V'dibarta Bam

12:01 AM

On the other hand, though, your proof (maybe that's too strong a word, but you know what I mean) from Egyptian Arabic is unsound....

Egyptian Arabic has a number of anomalies that set it apart from standard Arabic. Eg., ق sounds like an h, I was once told by a native speaker. <end>

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

12:21 AM

@msh210 no...

@SethJ egyptian arabic doesnt have a j doesnt mean that egyptian arabic is right. its just shows that egyptians are not real arabs and their native language is not arabic. but a mix of arabs and egyptians which made a mix of langauges arabic and egyptian

@msh210 joluth or not. it is burden on the yidden to learn to speak properly not on me to learn how ot speak improperly

@DoubleAA i pronounce it a chreemal and jeemal. not geemal. but that doesnt mean i hold j as 100%. i do it because thats how my shul says it. if i were at a different teimoni shul which said geemal and chreemal i would do geemal.

Shog9

12:42 AM

Hey, @Isaac - there are a pile of URL redirects floating around for this site / this chatroom:
me.yodeya.com me.miyodeya.com bam.yodeya.com bam.miyodeya.com chat.yodeya.com chat.miyodeya.com

Which of these are still needed / wanted?

HodofHod

1:08 AM

Hey @Shog9, any updates on RTL localization? (See the starred sidebar here, got some weird stuff going on). Also, I haven't seen or heard of the broken links review for over a year. Any news on that?

(Don't mean to bombard you with questions, it's just I don't see devs that much any more)

s/devs/cms/

Shog9

1:26 AM

@HodofHod RTL text has always been a bit dodgy in chat, IIRC; fixing that would probably depend on the whim of balpha and/or it being fixed properly on the main sites first - which would be behind a bunch of other ongoing localization work.

Link review is still in the queue somewhere - there's a prototype available internally, but I don't know when it'll be finished.

HodofHod

Fair enough.

msh210

6:48 AM

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob This is, b'li neder, the last time I'm telling you that I don't understand you when you refer back to something earlier without identifying what that thing is. (The alternative, my plan for the future, is to ignore you when you do that.)

@Shog9 Fixing bidi in the starred-posts area of this window requires just adding a character to the boilerplate: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/1322.

Isaac Moses

10:20 AM

@Shog9 IMPO, *.miyodeya.com are unnecessary. miyodeya.com itself is an alternate URL, and I think it's unlikely that anyone would try to use subdomains of it as shortcuts. bam.yodeya.com and chat.yodeya.com are useful shortcuts to get to this chatroom; I'd be inclined to keep both. me.yodeya.com is a misspelling-catcher for mi.yodeya.com; not sure how important it is to maintain that.

^^^ P is for "Patriarchal," FWIW. I defer to anyone else in the community who makes use of any of these or otherwise has an opinon on the matter.

Seth J

2:51 PM

Asher Burrows, welcome to Mi Yodeya, and thanks very much for posting this answer! You could make it even more valuable by adding links or bibliographic information for all books mentioned, breaking it up into paragraphs, and separating speculation from ideas you have sources for (or even removing the former). I hope you'll look around the site and find other top-quality stuff, perhaps including our 13 other questions about inebriation. — Isaac Moses yesterday

Top-quality stuff, eh, @IsaacMoses?

HodofHod

@msh210 @Shog9 Working jQuery POC:

function bidi(){
	reg = /[\u05D0-\u05FF]/;
	stars = $('[id^=summary_]');
	$.each(stars, function(i, star){
		reg.test($(star).html()) && $(star).html($(star).html().replace(/ - <a/, ' &lrm;- <a'));
	});
}

Yeah, there're better ways to write this, but this was fast.

HodofHod

3:13 PM

Extensible! Just add ~~water~~ Unicode blocks! reg = /[\p{InHebrew}\p{InArabic}]/

Monica Cellio

3:23 PM

@Charlie sorry, very intermittent access at the moment. If you want real-time chat it'll have to wait, but feel free to leave me a question (@-tagged so I see it) and I'll respond next time I'm here. Sorry for the bad timing.

Isaac Moses

4:03 PM

@SethJ I chose that over "mind-expanding material."

2

Seth J

Anyone remember or have any idea how to search for that list of commonly occurring names in the Talmud (I've used a few different search criteria and come up short)?

Isaac Moses

5

Q: Which Amora is mentioned most often in the Gemara?

Which Amora is mentioned most often throughout Talmud Bavli?

talmud-gemara

Bam!

Searched name ravina

Seth J

Found it finally.

8

A: Which Amora is mentioned most often in the Gemara?

I think there are different answers depending on the exact terms of the question; there are dozens of searches you could do on this one (e.g. "what value of X has the highest occurrences of amar rav X?"). As a first attempt, here are the most-common words in the Babylonian Talmud (using mechon-m...

Oh, thanks, @IsaacMoses. I searched for רבי יהודה finally.

My problem was I was searching under names and using the term "talmud" without its tag (among other methods).

Isaac Moses

@SethJ Good point. Added rabbis, names, statistics

Seth J

@IsaacMoses Shkoyich.

Isaac Moses

4:11 PM

@SethJ Brucht

msh210

6:03 PM

I've closed this as "primarily opinion-based" because "Anti-zionist definition is up for grabs and intrinsic to the question". — msh210 43 mins ago

Isaac Moses

@msh210 It's quite possibly off-topic:Israel_politics_w/o_Judaism, too

msh210

^ Please let me know if you differ, anyone. Pinging those who acted on that question, @IsaacMoses @DoubleAA.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 ... and I agree with this close reason as well

msh210

@IsaacMoses True, though what a gadol hador said on any topic is arguably on-topic, and what one said on Israel perhaps more arguably so. Not sure, though, that even the latter is on-topic.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 Could well be, but I'd like to see at least some Judaism motivation in the question.

Isaac Moses

6:22 PM

Me, attempting to channel @MonicaCellio :)

msh210

6:46 PM

@msh210 what you mean MT is not practical. if you dont pasken form it thats your problem. but it is as practical as any other holocho book, even more practical...paskening in regards to new technological advances are not coming from thin air. the rabbonim base it on the fundamentals such as RaMbaM. by learning RaMbaM you can see things differently and might hold of a different opinion on modern day things. not to mention shulchon oruch paskens most of his holochoth like rambam anyway. to say it is not practical means you hold no respect for the gamoro either. — MoriDoweedhYa3gob 1 min ago

@msh210 @MoriDoweedhYa3gob I have full respect for the g'mara but it is a very inappropriate book for deciding practical halacha.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 its inappropriate to pasken from the gamoro? that is called being an apikorus

msh210

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob It is inappropriate for the average reader, like the asker of that question on MY, to use the g'mara or the Mishne Tora in ruling on a practical question, yes.

If Rav Moshe Feinstein used the wording of the g'mara to rule on a practical question, fine. But I can't, I suspect you can't, and I suspect Ramin (the asker) can't.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 .....you rule from the gamoro for modern day things. everything you do you look into the holochoth of the gamoro.

@msh210 you dont make up your own laws and pasken from them

msh210

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob I do not.

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob Correct.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 so what are you saying.....

msh210

6:52 PM

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob I use my local rabbi or toras imi or Mishna B'rura or Aruch Hashulchan or Chochmas Adam or Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen or...

Not the g'mara.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 (Someone should come out with a full-blown sefer, with haskamot, called Torat Imecha, and pitch it as the only source for said teachings approved by the gedolim.)

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 you dont pasken from the them they are not sanhadrin. we dont pasken from the rambam he is not sanhadrin. we pasken from the gamoro

msh210

@IsaacMoses I can picture it. :-/

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 rather it is intended as a reliable presentation of halakha pesuqa as it emerges from the talmud

Isaac Moses

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob The Amoraim weren't Sanhedrin either.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

6:57 PM

@IsaacMoses mishn barura is not an amora

msh210

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob ... which is also not sanhedrin. I don't know about you, but I don't rule from the g'mara when I have a practical question.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@IsaacMoses dont ompare the 2

@msh210 then you are an apikorus

Isaac Moses

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob I'm not comparing anything. You just implied that the Gemara, unlike msh210's immediate sources or the Rambam, is Sanhedrin, but it's not.

msh210

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob I'd have to go look up the definition before I disagree, but I suspect you're wrong.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@IsaacMoses the gamoro doesnt make up holochoth. it does the same thing rambam does. it represents what the tannoim meant in the mishna

msh210

6:59 PM

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob ...But don't take my word for it: look in the g'mara and see whether it says am an apikores.

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob Iterate. So you only paskn from God Himself, eh?

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 one who doesnt pasken from the gamoro is an apikorus

Isaac Moses

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob Not when it's applying what they said to situations they didn't discuss

msh210

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob By your own standards then you have to find that halacha in the g'mara itself. Go ahead: cite it.

Isaac Moses

... which is what each generation of posekim does

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 right thats the point...

@IsaacMoses rambam looks in the gamoro and paskend. therefore we pasken from gamoro. to say we pasken from mishna barurah is to say you are an apikorus

@IsaacMoses to say that the mishna barurah paskend from the gamoro and you hold the way he paskend then ok

@IsaacMoses but to have a rov pasken from the mishna baruro and not from the gamoro is wrong

msh210

7:03 PM

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob We all heard you the first time. (Or those of us with screenreaders, anyway.) No need to keep bandying about that term.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 this is a serious matter

msh210

14 mins ago, by msh210

If Rav Moshe Feinstein used the wording of the g'mara to rule on a practical question, fine. But I can't, I suspect you can't, and I suspect Ramin (the asker) can't.

Shmuel Brin

@Mori the Gemara isn't the sanhedrin either. The sanhedrin was disbanded before the Gemara was written (AND it was in E"Y) :10511801

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 if you are a rov and paskening from something other than the gamoro you are doing it wrong

msh210

Testing. Does this ping you, @IsaacMoses?

Isaac Moses

7:05 PM

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob But the question at hand wasn't asked by a posek! It was asked by a beginning individual learner.

@msh210 Yes. What did you do?

msh210

@IsaacMoses Put your name as the text of a link.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@IsaacMoses i was addressing @msh210 for he said rambam is not practical. if he says rambam is not practical so isnt the gamoro... they didnt have cars

@IsaacMoses and if you dont pasken from the gamoro you are doing it wrong

msh210

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob not practical in the context in which I said tyhat -- ie not practical for Ramin.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 Why is it highlighted? Is this a new functionality?

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob So you kicked off a whole argument, including calling him an apikores, because you took his statement completely out of context. Not cool.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 just because yalkut yosef is a safaradi doesnt mean all safaradim should hold like him and it doesnt mean all safaradim do hold like him

msh210

7:08 PM

@IsaacMoses oh I guess so. But so is @IsaacMoses isn't it?

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 open the rambam and see pshat in gamoro then apply it to modern days

msh210

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob I agree.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@msh210 for rambam is the most reliable authority there is

:)

Isaac Moses

@msh210 I guess I've just never seen a highlighted hyperlink before

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@IsaacMoses he said he doesnt pasken from the gamoro. besides the question the guy asked this is a statement of an a apikorus

Isaac Moses

7:10 PM

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob False and out of line.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@IsaacMoses what is false about that statement

rosenjcb

@IsaacMoses One man's apikorus is another man's talmud chochom.

Isaac Moses

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob Asking for a guide from which to learn practically how to conduct oneself Halachically is not, by any definition of the term, apikorsus.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@IsaacMoses the gamoro is the source and the only source we should be paskening from. not rambam not shulchon oruch and not anthing else

Isaac Moses

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob You are interpreting "pasken from" in a way that is entirely inconsistent with the context at hand, in a way that's more like "pasken like" or "pasken according to"

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

7:13 PM

@IsaacMoses and? what means pasken from pasken like or pasken according to?

msh210

@IsaacMoses I'm trying to remember whether that's new. Not sure.

Isaac Moses

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob "Accept the authority of"

... which is not at all the issue at hand

rosenjcb

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob What do you mean you can only pasken from gemara? Didn't Rambam sometimes go against gemara if he felt it was wrong? I believe he'd take the side of the Jerusalem Talmud over the Babylonian one in certain cases.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@rosenjcb those are gamoros...

msh210

@rosenjcb That gets into "what are you calling g'mara?".

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

7:18 PM

@rosenjcb yarushalmi and bavli are both gamoro...

rosenjcb

@msh210 I assumed he was referring to Babylonian and not both.

msh210

@rosenjcb Me too, actually.

Seth J

10:02 PM

I always miss the fun stuff. <sigh>

rosenjcb

@SethJ Yep. Maybe it'll pick up motzei shabbos.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@SethJ fun huh

@rosenjcb you read the beginning of MT?

rosenjcb

10:19 PM

@MoriDoweedYa3go Yeah, why?

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@rosenjcb over there he writes where we pasken from

rosenjcb

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob I just remember an instance where he paskened from Sifre... I think it was on the prohibition of women serving in positions of authority.

MoriDoweedhYa3gob

@rosenjcb sifre is "part" of gamoro

rosenjcb

:10514474

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob It's a halachic midrash.

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