V'dibarta Bam

HodofHod

12:14 AM

@Shokhet I think so. What do you think the best method to do that is?

Oct 4 '13 at 13:02, by Monica Cellio

@HodofHod @DoubleAA @IsaacMoses should any of the DH discussion end up on meta somewhere?

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod Ask on Meta

maj nem ɪz dæn

1:18 AM

@HodofHod haha, exactly, at least now they have 6 ascii characters to get them started :P

Monica Cellio

1:59 AM

@Shokhet chat should never be the source of site policy (and that wasn't my intent with those comments; the former is my opinion and the latter is what I understand to be general SE guidance). Please bring things up on meta if there are questions or disagreements about site policy!

2

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio Thanks for the clarification :) Though chat is an excellent place (probably the best) for hashing out what should be site policy.

Monica Cellio

2:18 AM

@HodofHod chat's a good place to do some hashing-out, but meta is important -- it's more durable, it attracts a different (and maybe larger) group of users, and it has voting.

HodofHod

Yep. Absolutely

Monica Cellio

(Ok, technically chat is probably more "durable", in the sense that very little gets deleted. But good luck trying to find any particular needle in this haystack!)

HodofHod

3:39 AM

@MonicaCellio I actually prefer the search here. On Meta, you can't search for comments, and it's not easy to search by author.

YEZ

4:02 AM

@MonicaCellio @HodofHod seems to be an expert at digging up old chat comments.

I have a great answer to a post that's been inactive for 4 months. I'm considering waiting 2 months to see if I can get a necromancer badge - I assume that's the opposite of the behavior those badges attempt to encourage.

Double AA

4:32 AM

@YEZ Indeed! The expected behavior is to only wait till 60 days before going for the Necromancer badge.

YEZ

@DoubleAA Haha good point. I guess that's the very unexpected behavior.

Double AA

Congratulations Deputy @Shokhet!!

3

Thank you for your contributions to keeping the site clean and orderly.

Shokhet

4:52 AM

@DoubleAA Thanks! :)

(guess that means that @pings that are links actually do work ;-)

Baby Seal

12:18 PM

@joshwaxman thanks for your comment on my ahead of the times answer about tefillin, I deleted it. though the phylactery's placement is still really cool, its not a good answer, because rabbis, per rabbinic judaism, didn't make up tefillin, and per non rabbinic judaism the made up tefillin around galen's time.

Isaac Moses

12:50 PM

The dude should move to Yerushalayim.

Double AA

3:12 PM

@IsaacMoses Is that real? It doesn't mention any names...

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA Your guess is at least as good as mine.

Double AA

Congrats @Isaac on his first Reviewer badge, and thank you @lee for becoming our newest Research Assistant.

3

(Hopefully by the time he shows up here the script will have run and given him the badge...)

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA Symbiosis!

@DoubleAA Thanks. Looking forward to earning my second pretty soon. :)

Double AA

3:31 PM

@IsaacMoses Oh! Yes, quite soon. I haven't hung out in that review queue as much since becoming a mod because my votes there (either way) knock it out of the queue and I'd rather hear what everyone else has to say. For me, every post is already basically one vote from closure even without the queue.

@HodofHod The system does allow mods to delete an accepted answer fwiw

@HodofHod It's not that far off from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Yosef_Leiner#Thought though I don't know if you can call that normative Jewish theology.

@YEZ It's much easier if you were around then such that you know the comments exist

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA Makes sense to leave the queue to the community and concentrate your efforts on mod-requiring exceptions. There are some badges that just don't fit with being a mod, but at least you get a shiny gold one that most people can't.

Double AA

3:51 PM

@IsaacMoses THAT's why I took the job, of course.

Meta-Man

4:37 PM

0

Q: Why is there a suggested edits review queue for Meta?

When I clicked review on the top of meta.judaism, I noticed that exists a Suggested Edits Review queue. This makes no sense, because (IIRC) users with <2K rep can't suggest edits on Meta, and users with >2K rep have their edits applied automatically. I don't think that this queue goes back to ...

HodofHod

6:12 PM

@DoubleAA Huh. Very interesting, thanks!

Monica Cellio

6:31 PM

@DoubleAA wow, your power to have predicted the future is impressive. :-)

msh210

7:00 PM

@IsaacMoses

Is there an Easter egg in the last line of the question, as in past ones? I can't find one. — msh210 ♦ 25 secs ago

(Brought it here & deleted it there as too chatty/not constructive.)

Isaac Moses

@msh210 Yes.

msh210

(Tbh I don't know the difference between "too chatty" and "not constructive" when it comes to comments.)

@IsaacMoses Oh! Found it. A play on the English word, too, this time. Nice.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 The former's sin is irrelevance, the latter's is destruction of some sort that's not quite rude/offensive, as I see it.

@msh210 Thanks.

msh210

@IsaacMoses "Not constructive" doesn't sound like it means the same as "destructive".

Isaac Moses

@msh210 I've always seen it as a slight euphamism along those lines

msh210

7:07 PM

Litotes

In rhetoric, litotes (/ˈlaɪtətiːz/, US /ˈlɪtətiːz/ or /laɪˈtoʊtiːz/) is a figure of speech in which understatement is employed for rhetoric effect, principally via double negatives. For example, rather than saying that something is attractive (or even very attractive), one might merely say it is "not unattractive". Litotes is a form of understatement, always deliberate and with the intention of emphasis. However, the interpretation of negation may depend on context, including cultural context. In speech, it may also depend on intonation and emphasis; for example, the phrase "not bad" can be said...

Double AA

@msh210 Was your confusion leading you to a crisis?

msh210

Perhaps I should ask on MSE. The closest I see at a glance is meta.stackexchange.com/questions/181076, which is unanswered and not exactly what I mean to ask.

@DoubleAA :-)

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA Is that a pun?

Double AA

@IsaacMoses But of course!

Too many users and not enough mods. That must be the issue.

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA translate.google.com/#en/iw/crisis isn't helping me. Woosh

msh210

7:16 PM

@IsaacMoses Funny that the URL uses the obsolete code iw for Hebrew. he replaced it some years ago.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 If you manually put in he, it redirects to the same URL with iw.

msh210

@IsaacMoses I noticed. :-)

I coulda sworn we've discussed kidush at s'uda sh'lishis on MY before. I can't find it.

^ @DoubleAA @HodofHod You're usually good at finding things. Any idea? In particular: is this question a duplicate?

Isaac Moses

@msh210 Lo matzati, but related: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1573/…

msh210

@IsaacMoses I can't believe yaga'ta. (And thanks for the link, but, no, kidush specifically.)

Isaac Moses

@msh210 I know. Sounds familiar to me, too

msh210

7:28 PM

judaism.stackexchange.com/review/close/13233 Hmph. How is this clear? The title and the question are completely different. Given that review history, though, I'm not using my mod powers to close it.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 Voted to close and commented

msh210

@IsaacMoses Thank you for that comment. I coulda/shoulda commented, myself. Instead I lazily upvoted your comment.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 "Voting is at least - and probably more - important than commenting ..."

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses huh. I wouldn't be surprised if that post is our meta's most controversial

I was right! data.stackexchange.com/meta.judaism/query/222848/…

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod I note with amusement that it has 4.5X as many downvotes as DV-explanatory comments

HodofHod

7:39 PM

@IsaacMoses True, but my comment there has a fair few upvotes. I don't think multiple comments are needed to explain one problem/disagreement.

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod Ha! The post with that distinction on Meta.SE is on a related topic.

HodofHod

That's interesting. People seem to be split on these downvote issues

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod DVs are emotionally charged.

HodofHod

Ain't that the truth.

I hope @Shog9 isn't upset with me ;)

Shog9

@HodofHod hard to be upset with someone who is so clearly wrong

;-)

HodofHod

7:50 PM

Ouch!

Shog9

(not totally clear on what you were referencing with that statement, so I stuck with a safe answer)

2

HodofHod

-1, and I'll do one better: I'll explain. I believe the goal of the SE network is to provide useful information to anybody looking for it. The means to that goal is to encourage users to contribute useful content, and modify existing content so that it becomes (more) useful. Commentless downvoting can advance the immediate goal (by ensuring that the content most useful to the most people rises and gets noticed), but it shoots the overall means in the foot (because it makes it harder to improve that content, and the author cannot correct himself for the future). — HodofHod Dec 14 '11 at 6:41

Isaac Moses

... and Poof! he suddenly appears in the room

HodofHod

Yeah, I unintentionally pinged him, though I have no idea how that was possible

Oh, I see. You were here for a moment yesterday

Shog9

@HodofHod Ah, that one. The immediate goal is the primary goal for voting. If you want to teach, teach - using comments, answers, chat,meta,phone,longhand letters on heavy-weight paper suitable for archiving with good ink transferred via quill pen and sealed with beeswax...

Folks get upset because not everyone who votes wants to teach.

:shrug: you can't make everyone a teacher.

Isaac Moses

7:55 PM

@HodofHod Oh. I thought there was a creepy search in place.

Shog9

@IsaacMoses oh, I have that too - that's how I got here yesterday.

(someone mentioned a meta feature-discussion I was monitoring)

Isaac Moses

@Shog9 "You can reroute a stream to the horse, but you can't make it bubble up to be drunk." or something

Shog9

ya

We can - and do - encourage folks to leave good comments.

HodofHod

@Shog9 Hm. I agree with you... But I fear that as it stands, there is not enough encouragement/push/whatever to teach, and so those who could, might not. That's the way it seems to me from the amount of commentless downvotes I see.

Shog9

And folks do, a majority of the time, comment when downvoting.

The comments are not always as constructive as we'd like

in fact, they're often not very constructive

Isaac Moses

7:58 PM

@HodofHod Do you think we're suffering from a dearth of people having their say?

51 mins ago, by msh210

Litotes

In rhetoric, litotes (/ˈlaɪtətiːz/, US /ˈlɪtətiːz/ or /laɪˈtoʊtiːz/) is a figure of speech in which understatement is employed for rhetoric effect, principally via double negatives. For example, rather than saying that something is attractive (or even very attractive), one might merely say it is "not unattractive". Litotes is a form of understatement, always deliberate and with the intention of emphasis. However, the interpretation of negation may depend on context, including cultural context. In speech, it may also depend on intonation and emphasis; for example, the phrase "not bad" can be said...

!

Shog9

heh...

folks are rude

HodofHod

@Shog9 Interesting. Is that based on stats, or something else?

Shog9

it takes effort to be nice

@HodofHod a bit of data analysis I did a while back. You could probably pull this from SEDE

(obviously you can't know if a comment was left by the same person who voted, but that's not all that important really)

HodofHod

@Shog9 Perhaps. But it doesn't contain info on downvoters, and I suspect detecting which comments are DV explanations is non-trivial.

Shog9

@HodofHod well, that's kinda my point - we could require comments, but we can't force explanations.

-1: I like waffles

HodofHod

8:01 PM

@Shog9 Well, clearly, any OP who didn't like waffles is deserving of any downvotes they get :P

But point well taken.

~~But your answer is also not exactly making that point.~~

It does, somewhat, my mistake. I think my comment was meant to address the other parts.

Nu. Old news. :D

@IsaacMoses No. I think there's a small problem with a "downvote and move on" behavior, but I think I'm becoming more convinced that theres not much to be done about that.

@Shog9 I want to hear more about this

Shog9

8:23 PM

@HodofHod well, say the right keywords then

HodofHod

I feel like there's a great pop-culture reference I should be using here as a keyword, but for the life of me....

NSA! Snowden! No?

;)

Ah well.

Double AA

@Shog9 That must have been me chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/468?m=17926851#17926851

I didn't write Shog9 though. It must be annoying getting alerted for all the mentions of the first 8 Shogs.

Shog9

It was Shokhet:

yesterday, by Shokhet

289

Q: New three-tiered badge idea: Explainer -> Refiner -> Illuminator

The difference between a poor or meh question and a stellar question can often simply be someone understanding it and providing it a great answer. I can't begin to count the number of times I've justified re-opening a question as a moderator by saying: Look at the answer it got, though. This ...

discussion status-completed badges se-quality-project

YEZ

9:43 PM

how do I make asterisks around a word without making it italicized instead?

*test*

Transcript for