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12:55 AM
@DoubleAA @msh210 @HodofHod OK; will do
@DoubleAA Not sure it works that way. I think the ads may be stored semi-permanently in a separate place once they get enough votes
 
@IsaacMoses I'm not so sure. It's already gone from meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/ads/display/567
 
@DoubleAA Oh. Good point. I take that back. Whoever starred my comment, please unstar it.
 
1:08 AM
@Upvoter OK OK I'm full!!! Thank you!!!
 
0
Q: Name Mi Yodeya's chat room

Isaac MosesWe've discussed naming our chat room before, but never came to a conclusion. Let's do this again, with two changes: We now know that this site will be launched out of beta in about a week, B"H, under the name Mi Yodeya. A close-to-final draft of the design should be posted here on meta soon. Pl...

 
2:13 AM
@DoubleAA So nominate a new target. :-)
 
@HodofHod Here are some more good ones.
2
 
@DoubleAA I didn't mean to fish. I haven't been tracking our individual users enough to have a good sense of who's been overlooked or is near an important threshold. Any suggestions? (I usually surf by tags rather than users and would be happy to receive better guidance.)
 
@MonicaCellio I never thought you were intending that. But that doesn't affect the quality of your answers negatively. In fact, my knowing you weren't intending that shows just the opposite.
 
2:31 AM
@DoubleAA Thank you, and thanks also for giving me the idea to browse a different way for vote-worthy posts.
 
@DoubleAA ad sheyivlu sifsoschem m'lomar "dai!"
 
At Monica's suggestion, I will point out that our most active editor who won't have editing rights after graduation (2000 rep) AND who doesn't routinely throw away his rep as bounties is: Adam Mosheh.
(See if you can guess who was actually our most active editor under 2k!)
 
@DoubleAA How do you see how much eduting someone's done?
 
@IsaacMoses /users?tab=editors
 
2:38 AM
@DoubleAA @HodofHod thanks
 
@DoubleAA check out /users?tab=activity
hidden tab
 
@HodofHod Mod only. BUSTED!!
 
@HodofHod I just get the reputation display if I do that
 
@IsaacMoses Me too. What are you getting @HodofHod?
 
@IsaacMoses @DoubleAA Ahh, I see they changed it to ?tab=participation
 
2:48 AM
@HodofHod That's some weighted sum of the various kinds of activity?
 
@IsaacMoses Apparently
 
@HodofHod I get it too.
 
@DoubleAA And sit atop it! <applauds>
 
Wow, all sorts of interesting data I didn't know was available...
 
Then you probably havent seen the leagues, either
6
Q: What is the criteria used to sort the users in the "participation" page shown in the meta sites?

kiamlalunoIn any meta site for a Stack Exchange 2.0 site, there is a tab in the "users" page that shows the users basing on their participation. On the meta site for Drupal Answers, that page appears as in the following screenshot (I limited the screenshot to the first two lines). To make a comparison, ...

 
2:57 AM
 
@HodofHod When those came out, I deliberately didn't announce it here
 
@IsaacMoses sorry!!
 
@HodofHod :)
 
I just rediscovered them today, actually.
 
@HodofHod I just feel that sometimes, people worry too much about the points
5
 
2:59 AM
True
 
Wow. Yeah, it would be easy to get too wrapped up in the numbers by spending a lot of time there. I'm only paying attention now because a lot of people are about to lose a lot of privs.
 
... of course, it's easy for me to say "don't worry about points," never having had to earn my privileges
 
@IsaacMoses You will now. Better start campaigning...
But honestly folks, how could we not vote in @IsaacMoses?
 
@DoubleAA ... or contributing
@DoubleAA There are only so many slots
 
yeah, I don't think anyone is going to vote against you, @IsaacMoses. Unless Ben Masada comes back
 
3:05 AM
@HodofHod It's not a question of voting against; it's a question of voting for. I think everyone gets N votes.
... and there's one person whose vote can override all the others
 
@IsaacMoses Oh, really? Doesn't matter, you're still a shoo-in. Not to flatter too much, but...
 
I can't imagine @IsaacMoses not being a moderator.
 
@isaacmoses, I know, its just hard to imagine a j.se without eiz'l. IAE, then "the one with reb yoel on the board" sounds good. — HodofHod Dec 13 '11 at 20:15
 
The wierdest part about seeing IsaacMoses in chat is there's no diamond next to his name.
2
 
@MonicaCellio There are a bunch of people here, mods and not, who would do (and currently do) at least as good a job
 
3:08 AM
@IsaacMoses ...said Moses
 
Oh well.
7 hours ago, by Double AA
@HodofHod Careful! I don't want it all to be removed as spam voting.
 
@DoubleAA What happened?
 
@HodofHod -275
 
@DoubleAA Seriously??
 
@HodofHod It's public on my user page.
 
3:12 AM
<shakes fist at sky>
 
7 hours ago, by Double AA
@HodofHod Here are some good ones.
Or else I want my Extra Credit back :)
 
I didn't even give you that many votes! I ran out too fast!
 
@HodofHod Vram was at it tonight.
 
@DoubleAA Hey hey hey, that extra credit was totally unconnected to this.
 
@HodofHod I wouldn't have posted the 'thank you' pic.
 
3:16 AM
@DoubleAA What level are you trying to get to, anyway? You're past 10K and far from 20K
 
@IsaacMoses Nowhere in particular. It was really just a humorous response to HodofHod's comments here.
 
Jin
writing my design pitch draft..
always makes me nervous
 
@Jin yay!
 
@IsaacMoses It was starred and taken up by other people who were backreading.
 
@Jin It stinks!
 
3:19 AM
Feature request: Known users. Some kind of thing that recognizes that two users could not possibly be the same person, and prejudices the vote fraud algorithm to defend against that
 
@Jin There, now you've heard the worst you'll hear about it.
 
Jin
@IsaacMoses now i'm prepared for anything!
 
@HodofHod We might also not want a pair of actually distinct users to blindly upvote all of each other's stuff
 
@DoubleAA Argh! How frustrating!
 
Jin
Thank you all very much for helping me out in the chat. I feel more confident to present the designs to the broader community. Hopefully there won't be major design changes once I post it on Meta.
 
3:21 AM
@IsaacMoses Prejudice the algorithm, but not disable it
 
@HodofHod For all we know, such prejudice exists. They're never going to tell us exactly what's in that algorithm
 
@Jin thanks for sharing and chatting with us so much! Looking forward to the debut to the larger community!
Gotta drop off now (especially before my flaky internet connection tonight does it for me). See y'all tomorrow.
 
@Jin I share your confidence
@MonicaCellio You are willing to wait until tomorrow to see the draft?
 
@IsaacMoses true/
 
@IsaacMoses Not willing, but may be forced. I'm going to drop off of chat and go feed the cat and stuff, and check meta before retiring -- assuming Verizon can cough up the bits. :-)
Oh wait -- I have a phone! No, I do not have to wait to see it!
 
3:25 AM
Even I'm unwilling, although I should be in bed already. Got to get up early to give a shiur tomorrow.
 
@MonicaCellio Alright. (Oh yeah; it's later for you than it is for me.) Good night
@HodofHod What on?
 
If I didn't have to be somewhere at 8:30 I'd say "sleep is for the weak and unworthy", but... anyway, later!
 
@IsaacMoses Tanya
7:45
 
3:39 AM
btw @IsaacMoses ben just earned the 'self-learner' badge :D
 
Should we keep it open?
 
@DoubleAA what?
 
@IsaacMoses The newest question
@IsaacMoses I gave him the appropriate answer, even if I didn't source it. (If that matters)
 
@DoubleAA Why not? Tzeniut? Other than that consideration, it looks like a valid question
 
I was just asking per: "Please respect that in the Jewish tradition certain questions, especially certain questions relating to sexuality, are discussed only in private. Such questions will be closed or deleted at the discretion of the moderators or community." Better to make a decision quickly if one needs to be made.
I'm ok with leaving it.
 
3:47 AM
@DoubleAA I think I am too. The question doesn't go into unsavory details, and there's no reason to believe answers will
 
btw, the Baishan became a Loimed (a student)
3
 
@ShmuelBrin Are you choleik on chazal!?
 
@IsaacMoses whatever are you talking about? ;)
 
@HodofHod Never mind
 
3:59 AM
whoa!
 
@HodofHod jawbone'd
2
 
I'm getting some amnesia.
 
4:19 AM
@IsaacMoses ?
 
@msh210 got it in one
 
Baruch, welcome to Judaism.SE, and thanks very much for bringing your question here! Please consider registering your account, which will give you access to more of the site's features. — Isaac Moses 23 mins ago
I see what you did there...
@Jin, I have to go to bed!!
:D
 
11
Q: Welcoming new users

Isaac MosesSince the beginning of mi.yodeya, and continuing now on Judaism.SE, I've made it my practice to welcome new users. I'd like to make it clear that while I'm happy to continue doing this whenever I get the opportunity, anyone else who wants to is more than welcome to also do it (as some have). Her...

 
Jin
@HodofHod gn. it will be another hour or so before the post goes up. but it will go up tonight. i'm doing some last minute tweaks.
 
@Jin Aww, shucks. Ok, I'll see you all later!
 
4:51 AM
@ShmuelBrin What's the point? Anyone who can see the deleted post can see it's edit history too.
 
@DoubleAA not much, but @IsaacMoses does that sometimes for offensive posts
 
@ShmuelBrin Does what? Edits out the content? I think others have done that more than I have, FWIW. The point is to that the offensive stuff doesn't offend the eyes of those who can see deleted stuff, unless they choose to go digging.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:31 AM
0
Q: Design for Mi Yodeya

JinShalom! I'm Jin, I work on the designs for the Stack Exchange sites as they graduate from the beta phase. Each site will have its own unique theme that will reflect its topic and culture. However, all sites will share common elements so they feel like they're part of the Stack Exchange family. F...

 
 
9 hours later…
5:11 PM
@Jin, why aren't all SE employees automatically mods on every site? Because not every mod needs to deal with every site?
 
Jin
@HodofHod hmm i'm not sure to be honest. maybe it'd be confusing for the users?
 
@Jin I guess. But some are already (e.g. community managers, RChern, Robert C), and some (Peter Grace) are not. Strange
 
Jin
@HodofHod I think if every employee did have a diamond, it'd be pretty confusing. Maybe it makes sense to have the community team members to be mods since they deal with sites' maintenance more closely than the other employees.
 
Fair enough.
 
5:40 PM
Grrr... I missed the start again and no one elee started it either...
Begin Parashat Hashavua' Chat #20 - Achare-K'doshim / Emor 5772
Welcome to the chat, @MonicaCellio, @Alex, @HodofHod, @Jin, @ShmuelBrin, @IsaacMoses.
 
(I'm going to be in and out today; will try to keep up.)
 
Anyone have anything to start us off?
Okay... there seems to be some discrepancy between the order of things in the chumash and the actual crhonologcial order the kohen gadol did things on Yom Kipur. (And a dispute amongst rishonim as to what the discrepancy is exactly.) is there a reason the Torah didn't put the events in chronological order? Any conjectures, or anyone know?
 
@msh210 Torah Temimah says that it's because the Torah wanted to put together everything that the kohen gadol does in the white clothes.
And Malbim says the same thing.
 
@Alex that makes sense. The torah sometimes describes things out of order and sometimes it's for thematic groupings, though probably not always. But that's a good place to start.
 
@Alex, oh, thanks :-)
@MonicaCellio Any other examples off the top of your (or anyone's) head?
 
5:52 PM
@msh210 There's the fact that the Torah mentions Terach's (and Yitzchak's) deaths long before they actually happened, because it's finishing up with them and then going on to the next generation
 
@msh210 the Lamech story in B'reishit seems out of place. When did Mishpatim happen exactly? I know there are more but that's off the top of my head.
 
@Alex @MonicaCellio thanks
@MonicaCellio ...though the Lemech story happened when it happened, I think.
(4:18ff)
 
@msh210 but then we go back to Adam and Chava and their third son... but Lamech was several generations later.
(Lamech? Lemech? I've seen both.)
 
@msh210 According to Rashi, yes, because he says that this led to Adam getting back together with Chava and fathering Sheis. But I don't think everyone agrees to that; it might well have been some other time during the thousand-plus years until the flood.
 
@MonicaCellio right, true.
@Alex rght, I meant though that it occurs after his parents had him.
 
5:56 PM
@Alex oh, I didn't realize that. Though I know the lifespans overlapped way more than my instinct says and I'm often surprised by who was contemporary.
 
@MonicaCellio Lemech. Lamech at the end of a sentence
 
@msh210 thanks. (While we're off on this tangent, and what's with Bilaam/Balaam?)
 
@msh210 I think in the English versions they use "Lamech" consistently, though
 
@MonicaCellio Different transliterations?
@Alex Weird.
 
@MonicaCellio Also Miriam/Mary, Shimshon/Samson, etc.
 
5:58 PM
And while we're off on the tangent, is it Shim'on ben Shetach or ben Shatach? or ben Shetach except pausally and then Shatach? I've seen all three, I think (or at least the latter two)
@jake, welcome to the parsha chat, or whatever it's become. Sorry, I didn't see you walk in.
 
@msh210 Yeah, hi. I'm kinda busy with something else, so we'll see how much I can participate.
 
If we want to go back to the parsha (at least as a starting point): One thing that struck me reading this week (though it's all over the place, really): why do we get "speak to Aharon (and his sons) and all b'nei Yisrael"? Isn't that redundant? What is this repetition meant to teach us?
 
@MonicaCellio I'm pretty sure Rashi says, somewhere (@Alex?), that Moshe taught the mitzvos to Aharon, then the two of them to his sons and other leaders, and then all of them taught all the Jews. Or something like that: don't quote me on that exactly.
Anyone?
 
@msh210 Yeah, it's to Ex. 34:32 (quoting Eruvin 54a).
 
@msh210 so what about the cases where it's just "speak to b'nei yisrael"?
 
6:03 PM
I was wondering this week, actually, in relation to the arayos. We paskin that kiddushin is tofes only for chiyuvei kares, right? Doesn't this mean that between a Jew and a non-Jew, kiddushin does take affect, since it's only a lav?
@MonicaCellio, (Sorry to interrupt your question)
 
@jake b'seder
 
@MonicaCellio With the beginning of ch. 19, Rashi mentions that Moshe was to speak publicly to everyone at once (bypassing the normal order, I guess). Dunno about other cases.
 
@jake "is not tofes" you mean....
 
@Alex versus, e.g. 17:2, where we get the construction I mentioned. Maybe we only see that for matters that involve the kohanim somehow?
 
6:05 PM
@msh210 Yes, thank you.
@msh210 Too late to change it now.
 
@jake sorry for the beginner question, but tofes is...?
 
@MonicaCellio grabs hold (modern Hebrew, "catch" (like a ball)), or, here, latch onto
 
@MonicaCellio Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Maybe the kohanim particularly need to be warned to not let their friends convince them to offer their korbanos anywhere.
 
@MonicaCellio In this context, "takes affect"
Is it "effect"?
 
@jake Yes.
 
6:06 PM
@jake thanks.
 
@jake Really? Curious. I can if you like.
 
@jake A relationship between a Jew and a non-Jew is indeed subject to kares, although only midivrei kabbalah (based on a verse in Nach rather than in the Torah)
 
@msh210 Don't worry about it.
 
@Alex Is that a g'mara somewhere? That's it's a chiyuv kares?
 
@Alex Ahh, interesting. Because I remember reading in Rashi in Sanhedrin (link to follow) that it is only a lav and therefore kiddushin is not tofes.
 
@msh210 Sanhedrin 82a. Actually, more clearly: 82b, Rashi ד"ה הא אקריוה.
 
Second line in Rashi.
What's up with that?
 
It's derived from "Lo Sitchaten Bam" - There isn't a concept of marriage (According to R' Shimon) or from ואחר כן תבוא אליה ובעלתה (According to R' Yehuda) - After one does the process of Yefes Toar there is a concept of marriage, but beforehand there is no marriage.
 
@ShmuelBrin Thanks.
 
@Alex Thanks
 
6:13 PM
Speaking of things out of order, and of forbidden relations: how come the Torah puts ch. 19 (with its massive number of mitzvos, both interpersonal and between us and Hashem) between chs. 18 and 20, both of which talk about forbidden relations?
 
@ShmuelBrin Is that even according to the m"d that the pasuk is referring to all goyim (not just 7 umos)?
 
@jake IIUC, that's R' Shimon (who Darshens Taamei Dekrah)
 
@Alex I'd say maybe thematic again -- first all the isurin then all the on'shin -- but then 21 is isurin again.
 
@msh210 yeah, the overall ordering is puzzling.
 
@MonicaCellio As is the ordering within that chapter: respect parents, keep Shabbos, stay away from idols (so far three of the Ten Commandments, but out of order), rules for sacrifices, harvest gifts for the poor... and that's just the first ten verses or so!
 
6:26 PM
@Alex and this chapter, unlike the surrounding ones, is addressed to kol adat yisrael, not just yisrael. Significant?
 
@MonicaCellio Well, that's what leads Rashi to say that it was said at a public gathering, "because most of the fundamentals of Torah are included in it."
 
@Alex Sounds like something RSRH would talk about. I don't have him here, though.
 
@Alex ah. I was wondering if it meant "hey all, this is really important, women and kids too -- listen up". Versus just relying on the men to manage/teach?
 
@MonicaCellio Well, a public gathering may well include women and kids, but it means all the jews directly rather than Aharon first, etc., as described above. According to Rashi, anyway.
 
@MonicaCellio Very likely. Ex. 35 is also addressed to "kol adas Yisrael," and there we know that the women were heavily involved too.
@msh210 Indeed, the term "hakhel" is probably meant to suggest just that - like the septennial hakhel described in parshas Vayelech
 
6:29 PM
@Alex There it's "kol adas b'ne Yisrael".
@msh210 Oh, here, too.
 
@msh210 Which is interesting, then, because when it says "bnei Aharon" it's often explained to mean "but not the daughters," but that doesn't seem to be the case with (most) mentions of "bnei Yisrael."
 
@Alex What else would you call the Jews? B'ne Aharon could be called hakohanim. (Conjecture.)
 
@msh210 I wonder what the difference is between kol adat yisrael and kol adat b'nei yisrael.
 
@msh210 Just call them "Yisrael," maybe?
 
@MonicaCellio The former appears only in Ex 12.3 and Lv 4.13 (plus once in Y'hoshua), according to Google.
@Alex maybe.... do we find that appellation for the Jews anywhere in Chumash at all?
@msh210 In Lv 4.13 it refers to the sanhedrin, according to Rashi.
 
6:34 PM
@msh210 Sure, for example Deut. 1:1: אשר דבר משה אל כל ישראל.
 
@Alex yeah, thanks
 
Or 27:9: הסכת ושמע ישראל.
 
Or sh'ma :-)
Only in Dt?
 
@msh210 In direct address, maybe. In third person, there's for example Ex. 15:22: ויסע משה את ישראל.
Come to think of it, in our parshah (17:3, 8, 10) there's בית ישראל - which could also be a gender-neutral designation.
 
@Alex ah, thanks. So then, yes, it could easily say "daber el Yisrael", so your question about "v'lo b'nos" stands
@Alex I seem to recall someone's explaining why "bes Yisrael" is chosen in certain places. Someone modern, or fairly so
 
6:39 PM
@Alex these verses all also say ish
beit yisrael vs b'nei yisrael vs yisrael is an interesting difference.
 
@MonicaCellio ...vs "adas b'ne Yisrael" vs "adas Yisrael", and each of those with/without "kol" ahead of it
 
@msh210 I should check whether Malbim talks about any of these in Ayeles Hashachar
 
@msh210 yes, good point.
 
@Alex what is Ayeles Hashachar, please? I've heard of it but never seen it and don't know what it is.
 
@msh210 His introduction to the commentary on Vayikra (which is a supercommentary on Sifra, mostly). He lists there 613 rules of Hebrew grammar, syntax, use of extra words, etc., and how those are used by Chazal to derive halachos
 
6:44 PM
@Alex Cool. Thanks. I'll have to check it out some time (soon be"H).
 
@Alex sounds interesting. Thanks for explaining.
 
@msh210 @MonicaCellio Okay, one thing I see he says is that עדה means some kind of Sanhedrin (even just a local one), whereas עדת ישראל means the national Sanhedrin
 
@Alex So Ex 12.3 was relayed to the Sanhedrin (whatever that meant at the time) and, by them, to the Jews?
 
@Alex wow, that's a far cry from the common translation of "congregation".
 
@msh210 I guess so, the more so because they'd have to supervise and make sure that everyone is doing it right
 
6:49 PM
@Alex No more so than any other mitzva afaict. ?
 
@MonicaCellio Right, he says that that's the difference between kahal and edah: a kahal is just a gathering of people, an edah is a gathering at a specific time and with a specific agenda
@msh210 Dunno, but maybe because this was the first time they were going to be doing it?
 
@Alex eidah, like in eid, who testifies before a court? Versus kahal which is just a group?
 
@MonicaCellio Actually, he derives edah from "yaad" (same root as "moed"). "Eid" sounds like it might be a different root, but I don't know.
 
@Alex ah, ok -- I don't know the root for eid, and with only two letters present it's hard for me to guess. (Dictionaries are at home; I'm not.)
 
@Alex Doubtless RSRH would relate them somehow.
...as perhaps would the two-letter-root proponents
 
7:01 PM
I think I'm going to have to take off from our "edah" here for now, and get back to work. Thanks, @msh210, @MonicaCellio, @jake and @ShmuelBrin for an interetsting discussion, as always!
 
Thanks all; I was just typing that I need to drop off too.
 
Oh, sorry, I missed the end time too, didn't I.
End of Parashat Hashavua' chat. There we go. :-)
@DoubleAA It is blue, though, indicating he's a diamond mod on some SE site.
 
8:01 PM
0
Q: Adding to a bounty

Gershon GoldSuppose someone offers a bounty and i want to increase that bounty - is there a way to do that? If not is it possible to set it up that others can increase a bounty.

 
 
2 hours later…
9:31 PM
@msh210 As are you. Good to know.
 
9:55 PM
2
Q: The Privilege Page should show Rep Requirements for Post-Beta

yydlThere's a really informative page that anyone can visit describing the various levels of reputation along with the benefits conferred by reaching each milestone. Currently, because we are in beta, the reputation required is reduced and those numbers are correctly shown. However, we are now fast ...

 
 
1 hour later…
10:57 PM
@DoubleAA Thank you for that!!
Incidentally, you couldn't have picked a better answer to give that to.
That was one of the only answers where I knew exactly where to find the answer.
 
11:19 PM
@Jin you around?
 

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