V'dibarta Bam

12:25 AM

@Shokhet @YeZ (I'm not caught up in this room yet, but just to address that question....) Not visibly to us. I'd assume someone has access to that info. But I wouldn't want to bother anyone for it without a really good reason.

Daniel

1:39 AM

@Shokhet Definitely unclear. I already voted to close

Shokhet

2:16 AM

@Daniel I see. the question has been closed already. I was just wondering what (if anything) people thought of the "p'sak seeking" vibes I was getting from that question; if the question would be clear, would you have voted as "request for psak"?

It feels like a request for psak b/c it's oddly specific....

YeZ

3:30 AM

@msh210 And you don't think seeing how attached the Community User is to his rotating pizza oven is really really important?

@Shokhet the OP himself noted that it was a very impractical, hypothetical scenario.

Monica Cellio

3:41 AM

@YeZ @Shokhet are any of the 0-score answers worthy of an upvote? I've stayed out of it because I don't know enough to evaluate their claims. The question itself seems reasonable to me (i.e. I see no reason it should be closed). Or has anything useful hit Google since the question was asked?

YeZ

3:52 AM

@MonicaCellio I feel a serious lack of understanding of what exactly this pizza oven is, and not enough desire to find out, to evaluate the answers. So I'll just have to keep seeing it pop up every now and then.

msh210

8:12 AM

In fact, I'm tempted to close this as unclear, not because it's worded unclearly -- it's clearly asking whether this is permitted for the gentile woman -- but because I find it hard to believe that your clear wording reflects your intent, so your intent is unclear. — msh210 ♦ 45 secs ago

Shokhet

2:45 PM

I happened to find an answer to your question when I was learning something else, but I can't post it here until I know what you meant to ask -- do you want to know if a court of law will punish this, or what God thinks about it? — Shokhet 23 secs ago

.....annoyed at this question :( ....found something in מסילת ישרים that has to do with what God thinks about it, but I can't answer the question -- it's still unclear.

Meta-Man

0

Q: Do I need to dejargonify highly technical questions?

I try very hard, when I post on MY, to dejargonify as much as I can, so that what I write is accessible to as many people as possible. I've even been doing it (by now, mostly out of habit) whenever I ask a highly technical (sometimes even "yeshivish" :P) question. I'm just wondering if that's ne...

discussion

Monica Cellio

3:35 PM

I don't know who this is or what allegations are involved (haven't followed the link), but I'm uncomfortable with the question because on its surface it seems to me to skirt pretty close to the lashon hara line. Is there a way to ask this in a way that doesn't point first and foremost to whatever controversy this man is involved in? — Monica Cellio ♦ 2 mins ago

@IsaacMoses thanks for your response there ^^^. Yes, there could well be a real Judaism question here, one that we shouldn't be afraid to ask -- reliability of a posek, kashrut authority, or anything else on which we depend is important. But I think there's some work to do yet before the question fits.

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio Yup. We also need to take care to keep answers from becoming debating-ground about off-topic or opinion-based issues.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses yes. Mi Yodeya is not the place to replay the discussion of whatever controversial thing happened.

Isaac Moses

... and before anyone goes there, this is NOT about "sweeping things under the rug," "ignoring important issues," "protecting the guilty," "not supporting victims," etc. It's just about making sure that we stick to what we're set up for.

Monica Cellio

Yes. Mi Yodeya neither condones nor condemns any particular behavior of any particular individual; it's not part of our charter.

That said, dealing with the consequences of things that disrupt the community can have important questions, and we're not vetoing those categorically.

The OP just made an edit that addresses my concern. I've removed my downvote.

Wait, there was a ninja edit -- what I commented on ^^^ isn't in the edit history. Hmm. The current form isn't in lashon hara territory but it's also pretty vague. I'm just going to be quiet for a while until edits settle down.

This is a good example of why putting questions on hold so they can be fixed is valuable. Imagine what would be happening if the question were open for answers with these changes in flight!

Isaac Moses

4:01 PM

@MonicaCellio Also of the impermanence of comments. BTW, there are some obsolete ones from various users still there.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses yeah, I figured I'd go through comments when the velocity of edits dies down a bit (just in case anything gets rolled back). But eh, I can always undelete if needed, so thanks -- off to clean up now.

Oh, most of them were already removed -- all comments purged now.

@MonicaCellio I just got a hat for that. I guess it's Dec 31 somewhere. :-)

Isaac Moses

4:18 PM

@MonicaCellio Thanks!

@MonicaCellio I am the instrument of my own undoing.

2

Monica Cellio

4:35 PM

@IsaacMoses there. Fixed. :-)

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio :) Oh, the irony.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses indeed. That's why it had to be me.

Scimonster

5:22 PM

@IsaacMoses Whoa there, you took my lead!

@Shokhet Turns out there is an iOS version. It's great!

Shokhet

6:14 PM

@Scimonster Cool!

There are close votes on this question as "too broad;" I don't see why. The only problem I could consider with this question is that it may be "primarily opinion based," but I think it's fine even in that regard. — Shokhet 1 min ago

Shokhet

6:44 PM

,000,000 approve this message.

.....I'm going for hats, you see < hint, hint >

YeZ

7:14 PM

@Shokhet You're lucky I can't downvote chat comments.

2

Shokhet

:P

YeZ

@YeZ is proud of his pun:

anyone who wants to improve the title or tags, הרי זה משובח — YeZ 1 min ago

Monica Cellio

8

Q: Teshuva and non-Jews?

The Rambam explains the basic requirements of doing teshuva and seeking forgiveness from another person: acknowledging the transgression, making amends, and seeking forgiveness (presumably publicly per Yoma 87). If a person wrongs us and does these things, we're to forgive him. (He also has to ...

gentiles yom-kippur repentance-teshuvah forgiving-mechilah

^^^ Anybody? Bounty expires in 22 hours (plus grace period), with no candidates so far.

Scimonster

@YeZ Or any comments...

YeZ

@Scimonster Well, right now he's specifically lucky about chat comments.

I'm lucky about any comments.

Scimonster

7:31 PM

@Shokhet ,000,000,000,000 I think my popularity beats yours.

YeZ

@MonicaCellio Does your question include wanting to know if they can do Teshuva, or assumes that they can and wants to know what it entails?

Isaac Moses

@Scimonster You know what they say about yichus...

Scimonster

Anyone know what kind of mailbox this is talking about? Like, one on your property, or a POB?

8

Q: Mail Delivery on Shabbos

Can you take in the mail on Shabbos?

halacha shabbat mail

Isaac Moses

@Scimonster I would take "take in" in the sense of "bring inside from the mailbox outside the house"

Scimonster

@IsaacMoses But it doesn't make a difference if it's your mailbox that's right in front of your house, or a box that's at the post office?

Monica Cellio

7:40 PM

@YeZ what, if anything, do we require them to do? If they can/must/must not do teshuva as a Jew does, that's a useful answer if supported. If they don't do teshuva as we do but there's something they should do in its place, I'd like to know that too.

@Scimonster I understand "take in" to mean "bring into your house from elsewhere on your property", not "go down the street to the post office and collect it from your box". The OP is no longer around, so we won't get clarification from him.

Isaac Moses

@Scimonster It sure could. But I wouldn't use the phrase "take in" for the latter; I'd use "bring home" or "get." The "in" in "take in" implies that the move is from out to in.

@MonicaCellio noahideworldcenter.org/wp_en/?p=153

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses thanks!

Scimonster

@MonicaCellio According to my mother (SINAL), legally, there isn't any difference. It's owned by USPS (at least, there) in either case.

Monica Cellio

"The question was debated in Beit Elohim of Rabbi Moshe of Trani at the 16th Century." -- anybody know what that might refer to? I assume that's this rabbi, but where would the relevant work be found? Wikipedia's link is dead.

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio This is interesting:

Monica Cellio

7:47 PM

@Scimonster I wasn't talking about ownership, just distance and crossing domains.

Isaac Moses

> ... even the people of Nineveh, gentiles, are commanded to repent and pray that G–d fulfill their needs. However, for them this is not an independent Mitzvah, for they are only duty-bound to follow the seven Noahide laws. Rather, this is a subsection of the Mitzvah to reject idol worship and believe in G–d.

I believe the author is R' MM Schneerson

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses interesting, yes -- thanks! I wonder if this means that the expectation on gentiles is scoped only to transgressions against God (idolatry), or if it also includes transgressions against people (the starting point for my question).

Isaac Moses

... I think that to answer your question, @MonicaCellio, would require a deep dive into the nature of the requirement, in Jewish teshuva, to attain forgiveness from wronged parties, coupled with a deep dive into the nature of the interpersonal-commandments that are among the Seven Noahide Laws

@MonicaCellio Well, some of the Noahide Laws are interpersonal

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses true, and courts of justice can cover a lot.

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio also theft

also murder, if it includes sub-categories like humiliation

Monica Cellio

7:53 PM

@IsaacMoses hmm, yeah. I didn't realize it was such a big question when I asked it. I just figured there was an answer out there (that is, in existence) that I just didn't know yet -- like many other things I've asked about.

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio I think that application of Halacha to the behavior of non-Jews has been attacked much less in both the theoretical and practical literature than application to the behavior of Jews

Scimonster

@MonicaCellio Assuming no techum issues and a proper eiruv, that shouldn't matter.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses true. I was thinking that it might be covered because it also affects us granting forgiveness (or not); it's not just about things between them and God, which we might not care as much about.

Isaac Moses

... it's quite possible that this question has indeed been covered in the literature, but not necessarily in classic, well-known sources and with redundancy, like most questions about Jewish teshuva probably have been.

@Scimonster So, why'd you ask?

Scimonster

@MonicaCellio Almost 20k but never registered...

@IsaacMoses Just trying to determine exactly what it is.

Isaac Moses

7:59 PM

@Scimonster It is what it seems it is.

msh210

8:36 PM

@MonicaCellio Which?

Scimonster

94

Q: Make voting activity on your posts available on site metas (what you would get from rep if metas had rep)

Child metas don't have rep, so there's no point in tracking a rep stat or reporting changes. But one of the things rep updates do on main sites is to alert me when there's activity on older posts. On metas, unless I revisit a question I'll never notice that there's been a bunch of voting (which...

feature-request voting notifications per-site-meta achievements-dialog

msh210

@Scimonster "SINAL"?

Scimonster

@msh210 She Is Not A Lawer

msh210

@Scimonster Ah.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 Ah.

Isaac Moses

10:08 PM

Guess what tag with at least 50 questions has the highest average score across those questions.

Shokhet

@user6641, the average, minimum, and maximum scores of christianity questions are pretty similar to those of other tags. — Isaac Moses 3 mins ago

Isaac Moses

Source: data.stackexchange.com/judaism/query/261773/score-stats-for-tag

Shokhet

?

Isaac Moses

@Shokhet OP was complaining about Christianity questions getting downvoted.

Shokhet

@IsaacMoses I didn't see that, but I saw you made a comment about score tags, and then saw your comment here.

@IsaacMoses A lot of them are (I think), when they're based on nothing/almost nothing, and would be better posted on C.SE

Isaac Moses

10:12 PM

@Shokhet Well, yeah. I'm not going to whip up a nice little query like that just to make a point and then not use it for other stuff.

@Shokhet A lot of questions in other tags are, too.

Shokhet

@IsaacMoses That's correct. Voting works ;-)

Isaac Moses

@Shokhet, care to play my guessing game?

Shokhet

@IsaacMoses But I guess the feeling comes from the fact that those questions are often poorly based.

@IsaacMoses I'll give it a try, sure.

Isaac Moses

@Shokhet Well, yes, there are pitfalls particular to questions about other religions, especially that one.

7 mins ago, by Isaac Moses

Guess what tag with at least 50 questions has the highest average score across those questions.

Shokhet

Probably halacha?

Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/30440/5323 (possible duplicate?) — Shokhet 6 secs ago

@user6641, I do disagree. Here are our 50 questions that include the name Jesus. 70% of them have net positive scores, and 80% of them have non-negative scores. More of them have net scores of greater than 5 than have net scores of less than 0. It would probably be more worthwhile to concentrate on determining/improving the fit of the question at hand. — Isaac Moses 2 mins ago

Isaac Moses

10:21 PM

@Shokhet how-to, with 92 questions and an average score of 8!

Shokhet

@IsaacMoses Cool!

Isaac Moses

...or maybe that's because you cherry-picked good old how-to questions to back-tag into it :^)

Shokhet

:P

Isaac Moses

halacha has 3918 questions, and an average score of 4 (which, FTR, is less than christianity's average - 5)

Shokhet

@IsaacMoses Tell that to your friend on the new Jesus question; that might tell him (her?) something

Isaac Moses

10:24 PM

@Shokhet odd

6641 isn't male or female. It's odd.

3

Shokhet

@IsaacMoses has determined, according to his query, that [christianity] questions, on average, score higher than [halacha] questions (5 to 4); just for the curious. — Shokhet 14 secs ago

Isaac Moses

@Shokhet Yodeyans prefer Christianity to Judaism. Story at 11.

6

Shokhet

@IsaacMoses 6641 responded to my comment, but I think I'll leave it be.

@IsaacMoses @Scimonster @CharlesKoppelman, you all voted with me to close this question as POB. What do you say to the following comment?

I don't get the closing of this, but not this. Both ask to for experience based advice, not opinion. — Yishai 2 hours ago

(ignore the most recent revision of the question)

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses wow! Wouldn't have been among my first several guesses.

Shokhet

.....happens to be, question #4 is on-topic at LH

Scimonster

10:56 PM

I'm supposed to be asleep, but i got distracted by a Wikipedia article about Romance languages, which moved to Germanic, then Indo-Eurpoean.

Shokhet

@MonicaCellio I'm not so surprised:

Oct 7 at 14:11, by Isaac Moses

@Shokhet (I founded mi.yodeya almost 5 years ago, thinking it would be mostly for how-to questions, and want them to stick around on it ... 8^D)

(took me too long to find that message)

Shokhet

11:12 PM

....where's that gemara that says that one amorah asked another a question, and got yelled at it by a third because the amorah he asked wasn't holding in that mesechta?

I'm feeling it's the top of an amud beis....

Matt

@MonicaCellio so, to clarify, you're just asking about the requirements of a Noahide vis a vis repentance? That wasn't how I originally understood the question, but I can answer it now I think. The Mabit talks about the teshuva of non-Jews in Shaar HaTeshuvah chapter 13

Monica Cellio

Amateurs -- you've got nothing on this guy. — Monica Cellio 1 min ago

3

@Matt yes -- a Noachide wrongs a Jew; what does he need to do according to us to do teshuva (if that's even meaningful), and if he doesn't is he included in our blanket forgiveness anyway (like Jews would be)? Thanks for taking a look! And if you can provide any feedback on how to make the question clearer, I'm interested.

Matt

Perhaps it's just my fault for reading too much into the introduction (regarding the pre-Yom Kippur release clause), but I thought you were just asking about that prayer and its applicability. Otherwise, the Mabit believes the laws of repentance for Jews and non-Jews to be equivalent, and many other poskim seem to assume this as well because they learn some laws of teshuva from the people of Ninveh in the Jonah story (who weren't Jewish)

Monica Cellio

@Matt so let's say that Ploni has wronged me (in a non-financial way -- he's just offended me or something), and likewise Joe Gentile has wronged me. My understanding from the answer I linked is that, come Yom Kippur, I've forgiven Ploni (unless maybe I say "except Ploni" when saying that text, which I don't know is kosher). So what about Joe Gentile? Same thing?

@Matt I'm sorry for the confusion. (I'm sorry it took until now to realize it was present.) It seemed possible that the concept of teshuva doesn't even apply between Jews and gentiles, and that was part of the background to the question. If the laws of teshuva are equivalent that's definitely valuable info, thanks! (Who's the Mabit?)

Matt

11:30 PM

Ah ah, so if that's the question then we're back to me not being able to answer, sorry. It's not a question about Noahide's repentance requirements, it's about whether or not the prayer includes non-Jews. I would guess that it's your intent that matters but i don't know

Monica Cellio

It's a two-part question: (a) what does a gentile need to do if he wrongs a Jew, and (b) if he does nothing (doesn't do teshuva) is he part of the blanket forgiveness?

Matt

Moses ben Joseph di Trani

Moses ben Joseph di Trani (Hebrew: משה מטראני‎) known by his acronym Mabit (Salonica, Greece 1505 – Jerusalem, Ottoman Empire 1585) was a 16th-century rabbi in Safed. His father had fled to Salonica from Apulia three years prior to his birth. While still a boy Moses was sent to Adrianople to pursue the study of the Talmud under the supervision of his uncle Aaron. At the age of sixteen he went to Safed and completed his studies under Jacob Berab. In 1525 he was appointed rabbi of Safed; he held this office for some fifty-five years, when he eventually moved to Jerusalem. According to a 16th-century...

sorry for the confusion, then. I can answer (a) to say that his requirements are the same as that of a Jew, but not (b)

Monica Cellio

The Nineveh case is interesting but the transgression there was idolatry, a transgression against God. I'm wondering about the case where a wrong is done against a Jew, meaning that if it were another Jew the wrongdoer would have to approach the victim, acknowledge the wrong, make amends, ask forgiveness, etc.

Matt

it wasn't just idolatry, there was also stealing etc.

Monica Cellio

@Matt ah! We were talking about him earlier, but I didn't recognize the abbreviation. Thanks.

@Matt oh, hmm. So wrongs against other people were involved. There may be an answer there, then.

I had not realized how complicated the question would be, and even if a complete answer isn't possible (or isn't possible soon), I'll happily award the bounty to a partial answer, something that at least gets me closer.

Matt

11:36 PM

if you're hinting to me that I'll get 50 rep for giving you a partial answer I may just take it on...

:-)

Meta-Man

0

Q: Tweaking Mi Yodeya's scope to build a broader community

I was reading this post about one person's issues with Stack Overflow, and something it said struck me (as I noticed the same thing, but didn't attempt to articulate it): The "flavour" of StackOverflow today is entirely different than the flavour it had when I started. When I started the com...

discussion scope

Monica Cellio

@Matt you or any of the others who were discussing this in here earlier, but I don't know if any of them were doing more than offering pointers.

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