V'dibarta Bam - 2014-12-18

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12:27 AM

@HodofHod Hey, that's mine!! :P

Anyone else here on Lifehacks?

0

Q: Hacked Chanukah Menorahs

Help! I'm stuck in yeshiva, and I need a menorah to light for Chanukah! I didn't bring one from home, and candle lighting is in five minutes -- there's no time to run to a store to buy one, and all of those stores are closed for the day, anyway. What can I do to make an ad-hoc Chanuka menorah, o...

fire candles holidays

......there are actually some very good hacks in my answer, there.

@CharlesKoppelman Your link is currently "לא נמצא" ....know where I might find that article now? — Shokhet 2 mins ago

Although, it could be that it got taken down due to @DoubleAA's criticism..... ;-) — Shokhet 1 min ago

1:04 AM

For those of you not on LH private beta, here are some pics and excerpts from my answer to that question:

user image

user image

user image

user image

.....unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of the soda can menorahs. Sorry!

@Shokhet from my days in yeshiva I have pics of soda cans, beer bottles, Smirnoff bottles (Grey goose shammash) potatoes....

@HodofHod Want an invite to LH private beta? .....you can post an alternate answer to my question :)

Can I look around etc. without a commitment?

I don't know how it works; I think that the only commitment is if you'd have committed to the A51 proposal, but I don't know how these things work.

Can you invite me? I'll have look.

1:13 AM

Sure. I'd need your email address, though.

user image

Phooey. Forgot that detail. I wonder if they accept mailinator addresses...

@HodofHod hm.....you might drop it as a comment on one of my older posts, delete it after? .......that is, if you don't mind my having your email...... ;-)

or, you could probably get an invite email at lifehacks.stackexchange.com ....try it

I actually looked at that page in incognito mode.....I don't see a place to request an invite....

Can't request one. And I avoid giving out my email, especially online :0

Same :)

(I don't claim it's a rational thing in all cases)

1:19 AM

29 secs ago, by Shokhet

Same :)

OK, so why don't you send it to madeupaddress@mailinator.com

Let's see what SE does.

That's yours?

"invite sent"

I can send more invites, though

HodofHod, עולם הזה הגשמי

101

2

You in yet, @HodofHod?

רפואה קודם למכה, huh? :P

Here's the link to my question: lifehacks.stackexchange.com/q/1910/59

@Shokhet not mine. Seems to be one that's actually in use a fair bit. I accepted the request and deleted the email.

1:23 AM

Aha. Cool.

@Shokhet (I thought it up on the spot, but it was hardly original) BTW, the trouble with many of the pics you post is that they require either those glasses, or floating wicks.

@HodofHod I've seen people do the soda can ones w/o floating wicks, just those wicks that are just tufts of wool.....

You have hacks that don't require oil cups?

Or floating wicks?

@HodofHod Also, I think the donut guy used candles; though I haven't seen that one in action.

user image

Afterwards: latkes!

user image

^^^^ ?????

user image

Reload?

1:36 AM

@HodofHod This one I see.

Cool!!

TMI: That was cut and carved with a plastic disposable knife.

Classic yeshiva stuff :)

@HodofHod on a reload, I get this:

user image

......I might file a bug report on MSE on this.

@Shokhet Done.

2:02 AM

@Shokhet Did you try in incognito/without extensions/another browser?

@HodofHod No, but I probably should. Hang on.

Chrome incognito: nothing

Firefox got a weird one:

user image

.....will put that into the MSE post.

And done.

That's really odd though -- why would imgur images that are pngs work, but not jpg?

2:18 AM

@HodofHod @Shokhet for future reference, you can walk into a private beta by finding the Area 51 page for the proposal and following the "visit the site" link there. It'll make you create an account, though; you can't just browse anonymously.

@MonicaCellio I didn't know that. Thanks!

Why have I not earned any silver badges yet since hats started? Before hats I got several... And no Yearlings coming up within the window, either. Oh well.

@Shokhet I saw that on MSE somewhere, somewhen -- details fuzzy.

@MonicaCellio Hmmm....I got Pundit and Outspoken on MY right before hats started. My werewolf hat (currently on the shelf) was for a silver badge on LH.

@Shokhet still, Pundit and Outspoken are accomplishments, especially on non-huge sites like ours. And I'm not fussy about where I get my headgear. :-)

What'd you get on LH, a Good Question/Answer? (Or maybe Enlightened?) Can you tell I'm too lazy to go look? :-)

@MonicaCellio Me neither :-) ....I wore it for a while, but then noticed that a bunch of other people were wearing it also :)

@MonicaCellio Good answer -- filling a hot water urn that doesn't fit the sink ......and that's not even my own hack!

2:25 AM

@Shokhet I think I'll probably change mine every couple days, just to keep things fresh.

@MonicaCellio I see. ~~I might~~ I'll probably do the same.

@Shokhet ah, clever.

@MonicaCellio I took that picture before committing to LH -- but I decided that LH was a good place to post it :)

@Shokhet so how is LH working out so far?

@MonicaCellio They were a little directionless for a bit, but I think they're headed in a very positive direction. ....I have no idea how private/public beta works in general, but if things continue as they are I expect they'll make it to public beta at some point.

2:38 AM

@HodofHod Hmm, it works for me.

@Shokhet private beta is for a couple weeks, to build up an initial body of questions and start reaching early consensus on scope. I've been through a few of them, though so far I haven't been on one that didn't make it to public so I don't know what that looks like except via rumor.

Aha. I'm getting the feeling that this one stands a good chance of taking somewhat longer in private beta, partially because the scope started out pretty nebulous, though it's coming together pretty nicely now.

@Shokhet it's only been a week, right? If it gels in the next week that wouldn't surprise me. OTOH, late-December stuff may cause them to push it out another week anyway.

@MonicaCellio "gels"?

3:02 AM

@Shokhet I meant "jells", but apparently that's not what came out of my fingers. Usually I only have homophone problems in Hebrew, not English...

@MonicaCellio :P

.......though honestly, I still don't get it :(

"jells" = "enter public beta" ?

I have to go; TZT @all! :)

Freilichen Chanukah!!

@Shokhet sorry. "Jells" like "settles", like in Jell-o -- coheres enough that you can see a shape forming for the site, so to speak.

@Shokhet and to you! TZT.

3:56 AM

OK there is way too much that happened in this room in the past 7 hrs. Any highlights I missed?

5 hours ago, by HodofHod

@Shokhet Nice! Speaking of brothers, mine turned 13 today. Here:

@HodofHod Mazal tov!

Thank you! I'll pass it on. :)

"Hey, a bunch of internet strangers said...."

4

@HodofHod heh. Maybe add up all of the rep of those who wished mazal tov, and tell him "X worth of Mi Yodeya reputation wishes you mazal tov!"

If you add on the rep I didn't get this week due to being over the 200 limit, I'd be a 20k user now.

@YeZ That's great! :D

@YeZ /looks ...wow

4 hours later…

7:58 AM

@YeZ Or like Aspirin, formerly. Or Band-Aid, now. And many others.

@Scimonster Pies don't take off so well. Too heavy.

8:10 AM

May 8 '12 at 0:13, by msh210

@Alex Mazal tov! He should grow up to be a talmid chacham, a y're shamayim, and a baal midos tovos.

(and the following few chat posts).

8:22 AM

@MonicaCellio Gels is fine. I think it's the older spelling. As in gelatin.

8:58 AM

I lost my Mi Yodeya Meta visit streak. :(

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Q: Why no On The Road hat?

I asked http://mi.yodeya.com/q/50539 using the iOS app but didn't receive the On The Road hat. Why not? (I edited the question within the edit window from a desktop computer. Perhaps that has something to do with it?)

bug winter-bash ios-app

9 hours later…

6:08 PM

Come to think of it, my Chanukah hacks question would probably be on-topic here, as a how-to :P .....if LH fails, someone remind me to repost it here ;-)

@Shokhet why wait?

@YeZ Cross-posting is discouraged on SE......

@YeZ I also saw your answer to that question; +1 :P

@HodofHod hasn't posted one yet, though...... we're waiting :P

@Shokhet Are you sure about that?

@IsaacMoses I've been "yelled at" for it at least once, though I don't have a canonical MSE post on-hand. Why do you ask?

@Shokhet I was under the impression that it's fine, as long as each post is written appropriately for the site it's posted to

6:22 PM

@Shokhet we have some cross-posted questions here, which are explicitly identified as such.

One of them is +20 voted IIRC

@IsaacMoses I mean, you could ask about the rules of blessing after using the facilities, and get different answers on each religion site; but this would be exactly the same question, no matter where it is......

I dunno. I've seen questions closed (and possibly deleted, I don't remember) for being cross-posts....one of my questions was mod-deleted on a tech site for being a duplicate across SE......

@Shokhet But with different communities of experts addressing it

Let's ask the MY mods what they think about it.

@IsaacMoses Hm.....I dunno.

@Shokhet More pertinently (WADR to our elected stewards), we could ask the community.

3

@IsaacMoses Fair point. I'll probably do that later; I actually have to run now ( terrible timing, I know :P ) ....if you want to ask first, כל הכבוד.

TZT!

6:30 PM

@Shokhet and a freilechin TZ to you!

far22, are you the same person as JOJO or jojo? You seem to be asking a very similar style of question. If so, you might be interested in asking for your accounts to be merged. That way, you can keep track of all of your activity here in one place. — Isaac Moses 21 secs ago

@IsaacMoses If we don't have a close reason applicable to these questions, I think we should invent one quickly. Unless we want an endless stream of "what does this word that I heard my Rabbi say mean" questions.

@YeZ What's the harm and/or why do you think they don't belong here?

How are these questions objectively answerable? "What word did my Rabbi say that sounds like flumpdigy?" "I don't know; go ask him!" Motion to close this and all the others like it as POB. — Double AA ♦ 14 secs ago

@IsaacMoses They aren't objectively answerable. Don't judge a question based on the answer. You can't decide a question is on topic just because you think you know which word or phrase he is misspelling.

flumpdigy and navaminah are either both valid or both close-worthy.

6:47 PM

@DoubleAA I think you're probably right (@YeZ)

@DoubleAA Opinion bases sounds good. Although its a bit loose.

OTOH, if the question was "What is this word that sounds like 'navamina' in this recorded class?" or "What is this oddly-spelled or blurry word in this page out of a Torah book?" it would not be closable by that standard.

@IsaacMoses example/613 is my favorite example!

@YeZ Off-topic: "we weren't there"?

@IsaacMoses I think that would be a fine (although not very high quality) question.

6:51 PM

@IsaacMoses Correct. That is much more objective. כנלע"ד

@IsaacMoses Well, that would also apply to questions about Har Sinai, so...

Off-topic: "your teacher's head"

off topic: "Game of Madgab"

@DoubleAA did you see my comment (and were you pinged)?

6

Q: What does "Aman deAmar" mean?

I go to a Gemara shiur, and the rabbi always says "the first aman deamar", "the second aman deamar"... What does it mean exactly? What is the meaning of the different words?

words talmud-gemara

^^ The first of these. Now here, it is abundantly clear what phrase is meant. The only problem is a slight corruption. If the prepended 'a' was not there, would it be in? Is it in with the 'a'? If so, why? Because there's sufficient context provided? (@YeZ @DoubleAA)

7:05 PM

@IsaacMoses I think that one is off also. It's a tougher question if he happens to have a real word - I still think it should be out, unless he has an objective use of the word which others could observe.

I'll bet there are a lot of counter examples on the site that someone will now bring up.

@YeZ "In a class about eruvs, the rabbi kept talking about something called a lechi. Could you please explain what a lechi is?" <-- Not objective enough?

@IsaacMoses heh the arrow is pointing to yourself. I think you're a very objective fellow.

@YeZ Only in your subjective reality. Your browser window must be wider than mine.

@IsaacMoses star for "subjective reality"

@ShmuelBrin He should have, since he edited the question....I've always wondered about close-voting, though.

7:10 PM

@IsaacMoses I think that that one is also hard to call off, but at the end of the day, unless you provide evidence that this word is used... if the answer could be "there is no such word and you need a hearing test" is maybe a good litmus.

Even if that answer would be incorrect.

@YeZ Hah! It occurs to me that this boils down to the same machloket as "I saw this odd practice; is it Judaism?" and we're leshitateinu. I honestly didn't see that coming.

I personally think those questions are fine, even though we should leave comments recommending the asker to ask the lecturer his question directly, if he can -- that's the way he'll likely get the best answer..

@IsaacMoses I disagree. This is about objectivity of answers.

@IsaacMoses I'm skimming through the search results for "is:q what does mean" and they all seem to provide a concrete source where the term asked about could be found.

@IsaacMoses No good, unless the spell לחי.

Consider as parallel, my comment:

Jan 5 at 17:59, by Double AA

I move to close any "what's the bracha on X" question which doesn't provide an ingredient list/recipe.

7:13 PM

@DoubleAA Because "all transliteration is interpretation"??

@DoubleAA This is even a bit worse than that. At least there, I can google the food and see what it is. Here, unless he provides contact info for his rabbi, I have nothing to go on.

@YeZ I think @DoubleAA's point there is that you can google all you want, but you might not have the same recipe as OP was thinking of

@IsaacMoses At the very least it's different then the current questions which discuss "something that sounds like didlkump". If he can say for sure he is accurately describing the sounds then I will back off on transliteration.

@YeZ But what if he tells us what dapim the daf yomi shiur was on? .....I was able to figure something out from that, here

@YeZ What if someone finds a cholent recipe with beans but no barley?

7:15 PM

24 mins ago, by Isaac Moses

OTOH, if the question was "What is this word that sounds like 'navamina' in this recorded class?" or "What is this oddly-spelled or blurry word in this page out of a Torah book?" it would not be closable by that standard.

@YeZ So look at my link; he provided the relevant dapim. What now?

....and I was able to use that to figure out a proper answer

@ShmuelBrin I was pung. (Editors and closers are pingable.)

@Shokhet I didn't vote to close that one. Although, the words he used are not from the daf.

@DoubleAA I didn't know closers were pingable. That could be useful!

@YeZ Arguable. I found a few through a search of the masechta, and Dan found the last one himself.

@Shokhet Ya, for when you want to say @DoubleAA Great job on closing this! I have no complaints about your actions. :)

3

7:17 PM

@Shokhet how about akdama?

@DoubleAA :)

@DoubleAA Perhaps we apply a "bari vs. shemma" standard?

@DoubleAA it becomes a gray area. If someone says "what is the blessing on cheeze its" then there isnt much room for confusion.

@IsaacMoses I think we hold lav bari adif, no?

@DoubleAA There have been many instances in which I've wanted to upvote a closure or an edit.

7:18 PM

@YeZ That's a proper noun. Effectively a recipe.

@YeZ Okay, but I tried to find a relevant phrase by searching for "קדמ," and was able to propose something based on the fact that it was a daf yomi shiur

@Shokhet Just because in one case you put together an ok guess doesn't mean the question form was acceptable.

@Shokhet Yes, but it could just as well been that he misheard the word "אדם" or כתם or הדום

@DoubleAA Great job on this response. I have no complaints about it.

@DoubleAA Okay, but I wanted to point out that with enough context (type of shiur, relevant dapim) the question becomes much more answerable.

7:20 PM

@IsaacMoses (Is pinning that a misuse of mod powers?)

4

@DoubleAA (I was about to ask that myself.)

@DoubleAA that's why I say it's a gray area. I assume "apple" and "corn" also would be ok.

@IsaacMoses (It's not actually a mod power, but a room owner power. So I think I'm ok.)

Corn (disambiguation)

Corn or maize is a large-grained crop native to the Americas. Corn may also refer to: == Food == Cereal, a group of grasses cultivated for their edible seeds. In British English, "corn" can mean any cereal. == Places == Corn, Lot, France Corn, Oklahoma, United States == Other uses == Corn (surname), and persons with the name Corn (color) Corn (emulator), a software emulator for video games Corn (film), a movie Corn (medicine), an ingrowing callus often on the foot A type of snow == See also == Korn (disambiguation) Corne (disambiguation) Corny (disambiguation)...

@DoubleAA I think all mods have that ability, whether they're owners or not.....but I'm not 100% sure

7:22 PM

@IsaacMoses so it's even grayer than I thought. So what.

@DoubleAA But, uh, was that a message that deserves special status on the sidebar?

@YeZ That is a recipe! Recipe for apple: 1 Apple. Eat.

@YeZ So I scored a pedantry point.

2

@YeZ @IsaacMoses I don't think anyone would ask about the correct bracha to make on "Corn, Oklahoma, United States" :P

@IsaacMoses If I had pinning powers, that would go up.

7:23 PM

@IsaacMoses It's highlighting an opportunity for others to share in the sentiment.

@Shokhet Yes. But I'm an owner here. (Isaac in fact made me one back in the day.)

@DoubleAA Cool.

@DoubleAA Same day I made myself not one.

It appears that all mods are owners, and all owners are mods ;-)

@Shokhet That is but a coincidence of history. I could make anyone an owner of this room.

@DoubleAA That might answer:

@DoubleAA I'm waiting :P

7:25 PM

5

Q: Seeking old Jewish recipes

What are some really old recipes that Jews are known to have used (actual recipes that say how to make the dish, not just names or descriptions of what was eaten like צלי קדר)? I'm seeking specifically recipes for food, not for medicine. And if you've tried one of the recipes, or know someone wh...

history food cooking-bishul

OK back to work. I think the questions of they type "what does this word that I may or may not have heard correctly mean" are off, regardless of how much they may be guesss-able, because at the end of the day, they are a guessing game. I think the beracha example is fine, but even if you argue by the beracha example, this is worse. a freilechin!

@YeZ (The word "corn" triggered that response because I just saw it in the translation of a comment of Rashi on the parsha.)

@IsaacMoses See meta.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/cross-posting, and, more importantly, meta.stackexchange.com/q/64068/266359 .....what now?

@YeZ My position: there is a gray region here, and a question helps its case by a) not expressing doubt about what the word was, b) providing useful context, or c) asking about a word that, in fact, clearly fits in said context

Um. I think something must be buggy....I think SE chat just gave me a flag to handle in the Green Llama; which is a room I've never been in........????

7:31 PM

@Shokhet IIRC, once you get to a certain level, you get all spam/offensive flags on the chat network. (I got that one too.)

A blue number in a circle popped up on my gravatar, I clicked on it......and I got something that looked like a flag, with the option to mark "helpful" "decline" or "not sure" .....but I've never been in the Green Llama, and that flag made no sense, at all, at least to me -- I'm almost certainly missing context.

@IsaacMoses "certain level"?

@Shokhet uhh, networkwide rep?

Got it -- it's global reputation of 10K ....cool!

@Shokhet Mazal tov

@IsaacMoses Thanks. It's largely MY rep -- 6K of that, in fact :)

7:35 PM

@YeZ Mazel Tov on passing 20k! Now you can ~~brag about it to your friends~~ do more more effective janitorial work:

7

2 days ago, by Double AA

@ShmuelBrin Shkoyach! Remember you have a delete vote now for really poor answer.

user image

3

@TriG well, what do you expect from Jewgle? /s

@Shokhet I think the answers there are under the unwritten assumption of being primarily about the SOSFSU trilogy plus maybe some other technical sites, where the scopes are constructed intentionally to be non-overlapping.

@TRiG Another image not found! Ah!! :(

:D

7:38 PM

@TRiG In reverse order of difficulty, I guess

@IsaacMoses Ah.

@TRiG This time .png. I'll have to edit that into that bug report.

... though Islam is probably easier than Catholocism

@Shokhet the tzad hashaveh is that they're not using stack's uploaded.

*uploader

i.imgur, instead of i.stack.imgur

@HodofHod Oh! I thought they were.

@TRiG I have a feeling there ought to be a purim-torah-in-jest question this season about converting to/from PDF

@Shokhet I think we and other SE sites ought to come up with our own rules for cross-posting, and would-be cross-posters should be subject to the rules of both target sites

7:42 PM

@IsaacMoses See also the third answer there

@IsaacMoses Aha. So I think I'll finish writing that MMY question, then.

@Shokhet "If you really think your question belongs on both sites, it probably doesn't." is just simply not true when you're talking about, say, a history-of-Judaism question WRT MY and History

@Shokhet yes, please

@IsaacMoses I was ignoring that part of it, see rather "Very occasionally you may want to ask substantially identical questions on two sites, to reach different communities.", and "this can be OK," from Jeff Atwood's comment there

@Shokhet Not sure why Atwood insists on "materially different"

@IsaacMoses That could be your point on "reaching different communities of professionals" (paraphrase, not quote) .....I think.

Just let me finish writing the question, all right!?!?!? :P

8:02 PM

0

Q: What is Mi Yodeya's position on cross-posting?

Some sites on the SE network don't like cross-posting at all, while others think that it can be okay, in certain situations. What does the Mi Yodeya community think about cross-posting, where the question in question is perfectly on-topic on both sites, or could be slightly modified to match bot...

discussion scope questions stackexchange cross-posting

^^^^ done. :P

8:14 PM

@IsaacMoses Very probably.

@Shokhet This isn't something I uploaded to Imgur. It's just something I found there.

hi chevre

8:50 PM

@IsaacMoses c) seems to be judging a question by its answers.

@YeZ incidentally, yes

@DoubleAA at the end of the day, cholent has a definition of some sort. If the question would demand generalizing the answer, then that would be the answer to that question. If someone asked "what is the blessing on a snack?" then there is no one beracha you could name, but you could explain how the rules of blessings apply to snacks.

@IsaacMoses so it sounds like bad policy to allow questions which may be good, depending on if they turn out to be clear.

@DoubleAA Thanks! Can you give me the run down of the most fun ways to abuse the privelege?

@YeZ It's not "turn out to be." In the mind of the person deciding whether to close the question, is it clear what this word is and how it fits in the stated context? If so, then that judgement can contribute to deciding to keep the question open, IMO.

... so maybe the correct closure reason for the ones that are not sufficiently obvious is "Unclear."

@IsaacMoses It just seems to me that instructions which could not be followed by the asker cannot turn it into a good question. "Don't ask about words which you heard and don't know what they mean or even if they are real words, unless they actually are real words."

The review page is especially entertaining this time of year - it's nice rows of gravatars with funny hats.

9:10 PM

@YeZ "Provide as much context for your question as possible." ... "Sorry, it's not clear what word you're asking about, since what you've transcribed is not a perfect match for any pertinent terms, and people trying to answer can't listen to the same class you did to see if their guesses are right. I'm going to close this for now as 'Unclear.' Could you [edit] in a link to a recording of the class?"

We use knowledge of Judaism to determine whether questions are on-topic or not all the time.

@IsaacMoses could you give me an example? I feel like this is an exceptional case.

I think I'm gonna take a screenshot of my hatted avatar and use it as my new avatar.

@YeZ judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/50474/… Without knowledge of Judaism, you might assume this question was about Judaism, even though it's not proven therein, since it's about curses and asked on MY.

@IsaacMoses Isn't that very easily verifiable?

I can conclusively show, in that case. When someone says "my rabbi said 'nafka mina' " I can't actually prove that the rabbi said "נפקא מינא"

and certainly if the person said "my rabbi said "narfkamina" " I cannot prove that he did or didn't say נפקא מינה

@YeZ judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/50442/… is, to my mind, unclear, since I have no idea what "true bittul" means here. If it said an equally-jargonny "can benei Noach be mevatel things used for avoda zara" or something, I could use my knowledge to determine that it's on-topic, but could maybe use some dejargonification

How to sneak a question onto this site:

in The Upper Room, 2 mins ago, by TRiG

@fredsbend Ask that question. But replace "the time of Christ" with "second Temple period".

9:26 PM

@YeZ I don't care what the rabbi said, if defining "nafka amina" in the context of gemara study is a) an on-topic and [therefore presumptively] worthwhile question and b) highly likely to be what OP intended. In fact, I think there, I'd edit out the obvious error in transcription.

... but if (b) is not obvious, then we have to close as unclear and let OP come back and fix it.

can I not use imgur images for gravatar?

@YeZ You can use Imgur or Gravatar for your avatar here. I'm not sure what you mean by using Imgur for Gravatar.

I don't think we should let just any "what does this word mean?" question in, but some should be permissible. I think that if the OP provides context for the words with an indication that it is related to Judaism, it should be ontopic. (@DoubleAA @IsaacMoses @YeZ)

But i suppose i'm also noge'a badavar, as i've answered a couple of them.

10:02 PM

@Scimonster I had the same thoughts

@Scimonster possibly for the same reasons

@YeZ You wouldn't be the first to do that :P

10:22 PM

@TRiG, regarding your suggested edit to this answer, I've voted to approve because you make the claims in the answer more precisely and with documentation. However, it was and is a very incomplete answer, since all it does is get part of the way to answering Part 1 of the question. It's valuable since it's cited by Shalom's answer, which is much more complete with respect to the question.

@IsaacMoses There's a lot of nonsense from the nastier type of Christian about the origin of Xmas. It can be fun to tell them that it dates back to the twelfth century.

@TRiG I think by the time you've made that big an edit, it's time to write your own answer. :)

@Scimonster :19154343 Probably, yes.

I've never seen a double click on the arrow do that before.

@TRiG That actually happened to me earlier. Did you erase the automatic space, before clicking on the arrow again?

@Shokhet I'm not sure.

@Shokhet :19154573 But I did manage to replicate it by doing so.

10:36 PM

@TRiG :19154600 I see.

@TRiG :19154600Same.

unforgettableid

11:00 PM

Hi all! :) A question:

Is it allowed to eat medicinal foods on Shabbat as a remedy? For example, can I eat a clove of garlic, or a bite of ginger root, to ward off a cold? Can I eat a spoonful of valerian root powder to help me sleep?

@unforgettableid If I remember correctly, so long as it's "מאכל בריאים," a food eaten by normal people, and eaten in a normal way.

See Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 328, and I think there's a very relevant discussion there about using whiskey for a toothache.

unforgettableid

@Shokhet Cool, thanks! But do normal people eat valerian root powder??

@unforgettableid I don't know. I do know people who eat onion and garlic, straight.....although I don't know if that classifies as "normal"

unforgettableid

@Shokhet :)

@unforgettableid "ward off a cold" means you have a cold already, and want to treat it, or it means that you want to prevent a cold?

unforgettableid

11:07 PM

@Shokhet It means I have a cold, and want to treat it.

@unforgettableid So then it would depend on the definition of "חולה שאין בו סכנה," which is something I don't quite have down pat yet :P .....I do recall that someone once asked my Rosh Yeshiva about it, and he said "if you would go to bed, if going to bed would make you feel better" is the definition of חושאב"ס

החושש בשיניו is discussed at 328:32

unforgettableid

@Shokhet IIRC R' Bodner writes that a cold is usually considered just a maychush.

@unforgettableid I actually have his book downstairs. Let me check what he says.

He says it could be מיחוש, or חולה שאין בו סכנה, depending on the severity.

unforgettableid

@Shokhet My mistake.

> If the cold is so severe that one is bedridden, or he is otherwise incapacitated, he may take any cold or pain medication that he needs.

Oh!

unforgettableid

11:14 PM

@Shokhet I think that most people with colds don't stay in bed.

@Shokhet Though they probably do tend to sleep more than usual.

> One may carry medicine to the patient; provided that he uses a shinui

^^^^ great example!

Relevant passage (in the מיחוש part of cold):

> One may eat foods that help relieve cold symptoms (e.g., chicken soup, tea with honey, etc.) even though one is only eating them to treat his cold.

unforgettableid

Ah! Intriguing. Maybe valerian tea, then, is halachcally permissible.

Is that something that is generally drank by people who aren't sick (similar to chicken soup)?

unforgettableid

@Shokhet dunno.

@unforgettableid Is it any different than regular tea?

11:20 PM

I'm actually looking at R Bodner's definition of חולה שאין בו סכנה......it appears that i was wrong before; someone who is concerned that he will, at a later point in time, be a חולה שאין בו סכנה, actually does have all the leniencies of a חולה שאין בו סכנה

unforgettableid

@Scimonster Yes. Instead of tea leaves (Camellia sinensis), valerian tea contains valerian root (Valeriana officinalis).

Also a חולה שאין בו סכנה = ספק חולה שאין בו סכנה

@unforgettableid People make tea out of different things though. There's green tea, fruit tea, other tea...

golf tea?

Okay, R Bodner defines חולה שאין בו סכנה as someone who is bedridden, whole body is affected, weak, sluggish, or cannot function normally (pp 41-43)

unforgettableid

@Scimonster That's true. Maybe valerian tea is just considered another kind of herbal tea, just like rosehip tea or hibiscus tea.

@Scimonster Golf tee probably just doesn't have that melt-in-your mouth taste, though. :)

11:23 PM

He has a couple of other cases that are included, like "child" and "postnatal care," that I don't think bear discussion here.

unforgettableid

nope. I'm a healthy adult male.

@Shokhet The medical research I've seen, by the way, has found that bed rest for sick people is never helpful and is sometimes harmful. See, for example: Allen C; Glasziou P; Del Mar C. Bed rest: a potentially harmful treatment needing more careful evaluation. Lancet. 1999 Oct 9;354(9186):1229-33.

Hey, @unforgettableid, ask that as a question, and let me answer it! ....I think I have a complete answer now, based on R Bodner

unforgettableid

@Shokhet ask what? my original question?

@unforgettableid Yes.

unforgettableid

@Shokhet :)

11:26 PM

37 secs ago, by Scimonster

Messages keep disappearing, how interesting.

@unforgettableid I'd want to read that paper fully....I'll ask my father if he subscribes to the Lancet.

unforgettableid

@Shokhet The Lancet is one of the top medical journals in the world. (Along with the Annals of Internal Medicine and the Journal of the American Medical Association.)

@Shokhet Do you have a college or university library card?

@unforgettableid As long as they stick to medicine, not politics.

@unforgettableid I know. I know my father keeps subscriptions to JAMA and JCSM (in which I've published), but I'm not sure about which others

@unforgettableid Nope. I'm in yeshiva :P

(JCSM = Journal of Clinical Sleep Medicine)

unforgettableid

@Shokhet ah :/ If you visit your local university, they probably either have a print or electronic subscription to The Lancet.

@Shokhet Cool! Could you link me to your article's abstract please?

11:30 PM

@unforgettableid I'm not sure where it went....let me see if I could find it.

@unforgettableid Honestly, it was just a review article for a high school contest :P ....I got some money for it, but not much.

I couldn't find it. :P

unforgettableid

@Shokhet If the journal is indexed in PubMed, you could find it using an advanced search for your name.

Why not ask your question on the main site?

unforgettableid

@Shokhet maybe this would work? au(Lastname F)

@Shokhet It's a poorly-formed question. It conflates ground dried herbs (which are probably eaten only for medicinal reasons) with foods which are also used in cooking (such as onions and garlic).

I found some of my father's articles, though :)

I think the journal is indexed, but I'm not sure that the high school contest articles made it

unforgettableid

@Shokhet Ah. Makes sense.

11:36 PM

Although, searching in PubMed found more articles.....and some that have nothing to do with my father or his line of research. Odd.

unforgettableid

@Shokhet If you ever find your article, you might want to upload it to the Web. researchgate.net is one site which will probably be willing to host it for free.

@Shokhet Note that you probably have to upload the unedited preprint, not the edited postprint. Postprints usually cost money.

@unforgettableid Not a bad idea. Happens to be it was written horrendously, as my father and I co-edited it over the phone, and many confusing wordings and such crept in that way.

@unforgettableid Ah.

If I were to do that, I would probably edit it again, myself, for the above-mentioned reason (being written horrendously)

unforgettableid

@Shokhet Ask your editor for permission to upload a postprint, then.

@Shokhet :19155388 How could I reword my original question?

@TRiG error 404, image not found. :( And the question is still starred. :)

@unforgettableid "Let's say I have a cold. Since there is a prohibition against רפואה on Shabbos, what can I do about it? .....May I take chicken soup, or tea? What about medicine?" ....or something like that.

@unforgettableid That bug was reported already, here

;-)

I have to run now, sorry..... TZT!

unforgettableid

@Shokhet You too. Thanks! Kol tuv.

11:41 PM

Have a freilichen Chanukah :)

unforgettableid

@Shokhet you also :)

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