V'dibarta Bam

HodofHod

12:47 AM

@ShmuelBrin Arabic letters.

Shmuel Brin

1:37 AM

@HodofHod ?

HodofHod

1:47 AM

@ShmuelBrin Apparently the numbers resemble arabic letters that make those sounds

Jun 3 at 15:03, by Daniel

@MonicaCellio I think that the 3 is used for Ayin informally because it looks like the Arabic letter Ayin

Seth J

2:00 AM

@hod unfortunately, unless you squint really hard, 9 does not resemble Arabic צ, and 7 does not resemble Arabic ח even if you do squint hard, so I'm not sure where those come from.

HodofHod

@SethJ Huh. Never mind then.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ 9 sideways is a sadh

Seth J

@Mori that's kinda what I meant. And 7?

ح

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ 7 turned opposite way

@SethJ like d to b

Seth J

@Mori How do you figure?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

2:08 AM

@SethJ common sense

Seth J

Not so common; doesn't make much sense.

2

Maybe the tail of the ح?

But that is really reaching.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ it is not supposed to be an exact replica...

@SethJ just similar looking

@SethJ curve the 7 and it will be the same

Monica Cellio

2:28 AM

This does not address the question, which asks specifically for answers "According to the sources." — Isaac Moses 2 mins ago

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio I agree.

2

Monica Cellio

I suspect that the meaning of "the sources" isn't obvious to everybody. Yeah, one who doesn't understand a question shouldn't answer it, but in this case he may have thought quoting a psalm was on-point.

@IsaacMoses ok, I don't need to ping you in my comment here. ^^^ :-)

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@MonicaCellio h1

:)

Monica Cellio

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob separate thread, not a comment on your conversation.

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio I'm not judging people, I'm judging content.

Monica Cellio

2:31 AM

@IsaacMoses as well we should. I'm not defending the user; I think his answer needs a lot of work. I think part of the problem is that he (and one other answerer, at least) doesn't know what "sources" means. What can we collectively do to make that more obvious to newcomers?

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio Interesting. "Sources" are requested frequently in questions just like that. Perhaps it's worthy of a faq entry. OTOH, there's no expectation that newcomers will have read those.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses yeah, we might want to craft a FAQ but, as you say, it might not be seen. Is there anything you can think of that could be added to this specific question to help this? I'm in the process of commenting on and removing some answers, but if there's something we can do up front too that'd be great. Just not sure what to say.

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio Perhaps ironically, if you look at the edit history, you'll see that "according to the sources" was the improvement ... by me. :)

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses oh. I missed that. :-)

HodofHod

Hey @all, sorry to interrupt, but v2.0 is out! Rambam support has been added! Thanks to everyone for helping with the synonyms, and a special thanks to @Menachem for all the links, and @msh210 for the synonyms.!

2

@MonicaCellio Can you unpin the call for synonyms from the starred bar?

thanks!

Monica Cellio

2:41 AM

@HodofHod thanks for all your work on this, all of you!

HodofHod

Please do continue to let me know if you find this useful, I will add more features if people request them.

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio <Somewhere between devil's advocate and actual conviction> Why do you feel it's necessary to pre-accommodate would-be answerers who are not familiar enough with Judaism to know what is meant, in "expert" Jewish circles, by "the sources"?

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio My pleasure!

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod I recommend that you maintain a doc for this prominently on Mi Yodeya Meta

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses In a question? Ok.

Isaac Moses

2:45 AM

@HodofHod In a question or in an answer to a dedicatedly-titled quesiton, I'd say, for prominence's sake.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses I'm not sure it is necessary; confronted with multiple people failing to understand, I naturally start wondering about mitigation for next time.

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio Your user focus exceeds balpha's. I sincerely commend you.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses thank you! I'm a realist too; I know that sometimes the answer is going to be "live and learn; we can't anticipate and solve every problem". There is a cost, after all. Just wondering about possibilities while pushing the mop down aisle 3, so to speak. :-)

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio The first thing that comes to mind is something like "[traditional | authoritative] Jewish sources," or something, but it seems like it'd be cumbersome to expect/edit this into every question that requires same.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses I don't think we'll need to on most questions, but maybe we should on subjective-seeming questions that look like they can be answered by anybody. Thinking out loud here; definitely don't want a "rule".

Isaac Moses

2:49 AM

@MonicaCellio A faq post certainly couldn't hurt. Even better if we could get it linked to from judaism.stackexchange.com/help/answering

@MonicaCellio Right. So, when I was salvaging that question from abject subjectivity, I could have been just a bit more explicit, given the known danger.

@MonicaCellio, I did a minor edit to this one. I still don't know how many of the subjective answers we got would have been prevented.

... gotta go for now. I'll pop back in later.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses thanks for the help!

Seth J

3:04 AM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Did you make these up? Are they in use somewhere?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ make what up

Seth J

@IsaacMoses If we FAQ "sources" it won't likely help in a case like this one.

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob The 9 and the 7, or at least the 7.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ 2 - أ, ء looks like a mirrored 2
3 - ع looks like a mirrored 3
5 - ح, خ look like very similar to a 5 (خ is mostly replaced by kh, ch, or x, and since 7 is used for ح, one doesn't use the number 5 that often)
6 - ط looks like a deformed 6
7 - ح looks like a mirrored 7

Seth J

3:34 AM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob You didn't answer my question.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ regarding what?

@SethJ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_chat_alphabet#Comparison_table

@SethJ you got time now or are you busy?

Seth J

3:56 AM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob, thanks, that answered my question. Interesting. Well, most people here don't chat in Arabish. So, are we expected to conform our Hebrew transliteration to your Arabish chat standard? I think HaMo9i Me7avero 3alaw Hara2ayah - or the non-monetary equivalent - applies.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ hebrew and arabic transliteration is the same.

Seth J

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob but no, I don't have time to chat. I was heading to bed and I (ill-advisedly) logged back in just to check if I'd missed anything.

Except that it's not.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

it is

hHeth is a hHeth ayeen is an ayeen

might as well use the numbers unless you create a hebrew system for chatting

Seth J

No, perhaps it ought to be. But you oughtn't use numerals to transliterate sounds, either. So if we're already doing that which is unconventional or less ideal, the more widely accepted non-ideal is probably the ideal.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ so pronouncing a hHeith like a chaf is the ideal?

Seth J

4:00 AM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Not inherently, but being understood is.

نحن لسنا جميع الخبراء في اللغة العربية

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ so...create a hebrew system

:)

Seth J

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I don't have the luxury of time to do that, nor the expertise. Nor would most people follow. If I were to do that, perhaps I would mirror yours. But it requires consensus.

By more than just the MY community, btw.

and with that, good night.

:)

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ so then i will stick with #s for now :)

lailoh tov

Daniel

4:35 AM

@SethJ 7 does look like the medial form of ح as opposed to the isolated form

graphemica.com/%EF%BA%A4/glyphs/dejavu-sans-book

although i might use λ instead of 7

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses Done, but the formatting is cringeworthy and should be edited by someone.

0

Q: Mi Yodeya Referencer: Info, Links, and Requests

Several times, the community has discussed and requested an easier way to link to sources. So recently, with the help of Hashem yisborach, and @Menachem, I threw together a quick script to do just that. It links to Tanach and most of Talmud Bavli, and with the help of the community, we've added R...

msh210

6:45 AM

@MonicaCellio @IsaacMoses @doubleaa judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/13764/…

Daniel

What would be an appropriate gift to give a chosson teacher to thank him for his time and effort?

Seth J

12:24 PM

@Daniel, in that font, sure. That's not usually how it looks, though. Besides, when referencing the letter, the isolated one is used.

@Daniel, granted, this is informal chat "standard", but still.

To say that chat "standard" in a foreign (albeit semitic) language ought to be learned (and implicitly adopted) by everyone here is a bit unusual.

Seth J

2:38 PM

@Daniel Most people pay their teachers. So I don't really know how to answer that.

@HodofHod What does that mean? You have linked to every RaMBa"M? Thru Chabad or MM?

Seth J

3:53 PM

@msh210 you still think this isn't a comment rather than an answer?

2

A: Why do we think of the korban pesach as a sheep, not as a goat?

Many references to the korban pesach do refer to it as a goat, not a sheep. For instance, the mishna in Beitza (chapter 2, mishna 7) refers to a גדי מקולס (roast kid) that shouldn't be made on pesach since it would be too similar to the korban. Also, the goat in the song chad gadya presumably is...

Daniel

4:21 PM

@SethJ Why do you say that's not usually how it looks? I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it normally looks

@SethJ Ok, so what would be a normal amount to pay?

Seth J

4:51 PM

@Daniel I don't know; I think it's odd if they don't have a set price, but maybe I'm wrong.

@Daniel That font is a little ... rigid.

msh210

5:10 PM

@SethJ Not really. (Do you have any idea what I just said? :-) They tell new litigators not to ask witnesses questions with negatives, because "yes" or "no" is ambiguous. Anyway, what I meant was that) I kinda think it is a comment rather than an answer. What do you think?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@sethj I will be waiting for a hebrew version of chatting :)

msh210

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob W7IQ X^'

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@msh210 wa3leicham sholom

Seth J

5:57 PM

@msh210 I didn't realize you were an attorney.

(Or are you just precise?)

msh210

@SethJ I'm not.