V'dibarta Bam

12:19 AM

@IsaacMoses this seems to come up fairly often. If a question, or part of a question, is not answered, does that make it any less of a dupe when someone re-asks that question?

@YeZ I do not think it is a dupe. The second part of your question about a chazzan practicing never got answered. I thought it would be better to break that off into a separate question. — Mike 2 mins ago

And, is there a canonized meta post or FAQ section where that point is made explicitly?

Dear @ShmuelBrin, WinterBash has ended. You can now come out of the shadows and put your regular face back on.

Ironic, coming from me.

@YeZ Ironically, that question got more votes than the original that it is (seemingly) a dupe of.

Shokhet

12:48 AM

20 hours ago, by Shokhet

@YeZ here's one: http://meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/1339/5323

20 hours ago, by Shokhet

http://meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/1569/5323 + http://meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/506/5323 as well

YeZ

@Shokhet Those are all similar, but they are in the reverse.

This is a case of re-asking a question, because it wasn't answered.

Shokhet

@YeZ ?

YeZ

@Shokhet Those are examples that are not dupes, but would lead to similar answers, and indeed the answers at one location answer the other. This is a situation where they are dupes, just that the original question did not get an answer.

Shokhet

@YeZ Oh. I see. ....when you pung Isaac, I though that was a continuation of yesterday's discussion.

YeZ

@Scimonster any other tricks I can use? there were no IDs in the middle of the text on the page I was looking at.

msh210

7:02 AM

@Shokhet I can't honestly say his intention is clear at this point. I don't see the benefit in opening and reclosing as a dupe.

@Scimonster Who won MY?

msh210

7:25 AM

@Shokhet I suspect that, if every answer (not just every answer that exists now but every answer that can be posted) to question 1 can also be posted to question 2 and vice versa, then they're duplicate questions no matter their content. Probably.

@MonicaCellio Your transliteration amuses me. "Toiveling" is from Hebrew tovel with a Polish(?) oi for the cholam vowel. Very Old World Ashkenazi and not something I'd expect from you. (Or me.)

Scimonster

@Shokhet What laziness has to do with myopia.

msh210

@MonicaCellio There's a (IIRC children's) story book by IIRC that title with that theme. Fwiw.

Scimonster

@CharlesKoppelman I was totally serious.

3

Q: Is modern-day Lebanon considered part of Eretz Yisrael?

Related to What are the Halachic boundaries of Eretz Yisroel? but that doesn't address my specific concern. Is modern-day Lebanon considered part of halachic Eretz Yisrael? Believe it or not, there are Jews in Lebanon. Do they follow minhagim of Israel or the Diaspora?

msh210

@IsaacMoses I like hand-picked (but agree with your other tweaks in the chat messages before and after the one I'm replying to). cc @Scimonster

Scimonster

@msh210 Me, totally. Out hatted @Shokhet 31-29. The results are still visible at winterbash2014.stackexchange.com/leaderboard/…

msh210

7:38 AM

@IsaacMoses @YeZ or id= in any tag.

...and now I see Scimonster said the same thing.

msh210

7:56 AM

@Scimonster Mazal tov!

Scimonster

@msh210 Thanks! I also made #9 network-wide. winterbash2014.stackexchange.com/leaderboard/network

Monica Cellio

1:45 PM

@msh210 yeah, it's funny -- I'm pretty sure I've never uttered the word, tried to figure out the correct Hebrew formation of the verb (the noun I've used, but not the verb), and in the end fell back on the written form I've seen on the site even though to my ear it's wrong. So, err, what vowels are used for the Hebrew there?

@Scimonster mazel tov!

Charles Koppelman

2:19 PM

Does anyone know how Shmittah affects the price of exports from Israel? I have seen Israeli peppers in an American grocery store this year and I don't remember seeing them recently

I assume it drops the price but I wonder if there've been studies about it. Not really a Mi Yodeya sort of question, though, is it?

@msh210 I think that's either Litvish or Galitzianer, but I forget

@msh210 Wikipedia says Galitzianer (ie, Polish). Litvish is "teiveling"

Scimonster

3:39 PM

@MonicaCellio tovel(l)ing

@CharlesKoppelman I assume you've never actually done shmita in Israel then. Things actually get more expensive.

I know, it's backwards.

Monica Cellio

4:18 PM

@Scimonster thank you.

Charles Koppelman

@Scimonster By "things" do you mean domestic crops or goods on the shelves?

Scimonster

@CharlesKoppelman I'm not the one who does the shopping, but i've heard that produce prices go up.

Charles Koppelman

It'd make sense if shmittah increases the cost of living in Israel in general since your domestic market now will only consume imports

but i'd be surprised if domestic crop prices went up

Scimonster

It's something to do with how the shmita loopholes work.

Charles Koppelman

If this is on topic here, I'd love to ask it. Otherwise it's probably on topic at economics.se if that exists

Monica Cellio

4:31 PM

If you focus it as buying (kosher, shmita-compliant) food, I think a question about costs is covered under Jewish life.

Charles Koppelman

4:54 PM

@MonicaCellio My question is actually something like, "What is the effect of shmitta on the price of Israeli produce exports?"

... which sounds off-topic since it is either about Israel or about economics, but only happenstantially about Judaism

It's about as on topic as if I asked in weather.se "What is the effect of El Niño on the price of Brazilian avocados?"

Isaac Moses

@CharlesKoppelman given that this particular issue is discussed explicitly in the Torah, it's likely to be on-topic, especially if couched properly

Charles Koppelman

@IsaacMoses "Mah Inyan Shmita Eitzel the price of tea in China?"

6

Isaac Moses

@msh210 the St Louis high schoolers call it "toiveling" despite the fact that most of them probably don't generally enunciate cholam like that. I think it somehow got that way colloquially in Yinglish

@CharlesKoppelman with mixing skills like that, you should be a bartender

Stack Exchange

Blog - Stack Exchange: So long Winter Bash 2014

Jon Ericson on January 06, 2015

While testing hats before the start of Winter Bash 2014, a snowflake notification told me I’d earned the Treasure Hunter hat. After adjusting pirate paraphernalia to fit my head, I tried to remember what triggers this particular hat. As it happens, I’d just received a gold badge on Cooking that I would’ve totally ignored if not for the associated hat. Suddenly I understood why this time of year resonates with our most accomplished users. Earning cosmetic items, as silly as they are, temporarily reminds us of what it was like to begin participating on Stack Exchange months or years ago. Plus, hats look really cool. …

Scimonster

5:18 PM

@CharlesKoppelman Economics

Charles Koppelman

5:39 PM

@IsaacMoses Thanks :)

0

Q: Mah inyan Shmita eitzel the price of tea in China?

I saw some red peppers in an American grocery store labelled "Product of Israel". I have never seen that before, and my guess is that since it's a shmitta year, there is less of an Israeli domestic market and it makes Israeli produce in the US relatively cheap. Is that a thing? What is the eff...

money chutz-laaretz shmita

msh210

7:05 PM

@MonicaCellio The form is that of the Hebrew present tense masc. sing. + "ing". (That's a calque from Yiddish, I believe.) Toivel is the present m.sg, טוֹבֵל, and a more usual transliteration is tovel.

Isaac Moses

7:42 PM

@msh210 ... and the noun/gerund in Hebrew would be tevila or tevilat keilim

msh210

8:02 PM

@IsaacMoses Yeah. That's the language of the b'racha also, notably.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses right, tevila / tevilat keilim I already knew (and have used recently in questions). It's the present-tense verb that I didn't have good instincts for, because:

@msh210 I think I understand perfect and imperfect tenses (let's call those "past" and "future" even if that's a fudge), but present confuses me sometimes. For example, I'm used to present-tense verbs starting with a mem -- ani (lo) mevinah 'ivrit, for instance. But this isn't that. So how does it work?

msh210

I was gonna edit "bicep" to "biceps", but apparently bicep is used. cc @TRiG

Monica Cellio

Or to use an example that doesn't have to deal with dropped letters, ani (lo) m'daber 'ivrit. "Daber" is imperative, right?

msh210

@MonicaCellio In some binyanim there's an initial mem.

Monica Cellio

Like "daber el b'nei yisrael" in lots of places.

@msh210 ah, it's a binyan thing. And I only kind-of understand those -- get them in theory, but don't know how they all work without looking up specific conjugations.

msh210

8:08 PM

Specifically, piel (m'daber), hif'il (m'vina), and hitpael (mitpalel).

Oh, and pual (m'vushal).

Monica Cellio

So tovel is not any of those; what binyan is it?

Qal?

msh210

@MonicaCellio Daber is an imperative, as well as an infinitive.

@MonicaCellio Yes.

Oh, and hof'al also has a mem, oops. (Muvan.)

Monica Cellio

Ok, so if I were trying to compose the text, what would tell me that for "to dunk" I want qal but for "to speak" I want piel? Isn't piel an intensifier? But it doesn't seem "more intense" than qal.

msh210

(As does the new binyan hitpual, but whatever.)

@MonicaCellio That's a very general sense of piel versus kal that fails to hold in many cases.

Monica Cellio

@msh210 ah. So my confusion may stem from an unfortunate choice of exemplars?

msh210

8:12 PM

@MonicaCellio And from the general sense, which probably is correct (I suppose), but which certainly has exceptions.

When the meanings of the kal and piel for the same root are related (as in lamad and limed), the piel is more "intense" (whatever that means), I think.

Monica Cellio

Ah, that makes sense -- if a word has both binyanim the distinction would presumably be there, but (the part I wasn't completely grokking) some words don't have both so they kind of fuzz.

Can you think of any verbs that (a) are regular and (b) have all seven binyanim? If I got familiar with a few of those that'd probably help me understand other cases.

msh210

@MonicaCellio I think I've seen p.k.d as an example.

Monica Cellio

@msh210 thanks, I'll check when I get home. (501 Hebrew Verbs is a handy reference but, obviously, only covers 501 of them, not all of them.)

msh210

@MonicaCellio I should say p.q.d, sorry.

Of interest to Yodeyans: a current conversation in the Seasoned Advice chat room, starting at chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/19406608#19406608

Monica Cellio

@msh210 gotcha. Thanks.

msh210

8:22 PM

@MonicaCellio Welcs. Some others in this room doubtless know more than I about this.

Gtg. Tzt, y'all.

Monica Cellio

@msh210 you too.

Scimonster

yesterday, by Scimonster

@CharlesKoppelman I can read it... But i think i'll take an actual photo of the three on a wooden table and use that.

Should i?

(Feedback on my MYP ad)

Monica Cellio

8:39 PM

@Scimonster I think that would look nice if you can do it. Wine stains on the haggadah are completely optional. :-)

Scimonster

@MonicaCellio Haggadah would just be the cover, newly printed. :)

Monica Cellio

@Scimonster ah, ok. (If the thickness of the publications seems to be coming through in the picture, which I imagine would depend on the angle, you might want to stick some other pages under there so people don't think we made the world's shortest haggadah.)

Scimonster

@MonicaCellio That was the plan.

Same with Purim.

And i seem to have misplaced my copy of the Chanukah one, so i might as well print that cover as well. It also got bent out of shape a little, so it's better.

Monica Cellio

Thanks for making the ad!

Scimonster

9:31 PM

I wish i had saved the WinterBash JavaScript to make a userscript and keep the fun going...

2

Shokhet

11:31 PM

@Scimonster @IsaacMoses was saying that he was too lazy to check who wrote that message, or what it was a response to. Hence laziness = didn't see s/t = eye problem.

@msh210 Okay. I was wondering about that, because (though I might have been imagining things) I thought I saw reopen votes on that question. That may have been a different question, though, or the votes may have since expired/been retracted.

Transcript for