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12:00 AM
Sorry for the confusion, @RGS! My bad
 
@RGS - And, for what it's worth, in this area (NYC), you're just as likely to hear "Shabbos" or "Shabbes".
 
@RGS (Sabbath is English; Shabbos is Yiddish; Shabbat is Hebrew)
 
@AviF.S. Nope. Wrong. (CC @RGS)
 
@Adám Uh oh, really?
 
@AviF.S. - Yep. And you'll hear Yiddish a lot more in NYC than you will Hebrew.
 
12:05 AM
@Adám @RGS Whoops, sorry!
@Adám I'll let you take care of all Judaica manners, from here on! I think you're slightly more qualified :p
 
I think there's also a difference between Sefardic and Ashkenazi pronunciation of Hebrew.
 
@Adám (Do you mean because Shabbos is the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the Hebrew, rather than Yiddish?)
 
Yiddish has no word for Sabbath, but uses the Hebrew word as a loan word. However, Hebrew, while mostly identically spelled, is spoken various pronunciation schemes (c.f. Chinese, but not as mutually unintelligible). Yiddish speakers tend to use only a subset of all the schemes.
@JeffZeitlin @AviF.S. Ashkenazi and Sefardi are (broad) cultural designations, not linguistic designations.
 
@Adám Re Shabbos: Ah, this makes a lot of sense! So how would you explain 'Shabbos' in one sentence? The way Yiddish speakers tend to pronounce the Hebrew 'Shabbat'? Also, never seen 'cf'. Useful to add to my eg, ie & re vocabulary!
 
@Adám - Granted, but there seems to be a linguistic pattern that more-or-less follows the cultural pattern. Or at least does so among immigrants to the eastern US...
 
12:15 AM
@JeffZeitlin Agreed. I did believe one talked about Yiddish as being distinctly the language of Ashkenazim and Ladino as of the Sephardim
(Not sure about the other smaller cultural/ethnic groups, don't mean to ignore Mizrahim/Ethiopian/etc.)
 
@AviF.S. Shabbos is one of the pronunciations used by Ashkenazi Jews, especially by Lithuanian Jews, but also by other Ashkenazim when reciting liturgy.
 
@Adám I see! Must appreciate the precision there :)
 
@AviF.S. - No language called "Sephardic"/"Sefardic"; it's fairly common for US immigrant Sefardi to speak Ladino ("Judeo-Spanish" - basically the same kind of admixture of Hebrew and a local language that Yiddish is, but where Yiddish mixes with German, Ladino does so with Spanish).
 
@JeffZeitlin As a generalisation of NE US, I guess it works. Won't work if you actually go into any of the communities!
 
@JeffZeitlin Sorry, it was a terribly silly slip! I meant that, and did correct it!
 
12:19 AM
@Adám - This is very true.
 
@JeffZeitlin Also, this is very embarrassing! I always screw up sefardim/sephardim. In Hebrew it's the same, maybe I can blame that?
@Adám ? You'd think the same as you would if you saw it in any other language, no?
 
@AviF.S. - Both spellings occur in English; I generally see 'f', but I know several people who always spell it 'ph', and style guides for newspapers and magazines vary.
 
Again, transliterating Hebrew to English is an imprecise art.
 
@Adám - Indeed, and I suspect that one can say the same about any language that doesn't use the Latin alphabet as its writing system.
 
@Adám Very true! Was exactly my excuse (upside-down-face)
@JeffZeitlin Even then, different languages with the same alphabet often pronounce the letters differently!
 
12:23 AM
40 messages moved from The APL Orchard
I'll be happy to continue the conversation here.
 
@JeffZeitlin Say, 'amigo' or 'frere' could be transliterated into English in several ways :)
@Adám Sorry for the distraction, that's on me...
 
2 messages moved from The APL Orchard
@AviF.S. No, since Spanish and French use the same script as English, you can't transliterate them. You can only transcribe them.
 
@Adám My goodness! The things I've yet to learn
I have to look up the definition of transcription then @Adám
Ah, thanks very much @Adám! Super interesting
"... transliteration is concerned primarily with accurately representing the graphemes of another script, whilst transcription is concerned primarily with representing its phonemes..." Transliterate vs Transcribe
However, the distinction is subtle enough, that the dictionary entires I looked at defined them identically, more or less
Eg Oxford: '1b. transliterate (foreign characters) or write or type out (shorthand, notes, or other abbreviated forms) into ordinary characters or full sentences.'
 
12:47 AM
@Adám @JeffZeitlin Kind of amusing given that there's absolutely nothing more Jewish than gibbering ad nauseam with great gusto about the nuances of an answer, long after the person who asked the question is no longer listening/lost interest!
 
@AviF.S. Sure there is! ;-)
 
@Adám Debatable :p
Haha, shall we discuss another answer (upside-down-face)
@Adám What would you say qualifies for the prize?
 
@AviF.S. Wouldn't it be answering a question with a question?
 
@Adám Would it be? :p
 
@Adám - How could you even suggest that? :)
 
12:53 AM
@JeffZeitlin Shouldn't I?
 
 
1 hour later…
1:53 AM
WOW
 
 
2 hours later…
3:57 AM
4
Q: What does "נגללים" mean about the tablets?

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19 hours later…
11:00 PM
1
Q: Was Yaakov lacking Bitachon?

Bochur613When Yaakov becomes afraid of Eisav's arrival, the passuk says that he was very frightened. Chazal in Maseches Brachos note that he was afraid שמא יגרום החטא. Does this display a lack of Bitachon, especially since Hashem promised Yaakov that he will be taken care of? *IIRC, the Ramban has a kunt...

 

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