V'dibarta Bam

HodofHod

4:19 AM

@msh210 you around?

msh210

3:47 PM

@HodofHod Now.

HodofHod

6:29 PM

@msh210 I was starting to write up a hierarchy for halacha and mitzva tags, where mitzva gets all the mitzvos, and halacha gets the halachic klalim, but I think that there might be too much overlap with other tags, for example: matzah. Does it go under pesach, or mitzva? Thoughts?

msh210

I see @MonicaCellio (or someone) put things like matza under the holidays. I think it can go in more than 1 place.

Perhaps tags in order of the 4 _turim_ (_Shulchan Aruch_)? Or in order of the 613 _mitzvos_? Or in order of the calendrical year (which roughly matches _Orach Chayim_ anyway)?

HodofHod

7:55 PM

@msh210 I think alphabetical might just be best. If you want to do the order of the 613, the question is whose order? Calendrical year wouldn't work too well, too many mitzvos which are not seasonal.

msh210

@HodofHod Well, re clanedrical I meant that things would be listed twice. Matza would be listed in the calendrical list under Pesach and also in the mitzva or Turim or whatever lits

HodofHod

Also, 'mitzva' is going to include negative ones as well

msh210

I think Monica (or whoever started it) is right to have started a clanedrical list: peopel will look there I suspect.

HodofHod

@msh210 Ahh, ok. Makes sense

But the 'mitzva' list is necessary for the non-seasonal ones

msh210

@HodofHod A problem with alphabetical (nevermind transliteration issues: suppose we use Hebrew-alphabetical) is that things are worded various ways. Where would one find basar b'chalav for example? Under "lo s'vashel g'di"? Under "basar"? Etc.

@HodofHod Right... or something is. You don't like the Shulchan-Aruch-order idea? (Note, a big thing against it is that many things aren't in SA.)

Maybe Mishna Torah-order?

2

HodofHod

8:03 PM

@msh210 Hm, if you want to go that route, why not just Rambam's order of the 613 (probably the same, idk).

Also, I am unfortunately not able to order them reliably, since I don't remember that order off the top of my head.

msh210

@HodofHod I'm sure it's online :-)

HodofHod

@msh210 I'm sure it is

:D

msh210

Many things won't fit in to any of these systems, I'm afraid.

Rov/chazaka/ things like that, when they have tags.

HodofHod

@msh210 btw, where did you get the list of tags from?

msh210

philosophical things.

HodofHod

8:11 PM

@msh210 That goes into halachic klalim

msh210

mussar/ethical/middos things

HodofHod

 - [tag:bitul-batel-null]
 - [tag:conditional-stipulation]
 - [tag:dina-dmalchusa-dina]
 - [tag:edim-witnesses]
 - [tag:estates-inheritance]
 - [tag:stringency-chumrah]

those all go in halacha >> halachic concepts >>

Double AA

@msh210 @HodofHod Although I realize many topics are not covered in Shulchan Aruch, it does allow for more specialization in the areas we need more of. For instance, we probably have about 8 tags total for all of Siferei Avoda, Korbanot, and Tahara, yet we must have 100+ in Sifrei Ahava and Kedusha.

msh210

@HodofHod api.stackexchange.com/2.0/… and subsequent pages

@HodofHod edim-witnesses in halachic concepts? Maybe. Estates-inheritence? I think not: that's a whole branch of law.

@DoubleAA good point

HodofHod

@msh210 Halachic concepts doesn't just include klalim, it's also general halachic inyanim. I can't think of a better place to put edim-witnesses, can you?

msh210

8:17 PM

@HodofHod maybe not...

Jin

8:33 PM

hi all

msh210

@Jin Hi

HodofHod

@Jin Hi!

Jin

hey guys. I just returned from our company meeting, had a great week

msh210

@Jin Good! Back at home?

Jin

@msh210 yes! but last week was fun. Since I work remotely from home, it was great to see other SE coworkers in person.

also did sooo much walking

msh210

8:43 PM

@Jin It was in NYC?

Jin

@msh210 yes, that's where Stack Exchange headquarter is located.

msh210

@Jin Yeah. Great city to walk around in. Especially in much of Manhattan.

Jin

I spent some times talking to our other designer Sean while I was in NYC about the Judaism site design

He's exploring some other design directions too. So for the site/logo design, we'll present the community 2 versions.

4

I'm toying with the idea of having "Mi Yodeya" in Hebrew letters instead, in the logo.

what do you think?

msh210

@Jin A surfeit of riches.

@Jin You were toying with the same idea, weren't you? (As leaves.)

Jin

@msh210 well, I was going to make the leaves in hebrew letters. But then I thought maybe if the logo type is set in Hebrew, wouldn't it be better? The letters will be more legible too.

msh210

8:52 PM

@Jin Ah. The URL mi.yodeya.com won't be as obvious then.

Plus, the target audience will largely know what "mi yodeya" means (so the Hebrew letteringis not necessary).

Jin

but first, let me make sure I'm using the correct Hebrew letters.

HodofHod

I think it's important that the name be in English. If you want to add hebrew letters in the leaves, you don't have to use mi yodeya

Double AA

@Jin Looks right to me.

HodofHod

@Jin perfect

Jin

I highlighted the letters I think that's in "Mi Yodeya"

@HodofHod right. I won't be doing both.

Double AA

8:54 PM

@Jin You highlighted correctly.

msh210

@Jin Yes. Specifically, in order, Unicode characters 05de 05d9 0020 05d9 05d5 05d3 05e2

Jin

@msh210 thanks!

msh210

@Jin Welcs.

HodofHod

@Jin Ok. I think that it doesn't matter so much what letters you put in the leaves.

my personal opinion

of course, it would be best if they spell something

Jin

So expect Sean and myself popping in here this week, asking for your input. we're concentrating on the design concepts for the site right now.

msh210

8:58 PM

@Jin Thanks again for seeking our input throughout

Jin

@HodofHod if I just put random Hebrew letters on the tree, would that come off as amateurish? I was going to use only the Hebrew letters contained in "Mi Yodeya" and hopefully at least one arrangement of them will spell out "Mi Yodeya."

HodofHod

@Jin Are you thinking about making every leaf a hebrew letter?

Jin

@HodofHod I'm unsure at this point. It'd need to have a nice balance of letters and organic leaves. I like the looks of alefsinwonderland.com/product/alphabet-tree

@HodofHod how strongly do you feel the name needs to be in English?

I saw when Mi.Yodeya was a SE1.0 site, the title was in English as well.

HodofHod

My personal feeling and concern is that if we do the name in hebrew, it will make it more intimidating to the beginner.

Others might disagree though, so don't necessarily take my word for it.
@msh210 @ShmuelBrin @DoubleAA @Vram, thoughts on the above?

Shmuel Brin

in other words, @هه

Jin

9:10 PM

@HodofHod I think it'd be more intimidating if most of the question titles on the homepage are all in Hebrew too. Then it'd give a "Hebrew" only vibe to the site. But as of now, they're mostly in English. So I don't think the intimidation factor is high.

but again, I know nothing :)

HodofHod

True.

@msh210 Is there a way to show all the tags on one page? it won't let me change the pagesize higher than 100, and I can't find anything in the docs.

msh210

@HodofHod There's not.

HodofHod

@msh210 i found the doc on it. thats too bad

msh210

@HodofHod That sounds reasonable. Plus:

23 mins ago, by msh210

@Jin Ah. The URL mi.yodeya.com won't be as obvious then.

@Jin I think that that has every letter once.

Double AA

@HodofHod I don't think it would be intimidating. In fact, I favor the use of Hebrew over English if I have to choose, to make it distinclty Jewish. If someone doesn't know the Hebrew it will just look like part of the design. (But take this with a grain of salt as I have been speaking Hebrew my whole life so I don't really know how they would react.)

Jin

9:26 PM

^ is that correct?

Double AA

@Jin Indeed it is. You're getting good at this :-)

msh210

@Jin Yes. Note though that that's

Rashi script

[[Image:RashiAlphabetVector.svg|200px|thumb|The complete Hebrew alphabet in Rashi script [right to left].]] Rashi script is a semi-cursive typeface for the Hebrew alphabet. It is named for the author of the most famous rabbinic commentary on the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) and the Talmud, Rashi, and is customarily used for printing his commentaries. The typeface (which was not used by Rashi himself) is based on 15th century Sephardic semi-cursive handwriting. This was taken as a model by early Hebrew typographers such as Abraham Garton, the Soncino family and Daniel Bomberg, a Christian printer i...

Jin

@msh210 right. I purposely chose Rashi Script for the typeface.

msh210

@Jin ok, just making sure you realize :-)

Jin

It was suggested by a friend of mine living in Israel. I think @IsaacMoses liked the idea, since Rashi Script is used in books of teaching?

which ties in with the purpose of our site.

msh210

9:32 PM

Right - sounds good.

jake

10:16 PM

@Jin, I haven't been following this whole discussion over the past week, but just in case someone didn't already mention it: If you do end up using Hebrew text for "mi yodeya", you can put a dot on top of the "vav" letter (the more-or-less vertical line that is the fourth letter from the right) and it will look normal, being the appropriate vowel symbol for that letter.

That might help you incorporate the name into the logo similar to the way you were using the "o" in "mi yodeya" in the previous design. (Coincidentally, it is actually the same vowel as the "o" in "mi yodeya".)

Jin

@jake great, thanks!

jake

@Jin, like that.

Jin

@jake that's not Rashi Script is it?

I mean, it doesn't have to be in Rashi script, but I do like the styling.

if I use the style you showed above, I prefer to have the other letters in the same style.

jake

@Jin No, but the dot concept is the same in Rashi script.

Jin

@jake I see. thanks!

HodofHod

11:34 PM

@jake I don't remember seeing a dot above a vav in rashi script, ever. It could be I just never noticed, though

Double AA

@HodofHod How often do you see Rashi Script vowelized?

GENERALLY SPEAKING Rashi Script is in more advanced text, and vowelization is in more beginner text.

HodofHod

@DoubleAA Never. Is it even done? (except in specialized prints where someone wants to clarify that rashi was using different vowelization)

@DoubleAA Have you seen a vav with a dot in regular rashi script?

Shmuel Brin

@HodofHod I have sometimes seen Sins and Shins

HodofHod

@ShmuelBrin Ok, I don't think I have, but that certainly makes more sense than a vav.

Double AA

@HodofHod I have in something like this: books.google.com/books/about/…

HodofHod

11:37 PM

to me

@DoubleAA like i said

2 mins ago, by HodofHod

@DoubleAA Never. Is it even done? (except in specialized prints where someone wants to clarify that rashi was using different vowelization)

there should be an "or" in there

Shmuel Brin

@HodofHod IIRC, it was in the dikduk Rashis.

HodofHod

ahh

Double AA

@HodofHod Oh I thought you were referring to when they put dots on specific words that might be unclear.

HodofHod

@DoubleAA I specified that, but I meant others too. I was unclear, my fault :(

Double AA

@DoubleAA Because in that case it exists very early on. See mesoret hashas #7 here: hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=4&daf=21b&format=pdf

@HodofHod no worries :)

HodofHod

11:41 PM

IAE, I think the vowel on the vav might be weird, but I'm probably being too picky. Sorry :D

Shmuel Brin

@HodofHod A bit off the subject, but do you think an interview with you can be done to see if collive/crownheights.info will cover this website (a lubavitcher mod...)?

I don't write well, so I don't think that I'll be able to do it though :(

HodofHod

@ShmuelBrin But hardly a lubavitcher site

Shmuel Brin

@HodofHod They write enough about things that would make a normal lubavitch cringe so hard

HodofHod

I actually thought about having one of them cover it (I know people involved with both), but quite frankly, I'm not sure its the best idea

@ShmuelBrin those sites? yeah I think so.

:(

Shmuel Brin

@HodofHod op-eds vda"l

HodofHod

11:46 PM

@ShmuelBrin comments v'd"l

sigh

@ShmuelBrin Anyway, I wonder if they would even do an interview with a pseudonymous person?

Shmuel Brin

@HodofHod That's why I thought of using them. We do have Torah content, and we do have Lubavitchers here (as our top user, for example), there is no official (or unofficial) Lubavitch site doing something like this, we do have Lubavitch oriented questions, and people here can do Hafotzos hamayanos.

There are many questions here people have but don't have too many people knowledgable in, say, Tanach to be able to answer them well.

HodofHod

@ShmuelBrin I agree that our site is great, and in an ideal world this would be a great way to get the word out, but I have my doubts

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