TeX, LaTeX and Friends

daleif

8:20 AM

The font I showed earlier is uppercase only and when you ask for a font size of, say, 1cm the chars are exactly 1cm tall. Which is good and bad(?). Is there a term for such fonts? They are decorative so the fact that their size does not have as "normal" are expected

TeXnician

@daleif Display font or titling font (wikipedia) is what I would use for those.

Jasper Habicht

@daleif It is kind of a special form of a unicial font. But I think neither "unicial" or "display" necessarily refer to the font size aspect. Maybe display font with unified/standardized height? I am unsure whether there exists such a term acutally.

David Carlisle

9:33 AM

@JasperHabicht I think the term is "why are you using a font not picture mode?" :-)

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Jasper Habicht

@DavidCarlisle "why are you using a font not =picture mode= l3draw?"

David Carlisle

@JasperHabicht ~~picture mode~~

Jasper Habicht

strike through in chat?

:65266832 nevermind. too late now to edit anyways =D

David Carlisle

@JasperHabicht for such important issues you could summon Joseph to use his super powers

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Jasper Habicht

~~strike through~~

Joseph Wright

9:49 AM

@JasperHabicht Nah

samcarter

10:42 AM

Shall I tell fosstodon.org/@[email protected]/… that the secret is a duck at lunchtime and not a goat at midnight?

Skillmon

@samcarter wait, you also always eat a duck at lunchtime?

samcarter

@Skillmon Of course not. If I would eat ducks at lunchtime, I'd write tons of bug-free packages and life would be boring because all latex problems would be solved.

3

TeXnician

@samcarter Don't worry, there would still be users so you would always have problem generators at least ;)

samcarter

@TeXnician That's a nice term for users! I have to remember it!

Skillmon

11:22 AM

@samcarter it's the reason why :D macros are happy macros, they don't have to face the user.

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Jasper Habicht

11:35 AM

@Skillmon I try to use :NoT macros (and the Dutch/German equivalent :Nee macros) as often as possible!

Skillmon

12:01 PM

@JasperHabicht we need j-type expansion for our scandinavian friends!

2

Paulo Cereda

1:05 PM

@Skillmon LOL

David Carlisle

1:56 PM

@mickep progress (in some direction) on arxiv mathml:-)

mickep

2:16 PM

@DavidCarlisle Oh my. That is a lot of crap.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle -?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright github.com/arXiv/html_feedback/issues/… (which I opened after comments from @mickep here)

mickep

(crap in the generated files...)

@DavidCarlisle sorry if they now get mad at you. But the funny thing is that the authors do not seem to agree on the usefulness either, so...

David Carlisle

@mickep I left a comment

mickep

@DavidCarlisle A good one.

David Carlisle

2:31 PM

@mickep Bruce and deyan will be on the mathml zoom this evening:-)

daleif

2:46 PM

How different is the font loading in xelatex compared to lualatex when using fontspec? My code works perfectly under lualatex, as soon as I switch to xelatex it seems to be using a map file what is only made for pdflatex (as this particular font needs re-encoding in order to be used with pdflatex).

Joseph Wright

@daleif 'Totally different'

daleif

Hmm, I might want to ignore it. I see no reason to support it then.

I get a lot of
Missing character: There is no (U+0020) in font [AULogoRegular.ttf]/OT!
Missing character: There is no (U+0020) in font [AULogoRegular.ttf]/OT!
Missing character: There is no (U+0020) in font [AULogoRegular.ttf]/OT:langua
Missing character: There is no (U+0020) in font [AULogoRegular.ttf]/OT:language=dflt;!
Missing character: There is no (U+0020) in font [AULogoRegular.ttf]/OT:langua
Missing character: There is no (U+0020) in font [AULogoRegular.ttf]/OT:language=dflt;!

Ulrike Fischer

@daleif well a normal opentype font should work quite similar, but if it finds something for pdftex that can confuse xetex. But you should be able to exclude folders so that xetex doesn't see them.

daleif

@UlrikeFischer here I'm actually trying the support I made to give a path option for it to load the ttf file from that folder (was playing with overleaf). Works just fine with lualatex, but on overleaf the chars it returns are not correct it seems.

So wanted to test it locally but there the map file I added for pdflatex interfers. I'd say not worth it.

mickep

@DavidCarlisle Oh, you can broadcast it on youtube. :)

daleif

2:53 PM

Isn't \symbol{61490} supported on XeLaTeX?

David Carlisle

@daleif yes but you need a suitable font

daleif

@DavidCarlisle defined as?

David Carlisle

@daleif it's just \char so you get Missing character: There is no  (U+F032) in font [lmroman10-regular]:mapping=tex-text;!

Ulrike Fischer

@daleif doesn't looks like a normal unicode char. Is that something in the private area?

daleif

@DavidCarlisle It was suitable font I was refering to.

David Carlisle

2:57 PM

@daleif it's private use area so hard to say some fonts may have a glyph there but no standard

daleif

@DavidCarlisle yes, this font only have 4 slots all in the private area. Under pdflatex I re-encode to bring them down to A-D and define macros that returns it under this font. Under fontspec it is just fx \symbol{61490} in that font. But that does not seem to work correctly under xelatex.

Again too mush hassle, users should use lualatex anywas if they want something modern.

Ulrike Fischer

@daleif why don't you use everywhere the pdflatex setup?

David Carlisle

@daleif you can/should access the glyphs by name rather than private use slots?

daleif

@UlrikeFischer I though it was better to use the fontspec setup instead of "strange" solutions.

@DavidCarlisle is that also \symbol? I have the names in the re-enc file. They are "strange"

@UlrikeFischer also to avoid overhead from the stuff that autoinst generates

Ulrike Fischer

@daleif but didn't have to do it for pdflatex anyway?

David Carlisle

3:08 PM

@daleif no \XeTeXglyphname and friends

daleif

@UlrikeFischer I need pdflatex support as it is the most used engine. Users expect it to work.

It keeps complaining about a missing U+0020, yes, there is no space slot in this font. Blame those who made it.

Ulrike Fischer

@daleif yes, that is fine. But why don't you reuse this support? I mean if the symbols work in pdflatex they should work in the other engines in the same way too. After all both lualatex and xelatex work fine with legacy math fonts or wasy etc.

daleif

Wait a minute, am I missing a ts1...fd file?

David Carlisle

@daleif only if you have a ts1 encoded font

daleif

@DavidCarlisle No idea what this is coded as. Only that I used a custom encoding for pdflatex that works. But does not for xelatex or lualatex (not using fontspec in this test)

As mentioned the font only have four slots in the private area. Nothing else.

I think I'll just go with what I have for now, drop xelatex until I have time again. Is wasting too much time on this.

Felix Maldonado

5:58 PM

do you guys think I would still be acceptable to use STIX two for mathematics, as opposed to New Computer Modern? Has NCW moder superseded stix in support for characters in any meaningful capacity?

Stix was last updated like 3 or 4 years ago?

But NCM math was last updated on January this year

Jasper Habicht

6:16 PM

@FelixMaldonado First of all, they are different fonts. So you might want to choose one because the shapes better fit those of the text body font. I would argue that both have a very large coverage of characters and only in edge cases, you might find that STIX lacks a symbol. But even if this is the case, you can still get the missing symbol from another font anyways.

mickep

7:38 PM

@FelixMaldonado What symbols do you miss from stixtwo?

David Carlisle

8:03 PM

@FelixMaldonado back to asking "do you prefer red or blue" questions...

mickep

@DavidCarlisle Anything fun coming out of tonight's ml meeting?

David Carlisle

@FelixMaldonado there have hardly been any changes to the Unicode Math blocks since Unicode 3.2 in 2002, so there is no particular reason to expect any changes to a math font. Obviously a new font is new but why would you expect an existing font to change?

@mickep a whole hour of Chemistry I'm taking over from @JosephWright as the local chemist

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Good plan

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I have a Green Book meeting on Monday evening ... you could join ;)

mickep

8:08 PM

@DavidCarlisle Oh, exciting!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright we even got on to having to use 0 or \circ as the plimsoll symbol wasn't commonly available....

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle Did you say 'Ah, now there's a thing ...'?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright Neil was there...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle That probably helped :)

@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle tex.stackexchange.com/questions/711894/… - l3sys-query again ;)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes

Joseph Wright

8:18 PM

@DavidCarlisle No one answered my team list email ....

@DavidCarlisle ... and we ran out of time at the meeting with Frank's 'quick' update :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes I thought the email was for people who hadn't chatted here first, and as you say we didn't get that item.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Fair enough - main question is a new repo or not

David Carlisle

@JosephWright and I just checked I did reply, wth lots of interesting file names:-) separate repo under latex3, I think

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle You did that, true :)

David Carlisle

8:35 PM

It is therefore
<em>required</em> that any binary distribution of e-TeX be
accompanied by a clear statement that the definitive sources
for e-TeX are available free-of-charge at the
<a href="http://www.rhbnc.ac.uk/e-TeX/">e-TeX reference site</a>

@JosephWright tried that recently ^^^ ?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Oops

Jasper Habicht

9:48 PM

@JosephWright Is there a command to extract the x or y coordinate from a point?

Or is there in expl syntax a way to get one item from a tuple?

Joseph Wright

@JasperHabicht I mention that in the sources - just use a delimited macro

Jasper Habicht

It seems that the tuple stuff is not completely finished if I understand the roadmap in the interfaces pdf correctly

Joseph Wright

@JasperHabicht In the sources I said:

%   \item \cs{pgfextractx}, \cs{pgfextracty}: Available by applying
%     \cs{use_i:nn}/\cs{use_ii:nn} or similar to the \texttt{e}-type
%     expansion of a point expression.

@JasperHabicht Bruno basically bunged it in for l3draw, so quite possibly

Jasper Habicht

@JosephWright Wait, I don't get this. I tought a point is just a tuple?

Joseph Wright

@JasperHabicht It is: I mean that as you can get (x,y) by expansion, there's no need (in my mind) for a dedicated function

Jasper Habicht

10:04 PM

@JosephWright Maybe, but I have to admit, that I don't quite understand how I should apply \use_i:nn to (x,y) ... probably just me not understanding how these tuples work

Joseph Wright

@JasperHabicht I said 'or similar' ;) You can easily make something 'locally' was really the point

Jasper Habicht

\clist_item:en would work to grab items from tuples, or is this a bad idea?

Joseph Wright

@JasperHabicht Sounds reasonable, yes

Alan Munn

Marriage is like expensive git: commit, merge, then resolve conflicts constantly.

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Not my experience, but I thought it was pretty funny.

AlMa1r

10:58 PM

Btw., whoever downvoted tex.stackexchange.com/questions/711670 for no good reason, he/she is kindly advised to vent his/her rage here. And drink milk — that helps.

Btw., whoever upvoted tex.stackexchange.com/questions/711670 for whatever reason just now: thanks!

David Carlisle

@AlMa1r downvoter unlikely to be here:-) So have you put my answer in to production, I'm sure it's a useful bibtex style?

Ulrike Fischer

11:19 PM

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^^^ tomorrow's T-shirt ...

AlMa1r

11:45 PM

@DavidCarlisle “Who cares what year or by who, this was written in November” made me smile; thanks for that! In this sense, it was useful! Would you like your answer to be checkmarked? (I refrain from saying “tick” because a tick is also an animal.)

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