TeX, LaTeX and Friends

barbara beeton

1:44 AM

@DavidCarlisle -- Thanks for the infp that the Community bot will close a question if the author agrees with a third-party reason. I didn't know that, But really, the example you pointed at wasn't relevant. (I easily found the better one in the "Often referenced ..." pile. You should have looked there.) But unless the OP removes the check, that puts me back in possible palindrome territory. Oh, the things one must do ...!

cfr

5:30 AM

@barbarabeeton Do you happen to know why Knuth uses a ‘ in code in place of a backtick in the TeXBook? What makes it so irritating is that everything else is so precise.

Skillmon

7:49 AM

@cfr that's just the glyph on that character slot in CM.

David Carlisle

9:21 AM

@cfr because it's set with tex?

Paulo Cereda

10:29 AM

theverge.com/2023/11/28/23979595/…

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda duck.meme is available for a bargain £13,325.61

Rmano

10:56 AM

@DavidCarlisle but... "roasted-duck.meme € 29,65 /Year" ;-P

David Carlisle

11:17 AM

@Rmano in your comment on the site, didn't you mean \label{sec:explaining-duck-eating} for a section maybe titled "The pros and cons of eating wild ducks with bread". ?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@Rmano oh no

Skillmon

@egreg thanks for the elongated answer, I started getting tired from saying that the tokenisation will not see the space as it's removed by the input routine... :)

David Carlisle

@Skillmon there are a lot of texbook excercises still to go :(

Skillmon

11:34 AM

@DavidCarlisle yes, I wonder whether OP has the right approach to learning TeX (in particular whether the introduction to the doublebend paragraphs was read and understood)

Paulo Cereda

3

origami is so easy

Paulo Cereda

11:56 AM

@JosephWright bring L3 to Gitlab: news.itsfoss.com/microsoft-github-open-source-code :)

egreg

1:18 PM

@Skillmon No, he/she hasn't. :-(

daleif

1:42 PM

Here is an interesting one we found trying to debug a journal submission:
\documentclass{article}
\makeatletter
\g@addto@macro\bfseries{\boldmath}
\makeatother
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{refcheck}
\begin{document}
\begin{equation*}
AAA\leftarrow\text{normal math size}
\end{equation*}
\begin{equation}
AAA\leftarrow\text{small math font, why?}
\end{equation}
\bfseries a $x^2$
\end{document}

Anyone able to explain why \g@addto@macro\bfseries{\boldmath} plus the refcheck package makes the math font of equation smaller?

David Carlisle

1:56 PM

you are doing \bfseries in the second equation for the (1) and after the g@addto@macro that means you are doing \boldmath so switching all the math fonts within the $$ or equation which is probably rather unstable. I didn't test exactly what fonts didn't get reset but ...

@daleif actually bold ? not bold (1) but same issue

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{refcheck}

\makeatletter
\g@addto@macro\bfseries{\boldmath}
\def\unl@bld@mark{{\mark@size\textup{\{\let\boldmath\relax\textbf{?}\}}}}
\makeatother
\usepackage{amsmath}

\begin{document}


\begin{equation*}
AAA\leftarrow\text{normal math size}
\end{equation*}
\begin{equation}
AAA\leftarrow\text{small math font, why?}
\end{equation}
\bfseries a $x^2$
\end{document}

@daleif ^

Ulrike Fischer

2:27 PM

@DavidCarlisle and how do one get the effect without refcheck?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I'm not sure I understand: without refcheck there's no bold ?

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle yes, but simply adding some bold e.g. \mbox{\textbf{blub}} doesn't change the font size. So what is doing refcheck additionally?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer it's happening inside \eqno so the weird not really display math bit of displaymath, I was really hoping to avoid tracing exactllt where it goes wrong

barbara beeton

2:42 PM

@cfr -- This is just a wild guess. There's no backtick in the cmtt font, although there is a grave accent. Look at the font table on page 425. He needed open and close quotes in verbatim contexts, and since the keyboard backtick is (in my experience) normally used for the open quote, that probably seemed both natural and convenient. (It certainly would have simplified the input of the TeXbook.) Admittedly, I wasn't familiar with any other use of a backtick before learning TeX.

Ulrich Diez

I would like to become more familiar with the token library of the Lua backend of LuaTeX.

My question:

Has anyone written a routine that reads a (brace balanced) token list from the TeX frontend and returns an output to the TeX frontend, from which you can see for each of token of the list what properties it has (control-sequence token, character token, if applicable: category code and character code, implicit or explicit character token, active character token, defined/undefined, ...) ?

I think I saw an article about this in tugboat, but I don't recall exactly any more.

Joseph Wright

@UlrichDiez \tl_analysis_show:n?

Ulrich Diez

@JosephWright Thanks. ;-)

mickep

3:58 PM

Tip of the day: If you want to have some detailed info about the fonts in your pdf, run mtxrun --script pdf --fonts file.pdf.

4

mtx-pdf         | id        basefont                           encoding      subtype   unicode   characters
mtx-pdf         |
mtx-pdf         | F1        GDEHGD+LatinModernMath-Regular     no encoding   Type0     unicode   ! + , . 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : < = > ? A D I R a c e f g h i l m n o p r s t u x ° ± × ć ̂ ̃ ̅ Δ Φ Ψ Ω … ′ ″ ℂ ℎ ℕ ℚ ℝ ℤ → ↦ ∈ ∉ ∋ ∑ − ∓ ∞ ∫ ∬ ∶ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ⋅ ⟹ ⟺
mtx-pdf         | F2        KXHYKN+LMRoman10-Regular           no encoding   Type0     unicode   SPACE ! ' ( ) , - . / 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; ? A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P R S T U V W Y a b c d e f g h i j k l m…

^ Example output. One get the fonts, and what characters are used.

(Add --detail if you dare.)

Skillmon

@mickep is that like \tracingall?

mickep

@Skillmon Do you dare? :P

Skillmon

@mickep not on my own PC. (oh, that's ambiguous; I meant I'm currently not on my own PC, so can't)

mickep

@Skillmon Oh, I see. You get more details.

Skillmon

@mickep I guessed as much :P

mickep

4:09 PM

@Skillmon You essentially get code points. I think you can specify pages as well, but not sure.

Skillmon

4:40 PM

We got a new sock: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/702636/…

Jasper Habicht

5:41 PM

@Skillmon But even if it is a sock, should the question really receive that many downvotes? If it is a dupe, we can close it.

Skillmon

@JasperHabicht I didn't downvote, but the person is exploiting the system and actively tries to circumvent account suspension. Mass-downvoting is the fastest path for the community to make the post go away.

(but now I did downvote)

Jasper Habicht

@Skillmon I see, well I did not follow the discussion and only saw a question in the same context (which I could relate to the same person therefore) every now and then. I just wonder whether some questions aren't maybe really helpful to others, even if this person does not adhere to the rules ...

Because, if yes, I'd vote for keeping these questions, since the value of this site is actually the questions and their answers.

Maybe I should check on meta for this =D

Skillmon

@JasperHabicht some are, but generally, the questions are changed so frequently by edits that they don't make any sense a day later (or all the comments and answers are at least in part invalidated).

Jasper Habicht

@Skillmon Okay, that's a valid point then.

David Carlisle

@JasperHabicht If you comment or answer, it just encourages him, he's suspended for a year so just opening an account means he's in violation of the site rules and the account will get closed and the post deleted shortly, he will run through several accounts a day.

Jasper Habicht

5:57 PM

@DavidCarlisle Okay. Is there any hint I can make use of to identify this person? Maybe the name of some command they use?

@DavidCarlisle I'll try to keep that in mind then.

David Carlisle

@JasperHabicht name of commands same question with minor edits multiple times with different accounts, rude responses to many comments....

Jasper Habicht

@DavidCarlisle Rude responses: Just got that =D

Skillmon

@JasperHabicht not to incriminate every French, but French usage of ! and ? (so with a space in front of it)

@JasperHabicht also frequent edits to the question (usually at least 2 or 3 before the question gets deleted, if the question stays open for long 5 or 6 might get reached)

Jasper Habicht

@Skillmon Noted. I guess I'll just give these questions a wide berth in future (is this really how you say in English).

samcarter

@JasperHabicht The problem is that previous versions of their questions get deleted when SE suspends their sock accounts, which means the new versions can't be closed as dupe

Jasper Habicht

6:07 PM

@samcarter Ay, that's another valid argument ... Thanks guys! I really wasn't much involved in this up to now, so I just wondered ... =)

cfr

6:20 PM

@DavidCarlisle But why set up CM typewriter that way? I could understand it if the CM text fonts all used a standard encoding, but they don't.

@barbarabeeton What's the use for open/close in verbatim contexts? Maybe that's what I don't get.

barbara beeton

6:35 PM

@cfr -- There are actual quotes within verbatim. On p.391 there are a few (somewhat trivial) examples showing how to set up hanging punctuation. Yes, these could be accomplished in some other way, but believe me, it's a real pain. (I had to do something similar for my TUG'24 talk to get accurate input instructions in slides when verbatim didn't behave.)

Skillmon

7:00 PM

@JasperHabicht how should I know, I'm German :P

Alan Munn

Is there any way to get a pfg for loop to use a leading zeros sequence? e.g. 001,...,090

Jasper Habicht

@Skillmon It was more of a rhetorical question anyways ... =)

@AlanMunn What would the use case be? Why not loop over 1,...,90 and add the zeroes later?

Alan Munn

@JasperHabicht Inserting graphics that with filenames like that.

Jasper Habicht

@AlanMunn I'd still add the zeroes later. tex.stackexchange.com/a/76168/47927 could this work?

Skillmon

@AlanMunn \prg_replicate:nn { 3 - \tl_count:n { #1 } } { 0 } #1 with #1 being the current loop iteration.

David Carlisle

7:11 PM

@cfr in a 7-bit encoding ` and ‘ aren't really separate characters so it's just a choice of the glyph shape not that a different character is being used. It's just that the back tick is curilier than you want

@JasperHabicht yes, shipping term, but also a general idiom

Skillmon

@JasperHabicht just remember, if in doubt the user is someone else. We don't want to turn down valid new users.

Jasper Habicht

@Skillmon That's why I'd just ignore such questions and leave downvoting for those who have better identification skills =)

Skillmon

@JasperHabicht I'd even go a step further, if in doubt, I'd comment and maybe even answer (or ask in chat what others think).

Jasper Habicht

@Skillmon It seems that the questions are not in my typical answer range, so I think ... I'll stick to the above strategy

Skillmon

@JasperHabicht :) fine by me.

David Carlisle

7:21 PM

@Skillmon if in doubt put a comment why another user name a real new user will ask what you mean, the regular user will probably insert a rude comment into the question

5

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle :D

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle quack

David Carlisle

7:39 PM

@PauloCereda dinner

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Paulo Cereda

8:52 PM

9

Transcript for

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends