V'dibarta Bam - 2013-06-27

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1:13 AM

Hey @IsaacMoses, got a sec?

Actually, I'll throw this out for anyone. I mentioned previously that I was throwing together a userscript to auto-link references in tanach. I'd like some feedback.

1: Am I the only who's going to be using this? This makes me hope not.

2: What kind of syntax would you like to see? Right now, I've got it like this: [ref:ber-2-5] [ref:sam1-4-2], etc.

(It'll accept multiple spellings, but right now it's limited to 3 characters. This can be easily extended to full words.)

3: Right now, it just inserts a bare url in the place of the matched syntax. Should I include a text reference, i.e., [ref:ber-2-5] becomes [Bereishis 2:5](http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8166#v5)?

(I suppose I could make it detect whether the [ref] is already included in a markdown link. I.e., check out this [pasuk]([ref:ber-2-5])would insert a bare link, but anything else would insert the location as the link text.

Thoughts? Requests? (I've got more questions, but I'll save them for now.)

1:43 AM

@HodofHod I think link text like you propose would be great. Your syntax looks fine to me too.

@Monica Thanks! I'm gonna go back and work on it some more. Anything youd like to add? A syntax for showing Rashi? For using mechon mamre?

2:09 AM

@Menachem See above. It's coming along nicely.

@HodofHod the two sites I reach for are mechon-mamre for just plain text and the Chabad site for Rashi, so if you gave me access to both of those I'd be delighted. Maybe [ref:ber-2-5] is the text and [rashi:ber-2-5] is the Rashi? That's extensible if somebody come along later to add some other commentary...

@MonicaCellio hmm, I like that syntax for Rashi. Are you saying [ref:..] would link to mechon mamre?

@HodofHod isn't that what's in the spreadsheet that you're harvesting, mechon-mamre links? I'm suggesting we build on prior work. :-)

@MonicaCellio No, they're chabad.org links.

@HodofHod oh! Silly me; I should have looked. (I was at work when I saw the initial announcement and Google Docs is blocked there, and then I forgot to follow up...) Any Hebrew + English that's generally accepted here as reliable is fine with me.

2:16 AM

@MonicaCellio Alrighty, then...

:D

Getting back to work.

@HodofHod thanks so much for doing this! And thanks again to @Menachem for compiling the data!

3:06 AM

@HodofHod: Nice. If you're using [ref:etc.] to become a link, you should probably always start with that. So if you want to add rashi, it could be something like: [ref:ber-2-5:rashi], or something like that.

Also, I created another form in the spreadsheet. This one is generated on the fly using just the page id as a base, and can optionally add rashi and verse anchor to url. It also informs you if you chose a chapter that doesn't exist

for some reason, I can't protect the cell with the formula right now (google docs is not letting me), but I'll protect it as soon as I'm able to

I was thinking that it might be nice to add the Mechon Mamre links as well, in another sheet

@MonicaCellio: no problem, check it out, it's starting to become useful

@Menachem I started using Mechon Mamre because it was the first site I found with Hebrew and English. I kept using it after finding the Chabad/Rashi site because I find MM's Hebrew easier to read. But either works just fine. Sometimes the translations are different, as previously noted; I can't really evaluate that.

@MonicaCellio I also used mechon mamre in the beginning, because the page loaded faster. Also, the naming convention for each page was logical, so it made it easier to jump directly to desired chapter and verse by manipulating the url. But I like the Rashi commentary that chabad.org supplies, although I wish they had the hebrew too.

@Menachem yeah, MM can't help with Rashi. Another thing about MM is that it'll give me the complete list of books up front, as opposed to having to click a couple more times on the Chabad site to get everything for one section of Tanakh only. If I want to compare passages in different books, MM is way easier.

I've also come across several mistakes in the hebrew on chabad.org. I report it to them and they're usually good about fixing it. (they still haven't fixed this one: chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16379/showrashi/true#v35 )

@MonicaCellio the "form" I setup in the spreadsheet makes this a lot easier

@Menachem oh ouch! Have you come across any in MM?

@Menachem yes, your spreadsheet is going to make this UI much easier. I was talking about the raw web sites. :-)

3:19 AM

@MonicaCellio not that I can remember

1 hour later…

4:29 AM

From wikipedia's article on neutering:

In 2007, the Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel Rabbi Shlomo Amar issued a ruling stating that it is permissible to have companion animals spayed or neutered on the basis of the Jewish mandate to prevent cruelty to animals.[68]

I cant seem to find this anywhere in the source they give- anyone know of this statement's validity?

Neutering, from the Latin neuter (of neither sex), is the removal of an animal's reproductive organ, either all of it or a considerably large part. The term is often used in reference to males whereas spaying is often reserved for females. Colloquially, both terms are often referred to as fixing. While technically called castration for males, in male horses, the process is referred to as gelding. Neutering is the most common sterilizing method in animals. In the United States, most humane societies, animal shelters and rescue groups urge pet owners to have their pets spayed or neutered to...

Charles Koppelman

4:54 AM

@Menachem I'd just be careful using [ref:Ber...], and instead maybe [tnk:Ber...]... or use the more standard [tnk:Gen]. This way tractates of mishnah and talmud don't get in the way cc: @HodOfHod

5:05 AM

@HodofHod I think you should start with English book names so it's usable by more people, instead of only Hebrew speakers and even then still having to remember how you personally chose to denote kamatz, shva na, ת רפה, etc.

@HodofHod, @MonicaCellio: I've now added Mechon-Mamre links as well

@Menachem thanks!

7 hours later…

12:27 PM

@Kidor I'm skeptical.

FWIW This is the revision where it was added in en.wikipedia.org/w/…

12:48 PM

You may want to request a modification of this feature:

17

Q: Do we want the citation tool from Math.SE?

Related: How can I cite a question in SE? Math.SE has a citation tool. Basically, if you click "share" on a post, there's a little "cite" link: Clicking that, you get: This lets one properly cite a Physics.SE post in a document by the attribution rules. Do we want this? While it may no...

discussion feature-request status-completed

Wait no, that does the opposite

Sorry :S

1 hour later…

2:03 PM

@ManishEarth Wow. Do you have stats on how often SE posts have been cited in published papers?

nope

But they may be citing it outside of papers too

lecture notes, websites, etc

:)

2:55 PM

@DoubleAA I've modified the matching from bibref.hebtools.com/biblebooks.txt so many different spellings should work.

3:44 PM

@SethJ, by that logic we should keep the curtain part there and reopen this as a separate question. — msh210 1 min ago

@msh210 that's why I asked.

4:03 PM

Side note to @msh210. This seems riddled with crazy commas. Whoever wrote this must have been hungry, overtired, and in bad need of some coffee. It's also possible he was writing one thing and edited it without paying close enough attention.

@msh210 the reason I think it might make sense to remove it is because, without the curtain, this would be identical to that - the light comes into the room and you don't see the source; with the curtain, the curtain (like the clouds) are the reason you don't see the source, of the light. Just illuminating the room, might not be good enough. You might need some object to have gotten in the way. If nothing got in the way, then if you weren't looking maybe we say that, since you could have seen it it's as if you had your eyes closed and missed it altogether. — Seth J 21 mins ago

@SethJ :-)

4:17 PM

Whoa. We just got hit with answer-vandalism.

judaism.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/5807

I've never seen that before. Kinda rude.

@MonicaCellio: Here's the response I got from Chabad.org, "Thank you very much for your note. The kri uksiv is not displaying due to an issue on our end. It is on our long to do list :)". The verse in question: chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16379/showrashi/true#v35 -- they made a correction, but further correction is still necessary. I let them know.

@SethJ I've seen it before, but not recently.

2 days ago, by Monica Cellio

@Daniel Did you just use an emoticon as terminal punctuation? :-)

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@msh210 lol :)

Sholom 3leicham a7eem

4:36 PM

@msh210 proper emoticon usage is not as simple as you might think. She was unaware of the rule that a ;) does not need punctuation following it, while :) does.

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob 4L3(|-|3/\/\ $|-|4L0/\/\

@Menachem Ah, so was I. Pardon me.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@msh210 why you do this :(?

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Do what?

@msh210 Genius!

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@msh210 I keel u

4:41 PM

Ok, 133t$p34k for everyone!

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Keel u in the face

@HodofHod Really weird: I Googled "b1ff converter online" and got no good results. (I then tried "leetspeak converter online" instead and got a bunch.)

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

3kool5skool

@msh210 Kids these days....

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob comments like this might be funny in your head, but since we're all (or mostly) strangers to one another, some might deem such comments as ranging from wayyy out of line to highly threatening.

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob This doesn't make it better.

4:46 PM

@msh210 I made that up

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ were no strangers to love. I mean were all yiddishe neshomos right?

@Menachem Yeah, I was kidding.

@msh210 me too, but in a breach of emoticon etiquette I forgot to add one. Then it got confusing

@SethJ I agree. @Mor, that we're all Yodeyans doesn't make us buddies, share a sense of humor, or necesarily want to spend time together. Don't try to play the "we're all Jews (so anything that looks obnoxious couldn't possibly have been)" card.

And just because some of us are comfortable speaking up (I do not feel threatened by you) doesn't mean everyone does.

@SethJ There was another a few hours before too.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

4:51 PM

@MonicaCellio right In the feels :(

@msh210 Is that Mori language, or is that just a regex?

:)

0

Q: Discussions about Healthy Diet

Do any early Posekim (from around 200 years ago and earlier) other than the Rambam discuss a good diet and healthy lifestyle?

sources-mekorot health-safety-shmira

Cholent might have been healthy in the shtetel where calories were hard to come by

Definitely not now, though

@Daniel Depends what's in it, I'd think.

A chulent with a plurality of beans, and with onion, water, spices, barley and/or potato, and a little meat, is not a bad meal with some vegetable side dish, I wouldn't think. (I am not a dietician. Or medical doctor. Or chef.)

@msh210 Sounds healthier than potato kugel (ingredients: oil, potato, salt, egg.)

@DoubleAA Switch egg and salt and you've even got the order right. ;-)

@msh210 beans and barley are really carb-heavy

Most cholents that I've come across are primarily barley-based

And they usually have a lot of salt

5:04 PM

@Daniel Yes. So is the human diet. That's how God made us. Beans also have a lot of protein, and a good proportion of their carbs are fiber.

@Daniel Oh, I usually don't put in barley at all -- or very little. Mine is usually mostly beans, and parve.

@Daniel That's true.

@msh210 Yours is probably better for you than most are, then :)

@msh210 And it's true that our diet needs a lot of carbs, but most people (especially Americans) eat way more carbs than they need in a day

@Daniel heh. I do enjoy red meat, but (a) I don't eat it much and (b) if I am going to eat it, I enjoy it more out of chulent than I enjoy the taste it adds to chulent, so why put it in?

@Daniel Yeah.

2 hours later…

7:11 PM

Update: The script is mostly operational. I'm having trouble with .submit() conflicts, but I hope to have those hammered out soon.

7:23 PM

@HodofHod Perhaps post an answer?

11

Q: Syntax for linking to sources

We've discussed adding link support for citations, so that someone could type, in a question or answer, some shorthand, and the server would expand it to a link to a specific page on mechon-mamre.org or e-daf.com or hebrewbooks.org or he.wikisource.org or wherever. That discussion has not yielde...

feature-request status-deferred hyperlinks citing-sources markdown

@Daniel You can do quinoa instead of barley.

@SethJ or rice. more protein.

@DoubleAA Rice has more protein than quinoa? I would have thought the opposite.

@SethJ i meant more than barley

@DoubleAA I probably will once it's done. Right now I'm stuck on this issue (the forms submit before the replacement happens). Once that's done, I have to throw a couple more things in before v1.0

7:27 PM

@DoubleAA Oh, for sure.

@DoubleAA prevention.com/whats-healthier-quinoa-or-brown-rice

@DoubleAA (In case you were wondering where I'd run off to there.)

8:23 PM

@HodofHod, did you remember that that would trigger a flag? :-)

@MonicaCellio All the comments?

@HodofHod yup. Not complaining -- I was just startled. :-) I mean, flags on meta?

@MonicaCellio Ha! I actually completely forgot/didn't know.

:D

Ok, I'm giving up on the submit way, and cheating by taking the focusout path.

But at least it works!

Update Very early rough draft is available.

Should work in Qs, As, and comments.

Does not trigger a preview update, so there's that issue. Does not add any link text, yet. No Rashi or Mechon Mamre yet either, this is really just a proof of concept, but hopefully it's still interesting.

If anyone wants it, let me know.

@HodofHod I was guessing "forgot", but maybe it didn't come up as much in beta?

@HodofHod woo hoo!

8:39 PM

@MonicaCellio Well, what was the flag? Excessive commenting, or excessive deleting? I recall getting a few excessive commenting flags. (I forgot the actual flag name)

8:52 PM

@HodofHod it was about the comments. Apparently the flag remains even after the comments are deleted. (There were no comments when I got there; had to look in the mod tools for 'em.)

Just added rashi. This is getting interesting.

@HodofHod it's neat to see how quickly you're managing to do this!

9:56 PM

Just added option to insert link text.

@MonicaCellio By putting off other things I should be doing :(

This is too interesting, though.

:)

@HodofHod yeah, I know that problem. Next week's leining isn't going to learn itself. :-)

10:45 PM

..and fixed the preview so it refreshes. Sounds like we're nearly ready for primetime!

11:07 PM

@HodofHod let us know when you need beta testers

@Menachem Currently typing up a syntax guide, and then it's ready.

!

11:49 PM

...and we're live!

github.com/HodofHod/SE-Modifications

@Menachem Ping!

@HodofHod cool, how do we use it? i.e. install it?

@Menachem What browser are you using?

@HodofHod chrome

chromium, actually

Download the file TanachReferencer.user.js

Open Chrome's extension tab and drag it in.

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