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4:48 PM
1
Q: merge "fasting" and "fast-days" tags?

Monica Celliofast-days has 41 questions; fasting has three. The three don't seem fundamentally different; they are not, for example, about tips for overcoming the physical difficulties of a fast. (There's one of those in fast-days, by the way.) Is there any reason these tags shouldn't be merged?

 
@msh210: why the apostrophe in this title? judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/863/…
 
5:51 PM
@Menachem 'Cause I'm a stickler.
 
6:15 PM
Posted by Lauren Gundrum on January 5th, 2012

CHAOS has been searching for the perfect way to promote activity on our sites for a while now. After all, before you can try to recruit new users, you need to engage your existing community. Since we’re a network of Q&A websites, a natural place to start is having question-asking contests. Some of our contests have been more successful than others, but it seems like we’ve finally found one that works:

What: Hot Topic of the Week

How it works: Pick a topic of the week, and enter everyone who asks a question related to that topic into a random drawing to win a prize. The number of entries a person gets is equal to the number of questions they ask about the topic of the week. …

 
6:26 PM
@msh210 I may be missing it, but I don't see how that link explains why you added the apostrophe.
 
@StackExchange Very interesting. Conceptually, our topic challenge could be adapted to this sort of contest simply by adding the drawing and prize. Should we ask for that? I'm a little apprehensive about an extrinsic motivation to ask more questions prompting more low-quality questions.
 
@IsaacMoses See the comment under the blog post.
 
Implementation note: On Literature and Philosophy, but not on Android, they seem to be administering this by repeatedly editing one meta post. I don't think I like that strategy, since it doesn't allow for archiving lists of questions, etc.
@msh210 You mean mine?
 
@Menachem The apostrophe is to make the term "bad things" possessive (genitive). That's because "happening" is the gerund. The page I linked to explains the use of the possessive before a gerund.
@IsaacMoses Indeed. I had read it but not its metadata (authorship).
 
@msh210 :) Why say something in only one conversation when you can use the same words in more than one?
 
@msh210 I'm particularly interested in your opinion, as current topic challenge administrator, of whether we should ask for prizes for ours. It seems to me like the annual expense would come to ~$1-2K. I don't know if they'd grant us dedicated funds for that or divert the budget that's been offered for advertising, etc.
 
@IsaacMoses I was thinking off the bat that the expenses would be more like $520 a year if we do it.
 
@msh210 Setting the max prize value at $10? The sites doing this seem to be using limits of $50 (the two betas) or $100 (Android).
 
@msh210 They bumped it up the following week meta.android.stackexchange.com/questions/784/its-tablet-week
 
6:39 PM
Oh, I see, they upped it to $100 the following week. I wonder why.
I'm going to their chat room to ask.
 
@msh210 Maybe there aren't enough good Android accessories that cost less than $50
 
@msh210 Oh, it's dead.
 
@IsaacMoses haha see latest blog post: blog.stackoverflow.com/2012/01/…
 
@Neal Scroll up, man
 
@IsaacMoses :-P
 
6:45 PM
@IsaacMoses One issue is labor: someone will have to start and end the contest at set times (instead of at loosely set times like now) and count posts. Incidentally, I think only questions with a net vote count >0 should count.
 
@msh210 Yup. It seems to me that Lauren of CHAOS is running the other contests herself. >0 does sound like a good standard; it's what's used to determine if a question is "answered." I might even recommend giving one entry per net score to really incentivize quality.
 
@IsaacMoses Or three entries if the score is >0 and one additional per net vote (if it's >0), maybe....
 
An advantage of having SE Staff run the contest (besides labor) is that local mods can then participate without appearance of impropriety. A disadvantage is that then, topics should probably either be chosen arbitrarily or based on a strict formula (e.g. oldest, highest-voted unused), taking away the ability to make, e.g. calendar-based special picks.
 
@IsaacMoses The disadvantage you mention (a) doesn't seem terrible and (b) exists as soon as prizes are offered, even if we run the contest ourselves.
 
@msh210 The less complicated the formula, the easier to implement.
 
6:54 PM
@IsaacMoses True. :-) But giving some score irrespective of votes opens the contest to those who ask late in the week.
 
@msh210 b) If we recuse ourselves from participation, I don't see why we couldn't choose topics based on our own ideas of which would be most useful to the community when.
@msh210 That's an important point.
 
@IsaacMoses I suppose so. OTOH if we choose topics objectively, there's no real reason we can't participate.
 
@msh210 I suppose tallying is objective as well, but I think it'd still look weird to administer a contest you're in. It'd be like having a political candidate be in charge of counting the ballots - someone else can always recount, but it just looks wrong. The random draw, however, is not objective.
 
@lauren The conversation we're amid here, about weekly topic contests, may be of interest to you. I mean, never mind possible implementation on our site: some of the ideas we've mentioned may be good for other sites and thus of interest to you.
 
@msh210 True measure of worth to the site: Come back a year later, and count net score as well as views.
 
7:00 PM
@IsaacMoses Well, if it is random, it's objective. I gather you mean people might suspect it's rigged?
@IsaacMoses True. We can do that. Post now, win later. No one will enter, and it'd be a pain to administer.
 
@msh210 If the public has access to the random draw mechanism, it's objective. Otherwise, it's effectively subjective. And yes, if I won a draw that I drew myself when no one was looking, people would naturally suspect that I just chose to win.
@msh210 True. Just theorizing.
 
@IsaacMoses Any way to publish the random draw mechanism while keeping it random (or semirandom, best you can do on a computer)?
Or we can simply close it to mods. :-)
 
@msh210 e.g. Use the day's DJIA closing value, mod the number of entries.
... with some formula for ordering the entries.
 
@IsaacMoses Oh, nice. The floor (integral part), that is. Order of entries can be timestamp of being posted.
 
@msh210 The bottom line is that it can be made transparent, objective, and fair, but it could be a lot of work.
@msh210 Acutally, I might take the floor of it multiplied by 100. The integral part may not vary randomly enough from day to day.
... it could be possible to publicly semi-automate using a GDocs spreadsheet.
 
7:15 PM
@IsaacMoses DJIA is easy. Putting the questions in order, less so. And there are several other new steps (counting timely votes, etc.). So the end result is, since you asked for my view as current topic guy, I don't think I will do it myself, though I'd be glad to see it done and to do part of it.
 
@msh210 Fair enough
 
7:38 PM
(Reflecting on the fourth comment to the blog post): Both Literature and Philosophy have many fewer questions and visits per day than we do. Android has many more.
We're #3 for new meta posts (per 100 days, it looks like)!
 
@IsaacMoses What about questions per user who can vote to close?
 
@msh210 Not sure what you mean
 
@IsaacMoses 2 weeks I think.
 
@msh210 Our count is 89. You have to go back to Sep. 27th to count that many.
 
@IsaacMoses You said Android has many more questions per day. But if they have more closers, then they can moderate new questions as needed.
@IsaacMoses Oh, I was going by the tooltip (mouseover text) on the number of new meta posts on that page.
 
7:44 PM
@msh210 Oh, I see. I'm sure they have quite a few.
@msh210 Oh, it's questions and answers
We have more meta posts in the last two weeks than some sites that get ~10X as many main questions as we do. Is this a sign of illness on our part?
 
@IsaacMoses Yes: 89 ago from now (#656) was #567, Dec. 22.
@IsaacMoses We're too meta-y? Maybe so. Apples to apples, though: compare to others in public beta. (Even that is not quite apples to apples, as most sites didn't start as 1.0)
 
@msh210 Maybe observant Jews just like to talk about rules more than the general population does (even more than techies do)
 
Wow. SO has 3336 questions/day. That's... crazy.
 
@msh210 You can see how their moderation issues could be qualitatively different from those of the SEs.
 
@IsaacMoses Ja.
 
7:54 PM
Just realized that this question may answer itself.
Hi, @Lauren.
 
@IsaacMoses hi
thanks for linking me in
 
@IsaacMoses Eh?
 
looking at the comments on the blog right now
 
@Lauren That was @msh210
 
@Lauren, welcome.
 
7:55 PM
@msh210 OK, not precisely that, but it's an example of meta-metaness.
 
@IsaacMoses Oh, got it. Yes, indeed.
 
@Lauren You may also be interested in a bunch of the conversation above, from here down.
 
@IsaacMoses cool thanks, I'll take a look
 
@Lauren Thanks for the blog post, BTW. Definitely food for thought.
 
I thought it was worth sharing since we've run the contest on several sites now
however, if your weekly topic challenge gets a lot of activity without a prize, then there might not be any reason to introduce one
 
7:59 PM
@Lauren My impression -- unsupported by statistics, which I haven't looked at -- is that it got more good, new questions when we were advertising it with a site banner. (Something of a sore point here. ;-))
 
@msh210 Not quite enough weeks to tell yet. The first post-banner week, the topic was Chanuka, which got lots of entries because it was seasonal. The next couple did have many fewer than in some previous weeks.
We only recently introduced the community promotion ad for this.
 
@msh210 you mean with a system message?
 
@Lauren Exactly. (Forgot the term for it.)
@Lauren, incidentally, why don't you have a psi after your handle?
 
@msh210 we took them off a while ago
there's a meta stackoverflow post about it
22
Q: Did everyone on CHAOS get fired or something? What happened to their pitchforks?

LauraI noticed that some members of CHAOS are now parading around the network without "pitchforks" in their display names: What happened? Did they get demoted?

anyway i'm reading the discussion about how to rework the contest and you all have some interesting points
like playing with how many entries a question gets based on votes
we purposely didn't want to involve votes because of reasons I've already mentioned, but if it's not a one to one ratio of votes to entries it might be interesting to try
not sure how that would work
 
@Lauren If the contests aren't causing quality problems, as you've indicated in your blog comment response, then the added complication of counting votes seems unnecessary. I do like the idea of requiring a positive score (rather than non-negative, as you're currently doing), as an indication that someone found the question valuable.
 
8:12 PM
@IsaacMoses What he said.
@Lauren Oh, I see. Thanks.
 
@IsaacMoses that's a good point
i think the rationale for using non-negative is that the first couple sites we ran it on don''t have very much activity, so it might take a while for someone to vote questions up
but on sites that have more visits each day that woudl probably be fine
 
 
1 hour later…
9:43 PM
@HodofHod That page is an advertisement for a book. Do you mean that the book gives halachic reasons not to trim a beard?
Oh, I do see that that page mentions "The Response of the Minchas Elozor [of Munkatch] zt’l concerning a Rov who challenged the opinion of the Tzemach Tzedek zt’l regarding The Halachic Prohibition Of Cutting The Beard With A Scissors".
...which cites Minchas El'azar, vol. 2, no. 48.
...which is too long for me to read now.
 

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