramban, the juxtaposition to this section suggests that all these commandments were like the Sabbatical year - not just taught at Sinai, but comprehensively so. In the wilderness of Moav, by contrast, not everything was reviewed.

@msh210 A question you can ask about all sorts of very parallel mitzvot: two tefillins, white and blue on tzitzit, separating and giving teruma, vidui and biur maaser.

To what extent are two mitzvot related and to what extent are they independent?

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

@DoubleAA 25 covers aggriculture & release, Dv. 15 mentions yovel & talks about economics, Dv. 31 is mostly about gathering & reading the scroll. The last seems different though concurrent.

But yeah, "somewhere in the middle" covers a lot of these questions. :-)

@MonicaCellio @DoubleAA Anyway, hakhel isn't during sh'mita.

( chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9995/showrashi/true#v10 )

@msh210 oh, I didn't know that. I thought the text meant during the sh'mitta, not just after it ends.

End Parashat Hashavua' Chat #22 - Behar-Bechukosay 5772

but of course feel free to continue chatting!

6:37 PM

@AdamMosheh I didn't say that very well (I plead caffeine depletion at the time :-) ). The answer has to be at a certain quality threshold on its own to start; I don't up-vote pure-link answers. So there has to be a good explanation that tracks with what I've learned elsewhere. Then, if it seems to be well-supported and if others have already agreed, I will probably up-vote. But @msh210 called out an important point that I use too:

2 hours ago, by msh210

@AdamMosheh I kinda agree with you, yes. What I do is, if I already trust a user, I upvote an answer with listed sources that I can check, even if I haven't done so, on the theory that that user wouldn't be deceiving me on something I can check. I sometimes do the same for a user I don't already trust, but not usually.

People I know to be generally reliable get the benefit of the doubt; people I don't know get extra scrutiny.

7:32 PM

@msh210 We are in luck! From the BH.SE FAQ: If your question is about... interpretation of a specific Bible passage, hermeneutical approaches, translation of Biblical texts, historical context (with regards to a particular text), source criticism ... then this is the right place to ask

@AdamMosheh BH gets lots of translation questions. And yes, seminarians in at least some Christian denominations study biblical Hebrew (so says my friend the recently-ordained RC priest).

8:07 PM

@MonicaCellio Okay, thanks.

3 hours later…

11:00 PM

@HodofHod because you're here: Why did I have to approve ShmuelBrin's edit? judaism.stackexchange.com/suggested-edits/345 We both have over 10K

Also, can we change the subtext in this room to "General discussion for Mi Yodeya"?

@Anyone else ^^^

11:27 PM

@DoubleAA No idea.

@DoubleAA Why don't we do that when we decide on a name?

@HodofHod I don't see why one precludes the other.

@DoubleAA Oddly, you need 20K to edit a tag wiki but you need 5K to approve such an edit.

@msh210 So can I approve my own edit?

@msh210 I guess 2 pairs of eyes is better than 1.

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